I've been putting a business plan together for a web hosting company for a while now and have been wondering, is a good website design worth it?

I've been quoted for sites like thinkhost.com and dollarhost.com for around 3,000 dollars. However, for hostrocket.com type of site the company that produced it quoted me 40k.

I was wondering, will a flashy design like think host be worth it in the long run? Will it attract more customers? Is it better to just whip up something that looks half decent and expect it to sell while just spending the other money on advertising?

Thanks,
Brian

Unless there is someone here reading this message who works for a psychological insitute who have done a scientific research into the matter you'll probably end up with a lot of replies with personal opions.

Why does a customer who visits several different sites with the exact same hosting plans/prices choose for company "x"?

I'll be damned if I know. If I figured that one out, I'ld be doing even better then I am doing now ;)

Well, for MY personal ideas: my own site looks like it is half finished and not professional at all. The half finished part is because it is...half finished. I was still working on it when customers started to sign up, I had to work on domain registration, backups, a registration system, getting a tax id, yadda yadda yadda. So the work on the site stopped and I never really picked it up again.

Does my "simple" site design cost me customers? I dunno
Does my "simple" site design help get me more customers? Beats me.


I "think" it scares away the customers who think a professional site design equals a professional company, yet I also get reactions from customers who signed up because my site "was definatly different from the rest of the hosting sites"

In the early days I did have a small form on the frontpage that said something like: "you were here, but did not sign up? Fill in this anonymous form and let us know why not and help us improve our plans"

Well, during the first week 3 customers used it to sign up for hosting. Unfortunatly it was anonymous, so we couldn't contact them :rolleyes:

Took it down:D

Simply put, yup

Yes. But I think infrastructure and support is more important(or
should be).

A good website is one of the important parts to the site. You want something that doesn't make the could-be customer want to leave for some place more visually pleasing. However it's more than just a good layout, the site has to have just as much effort if not more effort put into the content. Make sure you have a good Support section and contact methods available as well as a link to the Terms of Service at the bottom of all the pages (at least).

I agree. You should have a link to your tos/aup.

I figured that support and reliability came first over a nice design. Thats why I'm thinking about rackspace.com for a dedicated server. From what I hear you can't go much better than that.

Personally, I would never buy hosting from a company with a poor website. In fact, a poorly designed website with cheap prices makes me even more cautious. I would make sure that the inexpensive company has a good track record. Contact clients, browse their websites, and make a decision on your own.

YES, it is SO worth it. We just bought a template(by the way, buy a template not a whole site design, save tons of money) from relyc and it was Grade A. Our signups have doubled since we got it. I always knew we had a bad one, just never knew how bad. Get a GOOD template and be willing to spend around 150 for it.

who is relyc?

I think a good webdesign is really worth the investment.


Originally posted by davidb
...I always knew we had a bad one, just never knew how bad...


lol@
i was thinking the same, our hosting site ( url is not the one below :D) the design is over a year old and i made it myself and thought it was an okay design, turns out some people thought it isn't. So, we just hired a talented webdesigner do re-design it for us, i hope it will be a good one :)

http://wizardshosting.com .. Cost 0.00 :D (the advantage of beeing a designer) brings in quite a good revenu

http://datacolo.com .. cost .. err .. Brings isn QUITE a good revenue.. :D

Kidding Aside, we have pixelbrick doing datacolo .. and even so I think I coudl do a good job myself, it comes a time you got to shell out quite a few bucks and get a good desing .. customers ARE attracted to flashy and good lookign sites //

If you don't mind me asking, about how much does a pixelbrick design cost. Are you looking in the $10,000+ range?

I asked PB for a quote once and they said $10,000 but I talked and talked and talked until they went down to $5,000 so what you have to do is tell them that you will promote their services and add a link on your site and they will give you a brake. I ended up getting someone better, much more money but better work.

Originally posted by regier
If you don't mind me asking, about how much does a pixelbrick design cost. Are you looking in the $10,000+ range?
What exactley is a pixelbrick design?

pixelbrick.com they are a web design company but I will use PointOnWeb.com a million times before I use pixelbrick

I'd have to say i'm quite impressed with pixelbricks Hostrocket design, real flashy stuff there. Though the site is still not complete, well, bits of text that were meant to be changed, haven't been changed :)

PointOnWeb also look very talented. I'd use them both :)

Hrm... for a site like hostrocket.com I talked to pixelbrick and they said $40,000 for that site. That seemed very high for me.

Then when they said without the flash it would come down to $20,000. Now do you really think that, that little flash animation is worth 20 grand?

Brian

Hostrocket had 30.000 customers before they spend all that money on sitedesign. They can afford it.

When you have to adjust your monthly hosting prices to a higher level because you want your customers see a good looking site there is something wrong with your business plan imho.

As a hosting company just starting up, you shouldn't even concider paying $ 3000.- for a site design.

Build your company first. Get customers first.

The dotcom business model: build a huuuge office center, hire hundreds of people to man the phone, run ads on tv, newspaper and radio and then wait for the customers to start rolling in.

And...they didn't come. And... the dotcoms went out of business because of the huge overhead.

Don't fall into that trap. You'll know when the time has come when you can afford to pay big money for a blow-your-mind sitedesign. This isn't it.

Personal opinion...

A straightforward, clean and professional design that's carefully covered all the bases is more likely to make me take my credit card out than Flash music and animations.

Flashy graphic intensive sites work great with webdesign firms, but webhosts should have focus on information. Reliability and support aren't really going to be seen until the customer signs up, that's for the second impression.

If i'm looking for a hosting plan, i'd be more likely to stop a $40k site from loading before anything worthwhile appeared. I'm certainly not going to have the patience to wait for it.

For $40,000 you should be able to hire a good web designer full time for about 6 months. And there are a lot of them out of work right now with the IT slump.

Certainly $40k is pretty exceptional. But as I just commented in another thread a big part of the difference in working with a firm like pixelbrick as opposed to having your 13-year-old nephew do your site, or buying one of those $125 templates from the "related offers forum" is customer service.

In web design that means analyzing the client's business and that of their competitors; analyzing traffic patterns of their existing site if they have one; conferring closely with the client on their preferences and advising them where appropriate. It means usability studies, testing and debugging; it means site copy that's compelling, professional, and actually successfully sells your service; it means a site that's designed from inspiration to installation to be search engine friendly as well as user friendly. And it means some other host isn't going to email you or post to WHT in a month screaming that you stole their site!

My words of advice are: Keep costs down until you have found something that makes money.

Once you are earning money, invest into that with a good, professional design. Make sure to tell the designers that you want 100% originality too, just to be safe :)

I never said that I was going to have someone copy a design that I like!

I also have an investor with a lot of funds, so if I do a good ad-campaign and have a nice design it will be within my budget.

Brian

Originally posted by bitserve
For $40,000 you should be able to hire a good web designer full time for about 6 months. And there are a lot of them out of work right now with the IT slump.
That is true and I don't know why HR didn't just do that?

40K is too high for a site design.
I'm sure you can come up with something between 2k-5K and have a good looking site.
A lot of good business practices involve avoiding unwanted expenditure.
Have a great day :)

regards
amar

Apparently the 40K design didn't even increase Host Rocket's signups by very much

Aloha
hmmm
well HR paying that much was it no that that is what a company siad it was to build or did HR say it was that much ???

my thoughts you need a site that works well and is easy to navigate and sign up with before flashy stuff but flashy stuff can make people feel better so it has its place

$40,000 can be reasonable to build a super high end site
creativity is time
most of these $100 - $300 tmeplates in my opinion are kind of sucky a few look ok but they are not a system that will work as well as a well made site for $3000 but you get whay you pay for ??

I would have to say a well made site that is easy to navigate and sign up is only part of the biz plan you need to support your customers etc.....

Hi !

I did a search on templates in various searchmachines, and finally understand how the www works :)
No more overhours working for me.

But what i found were mostly free or almost free amateur like templates. Can anyone advise me where to look for a bit more professional exclusive templates ? I don't mind spending a couple of hundreds, as long as it is what i'm looking for.

Any suggestions ?

For 40K they are probably paying another professional designer to do it and pocketing about 25K, at least thats what i'd do if you payed me 40K for a web design :D

Originally posted by dutchie
But what i found were mostly free or almost free amateur like templates. Can anyone advise me where to look for a bit more professional exclusive templates ? Check the related offers forum here. Often there are offers for pre-designed templates, or if you don't see one or one you like you can post a request there.

The site design is everything in my opinion. If you have a good easy layout you willget more customers. Thugh paying more that 300 for one i crazy. :D

Originally posted by vibehosts
The site design is everything in my opinion. If you have a good easy layout you willget more customers. Thugh paying more that 300 for one i crazy. :D
I concure. HR was a little much to pay $40,000 for their design

It seems me and net solutions agree a lot lol

I've actually been taking to some experts on web design and they say that $40,000 is probably the lowest they'd bid on a project such a hostrocket.com. When you think about it, look at the amount of flash and backend that they have. They have an entire ecommerce and control panel system integrated into their site.

I would never be able to afford a site like that; I'm just saying that prices that high are not unusual for a site of that caliber.

Brian

Hi!

Reading this thread makes me feel and think that there is future for us web designers. Boy, I hope I can get that contract worth $40K. Anyway, I can't aspire for that now. Got to build our portfolio first and prove our worth.

The point of having a good design makes a lot of customer is almost correct. But, somehow good design does not mean good service. Correct me if I am wrong. I mean hiring a web designer to do your site design is one thing; providing excellent service to your web hosting customers is another. A good design does not necessarily imply excellent service although it may.

But, when you do think of marketing, the design really helps in getting customers to sign up.

:)

Well, the Hostrocket site LOOKS great - but try viewing it in a window smaller than 800x600. Pretty shoddy design if it blows up under 800x600, if you ask me.

As for site design, well... I'm a designer / developer, so obviously I believe that a well designed Web site (and not necessarily a "flashy" one - the two aren't inclusive) really, really does help.

There are hosts that have godawful design that are successful (http://www.pair.com/ comes to mind) but a lot of these companies owe their success to word of mouth.

Let's put it this way: a well laid-out, clearly designed site never made a customer decide to not sign up with someone - a badly designed site, however, can. Because your first contact with clients is through your Web site, making a good first impression is probably pretty crucial.

As for the $40,000 price tag? For what they've got there, it doesn't sound totally outrageous - on the expensive side, but not totally unreasonable when you take into account the high level of graphic work on their site. Don't forget that finding one single person that can i) design layouts, ii) do graphics, iii) do flash, iv) do back-end programming, v) write / edit for the Web, and vi) have the experience and understanding of what works online and how users interact with Web sites (and do them all as well as a specialist or team could) is nigh-impossible.

You might be able to find someone that does SOME of those things well.. but all of them? Good luck.

Just my 0.02.

best,
Neil

Originally posted by Pilgrim

As a hosting company just starting up, you shouldn't even concider paying $ 3000.- for a site design.

Build your company first. Get customers first.

Pilgrim,

How does a company "get customers first" when they don't have a Web site?

Or, do you know people who will do site designs for 100 bucks?

Yes, there were a LOT of big design companies who charged a seemingly insane amount of money to support their staff of 200 and their Aeron chairs and their refinished loft spaces...

But at the same time there are small, nimble design boutiques with a small, dedicated staff and low-overhead. $3000 isn't outrageous AT ALL for a Web site design.

Sorry, but that drives me nuts when people who don't have to LIVE on their design work for a living say ridiculous things like: "Oh, no site design is worth more than X". Web design is an occupation just like anything else; there are bills, and overhead, and staff to pay, etc., etc.

Neil

LOL, site design works both way though, you can have a top of the range site like HR.com, at $40,000 and people would probably get their credit cards out to buy. But on the other hand, I think that many people would ALSO get their credit cards out for a site that is VERY basic, not as in an unprofessional site done by a new kid, but one thats has all the information as text/HTML with appropriate links to everything, just a nice logo and a good HTML layout, spelling out simplicity! Now that'll cost very little, do the HTML yourself and then pay a few hundred dollars for a really cool logo.

So in answer to the topic of this thread "Is a good design worth it?", well yes, but a good design DOESN'T always COST.

Alan

Heh, its kind of like this:

Would you go into a store that has broken windows and dim lighting in front etc... Or would you go into a shop that has a nice looking store front with a warm welcoming appearance.

In my opinion having a good design is the first step to having people stay at your site. If you can get them to stay long enough you just might get a sale.

Brian

Originally posted by ho247
Now that'll cost very little, do the HTML yourself and then pay a few hundred dollars for a really cool logo.Unfortunately too many people do try that route and come up with a pretty unappealing site. Because sure you just need some basic knowledge to be able to "do the html yourself," but what an educated and experienced designer will bring you is an understanding of usability requirements, an ability to put together a sensible layout, to use color effectively, etc. Those elements are the weak points of a great many sites.

And many "do it yourself" sites suffer greatly from my pet peeve, terrible copywriting. When I look at webhost sites (and, sadly, many web design sites) the thing that strikes me negatively most often is that what should be effective business communication instead is typically full of grammatical and spelling errors -- and often just doesn't make sense. To me this cries out "small operation, low budget."

Originally posted by JayC
Unfortunately too many people do try that route and come up with a pretty unappealing site.

<snip>

And many "do it yourself" sites suffer greatly from my pet peeve, terrible copywriting.
Excellent points. What I always tell clients is this:

Everyone uses cars, and cars have been made to be easy to use - they need to be, because automakers want automobiles to be accessible and usable by everyone. But, there's a lot going on "behind the scenes", whether in its inherent design or in the actual mechanics of it that go on unbeknownst to drivers.

Many people are really interested in cars and learn how to maintain (and even build) them on their spare time, but generally speaking, if you want work done, you bring it into an expert.

I hate making analogies, but unfortunately it's what many people understand. Still, the point is this: much of the same concepts applies to Web design. Front end design: the dashboard, the body, the various displays. Backend - the mechanics of the car, the gearbox, the engine, etc.

I agree: the quality of writing online is atrocious. I've seen way too many Web sites (some with excellent designs and well-built back ends) that suck because the company / client left writing and editing the content as an afterthought. There's nothing that shoos clients off faster than a poorly spelt Web site with awkward grammar.

In fact, I would hazard to say that a site's content and writing are equally as important as the site's look and feel.

Happy Holidays, all!
Neil

That HostRocket site is certainly nice,

but -

no contact, not even a form - wouldn't make me feel comfortable

Even for $40K they still have spelling mistakes on the site

True.. that a lot of the 'do it yourself' sites are not very good, they usually are not even good. But I was actually talking about myself, I have expierence in designing websites, but I'm not *that* good at doing the graphics, so a plain HTML site would do nice with a logo. But speaking about others, I've seen that most of them that are done 'in-house' are very bad. It just depends if you've got the basic design skills, not the basic HTML skills.

Alan

Spending more than $1000 for a newbie business is simply insane. start off with a neat template which you can get for 100 bucks. Once your customer base grows, get a better and better design each 3 months ;)

Aloha
well yes and no on the dont spend more than a thousand to start ???
in teh retail biz I had years ago I started with a very low budget of 20,000 within a few months I had to get another $20,000 but within 1 year we were the largest skate and snowboard dealer on the westcoast making a little over $500,000 a year on skates alone if I had started with only a thousand would not have made it.

remember internet biz is no dif then any other biz you start the rent is a bit lower but on the downside your target audience goes way up so to reach them you have to put in way more time.
just some thoughts ;)

Originally posted by ^Kyo
Spending more than $1000 for a newbie business is simply insane. start off with a neat template which you can get for 100 bucks. Once your customer base grows, get a better and better design each 3 months ;)

There are hosts that have godawful design that are successful (http://www.pair.com/ comes to mind) but a lot of these companies owe their success to word of mouth.



Hey Im a designer too I really think pair.com's design sucks to the core. I can design a better site than that blindfolded.
But how dya know it is successful??

We paid 1500 for our site after 1.5 years in business. Not that we had a bad site before, but a lot of our information had changed, and we just kept adding on links and what not and it made for a bad site. Oxona did a pretty good job, most of our customers emailed us saying they liked the new design, but I would not HIGHLY recommend Oxona. They're good, but they're not the best ya know?

I think HR's design is fully worth $40 000. Most of you say why don't you hire a webdesigner for 6 months or even a year for 40k. But the thing is that pixel brick is not a one man company! I'm sure HR have thought of hiring a webdesigner but for most companies, they would trust a firm rather than a webdesigner.

Hey I'd work for you full-time for a year for $40K! :p

If you'd wanna take your chances with a freelance interface designer, please.. gimme a shot! ;)

Pilgrim,
Sorry, but that drives me nuts when people who don't have to LIVE on their design work for a living say ridiculous things like: "Oh, no site design is worth more than X". Web design is an occupation just like anything else; there are bills, and overhead, and staff to pay, etc., etc.

Neil

Neil,

No arguement there. But the simple truth is that I just put it on a lower priority. Let me put it like this:

I have a watch. $ 2.99. Plastic. I need it to tell me the time and so it does. But there is nothing fancy about it and some people maybe frown upon me because I have such a cheap watch.

The watch is not worth more to me at the moment. I have to spend my money on other things like my pension fund and my healthcare insurance which "I" at this moment find more important.

Now this statement will probably drive the people from Cartier nuts because someone who doesn't live from making expensive watches makes the statement that he doesn't want to pay more for a watch. Because Cartier has bills, and overhead, and staff to pay, etc., etc.

Simpy put, you are selling a product that I simply cannot afford at this moment.
Maybe $ 3000.- isn't much money for you, but to me that is 3 full months of salary. We do not all live in the US you know

Pilgrim,

What you are saying is something like this: You want a site designed but do not have the luxurious budget for it at the moment. You simply want a functional website for the moment, one that will fit your budget. Quite reasonable. In other words, you want a startup website for a while so that later on, when you do already have the money, you will be able to buy the "more expensive watch". That is what I understand from what you have posted.

Now, about the $3000 site, the reason of the costs maybe overhead. Yup. But hey, for some people not living in the United States, it is not just 3 months full salary, it is almost a year!

:)


Originally posted by Pilgrim


...
Simpy put, you are selling a product that I simply cannot afford at this moment.
Maybe $ 3000.- isn't much money for you, but to me that is 3 full months of salary. We do not all live in the US you know [/B]

Exactly! :)

http://freesitetemplates.com/

I don't know if they have any good ones but they are free and you don't have to put a link on your site or make any referance to them at all. They have a few hundred templates.

So just take a look it might just be worth it, who knows

I have not used any of them and don't no anything about the providers.

Joe T

I just looked around a bit more they seem to have alot of good stuff. I gather that is is a starving web designer site. You take what you want and make a donation.
Worth a look no matter what.