hey guys, i am kinda new to the hosting business but i am very interested in it. i understand the word oversell, but not how it applies to webhosting. if i get 5gb from a host for example, and i choose to sell it in blocks of 100 mb, is that overselling? at what point does it become over selling.

what are the disadvantages of overselling?

thanks

No that is not overselling.

Overselling is when your host has 80 GB of space on their hard drive or 1000 GB of Bandwidth and sell packages with 5 GB of space and 50 GB of Bandwidth. Those hosts that oversell will have more then 160 accounts on their server and are banking that everyone won't use their space and bandwidth.

Risky business because eventually people do use it and sites become more popular using up more bandwidth.

It is basically selling more bandwidth and space than you have.

Yes, basically. Then there's always overselling of the CPU processing capacity, which can happen even if you don't oversell bandwidth.

There's many types of overselling but most importantly:

Host Overselling - This is what Gary outlined. The host is selling more than they have to offer and they are counting on not everyone using all their alloted resources. This can be bad especially when the hard drive gets full but most importantly it affects the CPU and slows down the server.

Reseller Overselling - This is where a host allows a reseller to oversell there resources. I believe this is a good feature for resellers as long as the host is not overselling as it allows a reseller to get the most out of their plan. However, an overselling host hosting overselling resellers is a recipe for disaster. :)

Generally I am against overselling for resellers. If there is any overselling it should be done by their host and the reseller should benefit because of the lower prices. I fail to see a reseller worried about server stability, but I do see resellers trying to get the most for their money (meaning use the account to the max). ;)

The unlimited domains + overselling enabled for resellers can also mean trouble.

Tricky business this reseller hosting thing. :)

so how do you know if your host is overselling?? i mean suppose they do have the resources to offer such bandwidth, how will you know the difference?

as a reseller, how do i oversell? i understand that it is selling more resources than you have available, but at what point is it considered overselling? is it just a judgement thing? i mean suppose i were to offer 50 mb worth of space instead of 100mb and got twice as much clients...would that now be overselling? the concept seems kinda easy to understand as well as vague at the same time.

thanks guys.

Originally posted by NexDog
However, an overselling host hosting overselling resellers is a recipe for disaster. :)

:dunce:

Originally posted by vyder
so how do you know if your host is overselling?? i mean suppose they do have the resources to offer such bandwidth, how will you know the difference?

as a reseller, how do i oversell? i understand that it is selling more resources than you have available, but at what point is it considered overselling? is it just a judgement thing? i mean suppose i were to offer 50 mb worth of space instead of 100mb and got twice as much clients...would that now be overselling? the concept seems kinda easy to understand as well as vague at the same time.

thanks guys.

For reseller purposes, it's basic math

If you have available in your reseller account
1000MB Disk space
15000MB Transfer

and your only package that you sell is
100MB Disk Space
1500MB Transfer

and you sell 10 plans on that account,
10 * 100M = 1000M
10 * 1500M = 15000M

so when you have sold 10 plans your account is 'maxed out', but not everybody uses thier full allocation (although at these small size plan probably close), so you sell another plan on the account, so now you have sold 11 plans,
11 * 100M = 1100M
11 * 1500M = 16500M

now you are overselling, because you have promised more space and transfer than you have.

If you're a host rather than reseller, you also need to take into account how many sites your server can sustain.

wow...excellent example gogocode. i truly understand the premise of overselling. however, how do you know that your host oversells? how do you find out how many reseller accounts on each server etc...the details.

thanks

You never really know, but at some price points overselling is bound to be in place. Usually the lower the price the more overselling.

It depends on the customers that you're hosting. If they're not the type that use all of their space and bandwidth then you can oversell by a small amount, as long as the server load is reasonable.

Originally posted by vyder
wow...excellent example gogocode. i truly understand the premise of overselling. however, how do you know that your host oversells? how do you find out how many reseller accounts on each server etc...the details.

thanks

Just ask your host,
BTW, overselling is not that bad .

I am overselling and look: load average: 0.03, 0.01, 0.00 (2cpus) this is the current stat and at peak times its 0.50MAX .

As long as you give good support, and know how to handle and manage your server, you wont enccour any problems overselling.

Gil.

I've never understood the 'resellers can oversell' concept.

Not to step on any toes here, but isn't a hosting company that allows overselling, then overselling themselves?

If 15 resellers oversell their disk/transfer allocations, then the server is oversold whether the host directly did it, or not, right?

Maybe i'm misunderstanding something here - we've never checked that lil' old check box in cpanel that says 'allow overselling' - and have no desire to. The same goes with H-Sphere, which offers much more flexibility though, as with plesk.


Zoneserv - that's about as bad an image to throw out, as you can get - give it a break. We get the message, you're an insane overseller, and proud of it - it's just a shame that barely any of your resellers know they are getting gazoomped.

$50 for 1800GB on a shared (nocster) server - give me a break.


Simon

Originally posted by IHSL
I've never understood the 'resellers can oversell' concept.

Not to step on any toes here, but isn't a hosting company that allows overselling, then overselling themselves?

If 15 resellers oversell their disk/transfer allocations, then the server is oversold whether the host directly did it, or not, right?

Maybe i'm misunderstanding something here - we've never checked that lil' old check box in cpanel that says 'allow overselling' - and have no desire to. The same goes with H-Sphere, which offers much more flexibility though, as with plesk.

Simon

Allowing your resellers to oversell, means you are overselling :)
1+1=2.

Gil.

Originally posted by IHSL

If 15 resellers oversell their disk/transfer allocations, then the server is oversold whether the host directly did it, or not, right?


Not *really*, no, in a way, maybe, but, look at this simplified example.

Host's server total available disk = 1000M, transfer = 15000M (I know this ridiculous for a level-1 host, but for purposes of illustration), he sells exactly 10 plans, of 100M/1500M, the host is not overselling.

Now, one of those plans oversells thier account by 10%, (they sell say 11 * 10M/100M plans), the reseller is overselling, but is the host overselling? Not really because the host has only promised to his customers exactly what he has available, it is not his concern that level-3 customers of his level-2 customer have been promised more than his customer has available, nor is it of concern to his other level-2 customers that one among thier rank is overselling, thier accounts are unaffected.

BUT, lets say that particular level-3 customer sells 100 * 1M/15M accounts, they are not overselling, but it is possible that those 100 account put load on the server in different ways (increased memory usage for the webserver to manage those 100 domans, increased processes, perhaps increased CPU usage....), it could be in this case that while not technically overselling, the server could be oversold in terms of 'sites' it can handle. In this case it is the responsibility of the level-1 host, the host who physically operates the server, to ensure that the server is not overtaxed in this way.

So the first case above, is of no concern to anybody except the level-3 customers of the overselling level-2 (and then, only if the level-2 doesn't pay attention to the probably short-term server usage of his clients and make sure there is enough available for them to have a buffer in which they may increase available disk & transfer with no interruption to the customer ). The level-1 is not overselling and the other level-n's are not effected.

The second case is of concern to everybody on the server (except perhaps the level-2 in question who just doesn't give a ****); the responsible level-1 will see that this level-2 is overtaxing the server and take appropriate action. However, responsible level-1's won't let this situation happen in the first place, by pricing & designing thier plans with sensible limits in terms of Disk & Transfer (which tends to turn away those problem level-2's), and activly monitoring

Remember that oversell is more about promise to deliver more than is available, than about what is available itself. And that overselling, properly managed, is a non-issue. By properly managed, I mean that the level-2 always ensures that the chances of totally running out of space in thier reseller acount are very very low, and that should that happen then the time to increase that account is very very short.

It would be a good idea for an overselling reseller to keep minimum of perhaps 10% of the total size of thier account as instantly available free space/transfer, when the server usage increases so there is less than 10% of the account free, buy more space, the chances then of your customers having a problem are slim indeed.

Originally posted by IHSL


Not to step on any toes here, but isn't a hosting company that allows overselling, then overselling themselves?
Nopes. If a reseller reaches their limit, you can cap them if the server can't handle anymore. If the host is directly overselling, they can't cap accounts that haven't used the resources that they've paid for.

There is a very large difference. One has control, the other does not.

Well... We allow our resellers to oversell but we reserve 30% of thier package allotments for upgrades if further upgrades are needed and the server does not have the resources then the reseller will then have the option to move to another server where we may be able to upgrade the account and have an additional 30% reserve.

So in my opinion as long as the Host dont oversell the reseller overselling should not be an issue .. with proper monitoring as has been stated above several times.

Regards
-Lee

You can eliminate the worry for overselling by your host if you choose a host that Automatically Load balances their shared servers. This will prevent the server resources from being over used, because, regardless of how many clients are on the server, once the server resources are using 40% of their capapcity, the next customer would be added to a new server, preventing those resources from being overused. You could still have the ability to oversell your resources in this type of solution depending on the type of system they are running. Some systems would allow you to manage domains on different servers all from one reseller account. You just have to be specific with your questions to these possible hosts and get a better understanding of how they manage their shared servers.