Hello

Recently I registered a name nchost.com to start a web hosting business.

Two or three weeks ago I received a message from mchost.com as follows:


I would recommend you not to try using or selling the domain 'nchost.com' as it is confusingly similar to 'mchost.com' on which we hold trademarks.

Thanks for your time
Marc Wyss
marc@mchost.com



What do you think? My point is that who tells North Continent Host, North Carolina Host or even Norton Commander Host :) is similar to mchost.com ?

We have prepared a website but I have not uploaded it waiting for my lawyer investigate the case.

By the way I searched all trade mark search engines and did not find anything about mchost .

Any comment is appereciated.

Mac

I would contact a trademark lawyer on that one, personally they wouldnt have a case, since theres achost *****...they can trademark mchost, but not nchost

I would contact a trademark lawyer on that one, personally they wouldnt have a case, since theres achost *****...they can trademark mchost, but not nchost
Maybe it is the *host* part he holds a trademark on.:D

I think you are taking it too seriously. If I am correct, that guy was quoting in another forum that he received a letter from someone which said that they (mc host) are violating some other companies tradermark. I don't think there is any trademark issue with these kind of names, as mchost is not a household name that has been tradermarked for years, there is nothing to confuse with, and in the court of law I doubt they will have a case. Now with all those new extensions .biz, .info, etc., someone will have to put these names to a good use.

However, if you are serious about your business and if they are serious about their threat then both of you should pay the bills of some poor lawyer and that way everyone will flourish - especially, the lawyer.

sarmadys,
Hurry up register mchost.com too, ooop I meant mzhost.com,
it still available.

'nchost.com' as it is confusingly similar to 'mchost.com'

mzhost.com is as confusing as mchost.com

"z" is sound as "c" in american.:confused:

Mc Donalds should sue Mc Host...

Aloha
well they are fishing and have no way to enforce that ???
if you were mc-host.com they would have a case but not NCHost
dont see how they could do that but who is right is not always the winner. also remember it will take them money to take you in
just ask them not to threaten you anymore cause that in itself is illegal and harrasing someone over email could bring on a federal offense and take out a restraining order on them
hehhehehehee
ok going overboard here sorry

basically just dont ever send anything back my brother who is a lawyer says never let any one know what you are up to.
just ignore them


Originally posted by sarmadys
Hello

Recently I registered a name nchost.com to start a web hosting business.

Two or three weeks ago I received a message from mchost.com as follows:




What do you think? My point is that who tells North Continent Host, North Carolina Host or even Norton Commander Host :) is similar to mchost.com ?

We have prepared a website but I have not uploaded it waiting for my lawyer investigate the case.

By the way I searched all trade mark search engines and did not find anything about mchost .

Any comment is appereciated.

Mac

Originally posted by sarmadys
Recently I registered a name nchost.com to start a web hosting business....
I think this one would be better left up to the courts to decide. Is it similar, yep. Are others domains, and extensions of the same domain, yep. I don't think there is a blck/white rule on confusingly similar and as I said, this would be one for the courts to decide.

I agree that legal advice is your best option... however, I wouldn't read into this too much for a few reasons.

(1) As was said before, mchost is not a household name, now if you registered nicrosoft.com, then I would worry.

(2) MCHost *may* be trademarked but NCHost isn't, I couldn't imagine there being any confusion there (goes back to #1).

(3) Here's the big one. The reason why I said *may* be trademarked is when visiting MCHost.com's web site I noticed that they are lacking the "Registered Trademark" symbol (The "R" within the circle). They aren't even using an unregistered Trademark symbol (TM). U.S. Trademark laws require the use of the registered trademark symbol to continue using that trademark.

I would suggest just continuing with starting your company and if it continues talk to a lawyer. Sounds like more then anything Marc Wyss was in a bad mood :).

We have a reseller called hostingroute.com.......

Never bothered me, maybe it should have - who knows!

Gordon

I have a stupid question....

What if i have a registered and trademarked domain called for example "TeamHosts.com".... and someone else has the domain "TeamHost.com".... can i like make that jerk who owns TeamHost.com give up the domain?

:confused:

Aloha
well yes I would defend it
if you do not defend it you can loose your right to the other party (a bit more compicated than that but the main idea)
if you have the trademark and they do not
may also depend on prior use as common prior use can come into play etc....
there is a happyfish.net that is used for fishtank supplies do I go after them NO cause they are not cometing or confusing now if they started webdesign I would go after them.
just some thoughts

Originally posted by Frosty
I have a stupid question....

What if i have a registered and trademarked domain called for example "TeamHosts.com".... and someone else has the domain "TeamHost.com".... can i like make that jerk who owns TeamHost.com give up the domain?

:confused:

sarmadys, actually, MCHost.com is a registered trademark. You didn't look hard enough :-P

http://www.nameprotect.com/cgi-bin/FREESearch/search.cgi?action=SEARCH&db=DOM&ss=mchost&imageField.x=4&imageField.y=14

first one on the list. sorry m8.

Aloha
one other thought they could just be protecting there right to the name if they do not try to stop people they can loose rights so that would make more sense to me that they sent out hte notice etc... that way they have proof they are serious should one that is closer come up ???

Originally posted by Cyber
sarmadys, actually, MCHost.com is a registered trademark. You didn't look hard enough :-P

http://www.nameprotect.com/cgi-bin/FREESearch/search.cgi?action=SEARCH&db=DOM&ss=mchost&imageField.x=4&imageField.y=14

first one on the list. sorry m8. Sorry. But that result is just same and similar domain names. Nothing about trademarks.

He used the wrong search...

http://www.nameprotect.com/cgi-bin/FREESearch/search.cgi?action=SEARCH&db=PTO&ss=mchost

oops :blush: my mistake!

Originally posted by Cyber
sarmadys, actually, MCHost.com is a registered trademark. You didn't look hard enough :-P

http://www.nameprotect.com/cgi-bin/FREESearch/search.cgi?action=SEARCH&db=DOM&ss=mchost&imageField.x=4&imageField.y=14



Hello

Thank you but these names are result of a simple domain name search. But results are interesting:

It shows a list of domains that contain the word "mchost" exactly. (Some of them have their .net extension registered too including mchost.net and mchosting.net which are registered by other people)

1 MCHOST.com & .net
2 MCHOSTELS.com & .net
3 MCHOSTER.com
4 MCHOSTING.com
5 AMCHOST.com
6 BMCHOST.com
7 BMCHOSTING.com & .net
8 CMCHOST.com
9 DMCHOST.com
10 IMCHOST.com
11 IMCHOSTING.com
12 KMCHOSTING.com & .net
13 RMCHOSTING.com
14 SMCHOST.com
15 LBMCHOST.com
16 SNMCHOST.com
17 EDGEMCHOST.com

And you see there are so many names confusingly :confused: the same as a domain name.

Mac

First of all, i dont want to make a 20 pages thread out of this. Second, for an obvious reason, we have registred the trademark "MCHOST" in several countries worldwide. It was registred in order to protect our corporate identity from other companies using the same or a similar name.

I don't care if you open an online drug store with KMCHOSTING.com or an online radio station with DMCHOST.com, but if you launch NCHost.com as a hosting (or related) company, then we have a problem.

Why? Because spelling "MCHOST" and "NCHOST" sounds very very similar and both domains could easily be confused one with another.

We've had quite a few disputes through WIPO ( http://www.wipo.int/ ) over the past years with people who have been using domains similar to trademarks or patents that we have and i just don't want to go through another one. If you wish, i'd be happy to send you copies of our trademark registrations over snail mail. :)

I would see if there's a problem with mchosting.com or mchostWHATEVER but if you take that argument to court, your likely to loose

I was in a conversation with my attorney about other things and asked them about this post because there are other companies that use the intense + whatever in the hosting business

Honestly its throwing money away

There really isnt anything you can do, I would just get over it.

Its not that big of a deal

joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
I was in a conversation with my attorney about other things and asked them about this post because there are other companies that use the intense + whatever in the hosting business

Honestly its throwing money away

There really isnt anything you can do, I would just get over it.

Its not that big of a deal

joe

I was talking about WIPO, not your local court. WIPO was founded just for that, in order to protect your intellectual property. If you are serious about your business, its well spent money.

Originally posted by sarmadys
By the way I searched all trade mark search engines and did not find anything about mchost .

It usually takes 6-8 months for it to show up in online databases.

First of all, i dont want to make a 20 pages thread out of this.
18 to go. Better slow down.

You know what I find amusing they don't seem to bothered by amchost which is the letter "A" followed by there TRADEMARKED name.

I find that the most annoying part of this situation is the fact that MCHost (Hope I don't get into trouble for mentioning a trademark) is a rather large, highly advertised company whereas I'm asuming the other person is probably going to be a reseller, that's like threatening a fly with a chainsaw.

Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken MCHost only offers reseller packages. And as long as nchost doesn't offer reseller packages there is no conflict. I mean, Kellog's can't sue someone for putting a picture of a tiger on a can of soup (in reference to Tony the Tiger of course :)).

'nuff said.

Please take no offense,

MiCrosoftHost

Hehe, I coulden't help it :)

Any ways, Kiwi, why not let NCHost be a MCHost reseller. Then you lose no business, and he has a chance to use the domain he reg'd... Just a thought.

I was talking about WIPO, not your local court. WIPO was founded just for that, in order to protect your intellectual property.

There is an assumption (with most people/businesses) that one can register their trademark and they have protected their territory. In fact, it makes very little difference. A trademark (that is what it stands for) is judged based on its value and name recognition and not by the mere fact that it is a registered name. In fact, in the USA one does not even have to have a registration to a name/service and having one does not mean much in the court of law.

With regards to WIPO, it is even worse, there have been hardly any cases with a precedence. Unless, you are a Coca Cola, McDonald's or some other household name that has been around for years, any company trying to pursue this will be spending more money defending it, than the actual worth of their trade name.

MicrosoftHost - now, that is a problem. NCHost? Nah!

Why dont you trademark NCHost.com and ask MCHost to hand over their domain to you in voilation of your trademark? :laugh:

[

Any ways, Kiwi, why not let NCHost be a MCHost reseller. Then you lose no business, and he has a chance to use the domain he reg'd... Just a thought.

Actually I was very interested in their reseller programs before their message and I wanted to start a reseller site on their services.

Mac

If it makes you feel better, North > NC

:)

Originally posted by Gurudev
With regards to WIPO, it is even worse, there have been hardly any cases with a precedence. Unless, you are a Coca Cola, McDonald's or some other household name that has been around for years, any company trying to pursue this will be spending more money defending it, than the actual worth of their trade name.
Actually, we have a pretty good 'record' with WIPO. Just an example with another company we've operated in the past:

http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-1082.html
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-0131.html

(Note: there are 2 different files against 2 different individuals about the same domain name).

I don't wish to start a flaming here, my opinions on this have been voiced and i hope you all agree that 'MCHost' and 'NCHost' sound confusingly similar. For any further questions, i can be contacted anytime at marc@mchost.com :)

Originally posted by Kiwi

i hope you all agree that 'MCHost' and 'NCHost' sound confusingly similar.

Actually I was taught in grade school pronunciation, they taught me M has a mmmmmmmmm sound to it, and N has a nnnnnnnnn sound to it

I don't see the similarity in each name

On or about July 18, 2000, the Complainant and the Respondent corresponded on the subject of the Complainant possibly buying the Domain Name "iseekamerica.com" from the Respondent. The Respondent pointed the Complainant to the website of an appraisal service by which the Domain Name was given an "inventory value" of $US22,016 and an "appraised value" of $14,310. The Domain Name was available for sale through another website at $50,000 as at August 18, 2000. The Complainant did not buy it.

Respondent has registered and is using the Domain Name "iseekamerica.com" in bad faith.

That was based on domain squatting and not based on confusing trademarks. I did not read the whole document there but that name was registed for the sole purpose of selling it. Different case. This is not a case of registering names in bad faith. NCHost is not registered in bad faith but for real business practices (if I understand it correctly).

The "MCHost trademark" is only valid for MCHost and nothing else (not NCHost or PCHost and so on). If someone sells hosting as an imposter under the name MCHost, there is a case. If someone goes and registers MCHost.net or MCHost.biz and puts up a hosting business that is similar, then there "may" be a case.

No flaming wars - just a discussion based on what we know. It might all change in the court of law. Keep us posted. We all would like to know how far it went and what happened.

being a trademark holder and somewhat versed with tradmark law I would not sweat this thing, many companies use scare tactics when they feel crowded. Use the domain in good faith and if "mc" finds you are a threat to their good name and market value so be it. It's going to cost a bundle in litigation on their side and who knows, if they're seriously threatend by you, let them buy you out.

cha ching :cool:

hey.. I think who ever registered host.com should sue everyone:D

cha ching ching ching

whatever does M in MCHost stand for? :eek:.

Isn't it ironic MChost is defending their trademark, yet they use 3 Microsoft XP icons on their home page... isn't that a copyright violation? Or is Microsoft nice and lets anyone use them...?

Oooo

I think... that MCHost and NCHost sound similar. Even though it is mmmmmm and nnnnnnnnn. They sound similar when you say them. Not the same, similar. If nchost.com was registered for the purpose of getting customers looking for MCHost/confusing people/etc., that's a Bad Thing. But if it stands for, oh, Network Co-location Host (hey... that's good), what's the problem?

___ (http://www.microsoft.com/permission/copyrgt/cop-img.htm#Icons)



PS. What does MC stands for? Masters of Computers? Mystery Corporation? Magical Computing? Or does it not stand for ANYTHING?!?!

MCHost and NCHost sounds similar. But its very unlikely that Mchost can win the case if its being brought up to court. There are too much similar spelling or sounding domains on the net. If the case is argue on the basis of trademark, has Mchost trademarked it in the first place? If it has, the trademark will be more effective in protecting the words "MCHOST". NCHOST is a variation and not a actual violation.

BTW rackspaces.com leads to tophosts.com

MCHost.com and NCHost.com...sounds similar.

Marc and Mac...also similar.

? What about Mac? :confused:

Originally posted by Byron
? What about Mac? :confused:

MacHost.com :laugh:

mchosting.com :laugh:

I don't really want to get caught up in this, but for what is worth, heres my two cents:

Marc didn't use bully tactics in that email. He did what anybody would do when they have a business they want to be as successful as possible. He politely informed nchost of the confliction. Whether it would stand or not in a court or WIPO I have no idea because I'm not a legal guru, but what appears to me to be the best solution to this is for the two parties to work together to find a compromise.

Despite mchost and nchost sounding a bit similar, there is also the fact that you could quite easily mistype mchost by hitting the 'n' key instead of 'm' as they are next to each other, and go to nchost by mistake. If they offered a better deal than mchost, then that's one lost customer to mchost. With mchosting, or amchost etc, this does not apply. In addition, mchost and nchost LOOK similar, and if you just glanced at one or the other, depending on how they are written, you could perhaps mistake one for the other.

As mchost only do reseller plans, I'm sure there is space for nchost to work alongside them, especially if they resell for them. Nobody wants a legal battle, nobody wants to fall out with anyone else, nobody wants to tarnish a reputation, and nobody wants to start off their hosting business with the complications this would involve.

So I think both mchost and nchost should talk about it and reach a compromise. If 6 months down the line nchost proved to be working against mchost, then maybe a case could be called, otherwise a lot of time, effort, money and business will be lost.

Ok, so it was more like 200 cents :stickout

Hehe, you mean 2 dollars ;)

I did a search at the US patent office and there was nothing. http://www.uspto.gov/. you can see for yourself. But they have been using the name. You have to prove that you use the name for business, Don't know for how long. Then you apply. They may be seeking to apply. Looking to add to there case.
From what I read at the site (very good site for information on the subject) URL's are quite hard to register.
well do a search there is no mchost and that is from the .gov's mouth.

Joe T.

Just to let everyone know in case you don't. According to the patent office you can not register the following.

http: .com .net .anything

i.e. if MCHOST.COM had a registered trademark it would be

MCHOST

not mchost.com you can't register a TDL (top level domain)

the MCHOST is the second level domain and can be registered.

just reading before I post.

joe t

Originally posted by JoeT
I did a search at the US patent office and there was nothing. http://www.uspto.gov/. you can see for yourself. But they have been using the name. You have to prove that you use the name for business, Don't know for how long. Then you apply. They may be seeking to apply. Looking to add to there case.
From what I read at the site (very good site for information on the subject) URL's are quite hard to register.
well do a search there is no mchost and that is from the .gov's mouth.

Joe T.
It takes up to 6 months for a trademark to appear in the online database, as mentioned in an earlier post. Not much more to discuss, i have already contacted the owner of nchost.com about this issue :)

And what did you tell him? Did you use more scare tactics?

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
And what did you tell him? Did you use more scare tactics?
:rolleyes: give it a rest.

I don't think kiwi is using scare tactics. You will be concerned too if you are in his shoes.

BTW did you take a look at wwwhosting.net?

Well i just wanted to make sure that the big guy doesnt bully around the little guy, sure case closed but if Kiwi wants to keep pressuring nshost, then i suggest to him that he take it to court

Everyone is a little guy and just want to make sure that everyone gets a fair trial... :)

Originally posted by Byron
I don't think kiwi is using scare tactics. You will be concerned too if you are in his shoes.

BTW did you take a look at wwwhosting.net?


I will go with my own advice, and contact my lawyer. I seen the site a few times, but really not that worried. After all

theres

wwwhosting.com
www-hosting.com
wwwhosting.net
www-hosting.net

i can go on and on and on and on.....Like others said in this post, you cant trademark a domain name

Aloha
man this thread is still going ;)
well in all views Kiwi has to despute anything that is close to his to keep his alive if he doesnt he can loose his name rights
(read trademark laws) so I got to back him %100 on this ya got to protect yourself

now on the real terms looking back sure he is doing this to have it in forms that he has exercised protecting his name

would he win I doubt it very highly but that is not the point here the point is he is trying to protect his name

I would not expect Kiwi to reply to these buy legal advice his attorney would say dont get involved.

so I know he has a large company (or so it seems) so I would have to say if a host company took the name trying to confuse that really sucks and is not cool to do but it happens if this is teh case I would take Kiwis side if it is just another name cause of his location etc... I would say to the NChost dont worry he is just taking legal steps that are needed ???
could be wrong here but think I am close ????

later

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
And what did you tell him? Did you use more scare tactics?

No, In Anyway.

As I have told in past, I respect Marc as a professional man and as a colleague. (I have been a programmer for about 14 years).

We are discussing the issue :)

I even may go with their reseller programs after this domain issues are solved.

Mac