Hi everyone,

Well I got a prospect that issued the following questions

1. How long have you been in the business of reselling windows hosting?
2. Are you incorporated, or or you a sole proprietorship?
3. Where are you based? (US, Australia, Canada, etc..)
4. How many full-time employees do you have? Part-time?
5. Do you only offer reseller packages, or do you also still offer
shared/virtual hosting to non-resellers? (In other words, will I be
competing against you for customers?)
6. o you resell for someone else, or do you own/lease your own servers?
7. How many servers do you own/lease?
8. What data center(s) do you use?
9. Does your reseller pkg include my own nameservers? (ns1.mydomain.com
& ns2.mydomain.com) How much extra is it for this
service?
10. Can I anonymously resell your reseller plan?
11. Can you provide at least 3 websites of people who are reselling your
services?
12. Do you have a demo account so I can see the features of your
reseller account before officially signing up?

I offered to answer all but 4 questions #2, 4, 7, 8

I would answer those 4 questions only on the terms of an NDA and only with a USA resident citizen where I can get enforcement.

also all I know of this prospect is that they are a reseller.

I would like to state why most parties should not answer them. For me, this is common business sense and should be used by many others.

question #2

2. Are you incorporated, or or you a sole proprietorship?

Personaly this looks to me as if someone want's to know how I am playing the tax structure for my business. SP's, C-corp.'s and S-Corp's and LLC have different rules of taxation plus there is the added benifit of knowing what money's are involved ( you have to file cetain public document yearly plus there is the option of checking the D&B for other notes. Plus if you have other holding this is a great way to track your entire holding structure.

question #4

4. How many full-time employees do you have? Part-time?

Again, looking to see how a business is structured, Why I don't know. but presumming answer #2 is known.( I know the state and location). I can check the databases for average pay scale for the area and calculate the cost overhead of that business. and possible rental that they might pay.

Question #7

7. How many servers do you own/lease?

Again this is a numbers question, I care not to reveal the business structure of my firm. therefor I'm very careful to release information. well if i'm leasing serve then there is this type of cost .....etc. etc.

Question #8

8. What data center(s) do you use?

again this looks like someone is probing for my numbers. trying to figure out
a) to issue me an offer and give me very little wiggle room.
b) competitor looking to see why I price in a specific manner.

qustion number 11

I told the prospect to go to my forum and ask away. I don't give out client information. that goes against my policy. I feel very uncorftable about giving out names. I have the right to do it but i prefer that people use there own free will to answer.

Some of these questions are answered within the forum. that is information that I have publicly disclosed. you want it .. go dig it up. the information was to help other parties that needed a helping hand ( server issues, dns problems ... ) if you gather all the info then yes most of the above questions are answered.

I do spend time and money doing this sort of research to make sure that my pricing is ok. Hell, the top ten hosting companies that participate on theis forum and others, I visit there help wanted pages every day. ( I desire to know where people might be spending money and it might be good to look there also ) Gee why is XYZ looking for lisp guy ... because he might be designing an application that makes something easier ( here is the write up about it: http://www.paulgraham.com/paulgraham/avg.html

I thought that everyone should take a solid look at what they say.

mike

Consumers opinion.

2 I would understand although if you are incorporated doesnt it have to be added to you're name ( inc, llc etc )

4 & 7 would mostly be asked my consumers to see how big you're company is, and if a company wont tell you its because they're trying to hide how small they are.

8. I see no reason a company would not want to give this away, If a company would not even tell me what datacenter my server/site would be at I would not trust them to be my webhost.

Note: These are all views from a consumer/web hosting purchaser, some may or may not be my views.

Those all seem to be legitimate questions. If I had not heard much about you as a business and wanted to resell your serives, I would probably ask you more questions.

#2 - He probably wants to know how serious you are with regards to your business, nothing to do with your tax situation? Why should someone worry about how you are paying your taxes?

#4,7 - What's wrong with these questions? I mean, if I want to be your reseller I want to know you have employees and resources to support your customers and when he is reselling, thoretically they are all his customers not yours - he is the first line of contact.

#8 - You don't want to say which network, data center you are using?

#11 - You don't want to give any references?

Unless, you are hiding something there is no reason not to answer those questions. After all, the reseller has to depend upon you as a business to take care of his/her customers.

Now 11 I can understand. Maybe a reseller doesnt want his host advertising him as a reseller. ADEHost may need to get permission from the reseller before the host can say the reseller resells for them, depending on ADEHosts privacy policy.

I go along with Tetraboy.

It actually is quite close to questions I would ask prior to obtaining hosting after having too many bad experiences with other hosters. :rolleyes:

Just take a look at:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31138 :D

we dont waste our time even replying to this type of email. experience for us has been that these peopel never sign up or hardly ever. after you reply they tend to fire back with more questions asking for clarification of your first reply. then they dont purchase.

similar for people asking if we host porn, why waste your time replying 'no' when that answer will chase them off...

dos centavos..

Hy,

theese questions are a waste of time and i can understand ADEHost of he/she does not answer some questions. Here is my interpretation of the question :

2. If you're only a single company some people won't come to you, because they think you're bad. Thats not true, because i know much companys which are only one or two persons, which are much better than big companys with 200+ people.

4. same as two, only other words.

7. Thats company internal informations. Like the number of customers. Some don't want to give this information out, me too, because thats nothing of interest for a customer. Some companys say they have 2000+ Servers. Thats only marketing, because they tell their customers only half of the truth.

8. The customer asks which datacenter and want's to know which bandwith you have. But realize, if you are co-lo in a small datacenter with only say 10 MBit/s to the Internet, and the customer sees that another company says it has 655 MBit/s they think that the bigger number is better. Whats from the point of technican is wrong. You have to look how much bandwith is acutally used and how many is really available, not as backup....

Telling someone something about your customers/resellers is not the good way of making business (IMO). I know it this way that you have 3-5 Customers with which you make an agreement that you can use them as Reference Customers where other customers can ask a contact person if they wish. And every other customer of your company is only a customer, without name for every person outside your company.

Only my € 0.02 (yes now we can say cent, too) :o)

Oliver

This is the third or fourth post I've seen here at WHT where 'hosting companies' are complaining about customers asking questions. The only reason I can see for not answering most of those questions is if you have something to hide, or cannot compete with others.

I must admit that I dont understand the reluctance of vendors to reply to potential customers. Even if the answer simply points to a FAQ or similar on your website.

I see nothing wrong with any of those questions - except #11, because it may violate confidentiality agreements. As a potential customer I want to know if the company I'm going to spend my money with is reputable, reliable and not going to go broke at the drop of a hat. All-in-all I think that is all this person was trying to ask.

Sure they've got them in one compressed email - sure it could have been done better - but they are still valid questions.

I'm based in Australia - so I know nothing, and care nothing about tax rates etc, I'd just want to know if your's is a real company - not some 'back yard job'. There is nothing wrong with small operations - it's just nice to know who/what you are dealing with before you sign up - hence questions about numbers. And as for data-center questions, one of the more important things for me when choosing a hosting company is how many redundant links they have and to whom.

I've emailed about 10 or so people/companies - the majority from links in WHT - and asked similar questions. Not so straight forwardly and not in one email. But the replies I receive (and the speed at those replies come at) govern who I'll spend my money with. Of those 10 companies maybe 5 replied satisfactorily to my initial email, and only about 3 have happily replied to my follow-up emails.

I have bounced back about 6 emails - with 3-4 questions in each mail - to the company that I'll spend my money with. I guess for some people the effort of replying to my emails is not worth it. But for me I know I have all the issues sorted out before I spend $1000's with them. As it is, I'm going to spend about $2500USD - and they've posted an advert here, and replied to 6 emails - is that too much to ask for?? I guess for some people it is - but for me its a fair amount of money and satisfactory answers to my questions is a big issue.

ps. At the same time I always try to find out the information myself before posting an email, and try to personalise the email for the company it is directed to. I'm also not sure about posting all your 'results' of such an email in a form thread - such as the one linked above. I'd regard the replies from vendors as confidential and not make them public.

Originally posted by CJCS
Only my € 0.02 (yes now we can say cent, too) :o)

hehe , I never thought it would happen ;)

Its very difficult to define the proper boundary of information. However, I feel it is perfectly ok for the potential customer to ask any question he wants and that he feels will assist in making an informed decision. At the same time, he must respect the hosts right to answer or not answer as he sees fit. Last, the host must understand that the potential customer sets the ground rules for making the decision and that while he is free to answer or not answer, that may well influence the decision and he must be willing to accept the consequences.

Now, as to which of those I would have answered/not answered.

First, had I known my answers were going to be posted publicly, I would not have answered any. This sort of give and take and the level of questions are items for a private exchange and negotiation.

As to Question #2.

The information is publicly available by checking with the assumed names/fictitious names department of the state. Furthermore, I do not understand the hesitancy in providing the nature of the legal entity. At the same time, I do not see how that would contribute to the decision making process either. Experience, expertise. Those are relevant. Type of legal entity doesn't seem to be very relevant.

As to Question #4.

Obviously this question coupled with number of servers/accounts, etc. might shed some light on whether the committed level of support promised could likely be achieved. However, there are more direct questions that could provide better information. Additionally, if you don't believe the support the host says he can provide, then would you really believe this answer. Normally, I would have answered this with the size of my Technical Support Staff. However, again, having seen the questioner run to post this information and make it available to everyone including my competitors, I would probably be more hesitant now.

As to Question #7

Again, the same issues as #4. I can understand Adehost not wanting to make this information publicly available, particularly since 95% of the public information on size of various hosts is grossly misstated anyway.

As to Question #8

That question I would answer freely. In fact, information on each of my Network Operations Centers is on my site. Also, I would personally let the answer to this influence my decision as there are data centers I would not host in. However, again I don't want all this information broadcast.

In summary, I probably would have answered questions, ADEhost did not on the assumption it was a private exchange. And, having seen it all publicly broadcast, I then would have had serious regrets. At first, I though ADEhost was being unreasonable or too protective. After seeing how this mushroomed, I no longer believe that.

As an aside, in setting up my operations, I have communicated in great detail with many vendors whom I use and others I considered. But this has all been in private and haven't even considered betraying what I felt was confidential information. My problem with the above is not so much the questions, but the way the whole affair was handled.

I do not see any reason not to reply to those sales e-mails. The only thing I could think of is if you: a. want to hide some information b. too lazy to reply.

Provide the potential customer with honest answers, and they will respect you for that - no matter if you are a reseller, or have few people working. Many times they e-mail a couple of hosts with same questions, and compare the replies. I have gotten few sales replying to really long e-mails, and received replies like "Out of a bunch of hosts you were the only one to reply".

If you do not want customers, then I do not know why get into this business at all.

I can not believe the amount of support that I have recieved in PM from other parties.

but some people have explained that maybe I'm to tough on question #2 but otherwise I'm very justified in the rest.

I do use certain cost calculation referencing question #2. but then again whom would not check there competition. But I would answer it in the future, If need be.

Heck there was some information that I found here to be very enlightning: follow the link from websun, where all those replies ended up posted as public information. thanks for the valuable insight to where the marketing effort of some of those firms are. also it might give me a heads up on certain other aspects, or avenues to touch upon. and how to improve my firm.

here is one :

hire labor from other countries this way you can offer true 24/7 in just about all time zones all you need is a good ticket system.
and I found out that asian help desk rates are 20% of the US help desk rates. can give insight to europe : go and use old CIS countries and guess what there is even more that I learned.

just for some note:

most of this information was avalible to the party under a non-disclosure agreement.
and
most of this information could have been answered if they were willing to do some leg work.

Thanks to those that gave encouragement. thanks to those that give me insight. and THANK YOU to those that replied to the message.

mike

It's look that a lot of hosting business are a subsidiary of the Secret Service with classified informations. :D

Why you don't want to tell how many employees you have or your legal figure, did you have something to hide? Why you don't agree to tell in which NOC are locate your server, are your server in your kitchen? :eek:

No ok and then tell to your customer that your server are colocated with Verio.

I thing that it is normal for a customer to ask those questions and I totally agree with Bogdan, maybe the only problem is with question 11 you will need to have the authorization of your reseller before disclosing their names.

Just my ¢.02 (That's not Euro or Dollar)

:stickout

Originally posted by WebSun

No ok and then tell to your customer that your server are colocated with Verio.


that would be a lie, that's no good. I'd rather have an honest relation with a client. To answer the above question: our bandwidth is provided by Verio. so by telling the prospect that we are at Verio's co-lo would be an invitation to a a problem ( a lie ).

Mike

ADEhost

I dont tell you to say to your customer that you are with Verio if it's note true, but your IP 209.168.123.16 belong to Verio and on a tracerout the last network info is from Verio.

Also I dont understand why you are talking like a US company when your domain info locate you in Pakistan:

Asher Saeed
Acenet DreamForge Enterprises #1, F-40, Block 7 Kehkashan, Clifton. Karachi, Sindh 75600 Pakistan
Registrar: Go Daddy Software (http://registrar.godaddy.com) Domain Name: ADEHOST.COM
Created on: 09-Sep-01
Expires on: 09-Sep-02
Last Updated on: 05-Nov-01
Administrative Contact: Saeed, Asher asher@acenet-enterprises.net Acenet DreamForge Enterprises #1, F-40, Block 7 Kehkashan, Clifton. Karachi, Sindh 75600 Pakistan 5872924 Fax -- 5872924

Maybe that's the reason why you dont want to give some informations to your prospect...:confused:

edit for misspelling

Originally posted by WebSun
ADEhost

I dont tell you to say to your customer that you are with Verio if it's note true, but your IP 209.168.123.16 belong to Verio and on a tracerout the last network info is from Verio.
Also I dont understand why you are talking like a US company when your domain info locate you in Pakistan:
Maybe that's the reason why you dont want to give some informations to your prospect...:confused:

edit for misspelling

correct, asher was bought out by me. 12/01
The name changes and holding company information issue has been addressed just waiting for the dam system to update ( how long does godaddy take )

mike.

Well, the individual who is sending out these inquiries is trying to find a decent Windows reseller that meets his requirements, and many other people (including myself) are following the results of his in-depth research very closely to aid in our decision-making processes.

Please, all of you who are PMing Mike of ADEhost with your support for his crusade against consumers, please post here so we can cross you off our list of potential vendors as well. It makes the decision-making process a little bit easier that way.

If you are so shady that you cannot inform a potential customer (who is doing more than just paying a monthly fee to you, his image to HIS clients is reflected by the performance and reliability of your entity, after all--so we have more to lose than our monthly fees if you turn out to provide a crappy product!) about such simple things as how long you've been in business and how big you are...what other things are you going to hide from us?

Keep up the good work with your inquiries, electric; there are a lot of us who will benefit from your research! :)

Well, it seems I started off a firestorm with my questions.. doesn't it?

First, I want to explain why I asked these questions.

I asked, because if I pick your company to resell with.. then MY reputation is at stake.

Specifically:

1. You are a legitimate company that isn't based in your mothers basement. Generally, any company that has gone through the process of incorporation (costs, legal work, etc..) will (at the very least) understand the legal ramifications of fudiciary duty.

2. That you aren't just reselling someone elses reseller program.

3. The number of servers tells me how serious you are. If you have 1 server.. this bascially means you are either new at the game, or something else.

4. The NOC that you use is important, because some are better than others.

5. The type (or "feel") of the reponse says a lot about how you do business. If I get little one word answers, this tells me you don't have time for customers and aren't interested in a business RELATIONSHIP. (Remember that my business reputation and service will be based on your own!)

Etc. etc.. basically, nothing in those questions is anything I couldn't find out with a bit of digging around anyway. What I was trying to do is gauge whether you are a legit business on whom I want to stake my own business.

So.... take it as you will, but all you reseller people need to know that the avg idiot who wants to set up a hosting company based on your services is getting a LOT smarter. Be prepared for more of this kind of questioning. A simple FAQ or something would go a long way to making your company stand out.

It has been mentioned that NOT responding to these kinds of questions means you are either hiding something or a mom/pop shop.

So.. if you don't like being asked questions about your business... then get out of the business now before you loose your business.

Cheers!

As a side note, you will all be interested to know that I have been emailed, via private email and PM by over 100 people asking me about the responses and what I think about these companies. I got so tired of replying that I posted the reponses as a thread mentioned above.

So take note... your responses are being spread around. If you have nothing to hide, then your potential customers will be interested. If you hide.. your potential customers will go somewhere else.

Now.. specifically to adehost.com:

Due to the fact that you are obviously unwilling to be open and honest about your business, I have no intention of ever using your company as a reseller. I understand you are "changing" things after your purchase, but my issue is with your fundamental attitude towards operating your business.

If you want to be in partnership.. (because that's what you are doing when you sell packages to resellers who stake their own business on yours).. with people, then you need to learn how to be open and honest. It is the nature of the area of the hosting industry in which you have chosen to do business.

If you don't want to be open about your business.. then stick to shared-hosting packages only.

Same goes to anyone else who is offering or planning to offer reseller package. Don't kid yourselve's.. it is a partnership with us.

Don't kid yourselve's.. it is a partnership with us. This comment and the one about it being a business RELATIONSHIP sums my feelings up perfectly, 110%.

It's encouraging to hear that there are so many of us that are closely monitoring the results of your quest, electric. I look at it as a "coming of age" for resellers; the ones who do the research and base their decisions not on price alone but on other, more important factors that will effect the BUSINESS side of things (rather than just the technical aspect)--are the resellers who are much more likely to be around in the years to come and serve their customers appropriately.

This benefits all of us, as the fewer screwups that are running around tarnishing the industry for the rest of us, the better! :)

Originally posted by hurtdidit
This comment and the one about it being a business RELATIONSHIP sums my feelings up perfectly, 110%.


Anything less would really just be an affiliate program.

Just one quick question for Electric. Now that you have the responses, how do you know which ones to believe?

Of course, no web host has ever exaggerated....

No host has ever pretended to have more servers than he does...

No host has ever said he owned when he leased...

No host has ever claimed to have more clients than he does...(including the one down the road from me with 100,000 customers, but space that would not possible hold more than 50 servers. Must be getting 2000 customers on a server...

I admire your effort to gather information. Just warn you that some of the information you got doesn't seem to make sense and that although maybe none of these did, web hosts have been known to exaggerate. Compare numbers of servers to number of employees, etc.

Good luck with whomever you choose.

I think that it isn't wrong or bad for people to ask any question they want, but at the same time, in no way should you expect that everyone will answer any and every question you ask. What you decide after seeing the responses, or lack of responses to certain questions is up to you, but I don't feel there is a huge need to worry about it either way.

I kind of see your point of view. However, a client will look at it a LOT different. I will tell them anything thay ask..

My personal expeirnce is I left a host because they would not tell me where they're servers we're located and tryed to make themselves look bigger than they are. Even though by a simple traceroute and website visit I could tell they we're not as big as they tryed to make themselves out to be.

Did you leave because of the information they withheld? Or was it because they didn't provide the service you expected? Recognizing that they may have been related. However, I suspect that your displeasure arose because of service, which your investigation then revealed they weren't what they claimed to be.

No service was actually pretty good, but how can I trust a webhost that each person that works they're says different things about the company.

interesting thread with justifiable questions to a point however,
if the questions are really that important to be answered why dont you rent a server yourself and stop the games and get it over with already? some of your questions imply you are about to bring serious money to the table, while others expose you as shopping for reseller accounts.

again this is why we dont waste our time with this stuff
if you want to get intimate, talk intimate money
thats a minimum of a server, not a reseller account....

but thats not what this is about , is it...
its sport to you.....



twopence (tuppence for the inquisitive)

miami_g