What do you think of a domain name with the word "Bay" and auction business?

Like BidBay.com and eBay.com. Do you think eBay.com is able to get BidBay.com not to use "Bay"? :cool:

I think it's just like "Soft" in the software industry.
Can Microsoft sue anyone who use "soft" as a part of their company names? I guess not!

Hello
We had a custromer with Mexbay.com which has nothing to do with auctions threatened by Ebay for trademark infringement.
They now claim the rights to all domains with the word "bay" in the title.
We also have a customer with kalahari.org (a site about the kalahari desert) who was threatened by Kalahari.net (an ISP) for infringing their trademark, even though Kalahari.net is named after the desert that kalahari.org is about.

Its a mad world.

Gordon

I also have heard of others purchasing domains that have the "bay" addition only to get ebays legal at their doors. The folks at ebay are mighty protective of their ebay ;)

Originally posted by GordonH

We also have a customer with kalahari.org (a site about the kalahari desert) who was threatened by Kalahari.net (an ISP) for infringing their trademark, even though Kalahari.net is named after the desert that kalahari.org is about.


How can you trademark a desert? :eek:

I once heard of a host threatening everyone with the letter "c" before the word "host" on their domain. :stickout

eBay seems to have the distinct idea now that they own the word "bay". I think the microsoft example is a good one. I think that anyone using the world "ebay" in a domain name is just pushing their luck though. But then, there are exceptions to this rule. Take BidBay.com for instance. Assuming BidBay haden't copied eBay's design and their logo, and harrassed eBay's users, do you think eBay would have won their case? Using the word "bay" in a domain name for an auction site seems to be pushing it, but what is everyone's opinion on it. What if someone were to start a completely different auction site under something like "uBay.com"? Then there are even more extended circumstances, for instance, what about the domain name www.SecureBay.com .... technically this has the word "ebay" in it, but the only word you hear is Bay.

There is a thread like this over on harvard law forums at: http://h2o.law.harvard.edu/viewThread.do?postId=1271

We actually do not permit customers to register domain names with ebay in them because I am sick of all the legal paperwork we get served with.

Originally posted by GordonH
We actually do not permit customers to register domain names with ebay in them because I am sick of all the legal paperwork we get served with.

What about with the word "bay"?

we allow bay, just not when it has the letter e in front of it!

We used to get people registering things like ebaywatcher.com or ebaythisthatandtheother.com
It never failed to cause trouble.

Every time we get one of these legal documents I have to brief our lawyers and inform our insurers. Its far too much work.

We also ban the word "escrow" as in my experience this is always linked with some sort of fraud and is probably paid for with a stolen card.

I wrote a subruotine that takes banned words from an array so I can change the list quite easily. Its a very handy addition.

Does anyone else have any comments on this thread? Cmon, I brought it out of a 2 year retirement to hear opinions. I'm doing research on trademark laws and specifically ebay.

A couple of years back I took the easy way out and had a name deleted (ending in "bay") per eBay's request. $8 was not worth the hassle.

Originally posted by timechange.com
A couple of years back I took the easy way out and had a name deleted (ending in "bay") per eBay's request. $8 was not worth the hassle.

What if it was a more valuable name like EastBay.com or something. Where is the line drawn, and do you think eBay has the rights to demand every single name with the word "bay" in it as their own? More importantly... assume someone started up a site with the word "bay" in the domain name and used it as an auctions site. Do you think this is a shut and closed case for ebay to take it away from them? Obviously ebay thinks this, since they threatened to sue www.alternabay.com for using it in their auctions site (a gay and lesbian auction site, in the sanfrancisco bay area). Eventually they changed their name to www.alternabid.com because they didn't have enough money to fight in court. What do you think of that?

They don't have the rights to every name, obviously. Intimidation is the key in such cases. Most often, the notifications are automated e.g. they scan lists of newly registered domains for a substring. Lame, I know, but it seems to work.

ebay is very litigious and they have a large number of lawyers on the payroll. It is not worth it choose another name

Originally posted by GordonH

We also have a customer with kalahari.org (a site about the kalahari desert) who was threatened by Kalahari.net (an ISP) for infringing their trademark, even though Kalahari.net is named after the desert that kalahari.org is about.

Its a mad world.

Gordon

your client might want to have a careful read of this case where this same company started an arbitration to try and get kalahari.com and lost in the most miserable fashion.

http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2001/d2001-0992.html

The case bordered on reverse domain hijacking in the end they found,

"In the view of the Panel, this Complaint should not have been filed. The Complainant ought to have known at the time of the pre-complaint communications between the parties that the Respondent was not a cybersquatter.

............................

If the Panel had been persuaded that the Complainant had deliberately set out to abuse this administrative procedure, the Panel would have had no hesitation in condemning the Complainant and upholding the Respondent’s claim of Reverse Domain Name Hijacking. As it is, the Panel is uncertain in the matter and consequently has no alternative but to put the ‘abuse’ down to incompetence."

Very interesting!
I have passed it on to him

Originally posted by timechange.com
They don't have the rights to every name, obviously. Intimidation is the key in such cases. Most often, the notifications are automated e.g. they scan lists of newly registered domains for a substring. Lame, I know, but it seems to work.

Well, it does work, because what ebay is doing is stopping people from using the domain name before they start. However, I feel what ebay is doing is wrong. Basically, anyone who registers a name with the word "bay" in it, is getting an e-mail from ebay TELLING them that they have infringed upon ebay's rights. However, ebay does not own the rights to the word "bay", they are just claiming to. As someone else mentioned, i'm sure this is stopping a lot of people from starting businesses up. I'm not entirely sure if what ebay is doing is legal. Surely there has to be some limit to it. Otherwise, I could send out an e-mail to every single domain name owner in the world claiming they are all violating my trademarks and demand they all turn them over. That would wrong in a number of ways obviously, but it's no different than what ebay is doing. I can understand them sending out emails to people who register names with "ebay" in them, but even that can cause problems, as someone who registers www.problembay.com or whatever isn't neccisarily infringing their rights.

I'm not a lawyer, but what ebay is doing just seems wrong. It would be like yahoo sending an email to every single person who registered a name with "hoo" in it.

I have a friend who registered ebay-racer.com. Not long after registration she received a threatening computor generated email from eBay's legal dept. I know there are 1000's of ebay related domains registered and eBay cannot do much to stop it! They own the rights to the way in which Ebay is written as a sinle word not the structre of the letters themselves. No one can own or trademark letter/s... e,b,a,y, E,B,A,Y. But they can trademark the letters in the form they are designed or colored (eBay). Coca Cola cannot own these words but they can own the way in which they are designed or written, as of Mc Donalds.

What suprises me is that these companies started with a single person idea. Now worth billions of dollars they will do everything and anything in their power to stop others establishing a future. They need to be reminded of where they came from. Sure if someone is using a word or name to inflict harm or fraud on their good name then they should be able to protect what they have built. But to send threataning emails to working class people for registering domain/s before knowing their intensions really stinks!

If eBay want to stop people from having certain domains? then they should do what everyone does and sit at a computor and register everyone of them. You are NOT breaking any laws if you use the same words in a different context. If it was against the law the domain names would be made unavailable to others. If you have a race horse or a speedboat named ebay then you can own and purchase ebay-racer, it's that simple.

Do not be bullied by these selfish greedy world destroying companies, they make so much money from the worlds people yet they give NOTHING back!

They would like us to beleive that they contribute small amounts of their billions to some charities?

How much money has eBay contributed to saving the Amazon jungle from destruction? Or helping prevent the extinction of our Polar Bears and the Silver Back Gorillas of Ruwanda. ZERO! and they won't stop until your childrens future is gone.

BUY AS MANY eBay RELATED DOMAIN NAMES AS POSSIBLE!

ie: (ebay-greed.com)

ITS TIME TO STAND UP TO THESE CORPORATE THUGS NOW!

THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU, OR YOUR FAMILIES FUTURE!

Things should NOT be as they are today.



Thanks

Wow, a 2-year old thread that's been resurrected by someone who doesn't seem
to understand (or probably care) that a trademark holder must protect their mark
or risk losing it. But I guess it depends on what side of the fence you choose to be
on.

When one doesn't have any rights to something to begin with, do they really have
anything to lose?

It is not worth it if you don't have the cash to defend your use of the name. The sad truth is the US legal system benefits those with the deepest pockets.

Even if ebay does not have rights to the dictionary word "bay" they can still sue you for using it (or any word that includes it) because in practice in civil court it is the defendant's obligatiobn to prove that the prosecution's case is invalid (i.e. in effect you are guilty until proven innocent).

Assuming ebay felt strongly enough about it, you would first receive a series of "cease and desist" letters and then they would serve a complaint (lawsuit) against you in court. You would then go to an attorney who would tell you it would cost at least $2,500 (probably a lot more) to file a response to ebay's action. If the attorney needs to appear in court then you will probably be looking at $5,000 and up just for the first appearance including the legal research prior to the hearing.

Even if ebay lost and you were awarded costs (unlikely) they could appeal. An appeals hearing will probably cost you another $7,500 - $10,000.

The Microsoft v. Lindows case was a classic example of how the corporation with deeper pockets (in that case of course MS) can get its way irrespective of right or wrong simply by outspending the defendant in court (in that case in multiple courts around the world).

But to send threataning emails to working class people for registering domain/s before knowing their intensions really stinks!

So it's a class struggle? :confused:

Ordinary working class people don't go cybersquatting and treading on other working class people's trademarks.

I have a friend who registered ebay-racer.com. Not long after registration she received a threatening computor generated email from eBay's legal dept. I know there are 1000's of ebay related domains registered and eBay cannot do much to stop it! They own the rights to the way in which Ebay is written as a sinle word not the structre of the letters themselves. No one can own or trademark letter/s... e,b,a,y, E,B,A,Y. But they can trademark the letters in the form they are designed or colored (eBay). Coca Cola cannot own these words but they can own the way in which they are designed or written, as of Mc Donalds.

What suprises me is that these companies started with a single person idea. Now worth billions of dollars they will do everything and anything in their power to stop others establishing a future. They need to be reminded of where they came from. Sure if someone is using a word or name to inflict harm or fraud on their good name then they should be able to protect what they have built. But to send threataning emails to working class people for registering domain/s before knowing their intensions really stinks!

If eBay want to stop people from having certain domains? then they should do what everyone does and sit at a computor and register everyone of them. You are NOT breaking any laws if you use the same words in a different context. If it was against the law the domain names would be made unavailable to others. If you have a race horse or a speedboat named ebay then you can own and purchase ebay-racer, it's that simple.

Do not be bullied by these selfish greedy world destroying companies, they make so much money from the worlds people yet they give NOTHING back!

They would like us to beleive that they contribute small amounts of their billions to some charities?

How much money has eBay contributed to saving the Amazon jungle from destruction? Or helping prevent the extinction of our Polar Bears and the Silver Back Gorillas of Ruwanda. ZERO! and they won't stop until your childrens future is gone.

BUY AS MANY eBay RELATED DOMAIN NAMES AS POSSIBLE!

ie: (ebay-greed.com)

ITS TIME TO STAND UP TO THESE CORPORATE THUGS NOW!

THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU, OR YOUR FAMILIES FUTURE!

Things should NOT be as they are today.



Thanks






Welcome to the corporate world my friend.

I didn't realize it was originally a Dec. 2001 threas when I posted.

Ah well, its nice to know some things haven't changed in 5 years.

YES people are like sheep! they need a sheppard to guide them no matter how ****** the road may be.

This reminded me the Dell case.

Paul Dell (http://www.dellwebsites.com/), a web site designer, is being sued by Dell Computers for trademark infringement.

What is the next? To sue their grand grand parents to take "Dell" as a name?
Blah!

eBay seems to have the distinct idea now that they own the word "bay".

I want eBay to go after thepiratebay.org ^_^

This thread needs resurrecting.

Is ebay contending that since the 'bay' refers to a virtual internet location then the word is not general since the merchandise is not physically stored online? Yet the merchandise is held in some physical location during the auction.

This is analogous to the first person to use the word 'dump' in an internet name, for a disposal business, contending 'dump' is not general for an internet name since the dumping is not done on the internet sight.

Is ebay contending that since the 'bay' refers to a virtual internet location then the word is not general since the merchandise is not physically stored online?

They're contending their mark is famously distinctive for providing online auction services. One can argue or opine of putting it another way as providing a virtual internet location to auction their products or what-not, but it's eBay who defines that subject to the governing authority's approval.

Uniquely famous trademarks like eBay happen to have the strongest form of trademark protection, and the chances of people confusing a similar site with theirs is unfortunately great. Many of the sites eBay went after showed similar but potentially infringing use.

Somebody goofed somewhere.

Domain names shouldn't fall under these stupid trademark laws.

If you want the name register the dam thing!

Domain names shouldn't fall under these stupid trademark laws.

Yeah well, one can thank those cybersquatters in the late '90s-early 21st century for that.