Ok I have spent a long time working on this and this is what I currently have in my NOC Plans(Which is in a basement)

5 Full Racks that have 5 feet area around them. The racks are steal and are built into the ground. The floor is a marble tile floor. There is a large Air Conditioning system which cools the entire thing.

Here is what I want:

I would like to lift up the racks from the floor by chains and hang them so there 1 foot of space under each rack. Then I would like to have pipes from my AC come under each rack and blow cold air under the racks. I would like to take away the desk with the monitors and keyboards and just get rack mounted monitors and keyboards.

Do you think this is a good idea? Or should I leave it. I hear that creating space under the racks makes them run better.

Can I get some ideas or suggesstions on how to create the perfect NOC.

Can you guys post some specs of your NOC.

THESE ARE PLANS! (FORGOT TO MENTION THAT)

LOL, coool... I would certainly like to start a little NOC in my basement or even in one of the garages. But what about security, backup power, etc?

Have you any other things in your little NOC?

Btw, do you have any servers/clients in your racks?

Alan

Well that is just the physical things that I wanted to change, I do have a security system and there is no way to get into the basement without my password. I have 3 of the 5 racks filled. I have 2 people (friends) who have their servers in my NOC, and have around 280 clients. I am just looking for a way to make it more efficent.

I forgot to answer one of your questions.

Yes, I have a backup generator which runs outside so it doesn't exhuast the hot air into the room. :D

Do you have water pipes in the basement? Have you considered what to do if the pipes burst and your basement starts filling up with water?

Does your security system run off the generator when the power is out? If the generator is outside, can the security system be defeated when its power is being supplied by the unsecured generator?

etc...



(don't laugh at these... I once worked for a multi-billion dollar company that was all proud of their new basement datacenter. Until the brakes failed on a dump truck in the parking lot, and the truck came crashing down into the building and fell through the floor and crashed [literally] the rather significant computer system.)

He is right! These are things that I have thought about, we don't have any pipes in the basement. Also the security system runs off of the generator if the power goes out and the genorator is protected and can not be accessed. (Its not OUTSIDE, I mean that it is outside of the NOC). We don't have a parking lot near by, so I am not worried. :D

If you have your own NOC, why do you host your site with Ventures Online? :eek:

lol... I love it when people dream so much they think it's reality.

yeah, show us some photos!

Why would u run AC from the floor? Cold air sinks.

And what happens if one of those chains suspending the racks fails? Boom? Perhaps a more efficient way to raise them is using a stool-type structure. Just put 4 legs with a top, bottom, and cross beams for more support (and use steel or some other high-strength material, not wood :)). A full rack can be QUITE QUITE heavy. I'm not sure the chain/roof would hold it for long without problems. Just use a raised floor type thing (if cold AC under the racks even helps).

I'd also be interested in pics of the basement NOC. :)

LOL..why would you want to hang racks from chains..that does not make any sense. You said the racks were also built into the ground anyway. Plus if you did lift them up with chains..it would be terriable if one of them snapped - or your house fell down :D

If you want to cool the servers down (although I can't imagine that you have so many in the basement (basements are usually cold anyway..) just buy a good air conditioner and point it towards the racks.

We want pictures of everything...

Also is this not a datacenter and not really a noc?

Consider the electrical perspective of grounding as well. Racks/cabinets built into the ground are therefore grounded. That's a good thing.

We have hot rows and cold rows in our NOC with the server output fans pushing air to the hot row. The hot row has air intakes.

The server intake fan gets cold air from the cold row where there is cold air coming from the vents in the floor.

The result: CPU temp of 22 - 24 C.
A similar config at rackshack (non-RAID vs. RAID here and 1 DIMM vs. 2 DIMMS here) has a mdeian temperature of 29C.

Drew

Originally posted by brandonk
If you have your own NOC, why do you host your site with Ventures Online? :eek:

lol... I love it when people dream so much they think it's reality.

Where the hell did you get that from buddy??? A tracert says he has a server at tera-byte.com...

there's a chance that he hasn't gotten connectivity yet.... bandwidth can cost a pretty penny, so he may be waiting to host his own sites untill his NOC is done...

Originally posted by 311


Where the hell did you get that from buddy??? A tracert says he has a server at tera-byte.com...

Hmm, nothing difficult:

Analysis: 'x213.com' [64119160204.vosn.net] was found in 8 hops (TTL=248). But, the node is losing
packets. It is a HTTP server (running Apache/1.3.22 (Unix) mod_bwlimited/0.8 PHP/4.0.6 mod_log_bytes/0.3
FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 mod_ssl/2.8.5 OpenSSL/0.9.6b).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Hop | %Loss | IP Address | Node Name | Location | Tzone | ms | Graph | Network |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 | | 161.58.180.113 | win10115.iad.dn.net | Dulles, VA, USA | -05:00 | | | Verio, Inc. |
| 1 | | 161.58.176.129 | - | ?Englewood, CO 80112 | | 0 | x | Verio, Inc. |
| 2 | | 161.58.156.140 | - | ?Englewood, CO 80112 | | 0 | x | Verio, Inc. |
| 3 | | 129.250.27.215 | ge-1-3-0.r02.stngva01.us.bb.verio.net | Sterling, VA, USA | -05:00 | 0 | x | Verio, Inc. |
| 4 | | 129.250.5.102 | p16-0-0-0.r01.chcgil01.us.bb.verio.net | Chicago, IL, USA | -06:00 | 16 | x-- | Verio, Inc. |
| 5 | | 129.250.2.221 | p16-5-0-0.r02.chcgil01.us.bb.verio.net | Chicago, IL, USA | -06:00 | 15 | x- | Verio, Inc. |
| 6 | | 129.250.4.5 | p4-1-0-0.r01.enwdco01.us.bb.verio.net | Denver, CO, USA | -07:00 | 46 | x- | Verio, Inc. |
| 7 | | 129.250.26.148 | ge-1-2.a02.enwdco01.us.da.verio.net | Denver, CO, USA | -07:00 | 46 | x- | Verio, Inc. |
| 8 | 40 | 64.119.160.204 | x213.com | ?Milwaukie, OR 97222 | | 47 | x | VenturesOnline.com, LLC |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok OK, I got ya. I will change the chains to steel beams form the bottom. The reason to blow air under the racks is to blow heat away from the CPU's like fans. I will get pics of the current NOC (Under Constuction). Also I don't have any servers with tera-byte or ventures online. Lol :D

Some sort of levitation device might be in order. I was going to suggest massive magnets of the same polarity to keep the racks and the floor seperate by oposing force. But that much electro-magnetic field could mess with the servers. Hard to know until you give it a try. Let me know if you do have a go at my idea.

In any case, I believe you are totally on the wrong track and not thinking laterally enough. Air is a poor conductor of heat relative to most liquids. The solution is to find a non-corossive, non-conductive liquid and flood your basement in the stuff and cirulate it through a cooler. Of course, working in scuba gear will be a small inconvenience you will have to live with.

I wanna see pictures!!!*WAAAAA*(baby sound)

Chris

well when I went to samspade.org, an ip whois gives me:

webxonline.com resolves to 66.51.106.99

Trying whois -h whois.arin.net 66.51.106.99
Tera-byte Dot Com Inc. (NETBLK-TERA-BYTE-2)
Suite 900,
CN Tower, 10004-104 Ave
EDMONTON AB T5J0K1
CA

Netname: TERA-BYTE-2
Netblock: 66.51.96.0 - 66.51.127.255
Maintainer: TRBY

Coordinator:
Network Operations Centre (NO58-ORG-ARIN) noc@TERA-BYTE.COM
+1-780-413-1868
Fax- +1-780-413-1869

ect......................
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

and a trecert gives me...

webxonline.com resolves to 66.51.106.99

3 198.172.117.161 2.927 ms DNS error [AS2914] Verio
4 129.250.29.142 2.753 ms ge-5-0.r01.lsanca01.us.bb.verio.net [AS2914] Verio
5 208.172.33.205 4.519 ms acr2-sonet2-2-0-0.Anaheim.cw.net [AS3561] Cable & Wireless (CW)
6 208.172.82.62 31.584 ms acr2-loopback.Seattlesel.cw.net [AS3561] Cable & Wireless (CW)
7 208.172.81.130 32.75 ms telus-services-inc.Seattlesel.cw.net [AS3561] Cable & Wireless (CW)
8 209.53.75.177 36.591 ms p6-0.nwmrbc01br01.bb.telus.com [AS852/AS1691] AGT Advance Communication / Unknown
9 209.53.75.186 66.296 ms p12-0.edtnabxmbr01.bb.telus.com (DNS error) [AS852/AS1691] AGT Advance Communication / Unknown
10 205.233.111.134 66.37 ms c8-0-0.edtnabkddr01.bb.telus.com (DNS error) [AS852] AGT Advance Communication
11 209.115.219.238 68.68 ms DNS error [AS852] AGT Advance Communication
12 216.234.160.22 57.781 ms cat6006-vlan400.edm.tera-byte.com [AS6638] OA Internet Inc.
13 216.234.160.54 50.234 ms fw-4ws-fxp0.edm.tera-byte.com [AS6638] OA Internet Inc.
14 66.51.106.99 52.175 ms ip-66-51-106-99.tera-byte.com [AS852] AGT Advance Communication
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

hmmmmmmmmmm...:D

C:\>ping x213.com

Pinging x213.com [64.119.160.204] with 32 bytes of data:




64.119.160.204 - Belongs to VO......




VenturesOnline.com, LLC (NETBLK-VOSN)
10824 SE Oak Street Suite 245
Milwaukie, OR 97222
US

Netname: VOSN
Netblock: 64.119.160.0 - 64.119.175.255
Maintainer: VOSN

Coordinator:
Pearson, Daniel (DP1021-ARIN) ipmanager@venturesonline.com
205-785-1872




Ahhh.... So I finally figured out where Daniel REALLY hosts his servers.... Hey, didn't they say they were gonna build their own DC soon??????? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by x213Networks
Also I don't have any servers with tera-byte or ventures online. Lol :D



Anyone wanna take me up on a bet? $5 bucks says he's a reseller.....

Originally posted by freakysid
Some sort of levitation device might be in order. I was going to suggest massive magnets of the same polarity to keep the racks and the floor seperate by oposing force. But that much electro-magnetic field could mess with the servers. Hard to know until you give it a try. Let me know if you do have a go at my idea....

Instead of electromagnetic levitation, why not use the cooling air? If the upward air flow is of a sufficiently high velocity, the air flow will lift the cabinets off the floor. :D

Originally posted by The Prohacker




Anyone wanna take me up on a bet? $5 bucks says he's a reseller.....

I bet you that 5 bucks that he is not even a customer of VO or a reseller.

Originally posted by Paul L.


I bet you that 5 bucks that he is not even a customer of VO or a reseller.
Can I go with you in this? :)

Originally posted by 311
well when I went to samspade.org, an ip whois gives me:

webxonline.com resolves to 66.51.106.99

Trying whois -h whois.arin.net 66.51.106.99
Tera-byte Dot Com Inc. (NETBLK-TERA-BYTE-2)
Suite 900,
CN Tower, 10004-104 Ave
EDMONTON AB T5J0K1
CA

Netname: TERA-BYTE-2
Netblock: 66.51.96.0 - 66.51.127.255
Maintainer: TRBY

Coordinator:
Network Operations Centre (NO58-ORG-ARIN) noc@TERA-BYTE.COM
+1-780-413-1868
Fax- +1-780-413-1869

ect......................
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

and a trecert gives me...

webxonline.com resolves to 66.51.106.99



hmmmmmmmmmm...:D

And where did you saw that his domain is webxonline.com ???????:confused: :confused:

Yeah me and Jorge need some beer money so we are willing to take the bet ;)

Don't make that bet so fast!!! I am a reseller for Downtownhost, but I am leaving him soon :( I just bought a dedicated server and am planning to work with that :D I am sorry, but I forgot to mention that those were plans!! I edited the post to relfect that. In the near future I plan on building a noc and datacenter and I wanted ideas. Thanks though. However I think that lifting them with steel stilts is a better idea then air or magnets. LOL! :D Thanks for the ideas!!!!

Anyway, we won :)
The bet was about if x213 is or not a VO reseller

So, free beers to Paul and me, Prohacker pay :D

Originally posted by 311
well when I went to samspade.org, an ip whois gives me:

webxonline.com resolves to 66.51.106.99

Trying whois -h whois.arin.net 66.51.106.99
Tera-byte Dot Com Inc. (NETBLK-TERA-BYTE-2)
Suite 900,
CN Tower, 10004-104 Ave
EDMONTON AB T5J0K1
CA

Netname: TERA-BYTE-2
Netblock: 66.51.96.0 - 66.51.127.255
Maintainer: TRBY

Coordinator:
Network Operations Centre (NO58-ORG-ARIN) noc@TERA-BYTE.COM
+1-780-413-1868
Fax- +1-780-413-1869

ect......................
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

and a trecert gives me...

webxonline.com resolves to 66.51.106.99

3 198.172.117.161 2.927 ms DNS error [AS2914] Verio
4 129.250.29.142 2.753 ms ge-5-0.r01.lsanca01.us.bb.verio.net [AS2914] Verio
5 208.172.33.205 4.519 ms acr2-sonet2-2-0-0.Anaheim.cw.net [AS3561] Cable & Wireless (CW)
6 208.172.82.62 31.584 ms acr2-loopback.Seattlesel.cw.net [AS3561] Cable & Wireless (CW)
7 208.172.81.130 32.75 ms telus-services-inc.Seattlesel.cw.net [AS3561] Cable & Wireless (CW)
8 209.53.75.177 36.591 ms p6-0.nwmrbc01br01.bb.telus.com [AS852/AS1691] AGT Advance Communication / Unknown
9 209.53.75.186 66.296 ms p12-0.edtnabxmbr01.bb.telus.com (DNS error) [AS852/AS1691] AGT Advance Communication / Unknown
10 205.233.111.134 66.37 ms c8-0-0.edtnabkddr01.bb.telus.com (DNS error) [AS852] AGT Advance Communication
11 209.115.219.238 68.68 ms DNS error [AS852] AGT Advance Communication
12 216.234.160.22 57.781 ms cat6006-vlan400.edm.tera-byte.com [AS6638] OA Internet Inc.
13 216.234.160.54 50.234 ms fw-4ws-fxp0.edm.tera-byte.com [AS6638] OA Internet Inc.
14 66.51.106.99 52.175 ms ip-66-51-106-99.tera-byte.com [AS852] AGT Advance Communication
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

hmmmmmmmmmm...:D

311: I think your a bit confused, I don't deny the fact that I host with Tera-Byte and Rackshack.net...

I was referring to this guys NOC - oh wait, those are just plans now... I knew he didn't have his own dc in his basement because he was hosted with VO. Now if you'd like to explain what your talking about... I'd be happy to listen.

His domain ISNT webxonline.com, that's mine.

Hey guys, calm down. Whats wrong with someone having a personal NOC in his basement? I dont think he said anywhere that he wants to host Fortune 500 companies! I still wouldn't recommend a basement, though, unless you're living in the desert where there's no flooding ...but still, give him a break :)

I think people who are serious in the business (excuse the pretention) are a bit tired of the people coming in with ides of taking their (our) turf.

I see this a lot (contention of engineers against new 'hosts') and can't say I fall too far from the former.

Drew

absolutly nothing wrong with hosting datacenters in a basement.... especially if you live on a hill =), just so long as you dont live near the red river or any of those crazy floodzones =).

Rather than the chains, look into raised flooring. That's a much better approach. I would recommend running power under the floor, and your network lines above the racks to lessen interference. :)

Regards,

Originally posted by creid
I wanna see pictures!!!*WAAAAA*(baby sound)

Chris

ROFLOL !!. *WEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAA* my little beautiful cusin use to cry like this. ;) :D

hmm, but if it is small DC how he can bear all the expenses of security etc. (hmm X10 camera are cheap these days ;) ) is this possible for small DC to bear all such expenses (i don't know).

Also what about the future upgrades of DC or he may move to bigger DC onces he had the money and many clients. !!

Kiwi, what you said may be true but i will not host my server at basement, though i am not even in the list of foutune 10000 companies ;) (its just me)

if its a small DC, how much bandwidth he is going to keep over there ?.

anyway, i wish you best of luck x213Networks.

HAPPY NEW YEAR. This is my first post of 2002. ;)

Originally posted by Jedito


And where did you saw that his domain is webxonline.com ???????:confused: :confused:

LOL!!!!!! I'm a dumba$$!!!!! :stickout it lookes like i did a tracert on the wrong domain!!!!! geez.... I've never make a mistake in my life...:blush:

(j/k) :D :D:blush:

lol, thanks for all the ideas. I only need around 100gb bandwidth and have been thinking about this for a while. And my basement is not SMALL lol. Its 10,000 square feet. And I live on a high spot and there has never been flooding so I am not worried. But like I said these were only plans. I was thinking last night and thought about waiting and building a state of the art dc in the way way future. I guess now I am happy with my current dedicated servers. Lol Anyway do any of you guys have your own dc. For your companies. I would love to hear about them.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

if you only need 100gb of bw then there is no need for your own data center...:)

I wish I had a DC in my house =(


Why would raised floor help the cooling other than just power cables etc. You'd have to drill holes in the raised floor just below the racks inorder to get the cool air going into it.

Brian

Ya I know, these were just ideas that I had. I don't need a dc anytime soon!

Originally posted by BrianF
...Why would raised floor help the cooling other than just power cables etc. You'd have to drill holes in the raised floor just below the racks inorder to get the cool air going into it....


In the typical raised-floor computer room, the space under the raised floor is part of the air-cooling system's ductwork. The air conditioner blows the cool air into the space under the raised floor, and sucks the warm air in from the room near the ceiling.

Under each of your racks, you put a special floor tile that has a 8"x8" cut-out in the center of the tile. The cut-out allows cool air to blow up into the rack, and also provides a space for wires to pass through. If you need less cool air for a rack, you reduce the size of the cut-out.

One computer room I was in had a tower PC over in the corner for file services. The admin had cut a hole in the floor tile right in front of the tower. Cool air flowed upward from the hole past the front of the tower, giving the PC's cooling fans a nice supply of cool air. :D

Here's a computer-room cooler: http://www.liebert.com/dynamic/displayproduct.asp?id=541&cycles=60Hz

Note that 1 ton of cooling is 12,000 BTUs per hour. Each watt of electricity used generates about 3.45 BTUs. A human generates about 1000 BTUs per hour, more when there's a crisis.

Note to self: don't hire freakysid to design new datacenter. :D

Originally posted by jkehe
I would recommend running power under the floor, and your network lines above the racks to lessen interference. :)

And as a side benefit, you'll comply with fire regulations as well. :)

Most fire codes require that power and data cables be run either in separate conduits or at least 12" away from each other.

I am not sure about the fire codes for this type of project, I guess thats something I gotta look into when I do this project.