There have been more and more talks over the past few years about Canada giving up our dollar and using the Americian dollar. What do you think of this Americians? What do you think of this Canadians?

IMHO we'd do better to adopt the Euro or British Pound. Most of our trade is with the US, but our fiscal and social policies are far more in line with western european nations.

Edit: I guess I should add that I'm a Canadian, in case it wasn't already obvious.

Originally posted by cperciva
IMHO we'd do better to adopt the Euro or British Pound. Most of our trade is with the US, but our fiscal and social policies are far more in line with western european nations.

Edit: I guess I should add that I'm a Canadian, in case it wasn't already obvious.
My view is though that if we adopt the US dollar then we are only a stone throw away from becoming 1 country

There wouldnt be any point of adopting the british pounds seeing as its going to be replaced with the euro anyway. So joing the euro :) It wouldnt very european then... hmm

Originally posted by netsolutions
There have been more and more talks over the past few years about Canada giving up our dollar and using the Americian dollar. What do you think of this Americians? What do you think of this Canadians?
I have to admit that this is the first time I have heard anything of the sort, so I guess I'm more surprised than anything. I don't know what is best for Canada, so I really don't think I can give an opinion.

Nope, the UK isn't changing over to the Euro. Only the mainland european countries are going to be using the Euro. Our government doesn't see the economic viability of changing over to the Euro, so the British pound stays :)

If we were to change currency, I'd rather it changed to $US!! lol

Who started talking about the UK and Euro? I'm talking about Canada and the US dollar

I live in Michigan and thought the moneywas the same anyway

Originally posted by Fish_Saver
I live in Michigan and thought the moneywas the same anyway

ummm, well it isnt.
I agree with us using your dollar cause ours is doing crapy! The exchange rate is terrible!


Chris

Originally posted by Chicken

I have to admit that this is the first time I have heard anything of the sort, so I guess I'm more surprised than anything. I don't know what is best for Canada, so I really don't think I can give an opinion. Must be news there and not here. Because I haven't heard of it either. And, as it seems it's more of a Canadian issue, I can't really comment on it.

But I can comment on Originally posted byFish_Saver
I live in Michigan and thought the moneywas the same anyway:eek::eek2::eek2::eek:


:D

I'm from Michigan. So I can say that. :D

When I go to the store an they give me change I get 2 US quarters, 1 canadian quarter and canadian dime so they must be the same.

Originally posted by creid


ummm, well it isnt.
I agree with us using your dollar cause ours is doing crapy! The exchange rate is terrible!


Chris
Ya but once we got that far we are then only a stone throw a way from becoming one country.

Originally posted by Fish_Saver
When I go to the store an they give me change . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 canadian quarter and canadian dime . . . . .And they won't work in any ##$$%^^@ machine!!:bawling:



:D

Originally posted by netsolutions
Ya but once we got that far we are then only a stone throw a way from becoming one country. That's an emotional argument, but pretty unsubstantial.

The fact is that among business leaders and economists the idea is almost universally acclaimed -- especially in Canada, which stands to benefit the most from the growing integration of the two countries' economies. The Americans here at WHT are for the most unaware of the issue because it really matters little to the US resident one way or the other. For the most part, Americans would hardly notice such a change, but it would have a major impact, both socially and economically, in Canada.

The relative strength or weakness of the US dollar is the strongest single influence on the Canadian economy, as it is in many countries -- one of the reasons why many countries have taken the step of indexing the value of their own national currencies to that of the US dollar.

Canada benefits greatly from exports to the US, and the flow of exports would be that much easier if it didn't involve a currency translation.

The arguments against a single currency, from the Canadian perspective, are only political and emotional, centered around a sense of national pride. Certainly that shouldn't be dismissed, but neither should it be exaggerated. The implication that adoption of the US dollar somehow would lead to a single political system is an exaggeration.

The business benefits should be obvious to you -- someone who's been expressing a desire to incorporate his Canadian-owned business in the US -- at least!

Originally posted by netsolutions
There have been more and more talks over the past few years about Canada giving up our dollar and using the Americian dollar. What do you think of this Americians? What do you think of this Canadians?


As a resident of the USA. I would have to say NUTS.

Canada is so wonderful. Do you want to ruin it by having thing priced in USD uhhgg. Right now I can drive up to Montreal, buy a real nice condo ( smack dab in the center of town ) live like a king, See the most amazing women ( besides the ones in Brazil ) and do it all on the cheap.

Hell last year I stayed in the Ritz. it only cost me 150 a night. The rooms were huge.

No please don't adopt the USD.

But it would be funny to see the French Canadians complain about the size of the lettering in the USD

Je suis content que je fonde quelqu'un qui partage ma vue sur adopter de Canada le dollar. Vous remercier pour vos commentaires :)

Originally posted by netsolutions
Je suis content que je fonde quelqu'un qui partage ma vue sur adopter de Canada le dollar. Vous remercier pour vos commentaires :)


english :

I am content that I met somebody who shares my sight on adopting of Canada the dollar. You to thank for your comments

reply:
aucun problème

thank the babelfish for the translation.

oh one more note. It's not that things are cheap in canada, no things can be very expensive (clothing and gas can cost a fortune). it's that the currency exchange currently is making things cheap.

Yes for Americians coming to Canada it's very good to them. Like my Dad always says "$10 Canadian equals about $1,000,000 Americian" :)

Originally posted by sqposter
priced in USD uhhgg. Right now I can drive up to Montreal, buy a real nice condo ( smack dab in the center of town ) live like a king, See the most amazing women ( besides the ones in Brazil ) and do it all on the cheap. That's a misunderstanding of the issue. Simply using the US dollar as the official currency wouldn't mean that the basic economics of the two countries would become identical.

For example, go to El Salvador. The US dollar is the official currency, but you could still buy home for even less than you could in Canada; you could still "live like a king." Many Caribbean nations also have adopted the US dollar, but it doesn't mean they share the US economy. Same for Panama, Ecuador, Micronesia, etc.

The Canadian dollar right now is worth about 63 cents American. So presumably, any potential economic benefits of the changeover notwithstanding, a condo selling for $100,000 Canadian today would be priced at $63,000 if that country were using the American dollar. You, as an American, would have exactly the same spending power either way.

Originally posted by netsolutions
Yes for Americians coming to Canada it's very good to them. Like my Dad always says "$10 Canadian equals about $1,000,000 Americian" :)

I always thought it was the other way around. I probably just watched Canadian Bacon too many times.

Sorry ya, $10 US equals about $1,000,000 Americian

Originally posted by JayC
That's an emotional argument, but pretty unsubstantial.

The fact is that among business leaders and economists the idea is almost universally acclaimed -- especially in Canada, which stands to benefit the most from the growing integration of the two countries' economies. The Americans here at WHT are for the most unaware of the issue because it really matters little to the US resident one way or the other. For the most part, Americans would hardly notice such a change, but it would have a major impact, both socially and economically, in Canada.

very true. The american owned corporations in Canada would love to have US currency in Canada. That is, of course, second in importance to exploiting and pillaging Canadas resources.
Originally posted by JayC

Canada benefits greatly from exports to the US, and the flow of exports would be that much easier if it didn't involve a currency translation.

It would also be easier to export, and benifit more greatly, if the USA would cut, or at least lower tariffs. America is getting double the benefit: cheap imports, and money to boot.
Originally posted by JayC
The arguments against a single currency, from the Canadian perspective, are only political and emotional, centered around a sense of national pride. Certainly that shouldn't be dismissed, but neither should it be exaggerated. The implication that adoption of the US dollar somehow would lead to a single political system is an exaggeration.

I agree with some of that, but I do think it runs a little deeper than national pride and emotion.

I guess you can tell I am canadian, and I am not completly for using US currency in Canada. I am no economist, but i know that a unified currency would lead to bad things.

Hello
I am not an American or a Canadian but I do business in both countries.

Canada is very European in business practices and temperament.
Dealing with Canadian businesses is very like dealing with UK or French businesses. Everything is just a bit lower key and less "in your face" and upfront as in the US.
I think its because a lot of Canadians are recently descended from European immigrants (more so than in the US).

They even have the same queen as us!
(the americans just keep trying to create a hereditary monarchy, Bush......... Kennedy ........ to replace the one they kicked out in 1776)

Oh dear.
Cant believe I said that as I am actually a republican.

Let the flaming commence :)

Gordon

I am an American, as such I don't have an opinion on this. It is up to our friends to the north to determine the answer to this question.

Im not of either nationality - me = from UK

And I work in a bank so I suppose I can say this -

I think the ball is in canadas court, if they want to join I dont think anyone will mind, makes things much easier. Just like the euro has done over here, instead of our customers wanting such and such a currency its now all pound to euro conversions for people going into europe. Makes it alot easier for us as we only have to deal with one currency and excange rate.

I think it would have the same effect in the US...

Originally posted by acidHL
Im not of either nationality - me = from UK

And I work in a bank so I suppose I can say this -

I think the ball is in canadas court, if they want to join I dont think anyone will mind, makes things much easier. Just like the euro has done over here, instead of our customers wanting such and such a currency its now all pound to euro conversions for people going into europe. Makes it alot easier for us as we only have to deal with one currency and excange rate.

I think it would have the same effect in the US...

Although people argue trade etc. would be increased through a single currency, the current system works fine. Using a single currency means higher risks of the currency crashing (remember the ERM back in 1992? - hit the UK hard), and governments have less control of their own economy.

Imo (from a British citizen's perspective) single currencies do not work, you only have to look at Argentina currently, who's currency is on an equal basis to the US Dollar.

Regards
Matt

Just a reminder, im only a cashier, therefore its easier for me personally... Thats my point :P

Most of you guys are saying Canada is so cheap! Cause of the Exchange rate. It sucks for us Canadians to go to the states. I would like to see it but it is just a fact that it won't happen, ever. We are two different country's. Your languages are English and Spanish. Notre Anglais et Francais. (Ours English and French)


Chris

Our exchange rate here in Canada really sucks when we're purchasing from the US. My $99 Rack costs $169.46 in Canadian $.

But it's good in other ways, as it is good for our tourism industry, as Americans can come up here for vacations quite inexpensive because the US dollar is worth so much up here.

Ya but it's great for us living in Canada that are getting paid Canadian dollars :D

Originally posted by JayC
That's a misunderstanding of the issue. Simply using the US dollar as the official currency wouldn't mean that the basic economics of the two countries would become identical.

For example, go to El Salvador. The US dollar is the official currency, but you could still buy home for even less than you could in Canada; you could still "live like a king." Many Caribbean nations also have adopted the US dollar, but it doesn't mean they share the US economy. Same for Panama, Ecuador, Micronesia, etc.

The Canadian dollar right now is worth about 63 cents American. So presumably, any potential economic benefits of the changeover notwithstanding, a condo selling for $100,000 Canadian today would be priced at $63,000 if that country were using the American dollar. You, as an American, would have exactly the same spending power either way.

OK, let's place this into perspective.

El Salvador about 2 hours away, small population, mass transit system that's not to be desired, As of 1 January 2001, the US dollar was made legal tender alongside the colon. and a culture that is predominately (SP?) spanish (mestizo) with a large Roman Catholic base.

Canada: Huge diversity with a huge europe style, culture and taste, stable government. many Religion welcome. Currency stable and directly reflective of growth and income. Overall I would call it ( without insult or offense ) a Mini - USA with more cutural heritage.

now Canada is easier to live in than El Salvador for the standard American. due to the simularities.

Problem that will arise with canada if they adopt the US Dollar is that americans might ( and will ) come into their lands to buy up everything.

Site you an example:

my neighbor. Spent 9 million dollars on 2 estates. 1 in France, one in England, the english one looks like a castle with a mote and everything on 43 Hector's (sp?) of land (that's about 80+ acres of land ). the one in france is a chatou (the real thing) on 20 acres. with fancy garden.

Why, Because she wanted to have those things. and did not care about the cost too much. Now imagine those in the USA that can afford to buy canada realestate. everything is prised US $, great locations at reasonable prices ( I live in New Jersey so what's reasonable to me might not be to others, but should apply to the Boston, Chicago, DC and tri-state area residents). Bang, poor canadians, they won't be able to enjoy those nice areas simply because the "american's" drove up the prices. Simple as supply and demand.

Keep Canada, Canadian.

-Sqposter / Michael

Originally posted by sqposter
Problem that will arise with canada if they adopt the US Dollar is that americans might ( and will ) come into their lands to buy up everything. The point is that adopting the US dollar as currency changes nothing else about the relationship between the two countries or about their respective economies. That is, it makes it no more likely for Americans to take over the Canadian real estate market than does the current favorable exchange rate.

To be clear, I'm not even arguing that Canada should make the change; I'm only pointing out that many of the arguments against doing so really have little substance.

Originally posted by JayC
The point is that adopting the US dollar as currency changes nothing else about the relationship between the two countries or about their respective economies. That is, it makes it no more likely for Americans to take over the Canadian real estate market than does the current favorable exchange rate.


Oh, I'm sorry, I went way off topic there. I thought everyone knew this point but just incase I think that some poeple might not and to blow a big hole in the above statement.

1 simple point : ( and the only one that really counts )

Interest rate.

If the USA raises rates, any country that has addopted the US$ will have to match rates.

why.
Money funds inflow / outflow
example:

USA t-bill rate = 5%
US$ Canada t-bill = 5%

money grows the same for both

USA t-bill rate = 5%
US$ Canada t-bill = 5.5%

US$ Canada money grows at .5 better than USA or 10% better.
money flows (deposit fund) out of US banking system and flows into Canada system. again this is triple-A t-bills so the credit risk is averted.

USA t-bill rate = 5.5%
US$ Canada t-bill = 5%

reverse the above.

related problem:
inflation or deflation, if any economy is to be "subject" of the US$ then they must be able to weather the storms that the USA economy ( recession or growth ). sink or swim along the same lines ( USA will adjust the interest rate in relation to the way the economy has to be adjusted )

That's why El Salvador has accepted us$ as tender along side on the colon. they have room to adjust their growth and slow down the black market exchange ( or the second economy )

to further understand this point about interest rates please see the following : http://www.stern.nyu.edu/~nroubini/Emu/EMUChoteFT1097.html




offtopic:
Chancellor Dr. Helmut Kohl, in a small speach had made passing reference ( durring 1989 to 1993, I wish I could find my notes) that the unification must happen with other countries europe otherwise there might be war against germany.

I'm very much sadden to see the D-mark leave us. That was one of the best currencies to trade ( the second best liquidty, the Yen is the best and always active market in it ).

Originally posted by sqposter
Oh, I'm sorry, I went way off topic there. I thought everyone knew this point but just incase I think that some poeple might not and to blow a big hole in the above statement.

1 simple point : ( and the only one that really counts )

Interest rate.

If the USA raises rates, any country that has addopted the US$ will have to match rates. No, that's not entirely true. Presumably there'd still be a central bank in Canada, and that agency would still have some influence over interest rates in Canada either through the money market.

Even if it were true, it would be good for most Canadians: consistantly in recent history Canada's interest rates have been higher than those in the US. By most measures, in fact, the loonie has been weaker and less stable than the dollar. As evidence, check out the continual slipping (from the Canadian perspective) of the exchange rate. If it were not so, there wouldn't be the support in the Canadian business community that exists for dollarization.

The comparative weakness of the Canadian economy causes a flow of capitalization into the US. That's one of the contributing factors to Canada's higher (in comparison to the US) unemployment rate and, as mentioned, higher interest rates.

Dollarization, either by indexing the Canadian dollar to the value of the US dollar or by simply adopting the US dollar as the Canadian currency, would likely help to reduce those effects. It would also reduce the transaction costs of trade between the two countries. It would also probably help lessen the protectionist tariffs that someone mentioned earlier, further stimulating Canadian exports.

The downside or risk, from an economic standpoint, is -- as you suggest -- that Canada would have less flexibility to react to unexpected events in the world economy than it has with the current floating index system.

related problem:
inflation or deflation, if any economy is to be "subject" of the US$ then they must be able to weather the storms that the USA economy ( recession or growth ). sink or swim along the same lines ( USA will adjust the interest rate in relation to the way the economy has to be adjusted )
True as a generality, but Canada always has (in modern times) weathered and concievably always will weather the storms of the US economy. Especially so in the post-NAFTA age.

to further understand this point about interest rates please see the following : http://www.stern.nyu.edu/~nroubini/Emu/EMUChoteFT1097.htmlOK, but that's Europe. We're talking about a relationship between two countries, the US and Canada. As alluded to above, in many ways this is almost a single economy already -- much more so that the same is true of the EU.

Originally posted by JayC
No, that's not entirely true. Presumably there'd still be a central bank in Canada, and that agency would still have some influence over interest rates in Canada either through the money market.

Even if it were true, it would be good for most Canadians: consistantly in recent history Canada's interest rates have been higher than those in the US. By most measures, in fact, the loonie has been weaker and less stable than the dollar. As evidence, check out the continual slipping (from the Canadian perspective) of the exchange rate. If it were not so, there wouldn't be the support in the Canadian business community that exists for dollarization.

The comparative weakness of the Canadian economy causes a flow of capitalization into the US. That's one of the contributing factors to Canada's higher (in comparison to the US) unemployment rate and, as mentioned, higher interest rates.

Dollarization, either by indexing the Canadian dollar to the value of the US dollar or by simply adopting the US dollar as the Canadian currency, would likely help to reduce those effects. It would also reduce the transaction costs of trade between the two countries. It would also probably help lessen the protectionist tariffs that someone mentioned earlier, further stimulating Canadian exports.

The downside or risk, from an economic standpoint, is -- as you suggest -- that Canada would have less flexibility to react to unexpected events in the world economy than it has with the current floating index system.


True as a generality, but Canada always has (in modern times) weathered and concievably always will weather the storms of the US economy. Especially so in the post-NAFTA age.

OK, but that's Europe. We're talking about a relationship between two countries, the US and Canada. As alluded to above, in many ways this is almost a single economy already -- much more so that the same is true of the EU.

You make an outstandingly good arguement

I will discuss those points that I can.

1) central bank in Canada : yes they should be able to affect short term policy, but long term will be deadly. because of the yield spread trade ( which becomes profitable to do at 52 basis points ( .52% )) lock a few billion up and your making a steady income check ( banks do this all the time but hedge the money risk )

2) it would be good for most Canadians:
this is the short term outlook. I think that Canada has some of the most interesting corporate laws on the books. My favorite is the monopoly (sp?). right now USA corps. are banned frm being a monopoly but given the right influnences (dollarization) it might be the factor for US companies to set up shells in canada, Might give american corp. that one slight edge ( does not hurt that gift giving is ok also wink wink )

3) Dollarization, either by indexing the Canadian dollar to the value of the US dollar or by simply adopting the US dollar as the Canadian currency, would likely help to reduce those effects

please remmember that canada still has a larger percentage of it's earnings in raw products (natural). with the weekness of oil and raw lumber being prime problems, then on top of the montreal debit (and break off) risk, till the montreal problem is fixed, the weakness will be there. raw material is slowly moving away from the index due to ever increasing support and service industry moving there.

indexing would reduce effects but adopting would just mirror it.



I will say that I have not traded the C dollar since 1997. so to tell you the truth I'm still thinking that the correllations of the currecy are related to oil products, lumber products and metal ore products. I could be totally wrong about the earnings. But I will say that the montreal risk is enough to have at least 50 to 150 basis points difference.