Ok, we have been a reseller for VO since April of last year. It has come time for us to move on up to a beast of a dedicated server. Now the server itself, is not hosted in by VO. We were offered an unbeatable price elsewhere, in a great NOC. My problem is this: We are moving our clients manually ( we do not have a problem with that at all ) and we encountered a problem when attempting to zip up our clients mailing lists. We could not do it properly because of file permission. We contacted VO and asked if there was something they could do. I would assume a simple change of file permissions would do? Instead, they said they would have to zip up the files themselves and charge us $65 per hour to do so. Now my question is, do you think its fair to charge us for accessing our own clients data? We never once asked for there help in moving our clients, in fact we told them we are more than happy to do this all on our own. However, I really don't think its fair to charge $65 per hour just the change the permissions on 2 files. Am I crazy?

Out of respect I think VO should do it for free. It takes about 5 minutes to just gzip the files and download them from the new server you got. Even though it takes 5 minutes they will stil charge you $65, but that's just how they work, even if it's not we don't think it's fair. ;)

Possibly you could open a support ticket over there and ask them to change the permissions.

Then move the site(s) yourself.

I believe they can justify the charge due to the responsibility is heightened due to being responsible of which data is packed up and ready to go. You are paying not only for them to do it, but for them to be liable after you move. Its a small amount to pay and would glady pay it if there were a lot of sites to move.

I think they are not only justified for these reasons, but are giving you a deal. Its not as snippy quick and easy as Palm states. Verification procedures of data, confirmation of file sized complicated by the total amount of site and you have at least an hours worth of responsible data management.

May take 5 minutes for one site, and download it, but it takes into no problems along the way.

VO have been good to us the time that we have been with them so I dont really want to give them a bad rap. We actuall asked for the permissions changed on the files that we require. We did not want anything else done. I understand this is what we should be doing. I asked if they were joking about the fee, the reply was:
"Normally resellers do not need this type of thing done, therefore, it is deemed to be outside of our normal technical support range. We bill $65 per hour for this type of support and that is that.
Timothy"

Sounds almost vidictive doesnt it? Haze, have you resolved this?
Are you still trying to change your permissions so you can download your files?

Surely this company can simple change the permissions cant they?

I am going to search their forums for this type of occurence, this sounds sort of out of the norm if you have actually asked through their normal support system.

Possibly there is some other discussion before this note you left which would dictate the obvioous shortness your post describes from them.

I am curious about something. If you have not posted on their own support forum, why are you posting here about a support issue?

It was actually through their support ticketing system. It is out of the ordinary VO considering how they usually deal with these sorts of issues to the best they can. Saying this I have never left their service before =). I may have got a couple of people on a bad day, you never know. The only other thing previously mentioned was the problem at hand.

Which might help if you posted on their support forums.

I have read very good posts about VO, havent noticed egotism, or rude posts (Hope someone cant correct me bout them) but I believe you did get someone on a bad day and they need another try at your situation.

When you do get your files changed this is what you do

Log into SSH and execute these commands:

cd /home/username
tar -czvf backup.tar.gz www/ (or any directory you with to tar up)
mv backup.tar.gz www/ (places it in a directory accessible from the web)

Log into our server and execute these commands:

cd /home/username
wget http://www.yourolddomain.com/backup.tar.gz
tar -xzvf backup.tar.gz

Thats it

Ok course its system and path specific but should work ok.

Hi!
I feel that what they said is justified. Please note that this is just my feeling.
The reason for it is -
1) They have to have a person for such works there. Now not everyone would be asking for these kinds of work everyday. Let's say this person salary is X and the per hours which he does is say 40 per week. He may not be utilised full for this but still the NOC has to keep him. So they have to get the money from extra works like this.
2) There could be cases where the problem is beyond chown. They have to look into that too.. Many times customers just say that it is two steps. But suppose it is messed up the argument is "you had to have better people who know the work. Charge me higher but I can at no cost loose clients because of your inexperience. "

Also another good thing I feel is that they are not forcing you to take this service. Sometimes a group may force you to use there service and make things bad. I hate that. But I felt it was genuine...

Anyway , this is just my feeling and I know everybody has their own opinion. But from what I have seen so far these guys seem to be nice people.

Have a great day :)

regards
amar

I knew this post would come up here.


First off I would like to clear a few things up we are not being vindictive cutomers come and go everyday but this cutomer has been getting free support on this move up till now. And Now it is starting to take our techs time away from customer issues that we do fully support.

We have moved many sites and the services he is asking for we do charge for even if the customer is moving in or out.

Ok Paul,

When ya gonna clear it up.

This post specifically addresses a need for permission changes.

Change the permissions, then give them the commands to do the rest, or refer them to your FAQ's, you do have those yes?

That might, clear things up right quick.

Edit: I am hearing shortness from that support ticket, and your blaza attitude about customer coming and going everyday isnt bustin my chads.

This person has a reason to post here, clear up this customers issue by taking care of things.

A wee bit of attitude in your post is not going to help.

Whats to clear up? The customer ticket has been responded to and we are waiting on him to respond back.


Just because you lease a car dont mean they are going to service it every 3000 miles for free, if this was the case they would go broke in no time, same thing in this case.

Permissions and Tar?

This is what it needs right, instead of the analogy that seems to be just smoke because they certainly dont need it, and I know I dont need it. Just help your customer.

If it is just permissions and a tar, its a quick fix boom, thread closed.

If there is something more to be done than just those two things then just say POPCORN

If not, just wrap it up and make your customer happy.

Why it sounds like, because the customer is leaving, the host wants to grasp the final chance to make money out of the customer?

The support ticket has been replies, but the customer asked others whether it's fair to charge $65 dollars.

Paul, you said you knew this post would come up here, I think that means you knew the customer will not be happy about this charge, right? If you are going to do everything normally, why do you want to check whether your customer post a question here?

By the way, you have time to reply here, why not take the time to change the permissions?! It seems it takes about 5 minutes to finish it.

Thats what I am asking myself.

If those are the only two issues this customer needs then it can be done anywhere in the world with the right login.

Just do the right thing if you havent, and have a great day, and thank the customer for being a customer in the first place.

Dont make it any harder to leave than it has to, its complex enough for them.

I don't see what the problem is here. VO is completely in the right for charging for such a service. It does not matter how simple the task at hand is. If it's outside of what they would consider to be standard support for their clients, they should charge for it.

-Dan

Yes I know make it hard for them to leave, and charge em because they dont know what to do.

<<removed: off topic>>

I suppose support is relative.

If your customer is confused, and just wants to be able to do something, and cannot understand why it costs so much, fair practice and common decency should dictacte the norm (Even in most cases it doesnt) still, people deserve to be treated fairly. If they are being gouged for a very simple function during a time when they are obviously under enough stress the last thing you want to do is end a ticket like this.

"Normally resellers do not need this type of thing done, therefore, it is deemed to be outside of our normal technical support range. We bill $65 per hour for this type of support and that is that.

Normally resellers are relying on you to take the burden off them. If that burden is so simple as to just tar and chmod then its absurd. That I know this information, no matter what Paul has said, his carefree attitude about his customers in his comments speak mounds.

There was a lot in what he said, and as a savy customer I can read a lot into it, of course my opnion but its served me very well so far.

As Hazed and Paul have decided to not continue to post it might be a good idea to close the thread. Looks resolved here. What do you think?

We could not do it properly because of file permission. We contacted VO and asked if there was something they could do. I would assume a simple change of file permissions would do?

Welcome to the club. This is primarily a problem with the way their servers are configured. They do not have "suExec" on their servers and a lot of scripts end up creating nobody files with 550 permissions and it is a big problem. I have had this problem myself (file permissions) with them, and it took me about 8 tickets to find out what the problem was and if there was any solution. Their tech kept blaming it on our scripts. When I finally asked if this was a known problem, he said yes but most scripts work well "if they do not need constant intervention". He only knows what heck he means by "constant intervention". I am having problems with all those files that I can not open up and edit.

Anyway, the issue here is that so much has been made about ventures online in these forums "as if" they are the ultimate along with a couple of other hosts like MC Host, and most of these are posts by a few resellers of theirs frequenting these forums on a regular basis.

In my opinion, they are not as good as they are made out to be, they probably were better in the early days "when they were still hungry and a few happy customers spread the good word". Answering a support ticket quickly in itself does not help if the issue can not be solved (or at least there is no courtesy to answer properly) and if they keep blaming the problem on the scripts. 8 tickets for a simple answer is not great support.

but this cutomer has been getting free support on this move up till now.

Paul, what do you mean by "free support"? Have you been hosting this reseller for free? If not - it is not free, it is paid for. May be you are saying that now that he is moving, you should not support him anymore?

I am by no means standing up for this company, since I know little about them. I am not here to judge how other companies handle their business. I am only pointing out that they have every right to charge extra for this type of support, if it is not considered to be standard within their TOS.

-Dan

Gurudev I have ran into that problem and have a script somewhere they will remove those nobody files from a web page. Let me see if I can find it.

Can you send me an e-mail? Ill bounce it to you

Can I reach you through programmingbids?

Up until this point I have not heard anything negative at all about VO. This is the first time.

Disregarding whether this charge is fair or not, I am a bit surprise by the bahavior and attitude of VO, this not what I expected. If this is some mediocre hosts, I won't mind.

In my opinion, VO is losing more than $65 of reputation, just by having this thread around.

Peter

Ckpeter, while on the surface it may look like that but it is quite possible that hazed was a pain in the ass.

Or? VO's rep speaks for itself, I am willing to let them slide since hazed has decided to go absent.

I think they were sick of hazed, sorry hazed, maybe YOU will clarify but I really dont think VO is tarnished if you take everything in.

Originally posted by ckpeter


In my opinion, VO is losing more than $65 of reputation, just by having this thread around.

Peter

I agree with you, Peter.

Smauel,

Actually, I don't want those files removed but I have a need to edit some of those files manually and that is a huge problem. I found a script called nobody.cgi and it does not seem to work. I do not see your email address in the profile and if you have something you can email it to me by clicking on my email in the profile and that will be appreciated.

In any case, I have been looking to move out and hence I have not created a new site (for webhosting bids) that I have been waiting to publish nor have I resold any new accounts, once I found out the problems and their attitude.

Up until this point I have not heard anything negative at all about VO. This is the first time.

That is because when most people are giving them high marks, if someone says something negative though it is true, people will come here and say that you are bad mouthing them because you are involved with another host or something to that nature and making any such negative comments does bode well. On the contarary, now there will be poeple who will say that some of us are jumping on the bandwagon now.

But just read pauls threads above, and they tell you a lot.

Says I cant e-mail ya. Let me turn pm's on and try that

This issue is being resloved off the forum where it should take place.


I do not see anything wrong with the posts I have made we do charge for some types of support as any host would, we try hard to make every customer happy sometimes we fail we are not perfect by no means or do we claim to be.

Seeing as this thread seems to want to continue on I will attempt to explain it as best as humanly possible.

Irregardless of the fact if a customer is leaving or not does not play into this one bit.

Up until a few months ago we were very lax on what we charged for support, but as we grew and continue to grow its near impossible to keep doing people favors or free support and maintain the higher quality technicians that I have on my staff. It does not really matter what the client is asking us to do, they could be asking us to compile in an extra module for php just as easy as this one is asking for files which resellers and clients alike do not access. In short if its not within our standard support or if its something that requires us to go in and perform the work without just giving the client a suggestion or help on their particular problem then it is chargeable. Its company policy, no more no less. Also, its not a full $65, the tech time is billed in 1/2 hour increments, which I’m fairly certain was explained to him, if not I will reprimand that technician for not clearly stating that.


Also, I'm sure hazed would resent the fact that you implied he was a pain in the ass.. (Which of course he wasn't and has not been) however this is just a simple matter of policy. In the past we just gave away way 2 much free tech support for external or non supported items and it taxed our support staff a good deal in trying to keep up with it. Its just a matter of keeping everything running smoothly.

Originally posted by DanielP
Seeing as this thread seems to want to continue on I will attempt to explain it as best as humanly possible.

Irregardless of the fact if a customer is leaving or not does not play into this one bit.

Up until a few months ago we were very lax on what we charged for support, but as we grew and continue to grow its near impossible to keep doing people favors or free support and maintain the higher quality technicians that I have on my staff. It does not really matter what the client is asking us to do, they could be asking us to compile in an extra module for php just as easy as this one is asking for files which resellers and clients alike do not access. In short if its not within our standard support or if its something that requires us to go in and perform the work without just giving the client a suggestion or help on their particular problem then it is chargeable. Its company policy, no more no less. Also, its not a full $65, the tech time is billed in 1/2 hour increments, which I’m fairly certain was explained to him, if not I will reprimand that technician for not clearly stating that.


Also, I'm sure hazed would resent the fact that you implied he was a pain in the ass.. (Which of course he wasn't and has not been) however this is just a simple matter of policy. In the past we just gave away way 2 much free tech support for external or non supported items and it taxed our support staff a good deal in trying to keep up with it. Its just a matter of keeping everything running smoothly.

Daniel I have not talked to you since 1999 how the hell have you been!

The comment about hazed being a pain in the ass was speculation, not an accusation. And Paul you sounded gruff, and thats been echoed a couple times by others.

Now back to Daniel! Man I ran into Chicoweb about a year ago when I ran power band locally. Really happy you got your dream going. I knew there was a reason I trusted VO LOL

How is Genady and Family?

Daniel, good concluding post! Pretty much neutralized any negativity of this thread.

A mod should close this thread now, as there isn't any more to this thread.

Peter

Hey Sam :)

Give me a shout on ICQ (5995550) don't wanna throw the topic off :)

This thread has been re-opened on Haze's request.

Originally posted by Paul L.
I knew this post would come up here.


First off I would like to clear a few things up we are not being vindictive cutomers come and go everyday but this cutomer has been getting free support on this move up till now. And Now it is starting to take our techs time away from customer issues that we do fully support.

We have moved many sites and the services he is asking for we do charge for even if the customer is moving in or out.

The only support we got where a couple of questions answered. I have been offered support in moving out site and have denied it. I do not appreciate your post as it makes it sound like you have moved many of our users and the only thing you have done is answer a couple of quick answers in the help desk. Again, I was offered support in moving my users, but Denied it as I am moving away from VO and I felt that I would be able to do it on my own. I never in my wildest imagination would have ever thought you would charge me to access 2 small files. I have discussed this matter with my clients, and we have decided to move on without our mailing lists. VO has made a generous offer to resolve this situation but can not accept. Especially if it is going cost so much in tech time.

We have had nothing but great service and support from VO. I think however, that if there resellers notice that there are certain charges for certain procedures such as this, they may not want to offer it to there customers. Especially if they ever plan on moving up, unless of course they have not problem with selling out $65 for a simple change of file permissions for 2 files.

Thread closed on request of original poster.