Hello Everyone,

We own a music website. We get around 150,000 daily uniques. We have 2 very similar offers to upgrade our HTML system.

1) is to php
2) is to asp

I like the asp company a lot better. They seem to know what they are doing and have an excellent client list. Could you please let me know what your thoughts are. What is better? We are very concerned with speed of loading. And overall costs of maintaining the database.

Thanks
Q8Man

You asked a very loaded question - and you will probably get a very large debate on this.

People have their preferences - some like ASP & some like PHP. If you like the ASP company better - choose them.

Most of our clients do not care if the software is built in PHP or ASP. If they want it in PHP though, we have a person that we refer out to to help them answer their questions.

As far as the database - are you going to be using MS Access, MSSQL, mySQL? There are some costs involved usually with MSSQL. That might be a factor as well

There is an article on slashdot.org at the moment about PHP5 vs ASP.net from the Oracle website, it's a bit biased towards PHP but it's not bad.

There's no comparison between the current version of PHP and ASP. PHP is far more better. But if you're going to compare it with ASP.Net, then there's the game.

I am going to follow the article and slashdot.org. Check it you too.

I will have to agree. Alot of people thing ASP is better than PHP because PHP is so easy to code. However, I've seen PHP perform just as much as I've seen ASP if not more. More people are going for PHP these days as its easies to code and works really well with the MySQL database.

I would choose PHP, however i would base my assumption on future aspects. For example is hosting for the ASP extension cheaper than the php extension. Or is it easy to find a hosting company that supports .asp . But if you do go with ASP i do advise that you go with a windows web server environment.

I prefer PHP.

This really is a pointless debate.

First of all, PHP and ASP are two very different things.

ASP (Active Server Pages) -- is a technology (you can think of it as a framework) that Microsoft provides. You can write ASP pages in any number of languages. Most are written in VBScript.

PHP on the other hand is a language, not a framework. You can write PHP pages in only PHP, nothing else. It provides libraries to other components (like a MySQL library, a MSSQL library, etc).

There is no "best" language for anything. The only thing I will say is that if your deployment platform is Microsoft-based, then you have a definite advantage if you go with ASP (actually, you would better off going with ASP.NET). For Linux/Unix based platforms, it really depends on what talent you have inhouse. If you have a resident PHP programmer, go with PHP, if you have a PERL progammer, use PERL.

The only reason PHP has an advantage is that it was designed from the ground up to be used on the web, whereas PERL was designed for parsing files, etc.

As far as the thread starter is concerned, you already seem to have found a company that you are comfortable with. I would suggest that you go with them. If you are concerned with costs, note that MySQL has no licensing costs, MSSQL, Oracle, etc. all have licensing requirements.

Originally posted by fyrestrtr
This really is a pointless debate.

First of all, PHP and ASP are two very different things.

ASP (Active Server Pages) -- is a technology (you can think of it as a framework) that Microsoft provides. You can write ASP pages in any number of languages. Most are written in VBScript.


That certainly used to be the case, but with the advent of ASP.net there are actually ASP.net specific tags which are really their own language (although very limited in capabilities). VBScript was the most common in ASP but it doesn't exist in ASP.net but is VB.net instead.

Yeah that is true. However, I think the op wanted to know about ASP vs. PHP.

ASP.NET vs. PHP -- now that's something else ;)

ASP.NET vs. PHP5 -- whoa now :D

Originally posted by Rich2k
There is an article on slashdot.org at the moment about PHP5 vs ASP.net from the Oracle website, it's a bit biased towards PHP but it's not bad.

ASP.NET is NOT ASP, they're quite different things.

My personal preference is PHP, having learned both languages I never use ASP, mainly because it's quite restricted in the way that to have it on a linux system and have it work properly is too much hassle.

Originally posted by N9ne
ASP.NET is NOT ASP, they're quite different things.

My personal preference is PHP, having learned both languages I never use ASP, mainly because it's quite restricted in the way that to have it on a linux system and have it work properly is too much hassle.

I know that but no one should be considering starting a NEW project in ASP. It has been superseeded with ASP.net which frankly is far more powerful.

Originally posted by Rich2k
I know that but no one should be considering starting a NEW project in ASP. It has been superseeded with ASP.net which frankly is far more powerful.

That's true, and ASP.NET is very good, and in many aspects it's better than PHP.

This debate deals with ASP vs. PHP though and I'd say PHP wins that in my opinion.

ASP vs PHP

Honestly... NO MAJOR DIFFERENCES.

You can do just as much in either scripting language.

Hi all,

When you say ASP you are eventually referring to ASP 3.0 and, it is indeed a lot less powerful than PHP5.

Now if you ask ASP.Net and PHP5... It's very different...
First of all the .Net framework languages have a bigger learning curve, whereas PHP is just plain and simple. To build a decent piece of software with .Net you need a lot more learning and practice than with PHP. So, you will want to hand out your project to someone experienced in it.

I really don't want to enter much on the debate PHP5 vs ASP.Net as, in my opinion, they are similar yet .Net is a lot more scalable and, as such, a lot more suitable for high-end purposes.
If you search in Google you'll see a lot of ASP.Net vs PHP4 results, some of them begging not to compare until PHP5 is not out because it's unfair... If you dig-in a bit you'll see that .Net community can claim the same when they want to compare ASP.Net 1.1 (current version) with PHP5 instead of ASP.Net 2.0 coming out soon... But that's a whole new topic.

.Net can be more costly than PHP but you usually get a better piece of software, if it's in .Net as you can scale up a lot more... If you have a host that offers both .net and SQL server, you can make your final software more powerful and code it faster than in PHP.

As for performance: MySQL is indeed fast in simple operations but, it only performs simple operations to be honest (MySQL 5 should be better)... If your business is database dependant MSSQL \ Oracle \ Firebird are the main choices.
ASP.Net is faster than PHP after it’s used for the first time, if you compile the code-behind. That’s a very interesting decision factor by itself…

Web hosting prince difference is not that huge these days, it's very little in fact.
When it comes to server security it depends mostly on who’s administrating the boxes. There are indeed a lot of worms etc against Windows machines but, most of them, are 99% of the times stopped by good system administrators and, there’s always a fast response from Microsoft.
Linux is not 100% bullet proof, it has it’s own holes as well so, administrators take a crucial role.

With your amount of traffic I would go for .Net and SQL Server (check www.infuseweb.com and www.judohost.com for .Net + SQL Server hosting). If you were a smaller site and with no expectations of growing I would, of course, suggest PHP5.


Best regards,
DBA

PS: This post is based in my personal opinion and development experience… If you have a different one try make a constructive suggestion instead of a simple cheap flame.

If you were a smaller site and with no expectations of growing I would, of course, suggest PHP5.

I would not recommend anyone use PHP5 in a production environment untill the first bugfix release is out.

Originally posted by fyrestrtr
I would not recommend anyone use PHP5 in a production environment untill the first bugfix release is out.

Yes, you are totaly right. I was assuming that decision + development + test time would be enough for a new version of php5 to come out :)

Thanks for poiting it out anywayt.

Regards

I agree, php5 is not ready for "stable" usage. It's just flat out not. Whoever declared it stable was off their rocker ;)

That aside, in the php v asp discussion:
It's really pretty simple, honestly. Do youwant to run primarily on Windows servers or Linux. While ASP may (may) run under a Linux environment , it will not be a true ASP environment, and there will most likely be issues involved with this. Php on the other hand has been successfully compiled and tested on both Windows and Linux.

Ease of programming? I'd have to say php hands down. The ref's and docs to php functions and the like are just astounding, and the examples are wonderful.

By all means PHP. Not only it is an excellent language; it is also way more maintenable than most of ASP languages (such as the atrocity called VBScript). It also unties your hands as you will not be dependent on licensing from Microsoft. You won't have to pray for the critical security bugfixes to appear. If your underlying database backend is complicated, you can save yourself some major pain and go with PostgreSQL. Hell, a fast dedicated Linux server can be rented out for $60/month these days. Install it once, and have some guy maintain it from time to time.

Hey Evil, I agree, I would think the web server OS is in PHP's favour being free and all. Just how stable is chili?

I've been told it's allright, but it's not a TRUE ASP environment , thusly making it a very non recommended product. Also, if you'll look @ the prices for it, I think you'll probably think twice. Sun wants 500 just for the ASP capabilities alone, and even then it's only guaranteed to work on Solaris and older redhat boxen.

If it's just for one website, it's really not worth it.

i have trust in php

I don't know the scale of your project.
But i preffer to use PHP for most projects - it's more faster and stable. Also there are a lot of additional companents, for ASP most oof them don't free.

Originally posted by evilmeow
By all means PHP. Not only it is an excellent language; it is also way more maintenable than most of ASP languages (such as the atrocity called VBScript). It also unties your hands as you will not be dependent on licensing from Microsoft. You won't have to pray for the critical security bugfixes to appear. If your underlying database backend is complicated, you can save yourself some major pain and go with PostgreSQL. Hell, a fast dedicated Linux server can be rented out for $60/month these days. Install it once, and have some guy maintain it from time to time.

ASP is the same pain to maintain than PHP. Now ASP.Net or the whole .Net framework is a whole new story.
PHP is a scripting language in its essence. For the more they try to implement better OOP, .Net / Java etc is OOP heaven... And every programmer knows how easier it is to maintain a fully OOP language compared to PHP / ASP (prior to .net)

As for security: as if Linux was, at any given moment, security bug free...
Microsoft is a lot better these days, as they finally taking security as a top priority.

Most people try to ignore the fact that Linux has security problems just like Windows, when it comes to well administrated servers. The fact that Windows is a lot more used than Linux makes it go unnoticed...

I'd like to thank you all for your responses. You've been a great help to us. Because of your very much valued participation, I have fewer and more focused points to discuss with the 2 companies. And a lot more learning to do.

All of the discussion so far was aiming at the programming aspects of the ASP.NET vs PHP5.

Is there anything else in terms of server requirements?
Is ASP.NET a lot harder to manage on a day to day basis?

The reason I'm asking this is because I once heard someone saying… ASP.NET requires at least triple the server specifications as would a PHP application, For example if a PHP application requires 1 GB of RAM, then an ASP.NET application would require 3 GB of RAM at least.

Does anyone have any idea if this is true?

Thanks

Originally posted by Q8man
I'd like to thank you all for your responses. You've been a great help to us. Because of your very much valued participation, I have fewer and more focused points to discuss with the 2 companies. And a lot more learning to do.

All of the discussion so far was aiming at the programming aspects of the ASP.NET vs PHP5.

Is there anything else in terms of server requirements?
Is ASP.NET a lot harder to manage on a day to day basis?

The reason I'm asking this is because I once heard someone saying… ASP.NET requires at least triple the server specifications as would a PHP application, For example if a PHP application requires 1 GB of RAM, then an ASP.NET application would require 3 GB of RAM at least.

Does anyone have any idea if this is true?

Thanks

Hello again Q8man,

"Is ASP.NET a lot harder to manage on a day to day basis?"
No, the projects built under the .Net framework are very easy to manage, mostly due to the strong Object Oriented Programming. It is alot easyer to manage than PHP5, for example.
In ASP.Net you get a built-in presentation / logic separation, whereas in PHP you need to use third party software to try acheive something similiar but, in my opinion, not as good.

"Is there anything else in terms of server requirements?"
A Windows box requiers more resourses than a Linux box, providing the same services. As for .Net itself, it's faster than PHP5 in the end but, it takes a bit more memory... Don't think it's even close to tripe... That would be Java :)

Best regards.

ASP.NET requires at least triple the server specifications as would a PHP application, For example if a PHP application requires 1 GB of RAM, then an ASP.NET application would require 3 GB of RAM at least.

I'm also a web developer, and tried both platforms. Honestly, I cann't say there is a "1 to 3 ratio". And I think, in most cases, it depends the task of your script. But in my experience, PHP is much more faster and uses less resources than ASP & ASP.NET.

Of course, when you compare these alternatives, you need to make this comparetion between PHP on Linux and ASP.NET (on Windows). Maybe ASP.NET can be more efficient against PHP, if you use windows server. (Although I saw a report saying PHP is faster than ASP, even on windows servers).

If I'm chosing to develop an application I'd always choose PHP over ASP, and I'd usually choose it over ASP.Net.

However, the OP isn't actually developing the application himself. He's asking which company to choose, and you can't really choose on the basis of server technology (unless cost factors in to it). If you like the company that's using ASP, go with them.

I agree with most everything that has been said.

I would add though, that ASP code is far easier to manage if working with multiple developers. Especially in .net enviorment with .net tools.

This colaboration tool has saved us a bunch of times...

Biased to MS products. ( Have to be, I make a living at it)

Natron

I believe that the most critical point there is:

Sticking to the open source (Php, MySQL, Linux)

versus

Relying on the proprietary technology
(.NET, MsSQL, Windows)

The larger and less flexible company, the more sense the second decision makes. And vice versa.

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Php, SEO, webdesign (http://www.scisoft.cz/webdesign-cz/webdesign.php)

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I like php better my hosting company doesn't seem to support all the functions of asp and php seems more reliable

I would go with PHP but not 5.0. Its not stable yet.
I think a lot of times the difference between two languages will be the programmer, not so much the language.

Heh.... The best system is well known system. If guys know ASP very well they will make excellent scripts - quick and reliable. If guys know PHP very well, np, please let him do it. So, choose most known person, I guess - both technology are very good. I like ASP.NET, but usually PHP programming need less time. Sorry, i don't know why ;) May be PHP programmer has more expirence.

Personally I think PHP is faster and easier to use than ASP, but then again if the PHP company doesnt seem to know what they are doing then, ASP might be a better investment.