I don't want to stir up trouble here, but I'm getting frustrated with the lack of worthwhile host directories on the web. I remember just a year ago, many places were thriving. HostInvestigator was popular, WebHostDir was somewhat useful. But now, such places promote the guy who fills their pockets. Hosting companies practicaly run these places now, undermining consumers who are just starting to explore the web hosting world.

Either they bombard you with animated ads which are hard to avoid, or they rig the reviews and ratings by either flat-out writing them, or letting the host post fake testimonials praising themselves. Most of us here have years of experience with webhosts and are keen at recognizing rigged reviews or sold-out directories. But we have to remember, the influx of rookies into the hosting business is constant. They have to go through the same money-losing headache-causing experiences we once did. Should we just sit by and laugh, or help out? Forums like these are a tremendous part of this, but they've been somewhat silent on this whole issue.

Understandably, people who run these benjamin-craving directories (aka webhost lackeys) want to make money and eat, but you can make money and still not sell out to the advertising gods. Some places have done that. Ratewebhost.com is one of them. Providing a powerful search, and nicely organized review system, they have a single banner at the top. I don't know how well they police their reviews, but at first glance it seems effective.

So instead of whining about the lack of usable directories, a few of us have gotten together to form an honest directory, proving that money can be made without ruining the reputation.

This directory is HostingCatalog.com (http://www.hostingcatalog.com) .

It's still fresh from its recent release and we're constantly updating the appearance and the scripting, but so far it has attracted a nice audience of, both, webhosts and webmasters. As we expand it, we're hoping it will grow to become a large, useful and successful place that will make everyone happy - webhosts looking for exposure and webmasters looking for a truly reliable place to host their websites. We have made one commitment which we will live up to: we will not exchange truth for money. We will expose bad and dishonest hosts, and highlite those that are truly worth the business.

We would appreciate any comments and suggestions you guys have. Either reply here or send them to suggestions@hostingcatalog.com .

Thanks for your time and your insights.

:beer:

Sounds like a good plan you've got there. Good luck with your site, we could use an open alternative to all the TopHosts/HostIndexes/HostSearches out there. :)

I'm interested to learn how you're different from the "other" web hosting directories. I've visited your site, and it seems advertisers can also buy their way into most aspects of your site. For your "best of the best" category, you do require a review, but it's still listed exclusively via payment, and 1-2 days is barely enough to test out a company's service. If you want to truly be unique, why not list companies that have a proven track record, paid or no paid listing. For example, Futurequest.net, Rackspace etc. For the other categories where they're titled "Our picks", advertisers can purchase premium listings.

Don't mean to be confrontational, just wanted to understand more your argument.

Originally posted by alec k.
But now, such places promote the guy who fills their pockets.
From their site:
Best of the Best
Every month we dig through our archive and hunt for the best of the best! These outstanding companies can be found here.
Hosts: Contact us if you are interested in being listed here.

:rolleyes:

I agree. Any webmaster with more than 3 brain cells will realize that a one or two day test period is nothing more than a formality.

This thread is an advertisement disguised as moral indignation.

Best of the best works like this:

There are two ways to be listed in the best of the best category:

a. You receive a lot of really good reviews from different people over a period of a few months. Our system automatically 'digs through our directory' and lets us know about these kinds of listings. These listings are listed for free.

b. Alternatively, a company can pay a $150.00 review fee for the *possible* best of the best listing. These is a simple non refundable review fee, the company must also provide an account for us to check it out. If they are not listed, the fee is not refundable, however from that day on they are welcome to request additional reviews at no extra charge. We also reserve the right to remove a company from the best of the best page at any time should they begin to receive sufficient amounts of negative reviews.

This should be clarified better on the site, I'll make sure that's done tomorrow.

On premium listings: A premium listing simply moves the advertiser to the top of the page, and highlights their listing. This is all they receive, they are still subject to the honest reviews of our visitors and the same rules/regulations that other listings are subject too. We also limit premium listings to two listings per page.

What we DON'T do is sell full pages of ads like most other directories do. Take a quick walk over to your local favorite web hosting directory and take a look. You'll see at least 5-6 ads per page which are obviously ads, to find non paying web hosting companies you sometimes even have to dig a bit. Most directories 'showcases' are 100% sold ads. The only true showcase we have is the 'best of the best' listing, and we don't let just anyone in.

I hope that answers your questions. Thanks for the replies everyone.

Originally posted by northernscum
I agree. Any webmaster with more than 3 brain cells will realize that a one or two day test period is nothing more than a formality.

This thread is an advertisement disguised as moral indignation.

Alec should have posted this in this form to begin with, however as someone who has known Alec for many years, I can honestly say that he has wined and complained about hosting directories long before HostingCatalog.com and dkAds were even born.

He's been a webmaster longer than I have, and has had problems with several hosting companies that advertised on directories, and got his business from them. I think that this is a little, tiny bit more than that..

Originally posted by northernscum
I agree. Any webmaster with more than 3 brain cells will realize that a one or two day test period is nothing more than a formality.

This thread is an advertisement disguised as moral indignation.

Why would I wanna advertise the site through 1 post, in 1 forum? Do you see us promoting the directory anywhere else? The only reason we are posting HERE is to receive feedback from experienced webmasters who have seen it all and been through it all. Advertising something that's just released and still being revamped would be absurd, just like your assumptions.

We are still experimenting with guidelines, and from the replies posted so far, we are getting new ideas. We'd rather make it something partially conceived by many, than completely conceived by a few.

Originally posted by Refsoft


Alec should have posted this in this form to begin with, however as someone who has known Alec for many years, I can honestly say that he has wined and complained about hosting directories long before HostingCatalog.com and dkAds were even born.

He's been a webmaster longer than I have, and has had problems with several hosting companies that advertised on directories, and got his business from them. I think that this is a little, tiny bit more than that..

I hate to say this, but there is very little in either of the HostCatalog posts to convince me you're "morally better" than any of the other directories. So the site contains less ads- that doesn't say a lot other than 1) You don't have enough ads to fill the space yet 2) Or, you want to maximize the effectiveness of each ad. Regarding the "best of the best" issue, several directories also claim to get their info from user reviews. The fact that you accept paid listings put you exactly in the same boat as the other directories- ambiguity in terms of impartiality.

I can see the point you're trying to make, but it really doesn't stand firm. And you are just beginning. If and when your directory grows, the temptation will only grow to compromise even the things you're upholding now. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't pretend to be something you're not.

GeorgeC,

I beg to differ. We have plenty of ads to fill more than the space we have open on HostingCatalog from our advertising network, which is running about 7 paid banner campaigns right now, totaling over 16,000 clicks. However, we choose to a. keep the space strictly separate from our standard network, and b. sold directly for the site.

Best of the best listings are not paid. We still review all of their services, and check their reviews often to make sure they are a good hosting company and not just another deep pocketed 'Page Creators' (http://www.holdenpd.com/pagecreat.html) buying ad space to look legitimate. We already have, actually, turned down an offer to be listed in the Best of the Best directory by a host with a shady reputation before they even paid the fee.

With premium listings: I don't see anything wrong with this, we have to pay for our servers, software, time and food somehow, after all. I'll use a service such as eLance as an example: eLance provides a free service to everyone, however, for a small fee provides a priority listing which draws more attention to the company bidding. This does not necessarily mean that that company is better or worse than the ones that cant afford a priority listing, or choose not to pay for one, and the rating/review system eLance has in place prevents bad companies with deep pockets from getting to much business from the premium listings.

Originally posted by Refsoft
GeorgeC,

With premium listings: I don't see anything wrong with this, we have to pay for our servers, software, time and food somehow, after all. I'll use a service such as eLance as an example: eLance provides a free service to everyone, however, for a small fee provides a priority listing which draws more attention to the company bidding. This does not necessarily mean that that company is better or worse than the ones that cant afford a priority listing, or choose not to pay for one, and the rating/review system eLance has in place prevents bad companies with deep pockets from getting to much business from the premium listings.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with premium listings at all. But then again there is nothing wrong with a page full of ads either, as long as they are appear as that. About the only clearly wrong thing for a directory to do is fake user reviews. Everything else is a shade of something.

My argument was never about what's "right" or "wrong", just what puts your directory on a higher moral ground. . Is it that you only accept quality companies as advertisers? If so, what are your creteria in reaching that conclusion? 1-2 days is definitely not enough to review a company. Just from looking at your site media kit I really don't see any difference between your standards and most reputable directories' (like Hostsearch, webhostlist etc). But then again you mentioned the media kit is a work in progress, which really makes arguing kind of hard until that's done.

Once again I'm not arguing what's right or wrong here, just your argument.

Originally posted by GeorgeC


I agree, there is nothing wrong with premium listings at all. But then again there is nothing wrong with a page full of ads either, as long as they are appear as that. About the only clearly wrong thing for a directory to do is fake user reviews. Everything else is a shade of something.

My argument was never about what's "right" or "wrong", just what puts your directory on a higher moral ground. . Is it that you only accept quality companies as advertisers? If so, what are your creteria in reaching that conclusion? 1-2 days is definitely not enough to review a company. Just from looking at your site media kit I really don't see any difference between your standards and most reputable directories' (like Hostsearch, webhostlist etc). But then again you mentioned the media kit is a work in progress, which really makes arguing kind of hard until that's done.

Once again I'm not arguing what's right or wrong here, just your argument.

GeorgeC,

Well, using the examples you used, HostSearch, while being a very nice, well done directory, does not clearly mark all ads. Just look at one of their showcases:

http://hostsearch.com/direct_unix.asp

To most experienced webmasters those listings are obviously paid. However, to a novence searching for hosting for his new personal site it may not be so obvious. To be completly fair, our premium listings can cause the same confusion, however unlike the HostSearch page-o-ads, the company can still be reviewed right there.

Originally posted by alec k.
Advertising something that's just released and still being revamped would be absurd, just like your assumptions.
Of course. What was I thinking? Couldn't have been the fact this thread was originally posted in the webhosting forum, not the website feedback forum, and consequently moved to an advertising forum. How positively absurd. :rolleyes:

Please, don't deny you were expecting at least some residual exposure from this thread. It's insulting.

As for the moral indignation, no doubt you feel strongly about those "benjamin-craving" directories, however as someone else mentioned I've seen your advertising policies and I can't say I've discovered anything truly distinct or original.

If anything, I find the heading "best of the best" more misleading than "showcase", as it suggests you've made a rigorous and unbiased effort to find the truly exceptional hosting companies. The "contact us if you are interested in being listed here" link suggests otherwise.

I'm not against your policies, nor is it my intent to say one form of advertising is better than the other. If you're going to blast your competition, however, while placing halos over your own heads, you better be ready to back yourself up.

Understandably, people who run these benjamin-craving directories (aka webhost lackeys) want to make money and eat, but you can make money and still not sell out to the advertising gods. Some places have done that. Ratewebhost.com is one of them. Providing a powerful search, and nicely organized review system, they have a single banner at the top. I don't know how well they police their reviews, but at first glance it seems effective.

dan,
I thank you fro the compliment for not selling out.
and yes I do check the ratings from time to time to see if anyone has to meny good ratings when they just added them selves that day. I have had to remove a cupple of hosts for adding false clames on ratewebhost.com before. But i did alow them to sign up again and i am still watching them them to this day.

the rating system I have running is automated and there is no way for me to go in a chnage them with out having to dig thure the sql data.

and I decided to only run one banner placement and not offer buttions or anything else like that becaue I want to help people find a good and reliable web host provider for there needs, and not my money needs.

thank you again
Jamenjaw

JaminJaw --

I didn't post it, Alec did, however thanks ;)

i just saw that sory alic

Originally posted by northernscum
If you're going to blast your competition, however, while placing halos over your own heads, you better be ready to back yourself up.

Couldnt have put it better myself ;)

I think Alec was just being a bit harsh with his trademark critism.

Originally posted by northernscum

Of course. What was I thinking? Couldn't have been the fact this thread was originally posted in the webhosting forum, not the website feedback forum, and consequently moved to an advertising forum. How positively absurd. :rolleyes:

If you're going to blast your competition, however, while placing halos over your own heads, you better be ready to back yourself up.

I guess it's difficult for you to believe that something can be done without exposure or money as the main motivator. As to the post being originally posted in the Webhosting Forum, I will accept the blame. I did not take the time to look through other categories or read the policies of this forum. But reading from the description of the Webhosting Forum: "Discussions on all aspects of web hosting including past experiences (both negative and positive), choosing a host, questions and answers, and other related subjects." ALL ASPECTS; CHOOSING A HOST; RELATED SUBJECTS. I'd say those are pretty vague on identifying the restrictions, and can be easily related to the discussion of Hosting Directories. Still, it's nobody else's fault and I can't do anything more to convince you that this was not an advertising attempt.

As to the "halos" comment, we have just started this thing and are in no way classifying ourselves as morally superior. It is simply a goal we are trying to achieve, something to strive for. You claim I "blasted the competition" when in reality I simply re-stated common knowledge, at least here. Everyone here knows most directories make money through unfair and dishonest means. Stating that without disclaimers shouldn't be classified as slander, or "blasting the competition."

By starting this thread, all we wanted was other people's opinions on the whole concept, and on our project in general. All YOU "northernscum" have done is put this thread, our site and everything else related down, without providing worthwhile suggestions or solutions. If you want to judge people and criticize their intentions without any basis other than a few lines of text, so be it. But at least have the decency to offer alternatives instead of proclaiming everything you read as illintentioned or coercive.

Originally posted by alec k.
... But reading from the description of the Webhosting Forum: "Discussions on all aspects of web hosting including past experiences (both negative and positive), choosing a host, questions and answers, and other related subjects." ALL ASPECTS; CHOOSING A HOST; RELATED SUBJECTS. I'd say those are pretty vague on identifying the restrictions, and can be easily related to the discussion of Hosting Directories.
They are vague on identifying restrictions. That's why there's a little button at the top called RULES. What did you expect, for a complete rundown of the board rules and regs to be posted in every category heading?
Originally posted by alec k.
Still, it's nobody else's fault and I can't do anything more to convince you that this was not an advertising attempt.Let's see... 1) you bashed existing Web hosting directories; 2) you stated you had a directory superior to others; 3) you posted a link to your site. Hey, doesn't sound like advertising to me! Anyone else? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by alec k.
As to the "halos" comment, we have just started this thing and are in no way classifying ourselves as morally superior.
You need to go back and re-read your original post. You basically said that existing Web hosting directories are flat out dishonest, but yours is not; how is that not calling yourself morally superior?
Originally posted by alec k.
All YOU "northernscum" have done is put this thread, our site and everything else related down, without providing worthwhile suggestions or solutions. If you want to judge people and criticize their intentions without any basis other than a few lines of text, so be it. But at least have the decency to offer alternatives instead of proclaiming everything you read as illintentioned or coercive. I get the impression that nornthernscum responded the way he did because he doesn't like hypocrisy. Neither do I.

You want a suggestion eh? Instead of coming to this board, ignoring the rules, throwing stones at your competition and claiming your superiority, why don't you try *contributing* something here? Your only posts have been in this thread, advertising and then trying to justify your actions. Since you seem to have an insider's knowledge of the Web hosting industry, maybe you could be *helpful* to some of those less knowledgeable than you.

Ok, well let's get away from the defensiveness of everything. I think the root problem of this thread is that people went to your site and didn't see anything different than the status quo, and thus honestly responded to that. If you had presented something that was truly unique then I think you would have gotten a different reaction.

I can tell you that I saw your post when there were no replies (I moved it to this forum at that point), and that *before* anyone gave you criticism, what I saw was more or less the beginning of what I've seen elsewhere, and I really couldn't understand your first post, as it related to being differnet, etc. Different site, yes, but not different in the way you claimed.

Again (emphasizing this), if you had presented something that was truly unique then I think you would have gotten a different reaction.

Originally posted by Chicken

Again (emphasizing this), if you had presented something that was truly unique then I think you would have gotten a different reaction.

Again i find myself agreeing with you Chicken! Twice in the same day???? The holidays must be having a strange effect on me this year :)

Me thinks it's just ma's secret-brew eggnog talkin' *hic* :buck:

To "Intelligent Hosting:

1) you bashed existing Web hosting directories;
In other words, if I said "politicians are corrupt" I'd be bashing the politicians even though it's a commonly accepted fact? Stating the obvious and bashing are not synonyms.

2) you stated you had a directory superior to others
Your statement is either a lie or a misunderstanding. Never did I say that or imply it. I said we have a commitment not to sell out like the other directories and we plan to live up to it. We are still a newborn baby, and haven't been around for long unlike the other places so it wouldn't make sense to compare them to us. We do PLAN and we do HOPE to become better, but as of yet, that remains to be seen.

3) you posted a link to your site
Next time I will post the URL without the link just to make it a tad more difficult for people to visit.

They are vague on identifying restrictions. That's why there's a little button at the top called RULES. What did you expect, for a complete rundown of the board rules and regs to be posted in every category heading?

They are vague on defining what exactly goes into the forum, so I felt it wasn't as restrictive.

You want a suggestion eh? Instead of coming to this board, ignoring the rules, throwing stones at your competition and claiming your superiority, why don't you try *contributing* something here? Your only posts have been in this thread, advertising and then trying to justify your actions. Since you seem to have an insider's knowledge of the Web hosting industry, maybe you could be *helpful* to some of those less knowledgeable than you.

Claiming my superiority? Insider's knowledge? Are you on hallucinagens? All I wanted was input and all you have to give is insults. I don't know why you feel your anger has to be a factor here. And for your information, I used to post on this forum a while back but the flame wars which occured whenever someone posts an opinion turned me off, much like what is happening here.

To Chicken:

I'm sorry I posted in the wrong category, and the only reason I'm defending myself instead of walking away is because it would prove them right. This was not an advertisement, this was an opinion with a feedback request, and I care enough about it not to let it be criticized for what it's not.

One of the main reasons I even posted here is to see if anyone had fresh ideas about directories that we could incorporate; we haven't gotten much so far. I understand you might not see anything different yet, again, that's why I posted here. But we are and will be working our asses off to make HC something original and something different.

alec k, all I can say is you should try and get someone you know to read your original post, and ask them what it gives off. Personally when I read it and then visited your site, I was almost angry due to what I discerned clearly as contradictions and hypocrisy.

Perhaps it's just a matter of how you worded the original thread, or perhaps you're trying to back peddle now. Either way the blame cannot be put on us, as we are not mind readers, and can only judge what you write.

George

hrmm I too checked out your site and found it a bit umm shal we say untruthful about what you said in your post.
i agree with the people who said let some friends read it.

I know this from frist hand experience I have been running ratewebhost for over a year now and did a few mistakes along they way.

now knowing this I give you full credit for making a site that will help out others find the host for them. I just wish more honest people like you would come along.

dont listen to the people who are cutting you down because they dont under stand what we have to put up with on a daly bases.

hosts requesting this and that. it gets to be to much some times and there has been a few times i just wanted to sell the site and the scripts out right to the frist buyer(no its not for sale)

I wish you the best of luck and anything i can do to help e-mail me and ill see what i can do.
jamenjaw

Alec, like I said in my first post, it sounds like you've got a good plan, you're just going to have to follow through with it if you want to stand out. If you can provide an honest, unbiased alternative directory, more power to you. Just be careful not to fall into the same traps that have caused many of the larger directories to lose credibility, or you won't be any better than the rest. My suggestion would be to stay away from paid spotlights (ie. "Best of the Best"), or, if you really want to keep it, at least post a disclaimer on the page stating that the hosts featured there have paid a $150 review fee to be considered, as well as an explanation as to how you determine who gets listed on that page. Ideally, "Best of the Best" would feature the hosts with the highest positive ratings, which is what I think the average visitor would expect from the title.

Since we are on the subject, I came across another new site, Findmyhosting.com, which is planning to launch a hosting directory with no advertising or banner ads, no paid spotlights, and no paid preferred listings, according to their home page. It would be great if they can follow through with these claims. For now though, it looks like jamenjaw's ratewebhost is one of the only directories that can come close to this claim.

Originally posted by Eric Radtke
Since we are on the subject, I came across another new site, Findmyhosting.com, which is planning to launch a hosting directory with no advertising or banner ads, no paid spotlights, and no paid preferred listings, according to their home page. It would be great if they can follow through with these claims. For now though, it looks like jamenjaw's ratewebhost is one of the only directories that can come close to this claim.

Eric,
I thank you for the nice ego boost you just gave me :D
I at one time wanted to do a spotlighted ad for webhosts but thought it would look crapy for lack of a better term to use right now. All i want to do is provied a plce for people to look for a host and tell the world how there host is the best on the world or dont even think about touching thoes guys with a ten foot poll :D

and in not trying to make "big bucks" on it if i only brake even with sales from advertising i am happy. All tho i do still work full time i dont need te extra cash but it is nice to be able to order an extra pizza from time to time :laugh:

alic,
like i said before the cash is very tempting but i do like the sajestion that was given ealer about the disclamer. and i am sorry if i sounded a bit harsh in my post from ealer

I think if all of the hosting community can get together and each write an article on the marketing ploys of ünlimited and such, we can really save a load of consumers from being cheated.

Maybe you can have a consumer's page with all this info, or an articles page.

Just my 2 cents worth :D

How did I miss this thread. I have to defend myself and am sorry if I am being to aggressive but these accusations are very strong and I feel that you are misleading most people that are reading this.

I am the head honcho at HostRecord.com the creator and current main webmaster.
I will be commenting mostly on your first post, and am sorry if I didn't read the rest, but you may reply to clear things up if I say something wrong.


Hosting companies practically run these places now, undermining consumers who are just starting to explore the web hosting world.

You can't say that "Hosting Companies", not all of us are so diluted that the reason for my site is to provide a wide variety of resources to help and guide the consumer in their choice for a proper web hosting service.

Either they bombard you with animated ads which are hard to avoid, or they rig the reviews and ratings by either flat-out writing them, or letting the host post fake testimonials praising themselves.

Ads animated or not is what keeps my site running and floating as a business. I have to date spent over $2,000 in online marketing alone. Not counting the time that I have spent working on promotion, design, programming, sales, support, help etc. It is a business website and I do intend to make money off the site someday hopefully, but my main interest has always been and will be to notify and provide info to those in need of web hosting help and resources.

I believe that there is a fine line between a page with bombarded ads and a page with tastefully placed ads. I do agree with you though some have main pages filled with ads alone.

I have never had the experienced of rig reviews, or maybe I don't know that I have. We do check every review we receive and check for correct email and websites that they are coming from. There is only so much you can do to make sure those reviews are coming from the correct people. I must also say that because you are generally speaking about hosting directories you next time define which ones you are talking about. I have never let any host post a review of their own company, that's just completely against what the site stands for.

I think your site has also been created as a business. If so you wouldn't be placing "Premium" listings in searches or so I think. You also said that most hosting directories showcases are filled only with ads. HostRecord.com lists hosts that match appropriate criteria for the showcase. You can have a special bold placement with images in the category but you don't need to pay to be listed in the showcase. It's free feature for registered hosts.

Again this all is about you stating remarks generally about ALL or MOST directories. And somewhat giving us good guys a bad name. So again next time you say something do specifically say who or what you are talking about.

Cheers