anyone heard of 8host.com?
Their site seems very professional and plans seem very nice.

any comments?

Excellent question, their rates are VERY good, wow!

Any comments?

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but their prices seem too good to be true. It also seems odd that even though they're forecasting their revenues to grow to $75 billion by 2005, they've never been mentioned on WebHostingTalk (did a search).

I'm not trying to put down my competition, however, I don't understand why a company forecasting revenues of $75 BILLION would run off a server at Rackshack? :eek:

is that true... WoW
20GB Transfer for $12.99 for B2 in the shared hosting
Also I'm not sure about the word Unlimited in thier plans
someone should check it up..
:eek: :cartman:

Generally I don't think there's anything wrong with offering unlimited email addresses or other related services, as long as disk space and bandwidth remain limited.

But let's not get into that discussion again, it's getting old. :D

Originally posted by host911
is that true... WoW
20GB Transfer for $12.99 for B2 in the shared hosting
Also I'm not sure about the word Unlimited in thier plans
someone should check it up..
:eek: :cartman:


Well, one good host that I know is tera-byte.com. It's 20GB also but it costs less (about $9+). But my cousins and I love the service so far. The FTP speed is also great!

One of our sites is hosted there ( http://www.animeokashi.com )

Record last updated on 10-Dec-2001.
Record expires on 03-Nov-2002.
Record Created on 03-Nov-2001.

Their domain was just created on November 3, 2001.

They are like only a month old.

I have never seen them on this forum before.
But their site and plans seem good.

Wow, thats a HUGE forcast for a 1 month old company! Still no harm in giving them a shot ;)

Come on people..... no "normal" company would have a check out via 2CheckOut. It is toooooo expensive if you have some business going.

On their site:

"2CheckOut on behalf of 8HOST. Your payment will appear as 2CheckOut on your credit statement."

So, please be wise don't sign up with companies like this. It might be a 12 year old kid playing with his computer and tomorrow he gets another hobby and you loose your account
:)

PS $75 Billion is probably just $75 dollars ;)

Oh another thing... they lie:

"https://secure.8host.com/?package=starter3" & "You are connected to the 8HOST secure server"

Well you are NOT..... no certificate... they show the 2Checkout.com certificate..... be warned!

Actually, initially you're on a 'self-signed' plesk certificate (when you see that TOS). Then finally when you agree to it you are transfered to 2checkout.com

But when they say you are on a secure site, and your browser does not think so.... your information is not encrypted. ;)

Originally posted by addaction
Come on people..... no "normal" company would have a check out via 2CheckOut. It is toooooo expensive if you have some business going.

On their site:

"2CheckOut on behalf of 8HOST. Your payment will appear as 2CheckOut on your credit statement."

So, please be wise don't sign up with companies like this. It might be a 12 year old kid playing with his computer and tomorrow he gets another hobby and you loose your account
:)

PS $75 Billion is probably just $75 dollars ;)


On the other hand, after having many design clients get burned by hosts like Championhost (who have their "own" merchant account), sometimes it would be helpful if the biller is 3rd party especially when the host wouldn't answer your cancellation requests.

So far the only hosts I've really trusted who have their own merchant accounts is Aussie Hosts, Tera-byte (and maybe there are many other great hosts out there like these two).

we have our own merchant account :)

Originally posted by addaction
Come on people..... no "normal" company would have a check out via 2CheckOut. It is toooooo expensive if you have some business going.

So, please be wise don't sign up with companies like this. It might be a 12 year old kid playing with his computer and tomorrow he gets another hobby and you loose your account
:)

PS $75 Billion is probably just $75 dollars ;)


Bit harsh there perhaps?

Are you saying my company is not normal? what do you class as normal? 2checkout is an excellent way for a company to start out. I would see what your company's website and ordering was like if it wasn't down.


M:\>ping addaction.net
Unknown host addaction.net. ;)




So, please be wise don't sign up with companies like the afformentioned who are insulting and degrading 2checkouts image. It might be a 12 year old kid playing with his computer and today he got a new hobby and just shutdown the server? ;)

If you use 2checkout.com:

you either don't have much business with your business or you are not a smart entrepreneur....

or... you are not business enough to get a merchant account :)

Actually 3rdparty billers are nice :)

So i have to disagree with you here. There may be a hundred reasons why people may be using one.

Not eligible for a merchant account?
Not located in USA? or not served by international msps
it goes on and on.

I know professional hosting companies which use 2checkout + revecom etc.

~ASher.

Just to be serious...

It is not that every company that uses 3rd party CC processing is a bad company. The only negative thing is that everybody can use these services to accept CC. If they are a decent size business, it is a lot cheaper to have your own merchant account.

Thinking about the fact that everybody can get such an account and why they would not have their own merchant account makes me wander and personally I would not sign up for their service or buy something from them.

With so many webhosting companies you have to setup some criteria to try to get to some decent businesses and I think this is one of them.

Originally posted by addaction
If you use 2checkout.com:

you either don't have much business with your business or you are not a smart entrepreneur....

or... you are not business enough to get a merchant account :)

I don't agree at all. I can name quite a few hosting companies who are extremely successfull (in one case thousands of clients), provide excellent service, and use 2checkout or revecom.

Also some companies decide upon a 3rd party processor because they want to completely outsource their payment system, and not want to deal with merchant accounts and so on themselves.

So, you think that paying these rates:

$0.45 per Transaction
5.5% of Transaction Amount

is a smart way to host thousands of accounts? If you can get for example 2.2% and .10 per transaction?

Let say I have 3000 account for $9.95 per month.

Company A via 2Checkout.com pays:

$9.95 x 3000 = $29850
$29850 x .055 = 1641.75
3000 x .45 = 1350.00
Total = 2991.75

Company B with merchant account pays:
$9.95 x 3000 = $29850
$29850 x .022 = 656.70
3000 x .10 = 300.00
Total = 956.70

That is a difference of $2035.05 per month

Do you realy believe that a hosting company with that many accounts uses 2checkout.com?

You also didn't include 25 $ charges per charge back on the merchant account, and not as much protection against fraud so you will have even more charge backs. I would say they work out to be at least the same price becuase of haing to deal with all the charge backs.

look at some of the most talked about hosts like *****. i haven't checked but i am certain they have their own merchant account. Perhaps we should boycot all companies with merchant accounts because they are all awful webhosts! ;)

This industry is a sad story........:rolleyes:

Oh for those reacting this was my last post on this thread.... it is not worth the time....

Originally posted by addaction
Oh for those reacting this was my last post on this thread.... it is not worth the time....

If it's any consolation, I agree with you. I wouldn't do credit card business with an organization that can't be approved for a credit card merchant account.

I agree this post should end. However i feel my opinion is the opinion of many other hosts who for personal reasons don't/can't use their own merchant account. Perhaps i over-reacted in my analagy though i believe telling people not to go with hosting companies who use a third party processor is a tad over the line. Just my two pound coin.

Putting this post back on topic.

8host look to be a good company. The website is very attractive and so are the prices. I haven't used them personally though they seem to have things going well.

Hope things work out for you with hosting.

Regards,
Terry Jacobs

I just sign up for the host from 8host.com (I guess before I see this post) but I will let ya know how they are
:D

Merry Chrismas all

Good luck....:D

thanks
I hope so :D
their FTP seem like really fast
I do not know about the pages loading because my DNS not visible yet so.......can not tell
;) ;)

BTW, may I give one more shot on third party processor? In our country we cannot get a merchant account basically because we can't get one. Not because we are not qualified, but because it is only available in one place which is quite far and practically inaccessible. We sure hope to get a merchant account in the U.S. but can we? No, we can't because we are not allowed to have one. We are doing business outside U.S. So, what do we do? We have to process credit cards online. We use Clickbank! And who says, it is acting "cheap" or unwise? I mean, do we have a choice?

Now, going back to 8host.com, I have just learned they are using Plesk. I like Plesk. The packages are great! It is worth a try. After all, what's the use of that 30-day guarantee up there on their site? :)

Happy Holidays!

You said:

If you use 2checkout.com:

you either don't have much business with your business or you are not a smart entrepreneur....

or... you are not business enough to get a merchant account

_________________________

Interesting comments.
Do you have something to back this up?

We have a very diversified list of clients at 2checkout.com. Most of our clients realize that their business is in selling a product or service, and that is where their time is best spent.

Now, if I was someone looking for e-commerce development, I'd choose a company that had the ability to express themselves in at least rudimentary English. I'd also hope they'd proof-read whatever they presented.

TomD

tom@2checkout.com

I'm with Tom, I don't think companies should be judged on company size and professionalism by their processing company. We use 2checkout.com and we love them, they get back to our support requests very quickly and in a very professional manner. I can tell you right now, it is nice to have a whole billing department just by using their service. If our clients have any issues billing wise, its a matter of an email or a phone call and 2hcheckout's got it covered. I don't think we will ever change billing services because of this high level of service.

TOM D

You seem to have a problem with my English... would you rather have this conversation in my native language and see how you do?

Your service is too expensive for a "real" company... give me some names of any good size company that uses your service..... I prefer with phone # so we can give them a call how they could save on merchant services

;)

1. They do have their own phone number to call.

2. You pay the small extra per transaction for their excellent support and billing system, as well as them always being their to answer your customer's questions about their billing.

Now can your merchent account do that?

So, if you use this service you don't need any bookkeeping? That would be great......

Have you tried to qualify for a merchant account? and did you calculate the difference? With some decent business you can hire your own fulltime private bookkeeper.....

Book keeping? What does that have to do with what I said?

Did you read my previous post in this thread.....


So, you think that paying these rates:

$0.45 per Transaction
5.5% of Transaction Amount

is a smart way to host thousands of accounts? If you can get for example 2.2% and .10 per transaction?

Let say I have 3000 account for $9.95 per month.

Company A via 2Checkout.com pays:

$9.95 x 3000 = $29850
$29850 x .055 = 1641.75
3000 x .45 = 1350.00
Total = 2991.75

Company B with merchant account pays:
$9.95 x 3000 = $29850
$29850 x .022 = 656.70
3000 x .10 = 300.00
Total = 956.70

That is a difference of $2035.05 per month

Yes I read this, what does my last post have to do with Book Keeping?

To make sure your clients are billed correctly and if you do the bookkeeping required by law, you need to develop a billing system.

If you have enough business you can do this more cost effective by handling the billing yourself with a merchant account.

Of course you still do book keeping, but that was not my point at all. They take care of any questions our customers have billing wise, and if their credit card fails to bill they get notifications telling them to call this number or email to get an up to date credit card on file. I'm just saying its a great convience and they do a great job. I don't want to participate in this discussion any futher, I just wanted to explain to you the benefits of 2checkout.

addaction,

Obviously it is cheaper to use your own merchant account, so what is the point of this argument? Price is not the only factor when it comes to choosing a product.

Lets compare.

I) Setting up a merchant account.

To open your own merchant account, you need:
1. Legally register your company name in your State.
2. Open business checking account.

To open 3rd-party merchant account, you need:
1. $49

II) Feauters - pluses and minuses.

Own merchant account:
+ Ability to charge your clients credit card manually.
+ Your company name on appears credit card statement.
+ Lower transaction fees.
- Must pay for SSL Cert.
- Must have secure client database.
- Must handle all the billing requests.

3rd-party merchant account:
+ No need to buy SSL Cert.
+ Built in client managment software.
+ Billing support for your clients.
- No ability charge clients manually.
- 3rd-party's company name appears on CC statements.
- High transaction fees.

You can easily see both services compared, it is up to the company to decide which would suit them better.


Now, you said that web hosting companies that use 3rd-party are usually kids that will burn your pocket. That is where you are wrong. If you are a customer and submit your credit card via 3rd-party, it will NOT show your CC# to the owner of the merchant account, nor they will be able to modify or charge your credit card without your permission. Let's say you would like to leave and cancel your account, and the host does not reply to you. What do you do? Simply login into your billing control panel and hit cancel.

Let's say web hosting company has a full merchant account, like *****. You signed up, and CC was double billed. What do you do? Contact *****, does ***** care? No.

You are stuck, and want your money back. What do you now? Nothing, but file a charge-back.


I hope all the 3rd-party haters(?) would really open their eyes, and stop flaming decent companies because of it.

Do you really think that your company is better just because of your merchant account?


*You can all now flame me* :D

Here Here Bogdan!

TotalHst i agree with you entirely. 2checkout answered all pre-sales questions immediatly to me and continue to. 2checkout have outstanding service and quality. You are able to highly customise your ordering which is great because it makes your ordering look good. 2checkout are brilliant and i say keep up the good work.


addaction you can get off your high horse now :D

Originally posted by The Laughing Cow
Here Here Bogdan!

TotalHst i agree with you entirely. 2checkout answered all pre-sales questions immediatly to me and continue to. 2checkout have outstanding service and quality. You are able to highly customise your ordering which is great because it makes your ordering look good. 2checkout are brilliant and i say keep up the good work.


addaction you can get off your high horse now :D

Yeah, I don't know if Addaction had mad cow for breakfast, or what not...but really I don't see what this sudden 'web-rage' is about.

We use 2checkout, we are happy with them, we do not have thousands of clients -yet-, we have more than a dozen ;) and we feel that we should focus on our business. We like off-the-shelf software, even if we patch some of it now and then; no need to waste our time re-developping everything from scratch.
And, OF COURSE, same goes with credit card processing: we do not have to care about fraud checking or billing support. And in the end, we're saving a lot of money. Actually, Addaction, when you consider your employee's salary, your realize if they don't have to waste time on trivial billing issues, you are making money.

Originally posted by cyansmoker


Yeah, I don't know if Addaction had mad cow for breakfast, or what not...but really I don't see what this sudden 'web-rage' is about.

We use 2checkout, we are happy with them, we do not have thousands of clients -yet-, we have more than a dozen ;) and we feel that we should focus on our business. We like off-the-shelf software, even if we patch some of it now and then; no need to waste our time re-developping everything from scratch.
And, OF COURSE, same goes with credit card processing: we do not have to care about fraud checking or billing support. And in the end, we're saving a lot of money. Actually, Addaction, when you consider your employee's salary, your realize if they don't have to waste time on trivial billing issues, you are making money.

said it in one there my friend :)

Larger companies, such as ld providers often use 3rd party billing. It isn't the size of the company that matters. Just like anything else with your business... You can choose to do your own taxes, or your own payroll, but in some cases it makes sense to outsource this to another company (one who specializes in this sort of thing).

Addiction you aren't wrong, but you're not right either. ;) You just have to realize that there are other views on the subject. I personally have no problems using either way, so long as the company provides me with the services I paid for.

I purchase on the internet all of the time, and more than 50% of the time i've purchased from a vendor who uses 3rd party billing. I dont disregard their product because of that, if the product is good heck i buy it. Having or not having a merchant account doesnt not make your product better or worse (vice versa). I frankly find it easier to purchase from a vendor who uses something like revecom / 2checkout cuz if i get screwed over, i can easily ask for a refund instead of going thru a chargeback.

Just my opinion tho ;)

Ok, Ok, I see, I am in the minority and I'll get off my high horse (although the Arabian horses we have are not that high anyway :) )

There are some advantages of using a service like 2Checkout. com. It all depends on the volume of business you do. I would recommend them if someone sells a few products with low volume.

If a company is using them, it does tell that you are probably dealing with a small business with its pros and cons.

Merry Christmas everybody :wavey:

agreed addiction :)

merry xmas all :smash:

Originally posted by addaction
Ok, Ok, I see, I am in the minority and I'll get off my high horse (although the Arabian horses we have are not that high anyway :) )

There are some advantages of using a service like 2Checkout. com. It all depends on the volume of business you do. I would recommend them if someone sells a few products with low volume.

If a company is using them, it does tell that you are probably dealing with a small business with its pros and cons.

Merry Christmas everybody :wavey:

Well Addaction, as other post have mentioned there are good and bad to 3rd party billing.

I've been in businesses ( shipping, entertainment, consulting and investing) doing my own start-ips for about 17 years. The advantage of 3rd party anything is that:
1) dedication of you resources to getting the job done.

Now in the looks of 2checkout. It seems that they are good for a monthly cost of about $1900 or billings of about 32,000. That's about the same rate as a part time bookkeeper and accountant.

Now, I don't know about anybody else here but accounting takes up a good deal of time when you are starting up (account entry, checking statements ...) Using a firm like 2checkout, they save me a few headaches, I feel that I'm willing to give up a bit of my profit inorder to get cleared funds and reduce my billing headaches overall. When push comes to shove, money in the house (cleared funds) to pay the bills is alot more important than the money due (me having to input bills, run my own clearing ...)

Just my 2 cents.

side note: how many hands high are your horses?

-Sqposter / Michael

Originally posted by addaction
TOM D

You seem to have a problem with my English... would you rather have this conversation in my native language and see how you do?

Your service is too expensive for a "real" company... give me some names of any good size company that uses your service..... I prefer with phone # so we can give them a call how they could save on merchant services

;)

Lets look at reality.
You originally commented about the people using 3rd party CC processors.
Then you bad-mouthed the companies.

You went on even further to comment that the fact a company uses a 3rd party processor shows they are 'unprofessional'.

I pointed out how unprofessional you are. I pointed out that I'd personally never use a company that presented itself in the manner you did. Since I'd only be 'conversing' with you in English, your native-tongue means nothing to me on this basis. Remember, I was talking as a potential client.

We deal with Real companies. We have over 17,000 Clients. Each and every one of them has something to offer to the Inet community. For each of them, their business is serious. Your condescending attitude to their business is not a way to present your business in a public forum.

I would NEVER supply you with a copy of our customer database. I would never allow you to harass our clients with phone calls. The fact you'd ask, to simply further a silly argument, shows how unprofessional you are.

Respond or not, it really doesn't matter. The consensus of opinion here is that your comments are not reflected by others. The responses have covered a lot of the side benefits of using 3rd party processing. I'm proud of the company I work with, and the people involved. I know we offer a service that helps people to further their business.


TomD
tom@2checkout.com

Here Here Tom,

once again you said all that needs to be said.

Keep up the good work.

Terry Jacobs
Client name: Horizon Hosting

Tom,

It figures that you don't want to give any references of "real" companies, probably because you don't have any :)

I would prefer to deal with companies that express their concern for customer care, we don't like to see them burned by the many "one day fly" companies that use your service.

We have a different view about your service, but since you work for them, I can't blame you.

Originally posted by addaction
If you use 2checkout.com:

you either don't have much business with your business or you are not a smart entrepreneur....

or... you are not business enough to get a merchant account :)

Ok I admit I'm a lazy SOB. I use a 3rd party , they charge 7% flat rate, and there are several things that "I" don't have to do:

#1 store credit card information, I consider myself relatively versed in internet security and the thought of having to be responsible for credit card information frankly makes me woozy. With a third party you would like to think they've got as good or better security than I could muster. They're whole business rides on that security so I give them the benefit of the doubt that they're gonna have as much in place as I would and more, so why reinvent the wheel?

#2 create and maintain shopping cart code, things get updated, fields get added, fields get removed, it's just a pain, and another hassle I can do without.

#3 remember to bill my clients, recurring billing + 3rd party processor = LOVE, out of 170 customers (and counting) I have to "invoice" less than 5 of them, this is one thing I've seen literally eat the profits up from other companies I started (for other people) and that was the "spending money to chase money" syndrome of having to do your own recurring billing. This alone is worth the extra fees over having a merchant's account to me! Once you start counting customers by the thousands not the dozens, this will be worth even more.

Hell yes I'll pay that 7%, yes I will tolerate a 3 week or so "break" between the customer paying and me getitng the check (twice a month).

I use orderbutton.net and paypal for my billing, plus I readily accept mailed in checks/mo's and other payments. Haven't heard one complaint yet. It frees me to do what 's important, support my customers and make sure the servers are running :D

Originally posted by TomD



We deal with Real companies. We have over 17,000 Clients. Each and every one of them has something to offer to the Inet community. For each of them, their business is serious. Your condescending attitude to their business is not a way to present your business in a public forum.

I would NEVER supply you with a copy of our customer database. I would never allow you to harass our clients with phone calls. The fact you'd ask, to simply further a silly argument, shows how unprofessional you are.

TomD


It's not violating anything to give out a customer list, especially when you are proud of what you provide them. A lot of companies have a "customers" sections.

8host.com also claims it's hosting some large and known companies and I really like to know who they are. That only adds credits to their hosting business. I am still waiting for answers on the "8host good?" topic.

For 2checkout, as long as you don't give out the contact info, it's not your responsibility when addaction calls or writes to your clients. if you are afraid that your clients will be convinced to have their own merchant acccount, that's another story.

Originally posted by ebird


It's not violating anything to give out a customer list

Well that depends, doesn't it? In most cases it would be a clear violation of the privacy policy most hosts have listed on their page.

Besides that, there is also the matter of ethics. I can't speak for everyone, but I for one find it highly unethical to provide a third party with customer details without the customers permission.

hi, pilgrim,

you are right. It's not an absolute thing. But in my opinion, most solutions providers will be more than happy to put names like "microsoft", "oracle" in their "customers" section, if they realy get them as customers.

Of course I am not talking about the service from people like psychologists or lawyers who need to keep their mouths shut about their clients. But are they allowed to tell others who are their clients? Not sure.

again, I said I thought it should be OK to give a list. a list only, not details.

Hi!

Seasons Greetings to everyone!

Giving customers list may not be violating if you ask their
permission first. However, as a matter of privacy, you don't
usually give it out unless it is agreed upon. Try to double-check your site's privacy policy especially on giving out personally identifiable information. You may be violating it yourself.


Originally posted by ebird


It's not violating anything to give out a customer list, especially when you are proud of what you provide them. A lot of companies have a "customers" sections.


:)

ebird, if Bill needs new hosting and he chooses our company I'll call him and offer him a 10% discount on the monthly price if we can mention in our advertisements that we host microsoft.com :D

And you can be very sure I'ld casually mention in every post that I would make "oh, btw, did you know we also host microsoft.com?" ;)

I'ld still ask him for permission though.

Originally posted by consul
Hi!

Seasons Greetings to everyone!

Giving customers list may not be violating if you ask their
permission first. However, as a matter of privacy, you don't
usually give it out unless it is agreed upon. Try to double-check your site's privacy policy especially on giving out personally identifiable information. You may be violating it yourself.

:)

I would never give out the name of any customer without at least a verbal "ok". In some ways it can be seen as "using them" for advertising or self promotion. For that reason alone I'd ask before listing someone as a customer.

dixiesys and pilgrim and consul,

I agree with you guys.

Basically I don't like the "NEVER" that the 2checkout guy used here (on this page). He claimed addaction "unprofessional", and I personally think he IS unprofessional. He doesn't know how to handle different opinions.

This is a topic about 8host and 3rd party service. My point is, if you can't provide a list, "over 1700 customers" and "large and known companies" means nothing. If you do have some large customers, ask their permissions to put them to your customer list. If you do have it, but you don't know how to or don't want to utilize it, hire or fire the marketing guy.

Listing several known names as your customers are much better than just telling people you have large and known customers without any evidence.

happy holidays.


:)

Originally posted by addaction
Tom,

It figures that you don't want to give any references of "real" companies, probably because you don't have any :)



Funny that you say that.

I'm right now registering with tomD company. Given I don't have 25K in weekly billings but I got enough.

Sqposter / Michael

I don't like where this thread is going.. can anyone say OFF TOPIC? I request this thread to be closed. Addaction has done a good job making this thread so off topic. Why would anyone want to give out their customer list to some guy on the web that thinks he all great because he uses a merchent account to process credit cards *Eyes widen, mouth drops open* Think about it guys! That's like demanding Host Rocket to give us their client list, what do you think people would do with it? Possibly email all their clients to join up with their service. Not to mention I don't think anyone wants their information given out on the web without their concent. Enough damage has been done close this baby up.

I'd be careful with one month old hosts if you know what I mean. They tend to flux for the first few months and rates and costs change. I've watched a few new hosts and they most always will change things around, so don't get drawn in yet... I'd wait a few months.. at least half a year before considering them.

I went to the site and was pretty amazed to see such packages offerred. As long as they maintain their services I don't think there's any trouble by using other programs to charge people. BTW, have anyone register and use their services? Please share your experience ^_^

True but if everyone followed your advice I'd be out delivering pizzas for money rather than running what is turning into a successful web hosting business!

Yes I have changed around a lot of things, but not prices for current customers.

(I swear I submitted this already and it ain't showing up, wierd)

I'd try to split the thread, but I think it would be impossible, so I'll close this and people can open separate topics as needed.