I've read a lot of the posts here praising CDG. I've also heard good things about Wells Fargo's Secure Suite. Can anyone give a direct comparison between the two for processing a mix of online and phone orders? I'd also be interested in comments from those who've used or seriously considered both.

It would be for a very small company, with mostly phone orders but some online, too. (Just starting with merchant account so hopefully straight online sales will increase. Now using PayPal.) I'm not sure if CDG includes the fraud checking that WF Secure Suite does, or if they require outside services (like Fraudgate). Also curious how much difference there really is in the support end for new users. And how much assistance was given for integrating whatever's necessary with the website (OsCommerce in this case).

I'm new to this, so plz bear with me if I'm asking the wrong questions! So much to learn ...

Welcome to the forums zGreen.

Well Fargo has a partnerhsip with Dirst Data to help process credit Cards. First data is the largest CC procesor - they also own smaller companies like Telecheck & Western Union.

Authorizenet.com - one of the gateways CDG uses has it's own Fraud Protection suite as well. I have never used Wells Fargo personally, so not too sure how their customer support is.

Most companies also provide a free virtual terminal to process the telephone orders. You just sign on - take the approproate information, and within a few seconds, you can tell your customer if their charge was appoved or declined

To add/clarify to what Corey has mentioned above, we (CDG) also provide some other built-in fraud protection technologies for all of our merchants regardless of what gateway is being used... beyond that provided by the optional services such as the Fraud Detection Suite from Authorize.Net.

One example is FraudGate.com - which we are now providing at no monthly cost to all of our merchants. This type of technology has helped many of our merchants reduce their chargebacks from fraud by up to 80% or more. I highly recommend their service to anyone doing online order processing.

FraudGate performs an IP/GEO/BIN match result as well as several other checks plus it can do an automated verification call to validate that the # provided by the customer is really theirs.

We also have developed our own negative database of chargebacks along with some other proprietary fraud screening technologies which will be included with our merchant accounts in the near future.

These technologies will not only provide fraud scrubbing but also aid merchants in ensuring that they maintain compliance with the Visa/MasterCard chargeback monitoring guidelines and notify them in advance if they are approaching any such thresholds.

Lastly, our risk team is available to assist with reviewing any orders that our merchants find to be questionable on a true one-to-one basis. This is a very unique and personalized aspect of our service that I'm not aware of any other processor offering.

MODS: if anything in my post here is inappropriate, please edit or remove. I am trying to accurately respond to the question asked about our fraud scrubbing capabilities while also keeping within the forum TOS here. Thanks!

Thanks Corey and CDG for the replies. And the welcome! I appreciate the details on CDG fraud protection. How about the other services and features of CDG compared to WF?

I've been trying to wrap my head around the similarities and differences but am not getting a clear picture. Does CDG NOT offer any of these features/services? Are the prices substantially different? (If this is not appropriate for the forums I'll edit my post but sure hope it's OK.)

WF Secure Source Suite:
> Includes exclusive Wells Fargo RiskAssessor® fraud detection and prevention system, using extensive data records and 150 decision rules to screen for fraud while approving, on average, 96% of online purchasers. Operates real-time which enables you to accept more valid orders while also mitigating fraud-related losses.
> Includes an Authorize.Net™ payment gateway.
> Delivers sales proceeds as soon as two business days with a WF bus checking account.
> Automated Recurring Billing.
> Includes Visa, MC, AMEX, Discover, and electronic checks. Take orders by fax, phone, personal digital assistant or paper and then process payments via the Internet.
>Online Reports updated daily.
>Customer Service 7 days a week from 6 am — 6 pm PST.

Fees:
Set-Up $149.00
Monthly Fee $35.00
Statement Fee Included
Payment Gateway Fee Included
Online Reporting Included

Per Transaction
Discount Rt — Visa®, MasterCard®, Discover® 2.4%
— American Express® 3.25%
WF RiskAssessor® Enhanced Fraud Screen Fee $0.10
Per-Authorization Fee $0.30
Address Verification Fee Included
Addit'l Fraud Screen Fee for Int'l CC Transactions 1.00%

Daily Batch Settlement Fee $0.30
Chargeback Fee $15.00

Terms / Rules
Min Hold Period for Credit Card 2 bus days
Max Monthly Sales Limit $20k per month
Max Transaction Limit $2,000 per order

Termination Fee Applies – See Internet Merchant Agreement

Electronic Checks
Discount Rate 0.50%
Per Transaction Fee $0.75

Returned Fee (for NSF or Stopped Payment) $15.00
E Check Guarantee Period 4 bus days
Max Monthly Sales limit $5,000 per month
Max Trans'n limit $200 per order

Any Wells Fargo users out there who can also comment?

I'd welcome the opportunity to give you a specific comparison between our WHT-specific program and the Wells Fargo proposal that you've outlined above... but I am concerned that I would be violating the forum TOS by doing so.

But... I'll ask a moderator here just to verify and if they give it the blessing, I'll be happy to give you a comparison. :)

Thanks, CDG. I wasn't sure if I was asking for too many product-specific details or not. I understand if it's not forum-friendly so maybe it would be better by pm. If it is OK with the forum gods, though, some others here might also appreciate the comparison.

Just one thing to look closely at Wells Fargo. I had one person to contact me once to ask me a few questions about it. They told me it was a three year contract - which I told them was way too long. Sure it pretty much guaranteed your rate for that amount of time, but still.

Also make sure they have no exclusivity agreement. Meaning that if you did sign up for Well Fargo, you could sign up with another processor as well if needed. A lot of people do this just in case something happens. Your limit ($20K a month) - might be a problem. Some sign up for another account to push a few transactions thru so as not to meet that limit. If there is an exclusivity agreement, you cannot do this.

Corey brings up a good point.

Three years is definitely a very long time and you can be sure that there is a financial cost involved if you switch or cancel prior to that point - in most cases.

Thanks - you guys have both been very helpful. I agree that 3 yrs is a long time online. They do have a cancellation fee, too.

The WF person I spoke with this morn wasn't sure about contract exclusivity or about the percentage of transactions billed at the qualified rate. He also suggested that AVF alone was adequate fraud protection for our type of business (low volume, niche software and hardware sales) so we should use their Internet Merchant Acct instead of Secure Suite. I kinda like the extra fraud protection myself. :)

The WF person kept referring me to Authorize.net for answers to detailed questions. Maybe not a big deal to some, but I do like how CDG can handle questions about the merchant acct, the paymt gateway, and the shopping cart.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. And thanks for the details by pm, CDG.

Thanks for the nice words, zGreen. :)

That is one problem that I have noticed about a few processors with the gateways. They always refer to one another - never wanting to take responsibility for anything. CDG though seems to answer the question or get the answer at least without referring over.

Those fee's are rather high with Wells Fargo, especially if you're not doing a whole lot of volume are don't have an established business to be able to get into a long term contract.

Not that it's worth much as second hand info, but my brother does over a million a year through Wells Fargo from online sales and the mere mention of them brings up enough cursing about their support that I've ended up staying away from them as well.

Unless you already have a well established account with them and are happy with them, there's not much stopping you from just getting a business checking account with a bank you like, and getting your merchant services from another company more oriented towards your business and industry.

Personalized service & knowledgeable support is key with any business - but even more so with financial services. I'd agree 110% on that.

The other problem that I've seen happen time and time again when an Internet merchant signs up with a conventional bank is that the bank and its staff have very minimal understanding of e-commerce, payment gateways and how online transactions work.

The end result is that the buck is constantly passed and the fingers are pointed from one vendor to another - while the merchant grows increasingly frustrated and lacking of any answers or resolution.

It isn't that banks are intentional "bad" at this kind of thing. It is just that Internet/e-commerce isn't their specialty. A bank is in business primarily to make loans & investments --- that is what they are good at.

Merchant processors are in the business to acquire and process credit card transactions --- that is what they are good at. Plus, the level of technological adeptness and innovation with an ISO/MSP can often be far greater than that of a bank and they can generally move and adapt a lot faster to changing market conditions and merchant needs.

Originally posted by cdgcommerce
Corey brings up a good point.

Three years is definitely a very long time and you can be sure that there is a financial cost involved if you switch or cancel prior to that point - in most cases.

I'm using WF for the banking account end of things, but for reasons already mentioned above (they're not up to snuff in the MSP end of things) I am nearly going with CDGCommerce, mostly because of all the great things I see over and over again in these boards.

But then I was reading over the Merchant Agreement that is attached to the back of the CDG application and I'm a little concerned by section 13. "Term and Termination", and it seems especially odd considering that quote above from CDGCommerce.

In section 13.A of the Agreement it reads (by the way, anyone can get a hold of this, so I don't think I'm breaking any rules here):

"The Agreement will remain in effect for a period of 3 years ("Initial Term") and will renew for successive 2 year terms ("Renewal Term") unless terminated as set for below."
yadda yadda.

And then a little ways down in section 13.C.iv ("Early Termination") it reads as follows:

"If you terminate this Agreement before the end of the Initial or any Renewal Term, you will immediately pay PROCESSOR as liquidated damages, an early termination fee equal to the greater of $250, or $35 multiplied by the number of months remaining in the then-current term, in addition to all other amounts you owe. You agree that the early termination fee is not a penalty, but rather is reasonable in light of the financial harm caused by your early termination."

My communication with CDGCommerce has been very good up to this point, but I'm still waiting to here about this latest revelation, as it were. In an initial email from CDG, I was quoted the following...

"RISK FREE – No Early Termination/Cancellation Fees."

Now I'm no lawyer, but I do know that the Agreement is a lot more legally binding than the sales email, so how might this be explained?

I'm glad to see here in the thread, and even from a CDG rep that 3 years is too long, but there's apparently a discrepency with what's being said and what is actually the case in writing. I especially don't like that last sentence in section 13.C.iv. Give me a break; a judge would laugh at me for signing any contract that stated such a thing ("financial harm" my ***). If I do have to commit to a 3-year Term and face such early termination penalties (and it would be a penalty despite that ludicrous last sentence in section 13.C.iv), then I will have to seriously reconsider CDG services.

To clarify on your question, there is absolutely no early termination fee with a CDGcommerce merchant account - period.

Thus, whether a merchant cancels service after 30 days or 30 months or 30 years - there is no cancellation cost of any kind.

While the provision for a termination fee is in the merchant agreement, this term is waived by default on every application and this is specifically notated on the bottom of page 3 on the merchant agreement.

Please let me know if I can help clarify further on anything. Thanks!

Thank you for responding. I made the same inquiry to your new accounts office a couple days ago and still have not heard back. I was getting concerned.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting in the least that there's fishy business going on, it's just a legitimate inquiry about a curious situation. Like I indicated before, I've seen nothing but good things about CDG in these boards, and that's why I approached you guys first.

I had already noticed the line you indicate on page three, but we have all been trained to read the fine print, and so...

I may be a fool for doing so, but I'm taking your word for it over the contract. (Judge would laugh at me for that too.) I look forward to doing business with CDG.

EDIT: I'll follow up with your office and indicate this thread as closure to my inquiry.

No worries. :) It is always good to ask questions and confirm things in advance.

We also look forward to doing business with you as well, thanks!