Hello:

What should you do if a Host deletes all your files.

I wanted the host to change my domain name for my account since they had it wrong the first time. When they change it they must need to recreate the account, therefore deleteing all the existing files.

They told verify that I downloaded a backup of the site before they do any action.

Also verify that your files are backed up as I will need to completely recreate your account to make the domain change.

Also they told me I needed the first 2 and last 4 digits of my cc.

When I responded to them, I only responded to them with my first 2 and last 4 digits of my cc, but I did not verify that my files are backed up.

Then I found out they recreated the account and my files were lost. I do not have a backup of it and I'm in a bad situation.

I was suppose to sell my site for $850. The guy already paid me $300 for the transfer of the domain. (teenreality.com)

I already spent the 300 on christmas gifts and right now I'm jobless.

My host put me in such a bad situation, how should I take care of this?

They offered me free months, but thats poitnless since its only 10 dollars a month and It doesnt compare to the 850 that I'm going to lose and the fact that I was going to sell it.

Anthony

If they are using Cpanel or plesk, it woud be a simple matter of changing domains...... The loss of your files due to this is stupid, but as the owner of the site, you are responsible for keeping an up to date backup with most companies.....

It uses Cpanel. I never kept backups since the host offers free daily backups.

Anthony

It takes about 4 clicks via WHM to change a domain.... Well, tell them to give you the tar ball from their daily backups so you can restore your site :D When emailing them concerning this, send the URL to this thread, I'm sure they'll be very interested in it :D

I asked them if there was any way to download previous daily backups, but they didn't answer yet. But I did ask is there any way to recover the filesa and they said no.

Anthony

So how did the files get there in the first place? Did you just upload'em then remove them from your computer? Isn't that a bit of a pain to update having to re-download all the time and upload? Anyway, you'll be keeping backups from now on right? :D

It's sad that these things happen, but sometimes learning requires a toll.

My website was a online teen community. Members could upload pictures for profile, had there guestbook data, member data, homepage files.

So therefore I really do not have all the files to re-upload. If all I had to do was re-upload my files, then I woudln't even care about this situation.

Anthony

I guess you can just cross your fingers that they have a good backup and will get it for you. I just can't imagine having a site you can sell and taking money for it and not having your own backup copy of it on your own pc.

Well, I've been busy tryin to find a job and not even really thinking about the site. I did keep downloading 25 mb everday when I did commit myself to the site.

There would be no point in me needing a backup file when the host could of just made me verify that I did need it.

Anthony

I'm not familiar with the process of "how" your host was taking daily backups....but they could be keeping backups of say...past 7 days ??

If yes, try asking them to search old backup records...maybe they could find it for you...

Good Luck!

Originally posted by Manish
I'm not familiar with the process of "how" your host was taking daily backups....but they could be keeping backups of say...past 7 days ??

If yes, try asking them to search old backup records...maybe they could find it for you...

Good Luck!



I think his/her host means they offer you the ablity to download the tarball from Cpanel everyday as your backup, I don't think they ever keep a copy.....

Hello.

This seems to be a similar case of something about...

There has been some hated debate about the issue on the customer is always right. Remember it guys?

It was the case that a host ask a client to verify the CC and the customer verifies the CC but does not explicitly tell that the backup has already been done. But, the host assumes that the backup is already finished. Oh boy. This case must have happen a lot.

My comments:

There should be a clear system that all hosting companies should adopt in a case where the catastrophic effect is the deletion of customer files.


In the case in question, the host should have merely created a new account, moved the files from the old account and after a successful move (and verifying that it is indeed successful) delete the old account. I cannot understand why the customer should do this for himself. I mean, imagine the hassle especially if you are dialing up. The host should have at least do the favor of transferring the files to the new account. But, I may be wrong. So correct me on this one.

For the "victim", backups are good and good hosts provide good backup. Ask them if they have. If they don't ...

:)

consul, I definetly agree with you. There is no need for a customer to download its own tar backup, when the host could do itself.

tanger, what host are you with?

Since it was no matter what their mistake, you should do something about it. I mean you did say they offered u free months hosting right? By that it usually means the host did admit that they are wrong.

If they said you they have no way to recover your files and your community member data/files, then its pointless to even bother with this situation.

What I would do in this situation is to try to sue them.

I'm not sure if its possible? Anyone want to comment on my statement?
But a mistake like this from a host shouldn't be tolerated, thats all I know of.

Stan

Aloha well you will loose if you try to sue them and you will loose court costs ???
tehy will ask did they tell you to back up your files yes or no and you say well yes and that is that they most likey have in there TOS that they are not responsible etc...
I guess you could try to see if they have a back up like others have said.
also take a lesson this sucks but find a host who does tape backups and keeps them around for say 7 days so in the future you may not have this happen very sorry for ya ;(

According to tanger,

The host told tanger to verify that his files are backedup, and tanger never verified it yet they still continued with the process.

Stan

Aloha
well Stan I can see your point but it comes down to they told him to back up files and give him his CC so guess they figured that by giving hte CC that he had also backed up his files
not needing to tell them OH and I didnt back up my files yet ???
kinda a bad miscomunication thing
a good host might have double checked and asked
have you bakced up your files yet if he said NO I would have siad well dont give me your CC yet ????
just my thoughts

this really sucks no way around it ?? I feel for ya Anthony ;(
I know I try to have back ups of my backups even just cause stuff like this
what happens if the host building burns down ???
where are your backups ??? ;)

Originally posted by tanger
It uses Cpanel. I never kept backups since the host offers free daily backups.

Anthony

I think this pretty much seals the deal on the fault being your web host should they not be able to get your files back. Even if you had initially incorrectly told them to delete your files, you say they advertise daily backups, so if they cannot get some version of your content back to you, it becomes false advertising (a concrete fault).

Very best of luck to you,

Hey,

The host I use is HostRocket. Right now, there is no advertisement on there site of free backups. Now I think they started charge for Remote backups.

But, I'm pretty sure before that under the plan I ordered, had "Daily Backups" on it.

Stan, I don't think I can sue them for something like this.

Anthony

Hi,

Basically this looks like another case of miscommunication caused by someone either misreading or misinterpreting what someone else read.... the section of the ticket about this reads:


On 2001-12-20 EST at 19:26:09, graham wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

It looks as though the domain is still teenreality.com. Please reply back with the first 2 and last 4 digits of your credit card number and I will change it back.

Also verify that your files are backed up as I will need to completely recreate your account to make the domain change.

-Graham McMillan
HostRocket Support


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-12-26 EST at 16:03:33, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello:

First 2: xx
First 4: xxxx

Anthony


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-12-28 EST at 17:58:04, graham wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Your account has been recreated with the correct domain name(teen-reality.com).

-Graham McMillan
HostRocket Support


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-12-28 EST at 18:35:30, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello:

All my files are lost!?!?!

Please say you could restore my files with a daily backup or something???

Thank you very much,
Anthony


Basically we offered him some free hosting in response to the situation because we felt bad about what happened as it really does suck, but I dont think it was either party involved fault directly. We do not advertise that we have daily backups on our site because we have not fully implemented the system on all of our servers. Graham was spoken to about the situation however I can see how he interpreted the response to his question as Anthony having confirmed that he had everything backed up.

-Brendan
bbrader@hostrocket.com

Graham was spoken to about the situation however I can see how he interpreted the response to his question as Anthony having confirmed that he had everything backed up.

If Anthony did confirm he had everythig backed up, then its definetly Anthonys fault.

But Anthony you did say you never verified it and just responded w/ the first 2 and last 4 digits.

In that case, Anthony is no matter what right. It was a mistake on Graham's fault (I'm assuming).

The customer does not know how the process of changing a domain name for a account works, therefore he wouldn' know anything about needing a backp.

What Graham should of done is reply back saying we must also need to verify you have backed up your files.

What I think shoud seal the deal to this situation is, make Anthony show proof that he did transfer his domain to someone for $300.

If he has proof that he was really going to sell the site then, HostRocket you guys should at east give him $300.



Again this is my view to solve this situation.


Stan

Graham did explain the process of how he was going to do things right in the same response in the ticket where he asked for confirmation... it was definatly reasonable to assume that he had backed his site up given the response he gave, and the 5-6 days in between.

-Brendan

I'd probably side with HostRocket on this one. While it's true that they could have taken another approach, or made a copy of the site themselves to be restored after the change, they did make it clear that the user was expected to have a backup before the process was undertaken.
Also verify that your files are backed up as I will need to completely recreate your account to make the domain change. That can easily be taken as telling Anthony to verify it himself -- that is, to check the integrity of his backups -- and not to necessarily confirm with HR that he had a backup. If the wording was something like "in your reply confirm to me that you have a backup" it'd be a different thing.

But it seems like a warning was given that data would be lost, a confirmation that it was ok to proceed was received, (the credit card numbers) and the process was undertaken as agreed.

It's an unfortunate result, though.

Look,

As consul said,

this issue is the fact that the customer is always right.

JayC, what are you talking about on this.



That can easily be taken as telling Anthony to verify it himself -- that is, to check the integrity of his backups -- and not to necessarily confirm with HR that he had a backup. If the wording was something like "in your reply confirm to me that you have a backup" it'd be a different thing.



------
Also verify that your files are backed up as I will need to completely recreate your account to make the domain change.

The support person of HostRocket is basically saying:
Also I need you to verify that you have your files backed up so I could comletely recreate the account and go through the proccess.

Noice the "as I will need to", part of that quote.
"NEED"is the keyword. He needs Anthony to verify it.

Stan

BTW;

JayC, A host should always make sure the customer has his files backed up if they were going to go through a process that needs to delete his files.



Also verify that your files are backed up as I will need to completely recreate your account to make the domain change.

Why would they use the word "verify" If they assumed the customer arleady backed up the files?


------
On 2001-12-20 EST at 19:26:09, graham wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

It looks as though the domain is still teenreality.com. Please reply back with the first 2 and last 4 digits of your credit card number and I will change it back.

Also verify that your files are backed up as I will need to completely recreate your account to make the domain change.

-Graham McMillan
HostRocket Support


--------------------

Why couldn't they just say:
Please reply back with first 2 and last 4 digits and verify your files are backed up to complete this process.

Instead of adding a whole sentence using "Also"


Stan

Hello:

Stan I never verified to Graham that I had my files backed up.

I was totally blank that I needed a backup.

When I opened my mail and read the response ticket, All I read was the first 2 and last 4 digits of my cc part.

I didn't even see the backup file part.

But still, I'm still kinda upset on how Graham couldn't just reply asking me to verify my files are backed up.

If I replied back just saying "Yeah I backed up my files", Then Graham would of replied back saying I need your first 2 and last 4 digits also.

Oh and yeah I do have to come up with 300 dollars to payback the person who wanted to buy my site. I do have the transfer papers for proof. Keep in mind here that I'm only 17 and jobless. So 300 dollars is a BIG deal to me. And I was about to sell the site for 850, meaning it cost me a lot more then just 300.

In fact check out how serious of a situation I'm in.

The guy paid me 300 first for the domain and was about to send the 550 when I actually transfered the site.

He gave me 300 in cash and then bang all of a sudden I have to e-mail the guy saying my files are lost. It'll make me look like a scam artist or something. How could the guy even believe me?




Anthony

It's not much, but if you really end up without anything, try

http://web.archive.org

...

Hello:

Huh whats that site for?

Anthony

Hello
We have our own servers with backups, but for our own sites we always keep a local copy and backup onto CDR.

Its much, much simpler to restore from a local copy than relying on the web host or offsite backups that you have no control over.

Even though I know the backups are intact I would never trust them. Much better to have a hard copy..........

When I worked on databases it was one copy on the system, one copy in the fire safe, one copy in my briefcase and one copy posted to another office (every day).

Gordon

Originally posted by tanger
Hello:

Huh whats that site for?
Did you visit it?

It takes snapshots of the entire Internet, and often has enough information to put a site back online - at least at a point in time - if you have no alternatives.

Personally I back up my own systems every week - more often if I've done something critically important, however if you have nothing but a blank screen to start putting your site back together from, this might help.

-t

Oh Okay :)

Still no help though. I have all my files in my cdrive just not be members data/files.

Anthony

Tanger, I think it is unfortunate that this happened, but ultimately there are a couple of things here, some of which is sadly after the fact, and you you probably realize it now...

1. You should have backups of your information. Assume that any backups the host does are backups to *your* backups, not the other way around. Ultimately, it is your info and you need to safeguard it.

2. You may not have read the entire email but I don't think you can blame HR for that. Again, while it is unfortunate that you lost your info, the instructions were clear, and I would have assumed that the customer followed the instructions, or would have asked more questions, but I can see how they thought that 6 days later and the response of the numbers was the green light from you.

It was miscommunication and when that happens, I really don't think there is a right or wrong, it is just an unfortunate situation for both parties. Neither wanted to lose the files and I'm sure they feel terrible for the miscommunication and maybe everyone learned something.

In the future, always take responsibility for your information. Always. Maybe HR can put up a form instead of asking for a ticket reply, with a checkbox: "I verify I have backed up my information" or something. I don't know. Some way to make it even more obvious and clear so this could be avoided.

Aloha
Anthony if you have emails etc... can you email people to tell them to go repost there info etc..???

sorry to say again but I am siding with Hostrocket here not to be a jerk ;)
but if you did not read the email all the way etc..
be glad you are young and this is not your main income or your job on the line
college is expensive so are mistakes soemtimes chalk it up for experience I have had a lot of lifes mistakes that has made me all the wiser etc... all of us had welcome to adult hood ;)

Hey,

Thanks for posting this one. It's great! So this might be the "time machine" that one of our colleagues used to find out the name of our mascot in our promo in the other thread. Hehe.

It is a good alternative to backup when you do not have anything at hand.

Originally posted by thewitt
It's not much, but if you really end up without anything, try

http://web.archive.org

...

:)

Okay,

First, By Anthony responding 6 days late with his cc info doesn't give the right fr Graham to think he already has a backup.

I mean can't the customer been away for the holidays or something?

I'm going against HostRocket on this one definetly.

Chicken, yeah this was a miscommunication situation BUT still it's HostRockets fault for miscommunicatin.

Anthony how much you pay a month and how many months youve been w/ them. You should ask for a full refund of all months billed + the 300 dollars to pay back the person buying your site.

This case is where the customer is always right.

Yes, HostRocket feels terrible and Graham really believed that Anthony did do a backup,

BUT it still doesn't matter. It is still your fault HostRocket.
Anthony If I was you I would take this matter elsewhere, maybe to a lawyer or something or at least try asking HostRocket for a full refund of all months billed to your cc and 300 dollars.

People defending HostRocket on this one are probably people that are friends from HostRocket or want to save there asses.

Because what you guys pratically did was lose a customer files.

Its different if you lost a customer files by a fire, or a hacker, but this was a mistake by your Staff!

I read your tos also,

it states :
. Important and private information should be protected/backed up by you. For example, we are not liable for protection or privacy of electronic mail or other information transferred through the Internet or any other network provider that you may use

Don't be afraid of that part Anthony, if you take them to court, that TOS would not back them up and you could easily win with the proof you have.

Yeah taking the to court might seem a hassle, but what do you have to lose? At least if you do they might even come up with a agreement to send you 300 and refund you for previous months.

Anthony I'll be glad to help you get a good lawyer on this case.
E-ail me (profile) and I'll aslo give you sites on these situations.



Stan

Stan, with all due respect you seem to be on a personal vendetta and this isn't even personal to you.

Now would be a great time for the mods to close this thread.

I'm giving advice to tanger and trying to help him out with this situation.

I don't see why by me giving advice and trying to help Antony should close this thread.


And also on why I'm contributing to this thread so much because mainly it just gets me ma.

I don't see how HostRocket, a 'host with a good reputation' could acutally do this mistake and try to deny it.

Can't a host just admit that they are wrong?

Think about it.

HostRocket made no mistake!

Aloha
Stan are you a lawyer ???
you say you will not loose ??
huh guess you have not been to court very much or at all

what can you loose well court costs for one and time (which is money) so he could loose up to a few thousand dollars
sounds like you have a fight to pick or you are just bitter about something else ???
hehehehe
people like you are funny to me always wanting to make someone else take the blame
hehehheheheheheee

And tell me how Dylan?

When I say you have nothing to lose I mean that tanger has a good case to put up with and the fac that he could win much more.

And once again,
I'm just trying to help out tanger, unlike most of you guys who come post on this thread and just pick sides or say what tanger should've done.

I'm not picking sides or anything, all im saying is HostRocket made a mistake and is wrong. When I say they are wrong is the fact how Brendan is trying to deny or cover up there mistake.


Stan

Originally posted by StanVI
First, By Anthony responding 6 days late with his cc info doesn't give the right fr Graham to think he already has a backup.

I mean can't the customer been away for the holidays or something?
I think the discussion regarding the time, was that it had been a few days, enough time for someone to back up the file, but the point is moot. It doesn't really matter if he responded the next day, or 3 weeks later.
Anthony how much you pay a month and how many months youve been w/ them. You should ask for a full refund of all months billed + the 300 dollars to pay back the person buying your site.
I'm not sure what leads you to suggest that he shouldn't pay for the services he used. Doesn't seem to make much sense. Plus the $300 is another issue and not one HR is responsible for.
BUT it still doesn't matter. It is still your fault HostRocket.
Anthony If I was you I would take this matter elsewhere, maybe to a lawyer or something or at least try asking HostRocket for a full refund of all months billed to your cc and 300 dollars.

Anthony I'll be glad to help you get a good lawyer on this case.
E-ail me (profile) and I'll aslo give you sites on these situations.
Ummm, hiring a lawyer for something like this is completely ridiculous. The per hour rate would eat up this case in 2-3 hours. If this were a $10,000 issue, then yes, I'd hire a lawyer, but anything under that just wouldn't be worth the lawyer's time, nor yours.
People defending HostRocket on this one are probably people that are friends from HostRocket or want to save there asses.
I don't think they are friends of HR, I think they are trying to give Anthony some advice (everyone who disagrees with you isn't necessarily HR's 'buddy'). Telling him to hire a lawyer and pursue the matter in court surely isn't sound advice. Any lawyer will tell him that though.

If you want to help Anthony, then please contact him off-board. Blaming someone isn't going to bring the files back, so this issue should be handled between Anthony and HR, and there isn't much else the forum can do for him.