I've contacted (and been contacted by) several different web host directories and portals. While I'd certainly welcome the opportunity to advertise with one or more of them - I don't believe that it is prudent to spend hundreds of dollars on ad space that may or may not bring a return.

So, here is my challenge to the Web Hosting Portals. Prove to us that you are worth advertising with. If you are such a great place for a web host to advertise, you should be more than willing to prove it.

We have an affiliate program, and we would welcome a hosting portal to sign up. We pay 15% recurring commissions on all sales refered. If your Web Hosting Portal is such a great advertising media - it should drive business to our company right? If it does - we make the sale and you get a 15% commission. Theoretically, if you are driving qualified leads to us you should be able to make at least as much as you would have charged us in advertising space. If you don't then - well - perhaps you are charging too much for your ad space.

Any takers for this challenge? If so, sign up with our Affiliate Program:

http://www.assortedinternet.com/hosting/affiliates/

If any hosting directories or portals do take this challenge (I don't expect any will), I will report back to WHT what kind of results they produce...

Take care,

Brian

Interesting idea....

I do think that most of the directories do not have much traffic and that advertising is a waste of money... but maybe they prove me to be wrong :D

Thanks. :)

I do believe that some (emphasis on some) of the directories get a lot of traffic. But, what I am not so sure about is if that traffic actually results in sales for the people that advertise.

So far no takers...

Take care,

Brian


Originally posted by addaction
Interesting idea....

I do think that most of the directories do not have much traffic and that advertising is a waste of money... but maybe they prove me to be wrong :D

Originally posted by bteeter
So, here is my challenge to the Web Hosting Portals. Prove to us that you are worth advertising with.
Yes, but can you prove to them that your site can convert? Furthermore, you're offering 15% recurring while many other programs are willing to part with 2 - 3x their plan price up front. Therefore, can you prove that your service is so superior that your clients will stay with you for an average of > 1 year?

The way I see it, the risks involved in advertising cut both ways.

There aren't many hosting companies that won't offer an affliate program and there's nothing special about your that going make the site take a risk. Most web hosting directories won't accept affliate programs because:

1) There is no way to verify if a sales has gone through, you rely on the honesty of the company, and any frequent visitor to WHT will realise that there are many companies that aren't honest.
1b) Most people will visit a site, have a look round the competitors and then come back and purchase the service some other time, some people takes months to decide on hosting.
2) Branding... You pay for branding as well, once people see your company in lights at tophosts,webhostdir etc... they'll remember it, whilst they may not be looking for hosting they may suggest your services to others or they may purchase your service at a later date.
3) We send you the click-throughs its upto you to turn it into a sale, we don't have any control over your product and pricing, heck if I we're to even consider an affliate program I'd make sure the product was hot stuff.

Originally posted by MattF
There aren't many hosting companies that won't offer an affliate program and there's nothing special about your that going make the site take a risk. Most web hosting directories won't accept affliate programs because:

1) There is no way to verify if a sales has gone through, you rely on the honesty of the company, and any frequent visitor to WHT will realise that there are many companies that aren't honest.
1b) Most people will visit a site, have a look round the competitors and then come back and purchase the service some other time, some people takes months to decide on hosting.
2) Branding... You pay for branding as well, once people see your company in lights at tophosts,webhostdir etc... they'll remember it, whilst they may not be looking for hosting they may suggest your services to others or they may purchase your service at a later date.
3) We send you the click-throughs its upto you to turn it into a sale, we don't have any control over your product and pricing, heck if I we're to even consider an affliate program I'd make sure the product was hot stuff.

Couldn't have said it better..

All in all the idea sounds to me like an attack at an attempt to get free advertising, 15% aint chicken scratch anyways. Why not ask for something constructive that could help us all LIKE asking for some statistics from the directorys or people who adv on them in regards to click throughs, sign ups etc... That would help everyone on the board not just YOU.

Actually in the last 2 months I have been operational I have had quite a few sign ups and a LOT of traffic from webhosting directories - just listing - no ads...

And I have focussed only on webhostdir and hostpulse - with findsp I forgot my username and every time I ask them they just send me my password!

So I do think that web hosting directories help.

In a similar vein how would we hosts like it if some ecommerce shop wants to host with us and says you take x% of all our sales?

My metrics is, each directory can give you about 2-3 sign ups a month [for small players like me] just by listing.. I am sure advertisers watch their RoI like hawks or else this eCom bubble wouldn't have burst...

I have a customer from CA who found me on the 14th page [1400+listing] of google and wanted a very specific email solution and is now a very happy customer!

I think it's a matter of luck and pluck!

Just my 5c! [well it's XMas and the foll is in a generous mood!]

Happy Hols
Balaji

Originally posted by MattF
There aren't many hosting companies that won't offer an affliate program and there's nothing special about your that going make the site take a risk. Most web hosting directories won't accept affliate programs because:

1) There is no way to verify if a sales has gone through, you rely on the honesty of the company, and any frequent visitor to WHT will realise that there are many companies that aren't honest.


Sure there is. Many affiliate programs are administered by 3rd parties. In that case you don't have to trust the host, just the 3rd party.

Ours is self-administered, but we welcome our affiliates to "test us". Visit the affiliate link, check the change in your stats. Put in a purchase, once your account is created, the sale is registered and you get an email.


1b) Most people will visit a site, have a look round the competitors and then come back and purchase the service some other time, some people takes months to decide on hosting.


Cookies can be set to last years. If a visitor comes from your directory, there are ways to track that - even if the purchase is months later.


2) Branding... You pay for branding as well, once people see your company in lights at tophosts,webhostdir etc... they'll remember it, whilst they may not be looking for hosting they may suggest your services to others or they may purchase your service at a later date.


Branding? Sure if you've got thousenads and thousands of dollars to spend. Small companies like us don't have the cash to throw away on branding. How many .com companies that focused on their "brand" still exist today? eToys? Webvan? Pets.com? No, no, and no. Amazon.com? OK, yes they are still around - for now.


3) We send you the click-throughs its up to you to turn it into a sale, we don't have any control over your product and pricing, heck if I we're to even consider an affliate program I'd make sure the product was hot stuff.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Clearly you don't understand affiliate programs - or advertising in general. If your advertising doesn't deliver a customer who is at least interested enough to seriously consider a purchase then your referal is WORTHLESS! If you've done a good job of preping the customer for what products, services and prices we (or some other web hosting company) offer then the referal isn't worth a lot.

This is the same reason that banners get 0.5% click through and of that 0.5% click through less than 1% convert. Customers who click banners barely have a clue what the product is they are going to see - they feel "pitched" - and they are defensive about making a purchase before they even get there.

--

To speak to some other points raised. 15% is not a lot no. But it is a recuring commission. If the customer sticks around for a year or longer, you keep getting paid for a year. Sure we could give out a one time commission of 2-3x a monthly fee - but it isn't wise for us since customers may not stick around - and it doesn't create a lasting value for the affiliate.

--

The point of this thread is that the risk of advertising on a Hosting Directory is completly on the advertiser. There is no guarantee whatsoever that the purchaser of said advertiser is getting a value for their money at all.

This is not a partnership of businesses. An affiliate relationship is. By making it WORTH THEIR WHILE to drive real sales to the hosting company, I think you would see far more benefit advertising with the directories.

--

Oh, and an update - no one has taken the challenge yet. Wow, I'm shocked!

Take care,

Brian

Originally posted by bteeter
ABSOLUTELY NOT. Clearly you don't understand affiliate programs - or advertising in general. If your advertising doesn't deliver a customer who is at least interested enough to seriously consider a purchase then your referal is WORTHLESS! If you've done a good job of preping the customer for what products, services and prices we (or some other web hosting company) offer then the referal isn't worth a lot.

The point of this thread is that the risk of advertising on a Hosting Directory is completly on the advertiser. There is no guarantee whatsoever that the purchaser of said advertiser is getting a value for their money at all.

Oh, and an update - no one has taken the challenge yet. Wow, I'm shocked!
Brian, I'm not surprised that no one has taken you up on your offer, not sure why you thought they would either however.

I also think people understand affiliate programs (and advertising in general), and that a combative attitude isn't going to get people to rush to even consider what you are asking for.

When you are talking about hosting directories (in general, this is not to be specific to one or another, nor relate to the effectiveness of one or another), you are talking about targeted advertising. It is up to you to research which ones actually get visitors who are interested in finding hosting, and advertise there.

I don't think you can reasonably go into all the aspects of what makes a campaign work or not on each directory, but in short, if the directory is well know and gets traffic from people looking for hosting, then they have the advantage, not you (they have the product). It is unreasonable to expect them to place links on their site to your unknown company, with only the expectation of a return if the sale converts. You couldn't get advertising this way from any media source.

Affiliate programs seem to work best when one site is very well known and trusted by the visitors (say Yahoo.com for example), and their affiliate is also well known (say Amazon.com). They also seem to work well when a person offer a complimentary service (such as graphics work, or whatever), and the audience may need hosting for the pages that the graphics are designed for. Generally, the site isn't geared towards the web hosting crowd, and this would be a bonus.

Findsp might be interested in an affiliate program from a web design software company, to sell UDezineit II off their site, but you are asking for a piece of the bread and butter of a hosting directory site... the ads, for a hosting company. You just aren't going to be offered a showcase spot for a hosting site based on an affiliate program. If you offered credit cards, or other things that the site visitors use, but yet weren't the main focus of the site, then maybe, but otherwise...

bteeter: as Chicken already said with other words, shouting at people will not force them to listen. I understand your intention, personally I want some answers from those directories, too - but I would ask them in a more polite way.

Clearly you don't understand affiliate programs - or advertising in general.

Have you ever heard about a deal between the New York Times and an advertiser (e.g. for cheese) that NYT will get the money for the 1-page-ad only if they can show proof that x thousand customers bought cheese because of the ad?

15% is not a lot no. But it is a recuring commission. If the customer sticks around for a year or longer

Yes, you said it - if the customer stays. But if he leaves because of crappy service (no offense) they won't get much money (maybe 15% x 2 month x $9.95?).

There is no guarantee whatsoever that the purchaser of said advertiser is getting a value for their money at all.

And there will be no guarantee ever. But personally I would like to see some numbers from the Hosting Directories, too.

Originally posted by MattF
There aren't many hosting companies that won't offer an affliate program and there's nothing special about your that going make the site take a risk. Most web hosting directories won't accept affliate programs because:

1) There is no way to verify if a sales has gone through, you rely on the honesty of the company, and any frequent visitor to WHT will realise that there are many companies that aren't honest.
1b) Most people will visit a site, have a look round the competitors and then come back and purchase the service some other time, some people takes months to decide on hosting.
2) Branding... You pay for branding as well, once people see your company in lights at tophosts,webhostdir etc... they'll remember it, whilst they may not be looking for hosting they may suggest your services to others or they may purchase your service at a later date.
3) We send you the click-throughs its up to you to turn it into a sale, we don't have any control over your product and pricing, heck if I we're to even consider an affliate program I'd make sure the product was hot stuff.

Here here! Well said Matt. We've tried affiliate programs in the past with some of the bigger hosts, but unfortunately we soon realised that the sales process isn’t quite as simple as they would make you believe.

1. Your dependant on their web site navigation to ensure a sale as a result of a click through from your site. You should give it a try some time, you wouldn’t believe how difficult some of these guys make purchasing their services.

2. When your talking about the higher end purchases (which is where the real money is on affiliate programs) often the purchaser will need telephone support prior to making the purchase. This is where you lose out on cookie based tracking.

3. Third party programs such as befree and commission junction have now restricted their cookie tracking to as little as 30 days. This effectively blows any chance of tracking a large scale purchase as they are rarely made within a 30 day period.

4. The in house sales teams don’t actually want to acknowledge the fact that the sale came as a result of a referral from an affiliate as they receive lower commission from these sales than those generated from their own web site.

All in all the cards are heavily stacked in favour of those running the programs. The result has been poor penetration of these schemes into the larger web sites.

Just to provide a consumer's point of view, there is such a thing as branding with internet ads, and it should be worth something. If you were to ask me to list a bunch of dedicated servers off the top of my head, a lot would be from ads I've seen somewhere, mostly TopHost, Hostsearch, Hostindex etc.

Affiliate programs, especially with the highly niche and lucrative advertising market that is web hosting, is probably not worth running with most hosting directories. Affiliate programs require that you follow a strict course of action (click through using specific link, sign up within designated time frame etc) to record a sale. Personally when I see an ad, I often just type the URL of the company directly in the address bar, bypassing the link. I want to check out the company in general first, not some showcased page. The ad in this case did work, just not the way an affiliate ad would want it to. In fact, my current host I signed up through an ad, but indirectly in this manner.

Brian, I suspect you'll have more takers of your offer by more generalized webmaster sites, and not directories. Personally I think CPA ads in general put webmasters at a disadvantage 90% of the time, but that's another topic.

Well, I must say I didn't expect this kind of reaction to my challenge. It is unfortunate that Affiliate Programs have such a bad rap in the hosting industry. That will certainly be one of the challenges that we will have to face going forward.

In the end, I think directoreis like FindMyHosting.com - which have already adopted the model I suggest - will be the ones that customers favor. Time will tell I suppose.

Take care,

Brian

Originally posted by GeorgeC

Brian, I suspect you'll have more takers of your offer by more generalized webmaster sites, and not directories. Personally I think CPA ads in general put webmasters at a disadvantage 90% of the time, but that's another topic.

GeorgeC,

You hit the nail right on the head. Advertisers are at a disadvantage most of the time - and that is really the point I wanted to bring up and address with this thread. Pay for performance is the only model that is truly fair for advertiser and advertising provider.

Second, many of our affiliates run Webmaster focused web sites. They have seen a fair amount of success, and I think they will continue to do so. The bigger players, ie. Web Hosting Directories, are making so much money with their advertising that they won't touch us.

Its far better and easier for them to take a banner ad for $400/month than it is for them to really try to help a merchant make a sale through an affiliate relationship. I can't blame them for taking the easy road of high profits and little effort. If I was in the same position, I would do the same.

Take care,

Brian

Originally posted by bteeter


GeorgeC,

You hit the nail right on the head. Advertisers are at a disadvantage most of the time - and that is really the point I wanted to bring up and address with this thread. Pay for performance is the only model that is truly fair for advertiser and advertising provider.
Brian

Actually I was arguing for webmasters, but I guess my point applies both ways. For the webmaster, it's a disadvantage to run CPA ads over CPM, while for the advertiser, it's the other way around. I think most people are aware of that, so the trick is to find some middle ground both parties can agree on.

Bottom line it's a market driven situation. Web hosting directories who are currently handling CPM ads, why should they touch anything else? For smaller, webmaster sites that don't have a choice, they'll gladly take anything. Vilifying the former is not productive, and won't get one anywhere.

We advertised with a directory once. We got many inquires but not too many sign ups. There are sooo many hosts on one directory that advertising doesnt seem to help that much. Also, click thrus were VERY low.

Originally posted by bteeter

In the end, I think directoreis like FindMyHosting.com - which have already adopted the model I suggest - will be the ones that customers favor. Time will tell I suppose.

Take care,

Brian

Brian I'm not sure that it will be as clear cut as you suggest. I don't doubt that the future will see hybrids of both business models working together. Web Masters cannot be held ultimately responsible for whether a sale is generated from a referral from their site. There are far to many other factors to consider (as stated earlier by Matt). Regardless of what you may believe is the easy world of running a web host directory, we do work closely with our clients on trying to maximise their advertising return. If we didn’t we'd have run out of customers long ago.

For a new business model to emerge it must be able to compensate web masters for the use of their advertising space and yet be cost effective for advertisers. I think this has already started to happen as banner rates have fallen over 30% in the last 12 months its evidence that the market is re-pricing ad space to be more cost effective.

You must understand in the same way that a large part of your own product pricing is dictated to by outside forces, such as reseller rates and office rental, so are the larger directories. Sure some of the smaller ones are one man operations with plenty of profit margin to play around with, but that’s because they spend virtually nothing on advertising their own site, relying instead on word of mouth and the occasional visit from the google bot. We cant rely on that level of traffic and neither can the other larger directories. Tophosts employs 15 fulltime staff and we have 9 fulltime and 5 partime to cater for our traffic levels.

So please don’t believe for a second that running a directory is easy street. We're just as accountable to our own customers, as you are to your own, and you might have noticed there are more people looking to buy hosting than there are looking to advertiser hosting products.

I didn’t mean this to sound like a rant, I just wanted to convey a point of view which had been largely absent (except Matt).

Hi,

I am willing to accept a hybrid campaign, however, like most hosting directories, it seems to us that risking a lot of ad space which may not even generate a single penny for us is not really worth the risk.

I'd accept something like a low cost CPC campaign coupled with a CPA offer, but not a CPA offer alone.

However, relying on the honest of a company, in a sea of dishonest companies, is a tough choice to make, which is why I, and many other hosting directories/owners of hosting directories, feel very much uneasy with such a campaign.

Originally posted by Refsoft


I'd accept something like a low cost CPC campaign coupled with a CPA offer, but not a CPA offer alone.

I've seen a lot talked about these style ad campaigns and i think theyre an excellent compromise as they cater for both branding and performance. the only down side as with all CPC style advertising is that the web master is dependant on the design and advertising copy writing abilities of their advertiers to make any profit.

Originally posted by James Cross


I've seen a lot talked about these style ad campaigns and i think theyre an excellent compromise as they cater for both branding and performance. the only down side as with all CPC style advertising is that the web master is dependant on the design and advertising copy writing abilities of their advertiers to make any profit.

James,

I've been doing CPC ads for a while now. We usually have no problem with low CTR ads or high CTR ads since they are all prepaid before the campaign launches and capped at a certain amount of clicks. It's just a mater of time before the clicks are expended and the campaign is over.

Regards,
Dan

I appreciate they are always ultimately delivered but it can make forecasting ad inventory difficult especially when selling several months in advance. We currenltly have several 12 month ad campaigns running, it would be difficult to forecast that far out when the clicks are heavily dependant on the quality of the advertising creatives used. We're currently testing several new CPC style advertising models, to see how acurate we can actually get the forecasting. I've always been a fan of CPC pricing and we based all of our ad rates on cost per click + branding to create realistic CPM levels. As long as we would be able to get recognition for the branding service we deliver I wouldnt have a problem with a combination of CPM & CPC advertising models.

Originally posted by bteeter
It is unfortunate that Affiliate Programs have such a bad rap in the hosting industry.
I don't think they have a bad rap, I think affiliate programs are wonderful, but that it wouldn't work in this particular case.
Pay for performance is the only model that is truly fair for advertiser and advertising provider.
If raw sales from ads were the only thing advertising was good for, then yes. This is not the case however. Your ad on one directory, may influence the purchase of your services even a month later when a visitor goes to another directory and sees an ad (again) for your company. Seeing your ad on every directory, a person may sign up, but credit for the sale would be given to only one directory, when in fact it was your total advertising method which actually brought the sale.
Second, many of our affiliates run Webmaster focused web sites. They have seen a fair amount of success, and I think they will continue to do so. The bigger players, ie. Web Hosting Directories, are making so much money with their advertising that they won't touch us.
I'd continue focusing your affiliate program on *related* web master type sites, as the main revenue stream of hosting directories are the host ads. Advertising on them gives you more than just clicks>sales, and you don't seem to want to pay for that awareness branding at this time.

Well put Chicken! This is a landmark occassion we're actually agreeing on something ;)

Chicken,

You made some very good points.

Were working on a cookie type system to track people who have clicked on an ad, and then a few days later ordered a service or product to see how often that happens. We may put this in place on HostingCatalog, but as only a secondary part of the campaign (we still need it paid for CPC ;))

Either way, I know that the big advertising agencies, the former Engage, and DoubelClick already have similar technologies in place and have used them with great results.

If we ever stop procrastinating and get it working, I'll let you know the results of the first campaigns.

If you guys (some of you and the person who started the thread) think advertising is supposed to sell your product/service and deposit money in your account, it never works. It never did and was not supposed to be.

For some reason advertising on the Internet is supposed to result in a direct sign-up; ridiculous. In the traditional advertising media companies still spend thousands of dollars on a quarter or a half page ad in a publication or a billboard or even on radio and none of them seem to result in to direct sign-ups. Is that advertising? I guess so. Don't mix advertising and direct sales, they are two different things.

With regards to affiliate programs from the publishers perspective (and my own) I have noted a few things:

1. It is almost free advertising to companies as you are promoting them for free until someone has actually bought their product/service. In the traditional media it is called "advertising".
2. No one buys (or a very small percentage will) a product/service when they click on the affiliate link for the first time or the second time.... They are mostly looking around, doing research, etc., However, when they do want to make a purchase in most cases they already know where to go and chances are they are going to bypass you, who actually promoted this product to start with. Hence, point #1 above.
3. If and when it works, we have too many dishonest companies that do not have proper tracking or do not pay. If they do pay, the money you make from affiliate programs is peanuts or even sesame seeds, compared to what you would make if they advertised and paid for it, instead.
4. As a publisher if you sign-up a bunch of affilate programs and put their links and banners for free and you as are giving them free advertising, they have no reason to buy ads on your site and they want the same from other sites. Why in the world would they or any competitive company would want to advertise on your site with "real money"?
5. This is why most of the companies that started a couple of years ago who planned to make a killing by linking to different products and services with affiliate links, are no more.

So, if you are a publisher by signing-up for any affiliate program basically you are shooting yourself in the foot and eliminating any chances of some of these companies actually paying you for advertising their business.

Originally posted by Gurudev
If you guys (some of you and the person who started the thread) think advertising is supposed to sell your product/service and deposit money in your account, it never works. It never did and was not supposed to be.


I beg to differ, at least with the first part of your statement. Advertising is intended to sell your product. If it isn't then I suppose all it is intended for is branding. And if memory serves - branding is one way to enhance sales of products.

I don't think anyone expects advertising to work as you describe. Certainly you don't make money by simply advertising your product, you have to sell it.


For some reason advertising on the Internet is supposed to result in a direct sign-up; ridiculous. In the traditional advertising media companies still spend thousands of dollars on a quarter or a half page ad in a publication or a billboard or even on radio and none of them seem to result in to direct sign-ups. Is that advertising? I guess so. Don't mix advertising and direct sales, they are two different things.


To take your own words and change them a little bit:

Don't mix the Internet and the "real world" they are two very different things.

There is an old adage that you will hear a lot in small business circles. "I'm wasting half of my advertising money - I just don't know which half."

Well on the Internet, you DO know which half you are wasting. The source of a purchase can be tracked - for years. Some examples:

If customer X saw a banner advertisement on December 12, 2000 and made a purchase today, this can be tracked and accounted for.

If company Y spends $500 on a banner advertisement for one month, they can know exactly how many times that banner advertisement was viewed, how many times it was clicked on and how many sales resulted.

If customer Z visits your site, starts a purchase, and then changes their mind at the last minute - you can track that too.

The bottom line is that on the Internet, you can track prospects and customers rather easily. In the "real world" you cannot. If you advertise in 30 different magazines, tv spots, and radio ads for the widget that you sell, you will have a difficult time determining which of those 30+ advertisements actually was the originator of the sale.

Let me give you another real world example. Surely (if you live in the US) you've seen that guy selling the cleaners during commercials. You know, Oxi-clean, and Orange Glo, etc. I couldn't tell you the first time I saw him on the commercial. I've probably seen it a few hundred times now. In any event, shortly after seeing it the first time on TV I was intrigued, then I saw it in a local store, then one of my cats decided to puke all over our new carpet, finally I proceeded to buy the cleaners, and thankfully clean up the cat puke.

The moral of the story is, for the maker of Oxi-Clean they may attrubute the sale to Linens and Things (where I bought it), but I was sold on the product when I saw the first commercial. Really the commercial is what did it. In the real world, they have no way of knowing this - in the Internet world we do.



With regards to affiliate programs from the publishers perspective (and my own) I have noted a few things:

1. It is almost free advertising to companies as you are promoting them for free until someone has actually bought their product/service. In the traditional media it is called "advertising".
2. No one buys (or a very small percentage will) a product/service when they click on the affiliate link for the first time or the second time.... They are mostly looking around, doing research, etc., However, when they do want to make a purchase in most cases they already know where to go and chances are they are going to bypass you, who actually promoted this product to start with. Hence, point #1 above.


See the information about tracking above.

Also, many affiliate programs, ours included, have the concept of a Lifetime customer. If a customer first comes from you, then you own that customer for life. If they make a purchase later, you get credit. If they make a purchase now, and then again later, you get credit for both. There is a directory full of programs like this at:

http://www.lifetimecommissions.com





3. If and when it works, we have too many dishonest companies that do not have proper tracking or do not pay. If they do pay, the money you make from affiliate programs is peanuts or even sesame seeds, compared to what you would make if they advertised and paid for it, instead.


Perhaps you are right, I don't know. I've been fortunate enough to work with companies that have always paid. I know that others have not been so lucky.

A good place to learn about the bum programs before you sign up is:

http://www.associateprograms.com

They have a message board that tends to light up whenever a merchant doesn't pay their affiliates.



4. As a publisher if you sign-up a bunch of affilate programs and put their links and banners for free and you as are giving them free advertising, they have no reason to buy ads on your site and they want the same from other sites. Why in the world would they or any competitive company would want to advertise on your site with "real money"?

You make a good point. If you can do better as an advertising provider selling advertising at a high price - then you should continue to do so. I can't argue with that. Its just good business.


5. This is why most of the companies that started a couple of years ago who planned to make a killing by linking to different products and services with affiliate links, are no more.

So, if you are a publisher by signing-up for any affiliate program basically you are shooting yourself in the foot and eliminating any chances of some of these companies actually paying you for advertising their business.

I wouldn't agree there. There are a lot of affiliates who make a living off of their affiliate programs. Allan Gardyne, the gentleman who runs:

http://www.associateprograms.com

Among other sites has built a very successful small business promoting affiliate programs. He has something like 6 employees, works from home, and lives a pretty decent life. He isn't alone.

There will come a time when Hosting Companies won't pay high up front fees for advertising - just as most other Internet companies won't anymore. When that time comes I think that the affiliate model will be more attractive than it is now.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, hosts who have advertised on directories and other venues are losing a lot of money. No business can survive that way forever. Advertising has to give results, or it simply cannot continue. That is why I believe that a CPA model will become the norm. Maybe not now, maybe the industry isn't ready, but perhaps in a year or two.

When it gets there, we will be prepared. Our affiliate base will be strong, and earning right along with us. Its something I can feel good about. Its a Win-Win.

Take care,

Brian

Brian are you actually reading what others have posted within this thread, or are you simply writing the same thing over and over until they stop replying?

Originally posted by bteeter

Well on the Internet, you DO know which half you are wasting. The source of a purchase can be tracked - for years.

This is totally untrue, the same business laws that apply in "the real world" apply to the internet. How do you track those customers that didnt click on your banner but have seen your ads all over the internet and recognise that your keen to get their business? And dont tell me thats a small proportion of the total sales made, because if it was why the hell would companies spend so much time "branding" their advertisements, with colors and themes that continue over the life of their campaigns. You should take a look at some of the larger advertisers and see for yourself. Dellhost, superb internet, dialtone, verio, pair etc etc. All of them have a brand theyre promoting as well as simply click throughs.

Originally posted by bteeter

A good place to learn about the bum programs before you sign up is:

http://www.associateprograms.com



I'm pretty sure your trying to teach people here to suck eggs. Affiliate programs arnt new theyve been around for years (so have cookie based tracking programs) And you know what? Even though theyve been around for years, they still represent a tiny percentage of online promotion.

Originally posted by bteeter


There will come a time when Hosting Companies won't pay high up front fees for advertising - just as most other Internet companies won't anymore. When that time comes I think that the affiliate model will be more attractive than it is now.



Could you please wake up! Only 10% of all promotional budgets in the hosting industry are spent online. As youve been quick to point out (albeit wrongly) the internet provides "acurate" tracking of your advertising campaign. If that is the case, why would they cut their online advertising before their offline promotions? Surely they would move advertising budgets into areas that can be more accountable?

Originally posted by bteeter


From what I've read here and elsewhere, hosts who have advertised on directories and other venues are losing a lot of money.

Where did you read this? So what your saying is that only hosts running CPA programs will be around in the long run? I think you should conduct some better research before spouting off statisitics here and there. Sure there are some badly run hosting companies out there, as is the case in all industries, but I'm not aware of any facts that say the majority of our clients are going bust anytime soon. Quite the opposite in fact. We've seen ad spending increase over the last quarter to above that of last year. If that money is being wasted, where is is coming from? The VC market isnt exactly active right now, so these guys must either have well paying day jobs......or........no surely not.......theyre actually making money from web hosting!

Shhh keep that one quiet we dont want everyone to know.

Well this was certainly an educational thread. :) I know now a lot more than I did before. I don't agree with some of what I read, but obviously some of you don't agree with me either.

This wasn't at all what I intended it to be - but hey - I would say it was still worth it. I now know a lot more about the mindset of hosting directories specifically, and publishers in general. That can only be helpful going forward...

Take care,

Brian

Well from what i have read of this string It seems that most (not all) have ran an add on a directory at one time or another.
I run a directory that I used to sell advertising on doing a CMP based system and it worked out realy well. my clients got an avg of 5 clients for a run of 2000 adviews.

I have just switched to monthly. and I will let you know how it goes if anyone cares.