A link to Claire Gunnels staff member page at Cy-Fair College, part of North Harris Montgomery Community College. (Harris is the county in which the Gunnels live).

http://faculty.nhmccd.edu/cgunnels/

Need proof that infocache is one of the few Gunnels sites still running? Check out the page http://www.infocache.com/faq.htm. Look right down the bottom of the page at the link to their Accepted Use Policy. It links to a page at fidpac.com!! (Now dead, of course!!)

Well, I guess I'll chime in too. Since around 2000 or so, I've been hosted on and off (by on and off, I mean I always pictured all of my downtime as being some cruel bastard with a switch trying to see how much downtime I'd actually take before paying for the 'upgrade'). Well, I've been in the middle of moving myself and now that I've settled enough to call Steve because my sites have been down all week... I find I was scammed. Big time.
Oddly enough, I think I was one of the last. It's odd timing on my part. I emailed Steve curious about getting onto a cPanel server. He responds thusly:


DJ -- good news --- we are upgrading our servers to full Quad Xeon webservers with CPanel
Control Panels --- please give me your phone number and I will call and discuss options, ok?

Thanks

Steve Gunnels CEO
Super.Nu Webhosting
--
hmmm; asking for my phone number- I'm thinking to myself, finally I'll get to actually speak to this person who never seems to answer my emails unless I'm offering money or threatening to leave.
So Mr. Smooth calls me- and offers me a sweet deal- 7 more domains and 7 more GB to put me at an even 10GB, for $299.
Now, I've been a super.nu customer for years- I was one of the first to go to the SDS or lifetime servers. And I remained loyal, even after he sent an email to EVERY ON OF MY USERS telling everyone about his great new server. You can imagine the emails I got the next day- every one of them wondering how this Steve person got their email.
So I've taken up the binger for the past two years, getting no service and generally just hating life- so much so that I've operated my really important sites off a friend's generosity on a real server with cPanel. I've used the space on super.nu that I had for projects and mass storage of my song demos and various other things. You can imagine that I now just really love having sites like sg-records.com just because they have that bastard's initials I'll likely have guilt by association. But I'm getting outside my story (anger does that to me)...
Anyway- who could resist? 10GB and even more space to resell! So I said yeah, go for it and gave him my credit card info. I get a response back that he's sending his 'tech' the word to set up my new site. Happy Deej. 10GB! Woo hoo!
So, I begin getting my new business venture ready to go- I've already spent something like $120 on new domain registrations for it, and well- it goes on; but I won't.

A little while later I get an email with the new site information. (in Gunnels time, a little while is at least a day- no exceptions here).

So I check out my new site, and hey- DUAL Xeon (not Quad) and ... 500 MB with no shared domain controls! WTF?

This is on July 1st. I'm a busy guy- I don't have time to chase down people. So I email Steve and get this response on July 4th, 2005:

DJ sorry -- tech set this up as standard -- I will need to add the space and bandwidth and
the whm (SDS) access --- did you have a preference for password? Steve
---

Maybe my response of 'youreanidiot' was out of line. (I'm kidding)

Here's the response from Steve:

DJ at the moment CPanel is repairing their auth servers and thus I can't
get access to the Control Panel to make these changes. Would tomorrow
be ok? Sorry for the delay, could you pls remind me tomorrow? Thanks
for your patience. Steve

This is almost the last communication I got from Steve- but right around this time, I noticed that all of my databases, archives and of course email is gone. Just gone. Schnit!!! Emails about this go unanswered except on July 10th:

DJ - it is now urgent to change the DNS, the old server is being retired...Steve

--
Great- just great. Retired? Try frickin GONE! By the time I got this email it was already too late. Near as I can tell, this is when Steve bolted. Why do I think this? keep in mind more than 7 days have gone by, and this is the response I get from Mr. Smooth:

Should be done shortly. Steve

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 7/10/2005 at 3:13 PM DJ Eshelman wrote:
Okay- but did we get the SDS account set up?

-DJ

---

I have been fighting dry heaves all night as I've been reading this forum. I do have a backup somewhere that includes email up to around this time last year- but anything else I've archived is just simply gone. Along with nearly $700 for 'lifetime' services. Lifetime. Maybe lifetime meant his lifetime. I'd tell you but all of my records of that were on that server. Man, I feel stupid.

I will, however, say this.

If you are running a business that is web-based; be wary of what you pay for. This is the lesson I take a way from this. Steven Gunnels offered no uptime guarantees. No warranties, and no real means of contacting him. I can't escape the thinking that he just lost his mind trying to support this business for what he was charging people- but at the same time, I think of all the Spam over the past 6 years I've gotten from him claiming how successful he has become. I feel no pity. None.
Bottom line- this is what can happen in the world. A good deal is just what it looks like, no more, no less.
You can't buy a $.99 cheeseburger and expect it to come with just the right amount of ketchup. You get what you get.
If you're trying to make money on the internet- I'd make sure you're hosted with someone you can knock on the door of, or that gives you something in writing.

As for Mr. Steven H. Gunnels, if that is his real name, I don't want to jump to too many conclusions. I know simply that I paid for something I did not receive. Value judgments aside (I'm not going to play God, ultimately) I just want to be able to move on from this. I don't want to loose any more sleep or not be able to trust anyone ever again with my web presence. I just want closure.

I'll keep monitoring this board and the "Gunnels Collective"- if anyone needs legal proofs or anything, I'll provide them without hesistation. I'd love if someone was in Houston and could verify if this person has left or what. Maybe try signing up for one of courses... I dunno.

Justice will be done.

-DJ of the Starving Guitarist Company (formerly sgc-inc.net)

Ouch, we need to take this guy down, he's giving a bad name to web hosting in general.

You know, I forgot to mention that I tried to contact ProPay, the vendor who Steve used for processing credit cards- and they would not help me. I'm sure that once Visa starts retracting charges it will get their attention pretty rapidly. I'm in the process right now of filing a complaint at the iccfbi site....

Hi DJ - that's a very sad but, unfortunately, familiar story. Sounds like you had more recent contact with Gunnels than most of the rest of us. Can you please give me permission to copy your story, as posted here, on the "Gunnels Collective" site?

Same goes for everyone else on this forum. Thos who give me permission to copy their stories from this forum for publication in the "Gunnels Colective", please respond here.

Thanks.

You got my permission...if I posted it...I'm losing track. :)

Hey DJ, you wouldn't happen to have the phone number he called you with? I would like to see if it matches the other ones he has used.

Thx.

delahoc, you have my permission.

As they say the plot thickens......several posts back Cybergigi asked who to contact in Gunnels local area to complain and this I got from an early on posting.

Allyn Lynd
FBI
One Justice Way
Dallas, Texas
972-559-5500
alynd@fbi.gov

He returned my email promptly and I have followed up with information that he requested.

ya he rang me 2 at the start of july but i missed his call just as well i did probably would have paid him more money to run away with

ratterrier, that number is no longer in service.

tjbailey: Send Alan Lynd an email... I think we all should!

P.S. I wonder if Lynd cound't order the hardisk at Severmatrix to me left unwiped? I mean it's probably too late, but most of the incriminating evidence against Steve would still be on there... no wonder he was in a hurry to have it wiped.

Christoff, I agree.

I just wrote my letter and hope to get even some type of reply............ anything at all.




Originally posted by Christoff555
tjbailey: Send Alan Lynd an email... I think we all should!

P.S. I wonder if Lynd cound't order the hardisk at Severmatrix to me left unwiped? I mean it's probably too late, but most of the incriminating evidence against Steve would still be on there... no wonder he was in a hurry to have it wiped.

List of websites hosted at Super-Hosts.com

Some of these websites are still running. Some are not. If they are running, it wouldn't hurt to try to contact them to give them a heads up. If they are down, then just wait a few weeks and try to contact them to see if they are back online with a new webhost and then contact them to let them know what happened.

You can get their emails from their websites or a whois search.

If anyone knows any other nameservers that were used, let me know and I'll look them up and add to the list.

http://www.sandangel.com/masterdomainlist.htm

You know it is great to have those domainnames but who has the time to go through them all and get the emails? I sure do feel sorry for them but I had no idea there were that many out there. As far as I know only box 50-51 is up and running still. I check it several times a day and as of today is still active. If we only had the emails it would make is so much faster to contact them. We had heard rumors so we did jump Steve's ship and moved. Thank God the rumors turned to be truth.




Originally posted by rhaasch
List of websites hosted at Super-Hosts.com

Some of these websites are still running. Some are not. If they are running, it wouldn't hurt to try to contact them to give them a heads up. If they are down, then just wait a few weeks and try to contact them to see if they are back online with a new webhost and then contact them to let them know what happened.

You can get their emails from their websites or a whois search.

If anyone knows any other nameservers that were used, let me know and I'll look them up and add to the list.

http://www.sandangel.com/masterdomainlist.htm

Allyn Lynd is alive and well and I spoke with him. The number ( main desk I think ) is
972-559-5000

He answers his email too.

If someone is knowledgeable about writing a small application to take the list, look them up on a whois server, scrape the owner emails, and send an email to each one then maybe this list will be useful.

Otherwise you can use it as evidence for law enforcement to show the scope of the problem.

Looks like ns.54 and ns.55 is down now, unless they are resetting the server. If it is unplugged, that is sure to bring another wave of activity.

ratterrier, I did email Allyn and received a response that he is forwarding all inquiries on to Dallas.

bigbison, I agree. We sure don't need any hosting spammers now.

Add our name to the long list of people apparently scammed by this guy Gunnels. We had our web site with besthost1.com for 4 years and then along comes Gunnels this past June saying "your site is up for renewal." We were expecting to renew. As it turns out, it appears that Gunnels had stolen the account from this other guy at besthost1.com (Dan) and Gunnels was out to scam us. We renewed with Gunnels' company and service was there until this past Saturday when our site disappeared. Every domain, email and phone I have for GUnnels are all now non-operational. I sent the FBI contact listed in this thread an email about this. They are trying to determine if Gunnels is a fraudmeister or just a bad business man. Meanwhile, we paid our two year renewal fee via Paypal so we are working with them to see if we can get our money back.

The biggest hassle is reconstructing our site from backup files. Its a real pain. Fortunately, we were using off-site Guestbooks and counters and we didn't lose any of that.

I think it would be great if we could share updated info on the whereabouts of this guy Gunnels for possible legal actions. The one number I had for him was 877-231-9303 which does not appear to be working anymore.

Best of luck to all that fell prey to this guy.

Shaun Maher aka Yukon Jack
Destination Doo-Wop - now hosting with Yahoo!

What was your nameserver at besthost1? You're not on my list.

http://www.sandangel.com/masterdomainlist.htm

Hi Raasch....I just checked your domain list link....wow what a number of sites. Just do the math and it is staggering. I did not find my site listed on ns52 etc.....is this because I am now over at Network Solutions or should you have me on that with all the others? Just curious. I and still learning about hosting.

You had probably already moved by the time the data from the report was generated. I'm surprised I'm still on there. The data must be a couple days behind.

:angry: Time of Death :angry:

20:31 gmt

Well it appears that box50/51 has finally been turned off { i am praying that i am wrong} but it looks like i am not wrong :bawling:
Anybody know for def????

Steve gunnels I hope you can run fast :gone: cause i am going to get you!

You inconsequential piece of crap, I hope you get everything that is coming to you. Ten fold! :flamethr: :uzi: :bomb: :dgrin: :hammer: :bkick: just a few of the images that come to mind when i think of you steve!

Good Afternoon You All,

I also have been ripped off by S. Gunnels. I have been a customer of his for about 5 or 6 years and had LIfetime hosting and had recently upgraded to the silver plan when I was told we had to exchange serversfor my science fiction club's website: blacklance.org. My site has been down for over a week now and I now fear from you all's posts that it is lost.
I really had not had any problems other than pestering e-mails saying that my site would be deleted if I didn't renew and I would always write back that I had lifetime hosting and Gunnels would say ok. A couple of times he charged me twice for service but when I told him he would rectify the situation.
I had a problem once when a member tried to hijack our site and his representative Barbara Hatchens would assist me. This was when it was Ultra-Host.Net and here is the ICQ info. ICQ Number : 53-994-129
Name: Ultra-Host.Net
NickName: Ultra-Host.Net!
Address: USA
Company: Ultra-Host
Work Phone: 1 877 724 ,9245
Work Fax: 1 603 804 ,0269

Also Barb is my tech contact for my domain registration. Here is my info from Who is at Network Solutions Technical Contact :
Hachten, Barbara
ultra-host@ULTRA-HOST.NET
PO BOX 1133
BUFFALO, NY 14225-8133
US
Phone: 1-877-783-1448

The only other trouble I have had is site downtime and when I switched to the new servers my BB was lost and our FTP for annoy D/L of files. Then our e-mail for sending via Outlook would not work. I have been trying for days to get someone to help me but my e-mails and phone numbers do not work.

Now I am out nearly $1000 (prorated for my lifetime hosting start time) and I am trying to put the site back together when some friends agreed to host it for my club. I am not sure if I will get it right but am trying. This was NOT the way I planned to do my vacation. I will be glad to participate in any legal means to bring this person to justice.

Kaye Downing
Blacklance.org

Originally posted by gaywaterford
Well it appears that box50/51 has finally been turned off
Well, if so, we wait for people to gradually move to new servers and then email them to inform them of what is happening.

Well sweetie. I think you are so very right. I just checked the site we had left on that box and the one site we left up is now gone. This is what the lawyer has been wanting to know. Angry? You bet.! Pissed? You bet! there are a few other feelings I have about now too but can't type them in here. He is a piece of work for sure.. I have proof of how bad things were for him now. He took money from my son like 45 days ago and I know there are a lot of you out there in the very same boat as he is. Steve knew he was going down, it is not that he is a bad businessman hahaha.,, just a joke, OMG I would love to get my hands around his blasted neck about now.



Originally posted by gaywaterford
:angry: Time of Death :angry:

20:31 gmt

Well it appears that box50/51 has finally been turned off { i am praying that i am wrong} but it looks like i am not wrong :bawling:
Anybody know for def????

Steve gunnels I hope you can run fast :gone: cause i am going to get you!

You inconsequential piece of crap, I hope you get everything that is coming to you. Ten fold! :flamethr: :uzi: :bomb: :dgrin: :hammer: :bkick: just a few of the images that come to mind when i think of you steve!

Hi rhaasch, Im in the middle of signing up ith a new host now, i thought i had until the end of the month only to login less than an hour ago to find that my server was gone now i have to find in around €150 for 1 months hosting and to sort out all my domain names aaHHHH

Well, at least you had a chance to do a backup. But yeah, moving is always a pain.

I suspect Steve has been monitoring these forums. I'm gonna see if I can find his ip address in my server logs.

Reply with quote Modify message Remove message
I'd signed up with Steve about 4 years ago and had a few problems here and there mostly with email server downtimes and beginning in June I started getting multiple emails from Steve at all my email addresses stating that the server my webspace was on was being retired and I had the choice to update to the new lifetime servers for a hefty fee or be down an indetermined amount of time until they could place me on another server and that I may lose some of the features I'd already paid for. I emailed him and told him I could not afford his prices and I don't even have a bussiness site so I don't make money from my site and I also reminded him I had recently paid $199 for renewal and $89 for spam/virus etc. He then called me June 21 and said that since I was a "long term" user with him that he would give me the new servers and lifetime hosting for just $299. I guess I was pretty stupid as I accepted when I should have ran, not walked away. Needless to say my CC was charged for $299 that day. After a few days I started having email server downtime again so I emailed him and got no response. On Friday, August 5th my site and email went down and found super.nu all down, email to him bounced and his phone had been disconnected or shut off. I was amazed to find the wealth of information about his scam activities and now feel even more stupid for not researching him more first. I've now moved to another webhost and after 3 days finally have email back again. I've sent in a form to my CC company disputing the $299 charge and will have to wait and see if I can get it removed (they would do nothing over the phone).
Just a reminder...This guy potentially has everyones passwords for email, ftp etc so when moving to a new host please use new passwords...


Dave

Originally posted by rhaasch
You got my permission...if I posted it...I'm losing track. :)

Hey DJ, you wouldn't happen to have the phone number he called you with? I would like to see if it matches the other ones he has used.

Thx.

I wish- I am pretty sure he gave me the toll free number- I am, however, asking Qwest for a call transaction detail so I should have it within the week or so if I have the time. The big issue for me is exactly that- time; like most of us- taking time out of our day to chase this down is probably costing more than the services themselves- probably what Steve was hoping in the first place.

Oh, and as for quoting, that's fine- I may just do it myself to add effect. I signed up for an account on that forum right after posting here, but I honestly didn't sleep much last night- this whole thing invaded my dreams. Steve Gunnels invaded the sacred spot where only Jennifer Connely should be.

I'm creeped out because I swear I've seen the man before but I can't place it. Freaky.

Onward- however, I did (just as I'm typing this I noticed this) get an email from Allyn Lynd- he is looking for any of these victims in a certain area (Dallas appears to be his jurisdiction)- so he is in fact forwarding these on to Houston. I do applaud Allyn's well treatment of this issue- seems like many other things have gone unanswered completely.
He did bring up a good point- we do have to determine that there was criminal intent, not just poor business running. It's a hard case to make since criminally except that there was such a big push to get all of our money in July and a sudden disappearance within a 30 day timeframe. Odd.
I have, of course, yet to hear from Steve- just thought I'd add that for posterity.
I have also recieved confirmation of the complaint at iFCCFBI, but frankly I've seen postings referencing that going back 5 years. I somehow doutbt their action level is high enough unless perhaps we were all to report a claim at once- I'd gather as much data as you can from the entire length of time you were in 'business' with Slick Steve and have that well prepared.

Hopefully the whois dns records from the nameserver list can help you narrow down the regions affected. Its gonna take some time but it should be a good starting point for you.

thanks kacee

Originally posted by rhaasch
[b]List of websites hosted at Super-Hosts

If anyone knows any other nameservers that were used, let me know and I'll look them up and add to the list.

www*sandangel*com/masterdomainlist*htm

hey rhaash, nice work finding this...i knew there were alot of domains on his servers, but never realised the scope was that big! over 500+ sites alone on ns50/51!!!
i remember steve spam-mails stating server slots where limited to 100 - hurry only 2 left!

i did notice that one of the many servers i was on isn't in the list: ns9,super-hosts,com - i think that was one of the 1st ones to go down?
site = it-designers dot com
----------------------------------------------

looks like 50/51 are officially gone! glad i did have some warning as my most precious sites were there! whew!

my list to date of r.i.p. fidpac sites: 6

Y'all, I noticed that ns53 was not on that list either. That was one of the two he gave me. And from the number of sites if he had continued as he started out he still made a LOT of money!

Mr Lynd is right that they have to prove intent and I am sure SG is figuring that is somewhat hard to do. The fact that a great number of us were charged twice, no refund makes for very pricey web hosting. It is not a crime to overprice so there is another gray area...you know, a sucker born every minute. The really mean thing was not to notify anyone if in fact he was going out of business. The sudden rush to scam us out of money etc etc......smells to me. But......... as Agatha Christie would note......the phone numbers don't work! And there are a slew of them including home phones. Keep digging folks.......

I found something! In my little book of passwords etc which covers 10 years, I found the info for my original Steve server. He was using

http://www.superhost.com

and the site is still running! That was where I directed my FTP at that time. Very interesting!

So, now it seems that Servermatrix has gotton tired of us persuing Gunnels and have locked the thread. Perhaps they think it's a bad reflection on them by association? I doubt they would be very cooperative in prosecuting him anyhow.

I have found an intersting page containing Complaints against Oregon Attorneys for 2001 January to June. Looking further down the page, I see a listing for "Gunnels, Stephen H.". Of course there are possibly more men by that name, still it might be worth looking into.

http://www.oregonshyster.com/oregonstatebar/c2001.htm

I have a sinking feeling that he might just get away with it all. I hope not. If it's true that he had copied and cashed the same check three times as someone had claimed, then he has commited fraud. That is a Federal offence... perhaps an international one. He has also extorted money by threats to erase our data if we didn't buy upgrades that we had already paid for and didn't need. And he has also breeched his contract by taking our money and then shortly afterward deliberately depriving us of the services we had paid for.
I rather think the FBI should conduct a very thorough investigation into his business affairs.

Lets keep our fingers crossed.

What Steve Gunnels really needs are several swift solid kicks straight to the crotch!!!
But until then why not enjoy this Top 10 List I have complied for ****s and giggles. 8)

------------------------------S.C.E.M.'s------------------------------
Top 10 Reasons Why Not To Host With Steve Gunnels!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


10.) His limited time only, bloated must have, unlimited, lifetime offers sound to good to be true... Because they are!

9.) His no nonsense total access to your funds approach, only sits well with clients that have 50 plus credit cards and own several homes.

8.) His greasy fat fingers have been genetically enhanced, to punch in your credit card number at 10 times the speed of the average tele-marketer.

7.) The speed of costumer response is entirely based on the amount of dollars that may be up for stake.

6.) His 100% iron clad satisfaction or your money back guarantee! Doesn't apply to new or existing customers.

5.) His deja vu server features will have you thinking again and again... "Didn't I already pay for that?"

4.) Not even a tapeworm would be comfortable with Steve Gunnels as a host!

3.) His lack of consideration is equally matched to the occurrence of his penile disfunction.

2.) He secretly wishes his velvety smooth dialog and deep pockets could work as well on the ladies.

And the number one reason not to host with Steve Gunnels... (***DRUM-ROLL***)

1.) He recently changed his name from: Steve Gunnels, to: Steve Runnels... - "Runnels!" - LMAO


At least he wont make nearly as much cash flow in prison renting out his bunghole,
then he has scheming all his customers! Can you say tender!!! OUCHY!
So their you go people I'll be here all week, so be sure to tell your friends! ; )

I have a site, bookitinc.com, which is on the masterlist of gunnels sites.

However, I also personally know of 2 more sites, as I am also involved with them.

to ns50, add pandora.ca
to ns54, add web2seek.com (my whois search on this site that I own, says there are 257 sites which were hosted on this IP address.

all of the IP addresses were hosted at theplanet.com, from whom he appeared to rent servers. They will say absolutely nothing.

missed this one

Good Morning All,

I seems like we are shotgunning things instead of being organized. Has anyone contacted an attorney over this and found out what our options are? There seems to be a breach of contract problem here. We need legal advice so we can take the proper legal measures.

Kaye

I think The Planet is walking on very shady ground. They know a fraud exists and willing disregard all of your requests to limit your lose. that would be cosider ading and abetting a crime would it not? ns42.bari-tones.com ns43.bari-tones.com are the dns that i was on.

I don't think you can hold the Planet responsible - their contract of service is with Steve, not with those that Steve re-sold to. It would be a humane act on their part to save the data of those who hosted through the Gunnels companies and give people a few weeks to save their files to transfer to another host. Yet, they have no legal obligation to any of us - and if Stephen Gunnels breached his contract with them or chose to cancel service then they don't have to retain the content of the servers.

Add to ns50/51 (skeeter63.org), and all it's sub-sites, of which smokekills.org is one.

When I go into details about my situation with Steve Gunnels, which I have briefly on another forum. It only makes me angry, bitter and full of hatred. I do not like feeling this way. So I complied the top 10 list to break up all the tension on this very heated topic.

As far as getting organized to bring legal action. My research shows this scam has been ongoing now for several years and not a damn thing has happened yet. What makes you think now will be any different?

P.S.
I posted this top 10 list at 4 different forums. I am not trying to promote here these forums are related to this topic. They are as follows:

gunnels.october.com.au - freewebspace.net - webhostingtalk.com and servermatrix.com

Apparently ServerMatrix has plenty of Steve Gunnels supporters because they keep locking any threads about Steve Gunnels as well as plenty of members chiming in their own worthless insight on a situation they obviously have absolutely no clue about. For if they were one of Steve Gunnels victims they would definitely be singing a different tune now! Ignorance Is Bliss...

servermatrix.com states quite clearly that it is a satellite of theplanet.com, so that's probably why they are locking down threads about Gunnels.

Good Afternoon,

I have made an appointment with an attorney for tomorrow at 11:00 EST to discuss this matter and find out what options are available. If anyone would like to send me furtherinfo on the Business Practices of Gunnels that would give me more ammo to buttress my agrument.
Also I would like the list of affected domains (I know someone has them), the experiences with the Planet.com.
Any suggestions on what questions I should ask would be helpful.
Iwill then post my findings. I am serious about this you all as I feel a breach of contract has been committed and it is going to cost me $100 to speak with this attorney so please help me. My site was just a club site that got messed up but I feel there is a principle involved here and unfair business practices have been used. I did not plan to use my vacation in this manner but Gunnels can not go scott free and hurt so many innocent people.
From what sites I have seen on his servers they appear to be hobby and fun sites and some business.

My e-mail is KayeDowning@msn.com

Originally posted by iambonz
I think The Planet is walking on very shady ground. They know a fraud exists and willing disregard all of your requests to limit your lose. that would be cosider ading and abetting a crime would it not? ns42.bari-tones.com ns43.bari-tones.com are the dns that i was on.
Am I the only one that noticed the coincidental shutdown of ns50 and 51.super-hosts.com just 4.5 hours after I posted the domain list and a request for help to email the people on those servers? That means a couple possible things. One, Steve is monitoring these forums, saw that, and called and cancelled the server right away. Two, The Planet is getting spooked about the implications and is trying to cover their butts. The way I see it is that someone somewhere is getting spooked and this is just more circumstantial evidence that proves things are being done in an unethical manner.

You All,

I have a question. I had an e-mail account on my site and now because Planet will not permit people to access their data are they not tamerping with the mail? People are being prohibited from accessing their e-mail.

Kaye

Kaye - CYE.

rhaasch, Of course Gunnels is watching this forum. No doubt about it. Most likely the folks at the planet are as well.

The planet is just the venue in this mess and have no responsibility or obligations to any of us. It is Gunnels who is responsible.

However, I also have no doubt that if records were requested for subpoena through the FBI or any other law enforcement agency, they would be quick to provide them. And those records may be Gunnels archilles heel.

"The team at superHost has been in the Web hosting business since 1995, hosting thousands of domains for hundreds of companies. Our client turn-over is next to non-existent, and we've never lost a client due to customer service or technical issues. References are available upon request."

This is a direct quote from Gunnel's site at SuperHost. The forum will not allow me to post the link, but it's the one ratterrior posted above. I want to laugh out loud, but I'm too sick to my stomach!!!

AJ

Good Afternoon TJ,

Let folks watch, we have nothing to hide. Our actions should be honorable, ethical, and legal. I just spoke with a customer representative at Planet. He was not helpful at all. All he says is to get ahold of Gunnels. Well, how can you get ahold of someone whose phone is disconnected and whose e-mails can't be delievered? Did not Gunnels breach his contract when he did not pay his bill? Would not now that contract be null and void?

Kaye

All day long yesterday I had the song "Take the Money and Run" going thru my head. I would just change out certain key names and it became that much more funny. Gosh, didn't even have to change the "Texas" part. I try to see humor in everything I can- however, with this, I think I agree that it's fine to vent- but getting the facts out there on a forum is not quite enough- action must be taken with law enforcement. I will not have adequate time until next week to contact anyone in the law enforcement realm. I have, however adopted a few practices.

-I email and attempt to phone Steve Gunnels every day. I will have proof of this from phone records and SMTP logs. I am also attempting to set up a system to record the conversation if in fact I do get a hold of Steve- though I doubt it will happen.
-I have logged a complaint at the FBI
-I have requested retraction forms from my Visa provider and will fill them out.
-I am composing a certified letter to send to the last known address for Mr. Gunnels (any legal advice on this is welcome, by the way- I haven't sent it yet awaiting that).
-I will be booting up a very old server of mine that I believe has email archives lost when theplanet.com removed ns9/10 which my original domains were on before the fateful move to ns54 where all of my data was pretty much lost period and never moved over for a proper backup.
-I will be composing estimates of how much physical up-front dollars I lost directly, pro-rated or otherwise.
-I will be estimating business losses because of this incident as well as others, and attempting to get written proof (testimony) that individuals did not do business with me because of this incident.
-I am moving to restore service to my domains and issue an official apology statement, as many of you have done, stating the facts of why the system was down [on this note, I did notice some rather scathing public notices out there, which is fine to a point, however keep in mind that we still do not have many hard facts other than the fact that dozens of us (spanning hundreds of domains) have had service unexpectedly disrupted for reasons yet unknown. It is appropriate to state with whom our services were formerly provided, but I would advise the speculation be minimal- I am editing my original statement this evening, but a continuation attempt must be proven.
-Documenting expenses and time lost attempting to contact Steve
-Documenting expenses in restoring services
-Documenting interactions and proofs of dis-service to others (online forms are fine, but written records are probably more advisable)
-Printing Emails from Steve and attempting to locate phone logs of when he called, etc

Anything else I/we should be doing?

-DJ

Kaye, you are right in theory. I have nothing to hide either and I am proud of my business practices and proud of my high standard of ethics. I have no trouble sleeping at night. If Gunnels had any kind of a conscience at all, he would be vomiting every night. His wife is just as bad as he is and they are bringing up their offspring to be thieves just like mom and dad. That's the worst part. Gunnels has a history of law suits dating back to the mid 70's. He's had a lot of practice.

DJ, great post. Documentation is everything. If you haven't joined http://www.gunnels.october.com.au/ - I would suggest you do so to submit your post and your complaint.

Originally posted by tjbailey
Kaye, you are right in theory. I have nothing to hide either and I am proud of my business practices and proud of my high standard of ethics. I have no trouble sleeping at night. If Gunnels had any kind of a conscience at all, he would be vomiting every night. His wife is just as bad as he is and they are bringing up their offspring to be thieves just like mom and dad. That's the worst part. Gunnels has a history of law suits dating back to the mid 70's. He's had a lot of practice.

Again- do we have proof of this? This is new to me. If we have proof of prior incidents, our case to the FBI and local authorities is much different!

I must get back to my other clients but I will follow up again this evening if I can.

-DJ

kaye let us know how u get on with the attorney

Does anyone have access to the Westlaw DB? Cases are in there.

His might be there. Also if we had more data we could look for public records.

Kaye

You have enough data posted in this thread to look for public records.

Use it at http://www.searchsystems.net and you will probably find what you're looking for.

I'll post some info later.

This should work. If it doesn't, I'll post modified step by steps:

Go to:

http://www.brbpub.com

Click on Public Record Sites on the left hand side of the page

When the next page loads, under

Free Government Public Record Sites

Click on State, County & City Sites

Click on Texas

Go to Harris County (they are in alphabetical order)

Click on - Harris County - Civil County Court Dockets

Select planitiff or defendant and type in Gunnels....this brings up the cases.

I'm forced to stick with the facts- there's a mention of Steve being called into court a few times in the past 30 years- but I can't make sense of any of that stuff. But don't let that discourage you. I am out of time for the day to spend on this, but if anyone else has the time- see if we can find out exactly what these charges were and what the result was- as near as I can tell they look simply like bad debts- which by the way doesn't help a case for fraud; only a case for bad business management. I'm trying to get a hold of a laywer in Denver who ows me a favor- he happens to specialize in 'e-Law' as he called it. As of yet, I haven't been successful. Seceretarys don't seem to understand the concept of 'He's an old associate' usually means that the person ows you something or another :)

Everyone try to get some sleep tonight- we're going to get thru this!

-DJ

Thanks for those legal links, TJ.

Yup, Gunnels legal history goes back a long way. First one I can see is August 1979, and yes, most of them appear to be for bad debts.

However it also pointed out to me how popular the name 'Gunnels' is down there in Harris County. Seems to be hundreds of different Gunnels running around down there, and most of them in and out of the courts!!

Just a few months ago, Steve Gunnels had been sending me "Extremely urgent, final warning" emails. Basically he said that my site gameoverdude.com was on a server that had been due to be retired from service, meaning the whole thing would go bye-bye unless I got with him regarding a server upgrade.

So, I went for the $199 deal. I hardly suspected a thing, but eventually discovered another $99 charge from super.nu who the first charge was with.

When word about the servers going down sooner or later got around, I made sure to get a current backup of my files and databases right away.

Soon afterward, my control panel access was kaput. I could still access the site but was certain that the axe would fall soon on it.

I've already switched hosts, but now I'm out $299. After a few unsuccessful attempts to contact Mr. Gunnels, I have gotten fed up. Right now I'm getting ready to mail some dispute forms to my bank in regards to the amount. I am not so sure it's possible to get the $999 initial outlay for my Lifetime Hosting back, but I'll settle for the $299.

Before this happened, I did get a message saying my site was up for renewal. I fired back an email telling Steve to check his records and that I didn't owe him another dime. Solved that problem.

Steve, shame on you. :angry: Just look at all the money you have stolen from people, and all the reputations you have put at stake. May you soon be in court, you thief.

After finding ns50 down and the Miscellaneous Submit form on sabrina.super.nu down too, I grew concerned today. Took most of this evening for me to slog through the whole thread, but it does seem like we have a fairly enthusiastic community here.

rhaasch - the master domain list at sandangel.com was long, and yet however it was built, domains named with numerics or characters like '-' within were not shown on that list. So there are (were) more domains hosted on these servers than appear on that list.

In terms of the size of the affected community, there may also be fewer of us than these lists might imply to some. I've been an LT client since late 2001, and stumbled into FidPac by way of Syonic after an earlier presence provider imploded [very much in this sort of way]. Part of the reason I used FidPac was to have no marginal cost on adding new domains, and as a result I've now got over 30 DNS records to update. Thankfully, I was skeptical about having FidPac do any registration services for me, and as long as the machine that I uploaded my GB of sites from keeps spinning, I've got a "backup". With LT hosting and two upgrades over the years, my mean cost to use FidPac has been a shade under $40/month.
So to have FidPac implode like this, I feel wronged, but mercifully not raped. ;^(

I'd seen a few postings about Steve G. and his shady ways, and yet I knew that I was looking for very light tech support from them, and once I was calibrated to "Gunnels time", I sort of accepted a compromise between level of service and cost against space and flexibility in tiers of service. I'd been through outages of up to 40 hours at a time, and as of yesterday I thought it was just another of those. But when sabrina.super.nu was not there, I started to dig.

So my point is this: I can vouch myself for about 20 domains on the NS50/51 list. If others like me have used FidPac for what they were reasonably useful for, as in hosting whole gobs of domains without affecting the hosting cost, then there may have been only about 5 to 25 of us on each of about 20 servers, and the size of our community might number only about 300 unhappy campers.
By that math, there may be only about the value of the Gunnels' homestead that has been taken in by FidPac over the past five to seven years.

It is not my intention to belittle any of our losses here, but I would like to posit that Steve & Co., on the run, may only really be in a position to get as far as Padre Island, and probably not someplace like Bora Bora or New Zealand. JMTCW

The Internet seems complex enough now so as to behave like a biological system. In the back of my mind, I hear echoes of Jerry Garcia---10 years gone---wailing "Death don't have no mercy"
Neither, sometimes, does it give any warning!

Colleagues,

I am sorry I am not able to visit my attorney today as I wanted to. I had another problem arise that requires prompt attention work related issue.

Kaye Downing

keep us informed kaye...

i think i have my new server sorted, decided to go with gatorhost in the end... after alot of research!

I am not sure if you have read what is going on over @
http://gunnels.october.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=50.0

I am in total shock that this MAN has sent his child in and said the things that are there. Anyone with a straight mind knows this to be untruth. I am too sick on my stomach to answer back on that forum. He is as low as a snake to have his youngest daugther write for him. This makes me sick. Dan has post a lot of the things he went to me the other night plus some. I think you can see there the checks that were written and the dates of them and the bounced to the ceiling. The is so much that thank the Lord Dan has in his posession. How can Dan pay for Steve's servers when he has hardly enought money for food and all and getting back on his feet after being shafted by Steve? Sure, I would love to see the 20+ gigs of space my son and I have on SDS Lifetime ............ Xeon boxes... would love to see it come back and all but if he lost all the data how is he going to know who has paid for what? How much space..... this is a tactic to buy time.. But Damn keep your kid out of it Steve, be a man and speak for yourself!!!!!

Yes sending in the child to do the clean-up is low. The one important thing she seems to fail to mention ( perhaps he never told her either ) is the he hit our credit cards multiple times WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION and that is FRAUD! I have moved on but I just want my money back. The bank has told me it can take up to 90 days for a charge back to come through so I am paying interest on that without benefit of service.

As for folks venting anger in a lynch-mob environment that is not smart. We all want him to get whatever he should because what he did was wrong and if he gets away with it ( which he probably will ) it just sends a mesage to all the other hosters in the world that you can grab what you want and get away with it.

I am curious what Harvard University sued him for long before the Internet?

why has this thing grown into the biggest thing in the webhosting world? don't webhosts do this type of thing all the time?

why has this thing grown into the biggest thing in the webhosting world? don't webhosts do this type of thing all the time?
No.

Zach, are you representing Eleven2 Web Hosting with that question?

Zack,

Are you really serious by that statement????? Crossing you off the list for webhosting...... thats for sure.......

Kacee, possibly he attended the Gunnels school of hosting ethics 101?

ha ha...
nah, but think about it. there are quite a few companies that are mentioned daily in wht, both big and small that go in and out of business. yes, this is the biggest issue, many people effected and many people scammed, but at the same time, even twelve year olds who have their own "hosting company" end up messing people up if they are "grounded" or whatever. perhaps i just read this whole story wrong, but that's more or less the information that i've gotten.

Hmm,

Why didn't Gunnels have the courage to post himself? I didn't think Dan was still working for him. Something does not track there.
I am not going to continue hosting with him even if he does come back on line. I am going to demand a refund.

Kaye Downing

Originally posted by Zach-E2
why has this thing grown into the biggest thing in the webhosting world? don't webhosts do this type of thing all the time?

An odd statement for a webhost to make!! :-)

As far as I know, Dan is no longer working for Steve. He has stated that he's not. I believe Dan quit sometime in late July. I also believe that this was a catalyst for the events that followed. Steve doesn't have a clue when it comes to running those servers, so I think that when Dan left Steve panicked.

I also believe that Dan is not the innocent victim he tries to say he is. Yes, it looks like Steve owes Dan a lot of money. But by Dan's own admission, he has known that Steve was a shady character for at least 2 years. In that time he continued to work for/with Steve and thus make money off of us *gullible saps*.

Even when Dan knew that servers were being shutdown, he didn't do anything to warn anyone unless we contacted him directly. Then he would tell you in a round-about way that something bad was about to happen. Intermixed with that warning was a lot of ramblings about how he was screwed and how he shouldn't have to pay for Steve's mistakes.

My opinion: Dan is nearly as bad as Steve for sticking with Steve and for not warning us ahead of time. Now that the sh*t has hit the fan, he's trying to make sure he doesn't get any on him by coming clean. If he had done so 2 weeks ago, maybe a lot less people would have lost data.

Just my 2 cents... Take it or leave it.

- Jason

Just chiming in here too. I can't speak as to when Dan knew Steve was a "bad egg" (scammer,etc.) or when he should have "warned us" but he did give some heads up, as my 51 server went dark the first of August and I got the following email below from Dan on July 12, 2005. I frankly emailed Steve and never really got a response. I did finely get my page transferred and back up yesterday but I lost almost 10 days.

********** Email from Daniel Levesque on 7/12/2005 **********

Greetings July anniversary date customers
and other BH1 folks

If your anniversary date is in July and you are due this month consider this
a renewal notice!

We need to talk...

BH1 HAS CHANGED!
CRITICAL CHANGES ARE BEING MADE NOW.
We are no longer affiliates
of the Hosting Services LLC Network.
(Many of you know this contact as Steve Gunnels)
who took your previous payments and allowed
the creation of your account on his network. BH1
responsible for the promotion of their services and a go between
for a commission, and email exchange only.
If you liked the service originally given by besthost1 to yourself
and no longer receive this due to upstream problems
you MUST read on. I would like to rectify this for you.

When you place a renewal with us NOW
you will automatically be upgraded
and placed on a NEW network. Just like changing
long distance carriers or changing doctors!
Don't confuse this with Mr Gunnels Network
and promotion of his Xeon solution.

This email to you is in NO WAY connected
to Mr Gunnels or his network.

The NEW network is NOT affiliated
with Our BH1 Parent (Steve)
We no longer refer renewals and sales to him
and no one should pay a renewal to him unless they desire to
stay on his network and be looked after by HIM only!
He will NOT Bill your card if you swing over to ServerConnectix,
NOR will he have any jurisdiction
over your website and it's uptime, physical
location on the network PROVIDING you
renew or make arrangements to get on
our NEW network through DAN dan@thot.net
or through the Connectix Website. No one else.
Again this is NOT Steves Xeons you have been reading about.

Your site WILL be migrated at NO COST
to our new network and have no association
with The Fidpac/Hosting services LLC (Steve)

We no longer provide services to anyone elses upstream.
We have procured our own server leases and manage our own systems
under OUR gudelines and rules which benefit everyone. You WILL
have Cpanel as we do NOT deal with Ensim panels anymore.

What does this mean for you?

***Better uptime than you have ever seen.. We prove it on our
new system using a third party service so you don't have
to take our word for it.

***You get my PERSONAL number and no busy signals! This hosting solution
so stable that I very rarely get calls!
Want to talk? Call me now 705-744-5217 (Dan)

***You get Cpanel (10s time better than Ensim) on Quad Xeon boxes
NOT overloaded as I have strict guidelines for this.

***You won't be pestered to move, upgrade and most of all
given a choice of upgrade or shutdown. We simply won't pester you at all !
You're busy and I appreciate that. If there is network maintenance
scheduled, you will be notified in your panel. I do NOT contact your
customers and you are paypal protected as I do NOT bill cards directly.
I leave that to paypal.

If your site is down currently, it is at the hands of Hosting Services LLC
and we are recomending that you come aboard with us at our new
location to prevent outages like these! If you were migrated to one of HIS
xeons,
it is NOT too late to make a jump.

Please forgive the old template as I'm not a web designer but be rest
assured it is NOT the same upstream and indeed a seperate entity.
ALL renewals must be placed through here now.... DO NOT
and I repeat, DO NOT pay any funds to fidelity or hosting servicesllc
or MR Gunnels in any way as he has NOTHING to do with Connectix and your
renewal of hosting. Simply go to ServerConnectix
BUT If you wish to remain under Hosting ServicesLLC network
and allow Steve to bill you from that network, we will NOT be able to
assist you or support you in any way shape or form. If you pay
them you will NOT be paying us as in all probability we will not receive
a commission from the funds you paid them therefore we cannot help you.


Pick a package that best suits your needs. Most people
are choosing one of the business packages.
If you have a current package that doesnt come close to your current
account, let me know and I will tailor something for you if possible
and we can communicate about the matter. Tweeking space and bandwidth is
not really an issue if the changes are minimal. Your needs WILL be met.

Either way, your hosting expereince will SKYROCKET into
a state where you will now be able to relax knowing that its up
with no suprizes giving you time to develop and enjoy.
We value Honest, Integrity and damned good service and
I can only provide you this if you are on my NEW network
and not on the current one being affiliated with Hosting Services LLC
(Steve)

If your site is NOT up for renewal right now OR is not up
and running, you may want to consider jumping over to break free of
the Hosting Services LLC (Steve Gunnels) connnection.
Contact us or simply place an order with ServerConnectix
and we will find your site on the network and copy your files over
and get your site up and running on the web today!

You deserve better and so do we!
Want ne to call you? Provide me with a number so we can chat about
your current sitution.
If you are calling me at the number provided above in this email
please call between the hours of 9am and 8pm Eastern

Regards
Daniel Levesque
BH1 Connectix

Jason, I understand what you are saying, but from what I understand, Dan was just the tech support part of the business, and not an owner or even partner, he was an affiliate just like me and 25 or 30 other people. No doubt, Gunnels most valued affiliate and probably with him the longest - but consider this - I'm trying to be objective here.. Anyone who has dealt with SG on an affiliate level for any length of time, knows what a shoddy halfass business man he is/was. Little or no support, well you know all the rest, it's been repeated over and over. What was Dan to do? Send out emails to everyone 2 years ago telling everyone to find new hosting, the ship is sinking? My thoughts are, if it wasn't for Dan, the ship would have probably sunk 2 years ago. Would that be better or worse than the sinking last month? I don't know. maybe Dan thought - just like I thought, maybe things will straighten out. I saw all the signs when SG sent me checks that bounced, intentional server failure trying to force me and my clients to upgrade, the crap spam he sent me AND over my head to my customers, etc etc etc. - yet, for some reason, I kept signing up new accounts. Several quite recently. Now I am personally commited to meeting my 4 year term obligations to them, each and every one, or starve to death first, if I can't.

At least we all agree on the main important points of this mess. I'm just saying I don't think it's fair to put Dan and Steve in the same boat. That's all I have to say about it.

It was noted in an earlier post that there have been many Gunnels in the court system in Harris County. Stephen Gunnels has resided at his current address since 1986, according to the Harris County Tax Appraisal District. To clear up any confusion: his parents are Ellis W and Evelyn Gunnels of 910 Daria Dr. Houston, TX and their home is presently valued at $309K. His father was in the oil/gas business in Houston.

Cute name by the way ----------

and your point is? His name IS in there many times. Way more than most would like to see theirs lol..... I know,not funny but he might be there again but with many more charges. I have to wonder how this big miracle is going to happen and our sites will be back as Mr Gunnels couldn't ever remember the box I was on, and with everything gone how? Is he a miracle worker all of a sudden?




Originally posted by willulaugh
It was noted in an earlier post that there have been many Gunnels in the court system in Harris County. Stephen Gunnels has resided at his current address since 1986, according to the Harris County Tax Appraisal District. To clear up any confusion: his parents are Ellis W and Evelyn Gunnels of 910 Daria Dr. Houston, TX and their home is presently valued at $309K. His father was in the oil/gas business in Houston.

The point was only to clear up which Gunnels were related and which ones not. Just another piece of information and everyone seems to need it right now.

I know dan did work for steve helping with the tech support issues, I had some contact with dan.

That doesn't mean that Dan knew anything about the books, or how steve did business.

When the owner of a storage business cuts and runs, do you go after the clerk that you always had contact with when you went there?

I am not saying dan is 100% innocent, but I for 1 am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

on another note has anyone seen if any of steves sites are back up. I believe Rebecca (steves daughter) said they should be back up and running in 24-48 hours on tuesday. It's more than 48 hours.

It wouldn't matter to me if they did come back up. I can't run a business on "maybe", or "sometime".

You all need to be more patient. I know from experience that its gonna take more than 48 hours to reinstall an entire server from scratch. There is a lot to do and then they have to wait for the DNS updates to take place. Don't forget they had over 15 servers go down. There's a lot of work that needs to be done.

Originally posted by rhaasch
List of websites hosted at Super-Hosts.com

Some of these websites are still running. Some are not. If they are running, it wouldn't hurt to try to contact them to give them a heads up.

Eight of my domains (brummet.com, brummet.net, brummet.org, brummet.us, sportsbroadcastpages.com, thegamelive.com, thegamelive.net and thegamelive.us) are on your list and they are all up and running... With a different hosting company though.

I moved all of my domains as soon as I found out what was going on to Cirtex Hosting who I am quite happy with. Luckily I moved all of my domain management over to GoDaddy earlier this year. I took awhile to get my original domain transferred, but I did get it transferred into my control. So went they all went dark I was able to get them up from by backups on a temporary solution before deciding to go with my new host.

I too am out a few bucks though I did get him to move to my domains to the "upgraded servers" at his expense since I had a long term agreement with him and his "retiring" a server was not something that I should have to pick up the tab for.

I guess I got off lickier than most. I figure prorating for the remaing years on my agreement, some renewals that never occurred and expense to move to my new host that I am probably out $250-$300. Nothing to sneeze at, but better than what I have read froms others.

I have moved my sites (bookitinc.com, pandora.ca) to Site5 because I liked the sound of their MultiSite package, and I am very happy with them in the first day. It was 3.5 hours from signup to my first site (bookitinc.com) being live, including DNS transfer, doing all the admin stuff, transfering in the files, setting up my mySQL databases. My sites are php intensive, and database dependent, and their versions of these tools seem very current. The only thing taking longer is transferring in 70,000 jpgs, but I am close after keeping 4 ftp sessions open all day. I had a couple of small problems understanding their panels, and emailed them 6 times for explanations. I got responses back by email quickly--the longest about 15 minutes, and they were clear, simple, and precise. I am still holding my breath, after the Gunnels experience, but I like what I have experienced so far.

We had lifetime contracts with Steve, relatively recent, so I would guess they cost us about $75.00 month for the time we were with super.nu. I'll write that off to experience, and I will never purchase long-term hosting again. I'll also always maintain off-site backup in case I have to rebuild.

Fortunately, when server 50 went down overnight a couple of weeks ago, I was aware of it, so when it came back up, we dragged full backups of each site to local computers.

Well, the August Shutdown was the final straw. I would not host my site with Steve Gunnels ever again. He can promise lifetime hosting again, but I'm not falling for it.

Learning some sleaze about Steve that goes back to 1999 makes me nauseous, considering I started up with him in 2002. I am leery of any "lifetime hosting" deals especially when the money is requested up front.

The Planet needs to be subpoenaed. Mr. Gunnels needs jail time- badly.

Sorry, I forgot to quote what Dan said in another forum. He said: I expect to be providing states evidence one day in Texas against him. I saw that coming and had been preparing for 2 years thus my silence on many levels. It was MY *** and my family's interest that I was protecting and I had no obligation to anyone to share what I knew that would help me in the long run and prove my case..

That means that 2 years ago he knew something was wrong with Steve, but still continued to work for/with him. Maybe tj is right... Maybe things would have been worse if Dan had left 2 years ago. One thing I do know... If Dan knew that the money coming into Gunnels was sometimes by shady methods and false server crashes, then he knew that he was also getting paid with shady money. For me, that would be an ethical problem and I would have found somewhere else to be a reseller. Obviously, Dan didn't have the same ethical dillema as he was just trying to help himself and look out for himself.

I completely understand that Dan and other affiliates got ripped off and I'm not try to belittle that. However, those who knew about Steve's business practices should not be so surprised by the fact that they didn't get paid. There are all kinds of reseller opportunities all over the web. Wouldn't be that hard to start signing up clients elsewhere without letting Steve know.

On the other hand, many of the people hosting sites on Fidpac are, let's say, more trusting/less informed than the affiliates should have been. Some were taken completely by surprise. That could have been avoided had Dan decided to be a stand-up guy as soon as he knew that the sh*t was going to hit the fan.

I see that he let his own affiliates know that something was going on and gave them the opportunity to pay his expensive hosting prices. He also let those of us know (in a subtle round-about way) that contacted him directly. But I think a more direct action would have been more appropriate.

I'm not trying to say that Dan is as bad as Steve. Obviously not the case. Just saying that Dan knew enough that his conscience should have kicked in and save a lot of us a lot of problems. And when Dan found out that the first Fidpac server went down, he shoulda let people know that it was going to happen to all servers.

That's it. I've made my points. Up until today, I was giving Dan the benefit of the doubt. But the statement that I quoted above was enough to change my mind. But please don't misunderstand me.... I'm not buying the story that Dan was supposed to pay for Steve's servers while they were on vacation. I still put most of the blame on Steve. Just think that Dan needed to be a stand-up guy and give us a warning rather than only looking out for himself.

- Jason

One tidbit of important information I learned from a extremely reliable source tonight. A while back in the thread, Barbara Gunnel's contact information was posted. The thing I found out is that Barbara has not been working in the family business of webhosting for some time now.

Therefore, there is no good reason for anyone to be contacting her for any reason. She is out of the loop and was as surprised as the rest of us when this happened. She did not have foreknowledge about the servers going down and therefore is not part of this.

She has understandably been very worried about people blaming her and possibly doing something stupid against herself or her immediate family.

For what its worth, if I catch wind of anyone talking about something stupid like that, I will contact the appropriate authorities. There is no reason for that type of behavior. That includes harrassing her on the telephone.

I think all of her contact information, pictures, etc need to be removed from this forum. I've asked the moderators for edit privileges so I can fix anything like that I have posted.

Thanks.

I agree with rhaasch 100% regarding the above. The culprit here for whatever reason is Steve Gunnels and not his family. We must ensure justice is done... but this does not include invading the man's family or making them feel threatened. He is still innocent despite our suspicians.. only a court of law can deem him otherwise. If some nut case were to do something stupid, it would be tragic... this must not happen... I agree that anyone making threats against Steve or anyone else should be reported... thanks for your post rhaasch!

Thanks guys forf those very sobering comments. It's great to see some civility returning to the proceedings. You've made feel more confident about turning my own forums back on!

Quite frankly I would be more than happy to see this entire thread go away permanently. A new one can be started if necessary to discuss recovery but this is getting out of hand.

It has become very obvious that no one took the money and ran to Mexico and efforts are currently underway to salvage what can be salvaged. Sure, it doesn't "fix everything" but I do have firsthand knowledge that they are trying.

The first five pages (on my screen - 60 posts per page) are so full of innacuracies that it would be unethical to let it remain on the internet for all future generations to see. We had a chance to rant and rave and now it needs to be purged.

Just my opinion but its a good one in my opinion.

Again rhaasch I agree with you. While all this was going down, many people - perhaps myself included - were venting our frustrations and anger. Later posting has become more contrived, though in some cases downright hostile... In my view, the person mainly responsible is Gunnels himself. All efforts to defame or belittle others is merely a side-show and should cease. I have, for one, recently reacted harshly to another member elsewhere for which I apolgize. We need to stay focused on helping those who need help, and providing the information needed to see that right prevails. In the future I hope to remain civil and not fly off the handle.. but also hope that others will refain from attacking fellow members, as it detracts from the goal at hand. I shall do my best to abide by this principle myself.

Getting back on track is welcomed. Although I have learned a lot of "side" information, the real issues can be synopsized into this:

1- Service was cut off having been paid for in advance in each case. That is bad business practice. Whether it be a written or verbal contract, it is recognized by the law as a binding agreement. So in civil matters there is grounds for civil suit for services promised and revoked.

2- Money was taken with consent once, but no consent was given for the second hit. That, if intended on SG's part is fraud and crosses into the criminal area.

I personally reported my losses with the local branch of the FBI and they have started the preliminary investigation in which they have to find probable cause for intent before the next step can begin. We cannot do that. We are the "Miss Marples" of the game learning all about this man and how he duped us.

My question I put to SG when he called with the "have to move to new servers and have I got a deal for you" was how did he define Lifetime Hosting. He, without a blink, ( shows thought and rehearsal) stated that, " It means as long as you have an active URL." I have learned from this forum that there were several different prices for Lifetime Hosting! Anyway his answer was plausible and I fell for it too based on my 5 years with his hosting service.

I would suggest that anyone with losses and records of those losses ( credit card statements with reference #s etc ) do as I did and contact the FBI in Houston and report it. As a collective body of information, it has weight.

I do not agree that deleting posts are a good idea unless they damage or directly attack someone. I would be very opposed to deleting this thread. There are still lots of people who have no idea why their sites are down. Deleting this thread would take away one option for them to find out what's going on. Those who said stuff that they regret can go back and modify their postings.

I made this point in another forum, writing out of sheer anger and hatred never leads to anything other than people thinking that you're a lunatic. It takes away your credibility.

- Jason

Originally posted by webitpub
Those who said stuff that they regret can go back and modify their postings.
Actually, you can't. After 15 minutes of posting, all posts are locked. I personally think that is a bad policy.

The majority of the posts in this thread are inaccurate. A new thread could easily be started with a simple summary of what actually happened and what can be done to make a recovery.

I stand corrected. I agree that's probably not a great policy, but it does make it easier to follow a conversation. If someone were allowed to go back and change their posts indefinitely, it makes it difficult to keep up. Especially since the post doesn't display that it was editted.

I still believe that eliminating this post would be a bad idea. If for no other reason that to show other web hosts that when their clients are mistreated, they can and will band together and display their outrage to the world. Do I think some of the name calling or attacking the rest of his family was necessary? No, but what's done is done. People who regret it can post a note stating that they regret what they said. Otherwise, I don't think anyone has the right to delete or modify anyone else's words or statements unless they were illegal or cause harm.

- Jason

This thread may get locked at some point, but it isn't going away. Posts which haven't been removed are likely to stay. That's how WHT operates. If every thread where angry customers said regrettable things were removed, WHT would be a fraction of its size. If a post is outside the rules, it will get removed, but again, this thread stays. I'm not a mod, this isn't my decision, I'm just telling how it is.

You people stated things in public, and in public those things will remain. It always pays to think before speaking, and to get your facts straight before posting, because what you have to say will likely be available online for many many years, this should be obvious by looking at all the many-years-old threads here. If you edit your post after 3 minutes, but before 15 minutes, it will say that you edited your post.

It is always possible, as Jason pointed out, to issue an apology or a retraction later in the thread.

This thread is not only about hosts. It also about clients. They both fit in the category: HUMANS. :)

Good luck with your next host. Don't buy lifetime hosting, unlimited space or bandwith.

Ok. So I posted a retraction a minute ago and someone deleted it. Its ok for them to do that but not for me to edit an older post?

So we can criticize anyone except this website?

If you have problems with this website, or questions about its policies which aren't cleared up by reading the rules (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/misc.php?s=&action=forum-rules), you can open a helpdesk ticket:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/helpdesk/

Originally posted by Eu1net
Don't buy lifetime hosting, unlimited space or bandwith.

good tip. ;) the needs to be posted as a sticky..

If you have problems with this website....

Did it...four times now.

How many more times until you think it would become annoying?

Some of the content of this thread is clearly in violation of the terms of service and so far it has been ignored.

Well...can't say I didn't try.

"upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable"

Hey, I just tried to access gunnels.october.com.au and I'm getting a 403 error which makes me think that I'm banned. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem? If I'm banned, I find it hillarious since I was only expressing my opinion based on the facts presented.

In any case, I wish everyone well and hope that noone will end up with another bad host.

- Jason

What happened to http*//www*gunnels*october*com*au I get an error saying: You don't have permission to access / on this server.

Bout to ask the same question it seems to have been shut down by somebody or restricted

Same thing here. It's now 8:23PM est too. So, it looks like it has been a couple hours. Any news on this, anyone?



Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /forum/index.php on this server.

Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

I was reading the forum when i went to go to another page and it did that to me.. that was around 3-3:30pm pst

Hi all.

I am very said to report - as many of you have already discovered - that www.gunnels.october.com.au is off the air. This was not my doing!

I turned on my laptop a few minutes ago for the first time in just over 24 hours, and went to check the site to find just what all of you found. So I check my email, and what do I find? I find emails from my host - Dan Levesque - telling me that he has shut it down. He changed the permissions on the folder containing the site, and even changed the owner of it so that I couldn't change it back. As far as I'm concerned, he hacked (or perhaps vandalised) my site without my permission.

His reasoning is that he was worried that the content of the forum was placing his box at risk of closure as he believed it contravened the planet's permitted use policies. But instead of just turning off the forums (which I'd done temporarily in a much easier way), he turned off the entire site.

That sucks.

I'm now trying to find (yet) another web host.

I'm *EXTREMELY* disappointed with Dan.

Craig

WELL WEll
Dan didn't like being called out for what he did(or more like didn't do) I'm not with dan so I'd like to offer up my domian. Do you have the files backed up and the forum? I'd like too know what the last few posts where about? I noticed the dan was logged in 24/7 What a jerk......

I setup a sub at october*weblifecanada*com i'll give you the user/pass via pm if your interested???????

delahoc

Made2own.com

they got my site up in 3 min and if you check their TOS they believe in free speech.

They are not what I would call cheep but so far all my questions have been answered by a CSR in under 1 hour.

I have a feeling Dan shut it down because he was being blamed as well, and he felt that it was not helping his case at all.

He should have asked you to take it down and not just removed it.

Originally posted by thelunatick
Made2own.com

they got my site up in 3 min and if you check their TOS they believe in free speech.


Their TOS is no different to any other. They also talk about no content that could be seen as 'harassment' or 'threatening'. Which are the arguments that Dan used to me. And they use The Planet's data centre, as does Dan. If his beef was that The Planet would close him down because of the content on my site, why would made2own be any different?

FYI, Anyone want to buy and lock these domains, might be useful.

stevegunnels*net is available.
stevegunnels*org is available.
stevegunnels*info is available.
stevegunnels*us is available.
stevegunnels*biz is available.
stevegunnels*co*uk is available.
stevegunnels*cc is available.

So is Gunnels going to get away with this or what? What happened to everyone? I don't have much invested here, but from what I understand some of you lost alot? I've logged on here every day just to see if the p@#^$ GOT BUSTED. I want to see him in cuffs. The pic's on gunnels.october.com.au/..Ohh but I can't!!! Someone shuts it down. Another persons site and the man/woman can't do a thing about it. What kind of industry are you hosts running? {CALL THE COPS, AGAIN) This is absolute bull s#!t. I would love to come to your defence Dan but i can't, I hosted with you a very,very long time.....;

Delahoc-

That really sucks. It was good to have a community for us to get together. Thanks for doing it.

"Words can be a sword to kill, or a link between our different worlds."

I’ve been closely watching this thread for quite some time, and have noticed that during the past few days, things around here have gone surprisingly quiet. This does not surprise me at all! As servers were going down and many people were left holding a thread in each hand; there was a need to get useful information about what was happening, and what to do: this Forum then served that purpose.

However during the past few days, something different has been happening here. Instead of this thread being used to help each other; a small cabal has moved in and set up shop here among us. So, instead of being helpful, this forum has become very polarized and is beginning to sound like Hannity & Colmes in debate mode. It’s developed into a shouting match, heated arguments and impassioned soapboxing about things that have nothing whatever to do with why we came here - namely; bringing Steve Gunnels to account.

Attention has thus been diverted away from all that now, and has instead become channeled in unfair attacks against Dan Levesque revolving around the speculations of a very few, that he is somehow “fair game. There is only one man responsible for all this; Steve Gunnels. Period. If I were a moderator on this board I can assure you I would indeed moderate, and a few of you would be banned. Some of you know well, of whom I speak.

I had never hosted with, nor even heard of Dan Levesque before last week. But since then I have opened a 24-hour chat channel with him and have also talked with him by phone for hours (no small feat considering I live in Asia). I wanted to get to know all about him and how he is. (Someone accused me of being his messenger boy… a comment I find not only stupid, but also very offensive.) I am a man, fast approaching 60, and I have traveled the globe, dwelled in many countries, speak six languages… and one thing I’m confident about, is my ability to discern people. I am not shy to speak my mind, or to defend harmless people under attack, either.

Dan pulled the plug on the October.com.au because he was afraid of the legal ramifications of things that were being posted on the board regarding what “should be done” with Steve Gunnels. Whether you like it or not I would stand to defend Steve Gunnels despite my anger against him and tragic losses… you have no idea! I would defend his right to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I would defend his right and natural inclination to shield his family from attack and perceived danger. And I would also defend his right to have his home in privacy, and not have pictures of it posted on the Internet for the entire world to see. Fox news might promote this form of reporting; but I think we can all do better than that.

From my perspective Dan did not “hack into” the October site… but he left the data intact and merely made the folder it was in unreachable. He was trying to abide by the law - as every single web host must. Some folks might not like it, but we are not entirely free to write and say just anything we wish. There are also laws that protect even Mr. Gunnels and his family. The threatening talk and personal attacks against his wife and kids is unacceptable…. He could have the case against him thrown out of court and walk… is that what you want?

I would politely like to propose that we bury the hatchet…. Stop all attacks on each other…including those against Dan Levesque. If a few of you have issues with him, deal with it privately and don’t continue to use these public boards for that purpose – I think it is boring and unproductive. Instead let’s try regaining equilibrium and use this board as intended: namely; to help each other and keep up with the news on Gunnels in a legally acceptable way.

I have tried to write this as politely as I can… I am not attacking anyone by name… but as my old Grama used to say in Georgia: “if the shoe fits…slip ‘er on brother!”. If this change does not occur I will stop coming here at all, and would suggest others do the same.

Now, let’s get back to work!

Originally posted by Christoff555

There is only one man responsible for all this; Steve Gunnels. Period. If I were a moderator on this board I can assure you I would indeed moderate, and a few of you would be banned. Some of you know well, of whom I speak.

Dan pulled the plug on the October.com.au because he was afraid of the legal ramifications of things that were being posted on the board regarding what “should be done” with Steve Gunnels.

From my perspective Dan did not “hack into” the October site… but he left the data intact and merely made the folder it was in unreachable.


Hi Chris. I've said previously much of what you've said very well above. Yes - let's channel it all where it belongs, at Gunnels.

I know why Dan pulled the plug. We had many discussions/arguments about it. I disagree with his interpretation of the law, but I am powerless to do much about it. He asked me to make several changes, which I did, but he pulled the plug anyway. Perhaps I should have been more agressive and banned people, but I normally try to allow people to say what they need to say.

From my point of view, I used the term 'hacked' based on the definition 'caused damage through unauthorised access'. I suppose you can argue that as host his access is authorised under his terms and conditions. But I didn't feel that way at the time I wrote it. He changed the permissions on the folder such that I - the customer - can do nothing with my own site/data. To my mind, he played right into the hands of those that may have had another agenda.

Sorry I tried to help you all.

I am still trying to find another host, and since shutting me down, Dan has been pretty helpful and accommodating. Que sera.

I'm prepared to bury the hatchet and get the job done - which is all I ever wanted to do. I don't think I ever abused anyone except Gunnels (though perhaps recently I have been less kind to Dan, expecially as I was so supportive earlier). And I did my best to calm everyone down when I could. Some took notice, some didn't.

Time to move on. Let's get the job done.

Delahoc,

Thanks for your very polite reply. I want to create friends here.. not enemies. I certainly understand your feelings and know you tried to do what you could to comply with Dan's wishes. But if I had been visited by the FBI as he has, and knew they were watching over my shoulder, I too, might tend to be very circumspect. You will get all your data and site back again - I am sure of it. Please be a little patient meanwhile. We are all learning from this, and I am very grateful for it.

Cheers Mate!

Amen to you Christoff and Delahoc!!
I think what has happened here is we are all just sick and tired of the bickering between us. I know it got very old to me so I just sat back and worked on a lot of other things here. What good does it do to bash Dan? Totally nothing! He did what he saw as right within his rights within what limits he has with running the server. I'm sorry that had to happen to you Del. Let's get together and find out "facts".

1) Is Steve really trying to get the old boxes back? His daughter said they were and they should be back up by now. She should be careful of making promises that are not true. I have one site still pointed to 50/51 so I think IF the box becomes up and running, it should show something.

2) What are you, as an ex customer of Steve's going to do to help get this mess taken care of and see to it that Steve has to take care of this and make some type of retribution to us. If he has to do jail time, as I think most of of think he should, (he did charge my son's credit card with no authorization) Then so be it. He gave no thought to us or our businesses or our lives.

3) Let's ban together, not against each other. We were getting absolutly no place fighting. The forum just went in circle and never ending .

Del, thank you so very much for your site and I am sorry to see it gone. It was very informative. There were some files there that I would have loved to been able to down load.

Let's all regroup and get our heads together with some good sense that the good Lord gave us all. My site is back up and running so I have cooled off quite a bit. I did go with Dan and things have been great. I went with Dan as I know he did all my tech support before and that is very important to me. I want to have someone there I can count on and yes, I do have his home phone number and other ways to contact him directly that I never had with Steve.

So, in ending, let's start this new week off on the right foot....




Originally posted by Christoff555
Delahoc,

Thanks for your very polite reply. I want to create friends here.. not enemies. I certainly understand your feelings and know you tried to do what you could to comply with Dan's wishes. But if I had been visited by the FBI as he has, and knew they were watching over my shoulder, I too, might tend to be very circumspect. You will get all your data and site back again - I am sure of it. Please be a little patient meanwhile. We are all learning from this, and I am very grateful for it.

Cheers Mate!

My only intrest was in getting Steve brought up on proper charges and helping those that were like us screwed.

On the side I was doing searches finding people that had their domians locked by fidpac and explained how they could get them back (ok only form tucows since that was the only one I knew the whole process). I hapen to be an old skool Internet veteran (i.e. pre Mosaic user) I knew how to work things and it only took 1 day for me to set things in motion to get my site back up. The other 3 days were tucows dragging their feet.

On Dan pulling the site. I understand his fears but I feel he should have handled it differently, includeing asking Delhoc to deleat posts and ban people, or even ask for himself to be made a mod. I am sure many of us would have volunteered to help moderate the forum, Myself included. As I said above the site provided a nice central resource for people to find out what to do.

As for any action agains steve I am willing and able to be a part of it, just keep me in the loop please.

Um that would be legal actions
thought I should clarify.

Pretty much everything has already been said that could be said, with the exception of new people essentially saying the same thing - which is of course, new cases are always welcome.

Dan *did* converse with Craig asking him to remove potentially even remotely threatening posts, and the photos, and any other information that could be construed as slanderous or libel, or that could be constued as stalking.

I like Craig and do not have a problem with him. He feels anyone should be able to say what they want, pro or con, without fear of getting their posts pulled. To an extent, I agree with that policy.

However,

This is America, and although we all know Gunnels is as guilty as sin, until this is proven in a court of law, he is innocent.

I *did* offer to help Craig moderate his forum and a couple others did too. We are all in different time zones and any forum with the subject matter as that one could turn south in 10 minutes. We all wanted the board to work for us, not against us.

I saw a Gunnels troll come in and start crap - that is what we absolutely do not need. And I am not referring to Becca or her friend, I am referring to another poster.

Now here's Dan, taking probably the biggest hit of all of us resellers, yet he offers up his server to host the very forum that could potentially be the cause of him losing the rest of his business, if not handled properly. As I said, he did ask Craig to comply, but that did not happen.

I don't think so. I wouldn't do it and I advised Dan not to do it.

I am in contact with representatives from two FBI offices and have asked one of them for a statement, or instructions that I can post here or pass on to others in the same boat. This is the only organized way I can think of proceeding.

We have to prove "intent to defraud" before it becomes a Federal case - this is a direct quote from one of the emails I received from the FBI. Until we can prove 'intent', anything else is a civil matter. Bad business practices will not put Gunnels in prison.

Repeatedly hitting people's credit cards without their authorization, if we can prove this was done routinely *is* intent to defraud, knowing full well the percentages of people who will blindly just pay the bill.

Intentionally temporarily shutting down a server(s) after spamming those residents on the server for $99 upgrades, to people who have already paid their bills - is intent to defraud.

That is where we must concentrate to bring Gunnels to justice.

Documentation. Lots of it. That is what is needed. Emails, contracts, anything that can help prove our case.

Not most of the stuff I have seen lately. Bickering amongst ourselves is the worse thing that we can do.

Couple more notes since I'm on a roll.

I don't expect to get one penny back from Gunnels and I don't expect any of you all will either. I don't expect Gunnels to serve a lengthy sentence behind bars.

However, I do hope we can bring him to justice where he spend at least 6 months in a Federal pen though - he deserves that and we deserve to see it happen. Maybe then he will think twice about starting up this viscious cycle again, and just maybe it will help prevent someone else from falling into this trap.

Tucows gave him up. Now we can give him up to the authorities.

It seems that webhosting may not have been the only scams Gunnels was involved in. I got bored and found some court cases on a google search but this forum won't let me post the urls. One case is:
In the Matter of Stephen Hugh Gunnels, Order No. LR 866, 1990 WL 118305
The other it seems him and another person were investment brokers that that appearantly were not licensed to do so and sold investments . It seems it went to a Court of Appeals in TX and seems was ruled that they had to pay no restitution.
If anyone wants the urls contact me and I'd be glad to email them to you.


I hope I wasn't out of line posting this, just trying to show proof of his charactor (or lack thereof)


Dave

Dan just contacted me and I need to correct a part of my post above regarding Craig not pulling posts. Craig did in fact, pull the posts that Dan asked him to. I apologize to delahoy for this error.

So are we going to have all discussions about what we are doing about Gunnels here?

I appreciated having a place where we could all get our stories together, post tips for hosting, changing domains, whatever.

I'm not sure if it was Lunachick, but someone had instructions on how to get access of your name from Tucows and also there was instructions to fax a form and a picture of your ID somewhere? I did that and I was wondering how long it would take to hear something? Anyone? Should I just try setting up a domain name transfer with someone like Godaddy?

I think we should have somewhere to go where we can compile our stories and problems. And include contact info for FBI and authorities.

How bout a Yahoo group? We can make it private and approve requests to join?

Mich311e,

Gunnels had me registered thru Tucows and I too had to fax them. It took about 24 hours to have them change my Administrator's email address and then once that was done I could do a domain transferred (renewal, etc.) with any domain register of my choice. The next process of transferring from Tucows to the new register took about 36 hours and may have been delayed some as I did not use one of Tucow's reselling registers. Then it took about another 48 hours to get the new server propagated to the new hosting server. Yes it was a pain but it wasn't impossible.

Hope that is some helpful.

Some info on moving to a new host.. I have always registered my URL myself with Network Solutions. So I called, told them what happened and said I wanted it to move to my new hosting account which I took out with them and I was up an running in 24 hours.

Encourage people to send pertinent info about excess charges on credit cards to the FBI office in Houston. All you need in on the monthly statements from those years.

HAHA. That is funny... Nothing I gotta say execept.. well...

Well maybe was just a mistake, you know?

TJ let me know who to contact with the FBI

I have the various unanswered communications from Steve, as well as the spams for "upgrade now" even though I had already upgraded.

Fortunately I watch my credit cards like a hawk and have never gotten the "phantom charge" from steve.

Like you the only money I expect to see is from the reports I filed with the 2 credit cards I use. AMEX is usually very good with things like this and hopefully Visa will be too.

If you have your reciepts or proof that your accounts were still good for a few years they may give you a pro-rated credit. Keep in mind it will never hurt to ask.

Wow this thread has come a loooong way !


Good Luck with everything guy's

Originally posted by tjbailey
Dan *did* converse with Craig asking him to remove potentially even remotely threatening posts, and the photos, and any other information that could be construed as slanderous or libel, or that could be constued as stalking.

I like Craig and do not have a problem with him. He feels anyone should be able to say what they want, pro or con, without fear of getting their posts pulled. To an extent, I agree with that policy.

I *did* offer to help Craig moderate his forum and a couple others did too. We are all in different time zones and any forum with the subject matter as that one could turn south in 10 minutes. We all wanted the board to work for us, not against us.

Now here's Dan, taking probably the biggest hit of all of us resellers, yet he offers up his server to host the very forum that could potentially be the cause of him losing the rest of his business, if not handled properly. As I said, he did ask Craig to comply, but that did not happen.


On the whole, what you say has a lot of merit. But I just need to clarify a couple of points:

* Yes, Dan did ask me to make modifications to the site. He asked me to do 3 things specifically. I DID ALL THREE.

* When I saw that the forums were starting to get out of hand, I temporarily closed them down and put up a warning notice. This was my doing, after Dan expressed concerns about the direction the forums were taking.

* After a few calming posts in this forum, I had hoped/thought everyone was getting rational again, so I put the forums back up.

* Yes, a few people offered to help moderate, and I thank them for that. But, following some words of wisdom to me by more than one person ('be careful who you give moderation rights to, there are some angry/dangerous/unkown people here'), I chose to decline their kind offers. While I am getting to know you all a lot better know, at that time I had known most of you only a few days, and only by nicknames. I still don't know much about most of you. Would you hand out moderation rights so carelessly?

* I went to bed on Friday night, spent Saturday with the family, and turned on my laptop again in the evening to find the entire site (not just the forums) offline. Dan had changed the permissions (not the owner as I incorrectly stated earlier) so that I could do nothing with it. Yes, there were then some emails there asking me to do something, but I had not read them as I had not been online for around 20 hours.

I understand Dan's concerns, and they may be very real fears. I disagree with much of his assessments, but that is a discussion he and I have had a few times already. Since then, Dan has been very patient, kind and generous. I hold no grudge, though I remain disappointed.

Just wanted to clear the air on those things.

Craig

Originally posted by mich311e

I appreciated having a place where we could all get our stories together, post tips for hosting, changing domains, whatever.

I think we should have somewhere to go where we can compile our stories and problems. And include contact info for FBI and authorities.


I intend having the Collective site back up, though it may have to be in a (slightly) modified form. Now that I know a few people a bit better, I may also hand out some moderator rights ... :-)I agree, it was great having somewhere to tell the story and get help - they were two of the main aims of that site.

Gathering information was a third, and it seems that's one area where Dan and I didn't see eye to eye. Dan has a hell of a lot of info, and has passed most of it to the authorities. It would have been good for many of us to continue seeing more of it. It is my hope that will continue.

For example, here's an email from Gunnels to Dan, explaining that he was about to blackmail people into upgrading by closing down their servers!!!!

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Gunnels" <steveg@gunnels.org>
> To: <besthost1@besthost1.com>
> Cc: <dan@thot.net>
> Sent: June 30, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: Dan - Boxes 13, 17, 18
>
>
> Dan, I'm going to try to generate some upgrades from folks currently
> still
> using these old Ensim Boxes. I am going to turn off all services on all
> three
> of these for a while, and see if we can get some screamers, and turn them
> into upgrades. After all, these people have been receiving warning
> notices
> literally for months now, so this should come as no surprise. At the end
> of
> the day I will turn them back on.
>
> Steve

Dan gave me his permission to post this. This is just an example of the kind of thing he has turned over to the authorities. I assume some of the people here ended up being 'screamers'!!

Fortunately, I didn't fall for that one, although that trick was presented to me.

Craig, again I apologize for my error regarding you removing the questional posts at Dan's request. I did post a retraction of that part of my statement in a subsequent post following my original statement, after hearing from Dan.

I also thought your forum was a great idea and a major benefit to all of us having been affected by all of Gunnels boxes going offline, with absolutely no notice. I'd like to see the forum started again, perhaps with Mich's idea of using a private Yahoo group.

This forum serves as a great place to voice our initial complaints and questions, but we really need a place where we can collectively gather concise criminal evidence. I did copy the "tales of woe" thread from the old board so we certainly have enough information to rebuild or start another private board.

I am completely swamped with work right now, much of which is a direct result of this fiasco, but I would be willing to help in any manner I can. You have my email addy so all you have to do is ask.

Originally posted by tjbailey

I also thought your forum was a great idea and a major benefit to all of us having been affected by all of Gunnels boxes going offline, with absolutely no notice. I'd like to see the forum started again, perhaps with Mich's idea of using a private Yahoo group.

I did copy the "tales of woe" thread from the old board so we certainly have enough information to rebuild or start another private board.


As soon as I get myself a new host, it will be back up. I have a complete backup of the forums, so that will be back too.

Can anyone tell me weather Gunnels has been visited by the authorities? I've read on here that Dan has given doc's the authorities. Have they resulted in any charges against Gunnels? It's been a couple of weeks now since I sent my receits and copies of e-mail to the dallas contact that was posted on GC.

iambonz, this could take several months, even years before any law enforcement agency visits him. I'm sure they want to wait for other complaints to filter in and this is a lengthy process. The Feds have a habit of thoroughly developing their cases before they move, as it should be.

The best advice I can offer is to get all the documents you can on your specific situation, print them out, put them in a folder and wait to be contacted by the authorities. You should be concise with your complaint, don't add any color, or opinion, or hear-say - just the facts. It's going to take awhile.

Gunnels isn't stupid. In fact he is very intelligent. He figures he has all the angles covered, and many are. You'll see. His corporation is a limited liability corporation, which in itself relieves him from many legal ramifications. He lives in Texas, which has the homestead act, thereby protecting his personal property in the event a civil suit goes against him. His corp was established in Delaware, a state well noted for corporate protection.

It's a shame that Gunnels has used his intelligence in such a low handed way when it could have been used in such a more constructive way. All he had to do was pay the bill at the data center and all this would have been avoided.

I have had a funny thought.........well maybe not so funny in the usual way. I bet Steve will plead not guilty by reason of insanity. Think back you that have had dealings with him over the past few months before everything fell. He cut his hours back drastic to 7AM till 3 PM. He told me when I asked about that when he use to be on all hours, that he was just plain worn out and need time. Think about how he would answer your emails. A lot of time they would make no sense at all, heck that was a usual thing before but it became worse. One line answers. He would come back to my emails,," What box are you on? What is your domain name again?" I would be so agregated at him I would sit here and scream to myself but I said cause I had $1000's invested in my site. SDS-lifetime haha. Do some real thinking on your dealing with him lately. What a great way to cover your butt. Your honor, my client is "NOT GUILTY" do to his mental condition. He knew not what he did. and on and on and on.......

(edit to remove signature)

First, I'd like to appologize to any of you that think that my only purpose in life is to bash Dan. That is simply not true... I hardly know the guy. As I mentioned on G.C., I really don't care what happens to Steve or Dan at this point. I do know this, I will never do business with either of them. I have tried to shed some light on Dan's non-action and how many of us could have been spared the downtime if Dan had cared enough to just tell us that systems were going down. I AM NOT blaming Dan for the systems going down nor for any of the actions that Steve did to all of us. I am also NOT saying that Dan was not a victim in this as well. However, Dan had more insight into what was happenning prior to the switch actually being flipped and was able to save his own butt while letting us all flounder.

Many of you have said "stop attacking eachother." No problem. I do not consider Dan one of us. Also, I don't feel that I'm attacking him. Merely trying to get him to answer to us as to why he didn't let us know that things were getting worse with Steve and then let us know when the first servers went down. I also believe that we should not attack eachother, but instead work together to a) help eachother, b) bring justice to those responsible, c) prevent this from happening again to us or anyone else.

Now Dan has taken the G.C. forums offline by force. It's much like a landlord coming in and shutting down your business because he didn't agree with something that you were saying. There was nothing illegal going on on the G.C. site. There was no harrassment. Those who were threatening in their posts, had their posts removed. Those who think that I'm threatening must then think that truth and opinions are threatening. I've said nothing that is untrue to the best of my knowledge and the information presented.

I welcome anyone and everyone to disagree or agree with me. That's the beauty of freedom of speech. We don't have to agree. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to call for you to be banned from the forum or that your posts be deleted or modified against your wishes. That violates the very priciple on which the Internet itself is founded.

I think that by Dan taking down the G.C. site he was trying to once again protect himself while not caring about the consequences to us. I think it goes to prove the mindset that I've claimed that he's had all along. He's much more interested in covering his own butt and his own best interests and doesn't care if that is detrimental to any of us. What he says maybe very contrary to this statement, but I believe that actions speak louder than words.

Unfortunately, I have very little else to contribute to the forum. I have no incriminating evidence against Steve (other than a few hundred SPAM emails). I was not over-billed. I doubt that the "lifetime hosting" being shutdown in only 5 years would constitute fraud. All I can do is try to help people to avoid being burned again. I do this by shedding light on some injustices. At the moment, Dan is the only one, other than the obvious Steve, that I see that could have helped prevent this from being such a big deal. If I find out that other affilliates or resellers also knew what was going on and chose not to warn anyone, they would also be included in the exact same statements.

To everyone trying to make a difference and help bring those responsible for this whole tragedy to justice, I thank you. We're all busy and it's not easy to go through all of this. Doing it together makes it a little easier. I encourage everyone that has any evidence which helps to prove intent to defraud to bring that evidence forward.

- Jason

Dan notifying all of us would have taken considerable work on his part.
If he used the information in steves servers it would be theft of information. Just the same as a spammer stealing e-mails from a database.

That means dan would have had to research every Domain hosted by steve, find the owner e-mail and send out a group e-mail to all of them. I see that as a few days worth of work with no benefit to him and potential complaints filed against him.

Also how many people would have disreguarded the message as a disgruntled former employee?

Speaking for myself, I can say that I had absolutely no idea this was coming. The first indication I had was some of my customers contacting me telling me their sites weren't loading.

I was well aware of Gunnels bad business practices, with bounced checks and empty promises, but I honestly did not expect a total shutdown. When the first server went offline I tried contacting Gunnels using the email addresses and phone numbers I had for him. No responses. When the 2nd server went offline, I decided to seek hosting elsewhere for all of my clients and not wait for the other servers to get shut down.

I am a web developer and as such, part of my job is to arrange for hosting. So I guess I can be considered a reseller. However, as a reseller, I did not have root level access to the servers, nor did I know who else resided on them.

I have thought about what I would have done had I been in Dan's shoes since he had admin priviledges. Maybe I would have created a listserv and sent out a broadcast warning email, I don't know. That's a questionable situation, no doubt.

I do not think any of the other affiliates had any prior knowledge - but I can't speak for them, nor can I speak for Dan. My main concern was for my clients.

Don't you see and understand that Dan has more evidence than all of us together can possibly ever have? What we have along with his might bring some justice. I am not so sure what can be done. But, WE ALL MUST WORK TOGETHER!!! Steve is protected as was said by TJ. Being incorporated saves his butt personally. Any of you know who are in business that you have to have a lawyer on retainer full time. As I am sure Steve does. I have resigned myself to the fact that Mr Gunnels just might walk away a free man with all the money he scammed off us. Intent to defraud!!! Remember those words, that is what has to be proven to get any type of criminal sentence. A civil case, possible. Who really knows at this point what will happen. This will not be resolved overnight or in a month or two. Be prepared to sit back and wait but have all your info copied and ready to turn if you if haven't done that already. I know I will receive nothing from him back for my SDS Lifetime. SO, oh well on that point. Mt son has turned in the charges Steve made in June to his credit union and they are researching it all now. We made shots of Steve's site before it went down too and included them with the paper work. Showing his 90 money back guarantee and all and that on July 23 he was still up with his sales pitch. So, now it is sit back and see if my son receives his 300.00 back against his debit card. They (the Credit Union) is pretty sure he will get it back. Even if they do a write off on it and don't go after Steve for the money because it would cost more to get it (try to get it) than they would be giving back to my son. Just try to remember here, Dan IS NOT the devil that some of you think he is. He could sit back and not say one word to any of us and not show us any of his documents. He could go after Steve totally alone as he has tons of documents of all different types. We are the peons in this whole thing. I don't mean that in a bad way either. We need to band together as there is the old safety in numbers thing here. The more of us together the better chance all of us have.

Hello thelunatick,

I have to disagree with you on several points:
Dan notifying all of us would have taken considerable work on his part.
If I had known this was happenning, I could have written a script within about an hour which would have gotten all of the domains and the email addresses for the owners of those domains.

If he used the information in steves servers it would be theft of information. Just the same as a spammer stealing e-mails from a database.
Who would have come after him? Steve? I sure wouldn't have especially after his warning would have come true.

I see that as a few days worth of work with no benefit to him and potential complaints filed against him.
Thinking too much about brawn over brains... I think Dan's a smart guy and could have coded a solution or found someone that could quickly code a solution. As to the benefit, one benefit is that noone would be questioning whether Dan wanted to help us rather than just cover his own butt. Another benefit could have been that he could have offerred his hosting services as an alternative to hosting with Steve.

Also how many people would have disreguarded the message as a disgruntled former employee?
Well then the blame would lie with those people disregarding the message, wouldn't it? As for me, I knew something was wrong. I'd been trying to email Steve for about a month with no reply. Too long, even for Steve. I had a suspicion that the servers were going to go down, but had no way to know for sure. I took the step of backing up my sites, but was not willing to take preemptive steps to have my site hosted elsewhere, because I only had a gut feeling and no evidence to back it up. If I had received an email stating that other servers hosted by Steve were going down and it was probably only a matter of time until the server I'm on would do the same, I would have had enough to take the next step and move my sites, preemptively. It would have done a lot of good in my case. And it sounds like more people would have paid attention to Dan than you think... There seem to be a lot of people who are willing to blindly follow Dan without any thought to the arguments made against him.

- Jason

i personally think that all of the talk about Dan's involvment in this is hit the end of the road.. should have, would have, could have.. if we all had the hindsight, we would not be in this predicament..

i don't see anyone blindly following dan, i do see people tired of hearing about what this person would have done or that person would have done..

I have personally gone with Dan's site. To me the price is good for me right now, is it because i believe in him? no, because i don't have an opinion either way right now. i am not a fly on the wall, i do not know what transpired either way.. between steve and dan, or steve and anyone else on this board.. all i know is what transpired between steve and myself.

let's all move past the blaming stage and get on with the living stage. working on getting our sites up and moving and getting information that "we" all personally have to the appropriate authorities and on with our lives that we had beforeall of this crap started.

Don't you see and understand that Dan has more evidence than all of us together can possibly ever have? What we have along with his might bring some justice.
Kacee, don't you see and understand that Dan will present that evidence to the authorities whether we have anything to do with it or not because it is in his best interest to do so? It doesn't matter whether we know exactly what Dan is presenting as evidence because the authorities and the legal system are the ones that will act on it. I don't think that presenting the evidence together or seperately should make a difference as long as all of the evidence is presented.

Dan IS NOT the devil that some of you think he is.
I do not think that Dan is the devil... Perhaps you're referring to a previous statement I made, but didn't fully grasp the meaning.... The statement was, "When you dance with the devil, you're bound to get scorched." In this case, the devil would Steve and the one dancing with him would be Dan. Hope that clears things up.

He could sit back and not say one word to any of us and not show us any of his documents. He could go after Steve totally alone as he has tons of documents of all different types.
Would that change the outcome? If we know about all of the evidence, does that bring more justice against Steve? If Dan does it all himself, will the sentence be any lighter than if Dan shares all of his evidence with us? Sure, it'd be nice to know what Dan is doing to get justice for himself against Steve, but I don't think that us being involved in it makes a bit of difference either way, except on our own piece of mind.

- Jason

Hi misteaz,

let's all move past the blaming stage and get on with the living stage. working on getting our sites up and moving and getting information that "we" all personally have to the appropriate authorities and on with our lives that we had beforeall of this crap started.
I think that's pretty much the society we live in today. Nobody wants to take any blame for anything. Noone takes personal responsibility for their actions. If we're not here to blame people for the wrong that occurred to all of us, then what are we here for? Aren't we all blaming Steve? Is there a difference because I happen to blame Steve for the direct action that occurred to bring my sites down, but I also blame Dan for not telling me it was going to happen? Just because fewer people agree with me about Dan being partly responsible doesn't make my arguments any less valid than those made about Steve which almost everyone seems to agree with. We're all blaming here. If you don't want to read people blaming someone, probably shouldn't read this thread.

- Jason

i thought this thread was where would could put our information on the case against Steve Gunnels.. and since you did quote me, you can see i didn't say we would STOP blaming, i said we should MOVE PAST the blaming stage.

Many of you don't seem to agree that Dan was obligated to let us know that our sites were going to go down eventhough he likely knew after the first or second server went down that the rest were probably going to have the same fate. Let me take this to a bit of a further extreme....

There's a guy living in a house next to a bridge. He watches out the window as a section of the bridge collapses into the river below. He had known for years that the bridge was cracking, but chose not to say anything to anyone. He figured it wasn't his responsibility and there was nothing in it for him because he didn't use that bridge. That evening, a car came driving over the bridge and plummetted into the river because there were no warnings that the bridge section had collapsed. Then another car, and another. Still the man just watched out the window. Now a school bus begins its approach to the bridge and also ends up in the river.

In our case, it was just data and money being lost... Not lives. But does that mean that the person watching through the window is any less obligated to warn the drivers that the bridge is out?

- Jason

there are various stages of grief.. denial, anger, blaming, and acceptance are but a few. that is what i meant by let's move past the blaming stage.

Misteaz,

Yes, you're right. Are you a psychiatrist by any chance? :)

I think that we're to the acceptance stage and I'm not trying to blame quite as much as just warn and get my point accross.

However, I'm sure that people can go ahead and post any new finding or evidence in the midst of my ramblings.

- Jason

This was one of my last postings on G.C. forum, but I didn't really get an answer and may have been a reason that Dan was concerned....

Has anyone filed for an injunction against The Planet to keep them from wiping out the data (if they haven't already)? There could be incriminating evidence on there as well as all of our data.

- Jason

Originally posted by thelunatick
Dan notifying all of us would have taken considerable work on his part.
If he used the information in steves servers it would be theft of information. Just the same as a spammer stealing e-mails from a database.

That means dan would have had to research every Domain hosted by steve, find the owner e-mail and send out a group e-mail to all of them. I see that as a few days worth of work with no benefit to him and potential complaints filed against him.

Also how many people would have disreguarded the message as a disgruntled former employee?
Let's see:

A shareware whois email scraping program ($20-$50)

+

dnslocator.com ($20)

and the job could have been done in a few hours without writing any scripts.



I know, because I did it.

As you know, I got and posted the list of websites hosted on the servers. Then I found a couple of programs that could extract email addresses from a list of websites submitted to the program. One program I saw scanned the actual websites for email addresses instead of the whois directories.

I would have been successful except when I tried the extractor programs I was at work and got blocked by the company firewall. The last of the sites were dead by the time I got home.

Don't even try to tell me it was difficult to do. I personally managed to warn 50 people by doing it manually. And I know a couple other people pitched in on the effort because I received their emails at my domains.

Imagine if this had been done a month ahead of time? And I did it with publically available information. Completely legal and above board.

BTW, if you have time, you can sign up at Verisign for access to ftp download all of the domain data for free. Then it would be a simple process to plug it into an Access database and search it. Also legal.

Am I missing something??? I got a warning from Dan almost 2 and a half weeks before my server went down. The email (I posted to this tread days ago) was a mass emailing and explained of a problem and mentioned that the annual renewal for the site was coming up and asked for people to contact Dan, ASAP. I have to admit I dismissed the message but non the less Dan did send a warning that was clear something was wrong.

I didn't go with Dan for hosting and I am not saying that Dan is guilty or innocent but he did give some type of warning. Even others have mention getting his email. Also the email from him was sent to all my know email addresses on the server, including my Administrative email address for my domain.

Hi newcomerinfo,

I read the posting in which you pasted Dan's email to you. It seems like more sales dribble to me. It doesn't come out and say, "Servers have been going down and it is likely yours will go down too." Also, my guess is that he only sent it to besthost customers because I never got it. Did anyone that was not a besthost customer get it?

- Jason

Hi Webitpub,
I mostly agree with you but in retrospect I think Dan was trying to say something without 1.) being libel and 2.) trying to save income that he had last already. At the time I thought it was just a disgruntled employee/contractor but I think now I wish I had asked more questions at the time.

I never got a warning email from Dan but I think he only sent those to besthost customers, I was on super.nu and had no warning of any kind. I also knew Steve seemed shady but had no idea at all he'd pull something like this or I would have left long ago. I paid $299.00 for lifetime on the Xeon server just a couple weeks before it went down (I was already paid up til July 22 and it went down Aug 5). I can see if I got a few years use first or even a couple years but to me lifetime is more than a couple weeks. There is no way I'd believe that when he took my money that Steve didn't already know he was going to take down the server he had just sold me lifetime for. I don't know Dan. nor have I ever emailed or talked to him, only seen his name mentioned on some of Steves emails to me so I have no idea what involvement, if any he had in all this.

PS- I've emailed the TX fbi guy last week but have yet to get a response.


Dave

In catching up on the latest posts, I can add that I too suffered loss of service just before I got the calls from Steve about the "new super" servers etc and the pitch. Boy, isn't this extortion? I've pulled the plug but I am telling you it is old equipment and have I got a deal for you.

Many of you have said shame, shame you should have seen through that one. Well, not everyone who has a few sites up there is a rocket scientist. It doesn't take a genius to use a WYSIWYG, and FTP and up you go. We are sold our hosting service by websites and a phone call......no office to go to, no person to talk to face to face. And.........we would all still be conned by the good ones.

I want my 800 bucks back and I hope they find he has had numerous schemes and that he gets his just desserts. I am sure his modus operandi is a life's career. Makes me mad too, but I stress that anyone who has information to build a case contact the authorities and contribute your facts.

The internet is the great equalizer. How is it said? An ounce of good graphics equals a pound of confidence? How many people drive to a data center and say, I want that one. I've seen every internet scam there is, how could I possibly be duped by this guy? It happens to the best of us and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Live and learn. And sometimes you have to just take a chance.

Actually, a trained grief counselor.

Sorry, crazy week/weekend- so I haven't had the time to 'dedicate' to this.

Can I make a few suggestions?

I've seen a lot of opinions, a lot of very understandable anger, which I validate and don't discourage (to a point).
I think we all realize that regardless of intent or insanity as someone had suggested, there was still a fund raising event by Steve- regardless of service, the number $299 comes up often.

So, my first suggestion is that someone step forward to organize a timeline- get together facts of who gave money to Steve in, say, the past 6 months. How much, for what service, and most importantly to my point- WHEN.
Me, I unknowingly 'donated' to the Gunnels off-shore retirement account $299 on June 30th, 2005 for expanding 3 GB to 10GB on a lifetime account with 10 domains. I'm just joking about the donation thing.

Second, I have seen a list of domains affected by this, but speaking for myself, I host more than 17 domains currently- but I'm just one 'client'. We need to get a better picture of how many individuals or businesses were affected.
If someone could step forward to manage this part of things- somone had put together a list already... perhaps expanding this?
My domains actually affected by Mr. Gunnels sudden departure were:
sgc-inc.net, starvingguitarist.org, larsonclan.org, necroemoticon.com, hc-advantage.com, sg-records.com, custom-wedding-websites.com and subsidiaries (.net, .org, .biz and yourweddingwebsite.biz), whobroughtlarry.com and one more I can't remember... But all of these were under my master domain, sgc-inc.net (the account was just called either dj or sgc-inc depending on which server you count me being 'up' on.
[the rest were elsewhere- I'd actually stopped trusting Steve's servers for my personal domain and serious business long ago]

Third, and I nominate myself for this part but suggest others do it as well-
Having a 'printout' of this forum is a good idea. Me, I plan on making PDFs of every page and archiving them. As for making them available, well- that's a bit much for anything other than evidence, but I won't hide them away or anything ;). I'm just thinking it would n't be much to have this forum topic shut down, as we've seen.

Fourth, it appears that Steve is apparently still 'off-grid'- emails are still bouncing, and I'm not sure if the fax is working (I haven't tried again in a while) Phone- I'm going to try in the morning again. It seems a log of contact efforts is another good thing to have.

Fifth, I'm not saying we need a leader, but if anyone has more time than others to devote to being a 'watchdog' for this, it might not be a bad idea. Someone mentioned leaving a domain pointing to their old server- not a bad idea and I may do the same with an inactive domain called necroemoticon.com (this was an idea that was going to be a web archive that never took off- appopriate somehow to use it...). What the heck... so if someone doesn't mind generally monitoring things like that and checking in with changes...

Sixth, somone with more expertise should probably be monitoring the legal side of things. I'm way out of my league and just don't have the time to devote to research.

Finally, as for me- it's likely that after this experience I will be allowing my domains to expire with the exception of my own. I'm so done with this business, and I can't seem to truly care beyond my own wasted time, efforts and $600+ investment, not to mention the hundreds over the past 8 years in domain name registration costs. Beyond Steve Gunnels' either restoring my services somehow or getting my money back to me- I don't care, I just want out at this point. I've got enough in my full time career to worry about, and I've been referencing this story to turn my clients away from budget web hosting, even the ones I'd told mere months ago that I could have them on a great server... my God, I can't tell you how much trouble I'd be in right now if I had. I'd offer to host all of you on our cBeyond line, but I'm not even using it for myself- it's just for our clients. And I see now the world of difference it makes. So, I'm done with finding the cheapest and trying to strike gold in Texas. It isn't there. Sorry to sound so negative (anyone want to bet we get a few more 'hosts' saying how sorry they are and how different they are in this thread?) I just add this to a long list of 'too good to be true' turnkey operations.

I still wish you all luck- I'm sure many of you were and are far more dedicated to stick to this whole web-hosting thing. I'll check in every now and then.

Originally posted by tjbailey
...His corporation is a limited liability corporation, which in itself relieves him from many legal ramifications. He lives in Texas, which has the homestead act, thereby protecting his personal property in the event a civil suit goes against him. His corp was established in Delaware, a state well noted for corporate protection....

Originally posted by Kacee
...Being incorporated saves his butt personally.

People, being incorporated is no license to commit fraud. Incorporating a company for the purpose of commiting fraud, is not protected by the laws of this country, nor any state or territory. I think several people posting here recently, didn't read this thread. So, I will repeat myself:

Originally posted by BigBison
Stop speculating and consult an attorney, please. Being incorporated is no protection against criminal fraud charges. Judging from all the different companies, and the tales told in this thread, something tells me that piercing any Corporate Veil in this case won't be too tough:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_the_corporate_veil

For starters, do you think he had the proper 'DBA' (Doing Business As) paperwork for all those different 'hosting companies'? Do you think a real board of directors exists, and held regular meetings at which minutes were taken and notarized? Closing a company is no way to avoid fraud charges either.

Don't worry, the government isn't going to let anybody hide behind some sham 'corporation' to perpetrate mass fraud. Unless all his paperwork is in order, the corporation will be considered null and void. Even if it is in order, there is absolutely no personal asset protection when a corporate director uses the corporation to directly commit fraud.

Now, if he did have a board of directors, and they aren't directly involved, the Corporate Veil would, rightly, protect their personal assets from seizure to pay off claims against the 'corporation'.

Prove intent to commit fraud, and Steve Gunnels will be held personally liable, incoroporated or not.

As to the issue with Dan removing a website, well that's just unheard of. No webhost is liable for failing to 'police' customers' forums. It just doesn't work like that. Decisions about a site's content are the customer's to make, not the host's. If the content of the site wasn't violating Dan's TOS, then he had no business removing it due to speculation that it might cause trouble.

I would never contract with such a person for hosting. Really. Webhosts are not required to censor content. Nor should they take it upon themselves to do so.

The Gunnels Collective is back up!

You can now go back to www.gunnels.october.com.au (http://www.gunnels.october.com.au) and continue on where we left off. The site is on a new server!

Please read through the site rather than just leap to the forums. I have added a few rules this time to make sure everyone behaves themselves a little more. I don't intend this site to lapse into seomthing so sterilised as to be useless, but I do expect everyone to be civil and polite, and to remember our purpose.

Let's not lose this again.

Those interested in assisting with moderating, please email me.

Craig, that's great news and I don't think you could have made it any clearer (page 1) new rules, as well as the entry to the forums page, new stated rules. Makes sense, and should protect the host, and operators.

My nose is twitching......if you think his Hosting Services LLC was a real corporation,,,,,I wonder. Anyone can type that after a name and how would you know. Only the state where the charter sits would know if it is legit. I smell another rat here.

The fact that the three times he hit my cards his merchant accounts were as follows: "steve@super.nu" and "support@ super.nu". Isn't this a little odd when eveything else on those bills have more real sounding names like LL Bean. Using an email name on a merchant account is another way to cover up the real account name.

Among all of you who have your statements are there other names and other merchant accounts he used> snoop snoop.

I am saddened and surprised that things continue as they were before my last post.

Webitpub, Iambonz and BigBison:

After being politely requested to "can-it" regarding your disgusting attacks against Dan, you blatently refuse to stop... and you continue the regurgitate his name (ad nauseam)... it makes me think you all have an agenda. Is Gunnels paying you to sh*t disturb here?

Now, you can all pi**-off with the thought... even the notion, that I will sit idly by and allow you to continue your onslaught without recourse. Instead I want each of you in turn to please answer "yes" or "no" to the following question:

Are you only here to here to damage Dan's reputation, his business and family or not?

If the answer is no, then I again ask you to refrain from attacking him again; either here or on the other boards. If the answer is yes, then continue with your attacks in your next postings (or attack me); then we'll at least know why you are really here.

This thread is widely read... so be careful how you answer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the AUP of ThePlanet.com I found the following:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total Control Servers Terms and Conditions of Service:

By submitting the online order form, Customer (Dan) hereby agrees to the following:

* Customer agrees not to engage in activity that violates federal (United States), state (Texas) or local (Dallas County) laws applicable to the service terms described herein.

* Company reserves the right to discontinue service to any subscriber it deems, in its sole discretion, violates any condition of service including the Acceptable Use Policy, Data Center Rules and Procedures, and Terms of Services.

http://www.theplanet.com/legal/terms.html

and,

Violations of AUP

The Planet may enforce this AUP with or without notice to a Customer by any actions it deems necessary in its sole discretion, including the following:

* Disabling access to a Customer's content that violates this AUP
* Removal of DNS records from Servers
* Blocking mail or any other network service
* Effecting IP address null routing
* Suspending or terminating of a Customer's service
* Taking direct action against a Customer's users and customers.

http://www.theplanet.com/legal/aup.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe in exercising free-speech, too. I don't like being told what to say.. in fact, I'm exercising that right, right now. The above rules are those Dan is bound by - by contract... if any of the above named individuals are coherent in Texas law, Or Dallas County law.. please attach you qualifications below... if not, then shut up. You all talk about "the law" with great finesse... but what do you really know?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, read the rules Dan has clearly posted on his current webhosting site and you'll see that whether you like it or not, he indeed does have the right to cancel any account, and not bother to tell you why, if he feels you have violated his TOS/AUP thereby bringing risk to his business. Period. I am sure his terms were the same on his besthost1 website as well. If not, I stand corrected.

Internet Abuse:

"You may not use your web space to engage in illegal, abusive, or irresponsible behavior, including:
Any conduct that is likely to result in retaliation against ServerConnectix and the Data Center in which it's server resides, network or website, or employees of the above locations, officers or other agents, including engaging in behavior that results in any server being the target of a denial of service attack (DoS)."

Offensive Content:

"* You may not publish or transmit via any Server held by ServerConnectix and equipment any content that ServerConnectix reasonably believes:

* is excessively violent, incites violence, threatens violence, or contains harassing content or hate speech;

* is defamatory or violates a person's privacy;

* creates a risk to a person's safety or health, creates a risk to public safety or health, compromises national security, or interferes with a investigation by law enforcement;

* is otherwise illegal or solicits conduct that is illegal under laws applicable to you or to ServerConnectix; or

* is otherwise malicious, fraudulent, or may result in retaliation against ServerConnectix by offended viewers."

Consequences of Violation of AUP:

"ServerConnectix may without notice to you, suspend your service or remove any content transmitted via the ServerConnectix service if it discovers facts that lead it to reasonably believe your service is being used in violation of this AUP. You must cooperate with ServerConnectix's reasonable investigation of any suspected violation of the AUP. ServerConnectix will attempt to contact you prior to suspension of network access to your server(s), however, prior notification is not assured."

http://www.serverconnectix.com/tos.html
--------------------------------------------

I hope and trust that this will bring to a close all discussion on this topic. We are not here to entertain the bellyaching and bad vibes issuing from the likes of the above mentioned persons. I have taken the trouble to name them, because they need to be made aware that many users will no longer passively sit still for the further destruction of this board or any other boards, either.

If the mentioned individuals generate a polite response, then I will delete from my memory all negative impulses and reply to their polite posts with respect and dignity in the future...I really want to be your friend... if not, I will ignore anyting they say in the future.

So Christoff, are others not entitled to state their opinions? I really don't respond well to being 'politely asked' to not discuss something. As far as I am concerned, Dan's actions merit discussion. As nobody else had pointed out that his censorship action is unheard of in the industry, I took that upon myself.

You realize that your Dan-worship and attacks on those of us who are cautioning that he might not be Mr. Squeaky-Clean here, make it appear that YOU are being paid by Dan to defend his honor here. If you don't like being painted with that brush, then stop using it to paint others. Some people simply have an opinion.

Don't you dare EVER accuse me of being a paid shill.

I simply call 'em as I see 'em and I don't like what I see with Dan. The problem with pointing to his TOS/AUP like that, is phrases like "is defamatory or vioalates a person's privacy" - who is the host to judge what constitutes defamation? It is NOT the host's job to censor sites for potential violations. Dan's actions sound a hell of a lot more like censorship than anything else.

If the answer is no, then I again ask you to refrain from attacking him again; either here or on the other boards. If the answer is yes, then continue with your attacks in your next postings (or attack me); then we'll at least know why you are really here.

I, for one, will not be bullied into silence by your innuendos. I have no hidden agenda, I have not been 'attacking' anybody, simply commenting on the situation. You seem to think that anybody criticizing Dan has some hidden agenda or is out to hurt his reputation. Well guess what? People's opinion of Dan's actions differ. I believe people can make up their own minds.

Christoff555, please do not cast aspersions on people for making comments in this thread that you disagree with. Try having a civil discussion, instead of accusing me of all kinds of crazy things for stating my opinion. I still say this was censorship, not TOS enforcement, and that action did more to damage Dan's credibility and reputation than anything people are saying about him here.

Why should anyone respond politely to your last post, Christoff?

I hope and trust that this will bring to a close all discussion on this topic. We are not here to entertain the bellyaching and bad vibes issuing from the likes of the above mentioned persons.

I've reported your post to the mods for rudeness. If you can't handle debates with people who disagree with you then you should cease from participating here, instead of bad-mouthing those people.

Where do you get off using phrases like, "the likes of the above mentioned?" Frankly, I'm insulted by that, and all your other libelous statements regarding myself and others. I am not 'bellyaching' and if there are any bad vibes, it is you and Dan who have created them.

I still don't see discussion of the Dan issue as 'destruction of this board'. You must realize that not everybody agrees with you, and apparently others believe that Dan's actions are still a worthy matter of debate.

Words of Wisdom for all WHTers:

If you disagree with someone's statements about your host, then by all means defend your host. This is NOT accomplished by personal attacks against those with opinons different from yours.

Christoff555, your ad nauseum disgusting bellyaching and attacks are the source of the only bad vibes I'm catching. If you can't be polite, then YOU can kindly 'pi** off', because YOU are the one impeding the open discussion of these issues, with your lack of respect for other members and their legitimate opinions.

I can't tell you how much fun your postings are to read Christoff555. When I talked about people willing to blindly follow Dan to the end of the earth, you fit the description perfectly.

Originally posted by Christoff555
After being politely requested to "can-it" regarding your disgusting attacks against Dan, you blatently refuse to stop... and you continue the regurgitate his name (ad nauseam)... it makes me think you all have an agenda. Is Gunnels paying you to sh*t disturb here?

So, this is where you are against free speech. Since you don't agree that Dan is at least partially responsible, you want us to not say it and probably not think it also, right? I have no reason for Gunnels to pay me to speak my mind. Also, as I've mentioned on more than one occassion, I hold Steve Gunnels 100% responsible for the servers going down. I hold Dan responsible for not warning us before it happenned.


Originally posted by Christoff555
Now, you can all pi**-off with the thought... even the notion, that I will sit idly by and allow you to continue your onslaught without recourse.

That's your right. I won't tell you to "can-it" or to "shutup." Exercise your right to free speech. Really lay into us. I'd rather you tried using persuasive arguments rather than personal attacks, but it's your speech, so use it as you wish.

Originally posted by Christoff555
I believe in exercising free-speech, too.

That's obvious from your constant requests for those who don't agree with you to stop contributing to this forum.

Originally posted by Christoff555
Now, read the rules Dan has clearly posted on his current webhosting site and you'll see that whether you like it or not, he indeed does have the right to cancel any account, and not bother to tell you why, if he feels you have violated his TOS/AUP thereby bringing risk to his business. Period. I am sure his terms were the same on his besthost1 website as well. If not, I stand corrected.

I'm not convinced he had the right. Most landlords have to give a set amount of notice before evicting someone. There is an argument to be made that websites are tenants. Just because he puts something in a TOS doesn't mean that it's legal. I could put "you owe your first born if you click anything on this page" in my TOS, that doesn't mean that you are contractually obligated to do so. Even if Dan did have the right to turn off the site, that doesn't make what he did right.

Originally posted by Christoff555
I hope and trust that this will bring to a close all discussion on this topic.

Of course it won't. As for bellyaching, I believe that you're the only one that is doing that.

Originally posted by Christoff555
I really want to be your friend...
Wish I could believe you, but all you do is attack. You make no rational arguments as to why Dan shouldn't be held responsible for not warning us. You just attack us for saying anything negative about Dan. So, keep drinking the koolaid. I'll be here to speak the truth with logic and reason and without telling you to "can-it." I welcome your response.

Have a nice day. :)

- Jason

Originally posted by BigBison
If you disagree with someone's statements about your host, then by all means defend your host. This is NOT accomplished by personal attacks against those with opinons different from yours.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

- Jason

Members need to keep this thread on topic and polite. If not this thread will be closed.

The Gunnels Collective site just came back up. I read through all of the terms of service and then went to my favorite thread. Nearly all of my postings had been deleted by the web host or by Dan. I will not stand for censorship. I believe that freedom of speech is one of the greatest privileges we have. My statements were neither harrassing nor abusive. They were my opinions based on facts.

Anyone who believes in free speech will boycott The Gunnels Collective until the censorship of content, simply because the web host doesn't agree with it, stops.

- Jason

I think it would make a lot more sense to have that site hosted by a neutral third party, instead of by someone who is personally involved in the issue. Since discussion of Dan's involvement, actions or lack thereof is a topic of debate it doesn't make sense to have him moderating that very debate.

It's called 'conflict of interest', and that issue seems to be the main basis for criticism of Dan.

http://super.nu/

I guess Gunnels is back!

http://www.super.nu/proof.htm

Read!

"These companies are ALL the firms advertising in the August 1998 issue of PC Magazine, beginning on page 396."

Comparing his offers to 1998 competitors and pricing? LOL

Dave

And he only compared 12 and not the 15 at the start. Slipping up already.

I suspect he is doing this to make it hard to get chargebacks completed as he can say he is back up and offering your space back (now that most everyone has already paid to get hosting elsewhere), oh that and getting new paying customers...


Dave

Originally posted by Eu1net
Read!

OK. For anyone interested in a definition of 'libel', read that page. That kind of marketing tactic is not only in poor taste, but it goes against the law of the land here in the U.S. regarding what one company may or may not state about its competitors.

Whoa! This site loads SLOW! Maybe it's because this CANADIAN hosting company has only one T-3 line for ALL the domains they host?

My questions for Steve:

How many T3's do you have? Is it ten, as you claim? Or is it five 0C48's, as you also claim on the same website? Don't you think your customers would have preferred slow service over the past several weeks, over the disappearing act you pulled? I realize that page has been there for years without changing. Since it's no longer accurate and was a sleazy thing to do anyway, don't you think it's time to remove that page? Work on straightening out your own act, before making libelous accusations against your competitors.

Hate to break it to you all who are having a good time criticizing Gunnels' Super.nu site.... It's looked exactly the same for years. He's made no changes to it. So the fact that it's comparing 1998 prices is because he probably hasn't updated it since 1998.

I'm wondering if he'll start receiving our emails now. Perhaps he'll even start sending the SPAM again. Or perhaps we can expect an email telling us where to find our sites (wishful thinking?)

- Jason

I agree with DaveinVA.

I, for one, have been unable to view any of Gunnels' sites since this thread was dredged the other week, as they have been down. I did, however, check out:

www.archive.org

where I entered the URLs into the 'Wayback Machine' to check how old the pages are. They do go back to 2001, unchanged, but without being able to view the current site until now I had no way of knowing that.

With that out of the way, my criticism of Mr. Gunnels' site (sites, there sure are a lot of carbon-copies, aren't there) continues:

For those looking to prove intent to defraud:

WE ARE REGISTRARS!

I'm sorry Steve, but ICANN does not list any of your companies as registrars. Are you sure you aren't just a reseller, putting on (fraudulent) airs? That's from this page:

http://www.super.nu/special.htm

Which in and of itself is fraudulent, as it too has not undergone any changes for years. In the U.S., it is considered fraudulent to promote a 'limited time offering' (yes, I'm aware this practice is widespread, doesn't make it legal though) which never changes.

The big thing to keep an eye on, is if that signup page is activated before the current paying customers have their service restored. It would be incredibly fraudulent to accept new signups before straightening out the current mess:

https://sabrina.super.nu/fidpac/orderform.html

My suggestion, is to tally up all the lies on the website. You know, just in case you still need them. But I'm sure everything will come back up soon and be hunky-dory for the forseeable future, now... :rolleyes:

Originally posted on Gunnels Collective by Dan Levesque

This will in fact be my last post and it explains in more depth what I was up to the last month before his dissapearance and this is for the benefit of webitpub and any others who want to know . It should also be stated that normally the migration process is NOT suppose to be
3 boxes in a weekend up to 5 boxes in one weekend! etc.... I had been doing migrations for Gunnels for years and it's always
been 1-3 boxes per MONTH.... He was happy and pleased...That's the way it was supose to proceed and It fit directly into my personal business plan to in a sense secure some time enabling me to talk to clients and get them talked into coming over to my solution over time and I had even started that process. I'm not the only affiliate who was working on getting their clients to another hosting solutions during all of this. It's only that things sped up as the last month of june started to bring me problems with Steve at a level that was no longer acceptable. Refusals to pay my company invoices, belly aching that he had no more money etc... rediculous!
I can substantiate this migration timeline with invoices I hold here and emails I have in my posession.

He DID indicate to me how great the xeons were and how promising it was for sales etc... I've got emails proving that thus giving me indication that his hosting solution will be around for a LONG time. He could have sold it later etc... I'm not his keeper so I don't know what went through that head of his!
I forseen the migration from Ensim EV1 network to Xeon taking about a year being there was enough boxes to facilitate
that at 1 to 3 boxes per month as originally stated to him. No problem! He was all for that. UNTIL he realized that he owed ME money
and fighting ensued and then me telling him I have another hosting solution. Thats when for a week he bothered me to BUY him out.
I refused for many many reasons. I have physical witnesses that can corroborrate my conversations with him on this matter.

THEN, after he started arguing with me over my bill with him being paid and he then owed me money each week for
work done I told him was already 3 weeks in arrears. I did send out a mailing to my clients regarding some changes being made because I did indicate to him I was not going to refer any more sales to his hosting solution.. When I sent that emailing Steve didn't yet know about my hosting solution and if he did he kept it quiet.
It needed to be said to him at this point as I was NOT geing to be stolen from any longer! I had responsibilities to my family and current situation as I still had to make payments to my trustees. I was NOT going to be ripped off anymore. It was the straw that broke the camels back.
He then started to whine and moan about money, not having any and how he had to borrow from Claire his wife etc...
Funny how one minute everything fine then after I finally stood up to him demanding I get paid what he owe me that hs attitude changed.

He DID NOT want to pay any more server leases fees at EV1 so I was expected to migrate all people from those boxes asap
AS those boxes came due! That was NOT how normally migration timelines happen. I could NOT. For a number of reasons 2 of which are 1 he was refusing to pay me, and secondly my days of working 2 and 3 days with no sleep are over. There was NO way I was going to be able to do this or WANT to do this for him as he was already oweing me around 8k at that point and refusing to pay calling me asking to defer it over and over again and to buy him out at the same time. The migration would have had to be facilitated in less than 1 month on HIS terms! NO way!
Thats due to the fact that those EV1 Ensim box leases came due each month. That totally FOILED my year long migration strategy on the migration. That wouldnt give me time to talk to all MY clients as many of them wanted to get their time out of Gunnels first. It took me months before the migrations to set everything in motion for my bankruptcy, the setting up of my merchant processing and details with my trustees and acccountants. The entire process I figured about 2 years.

When I told him to find someone else to finish the migrations to get everyone to Xeons there was many boxes remaining to be migrated. I still hadnt been paid for the 3 weeks of work pervious AND told him at that point that I had another hostingt solution and he simply stopped emailing me and phone calls ceased after the last few calls to beg me to buy him out. When I refused he dropped and ran... He never said to me that he was going to leave the Xeons go... I had no choice but to watch and wait and come up with a contingency plan that didn't violate law on my end. Although he was obviously breaking the law where it came to dealing with ME I am in no position to pass judgement and broadcast what I knoew and MY business details to ALL clients.

I closely watched as boxes at EV1 became unplugged. I KNEW he was there and reading his mail because his mail spool reduced in size periodically which tells me that he WAS in fact polling webmail mail when he stopped responding to everyone including me. I waited a week then gave up and stopped accessing his systems becasue I had no business in there. It was a clear indication for me to leave. I have physical witnesses to this. Remember I'm simply an affiliate who done tech work for a price billed to him. I'm NOT his public relations and spokesperson to release official statements unless we as affiliates were given something to send to customers and most of all I was NOT his business partner so I had NO right to contact everyone even though he didnt have a problem doing this to us affiliates. He often called me his partner. I would LOVE to see paper work authenticating this!
Most clients on those boxes were not mine and regardless of opinion out there I have NO RIGHT to contact everyone to give them a heads up on something not confirmed. I had already sent emails to my clients from the most recent email list I had many of which bounced... the email indicated rough waters with Gunnels and that I had another solution for them should they want to leave as many were indeed as tired of him as I was. Roughly about a week later is when I had told him about my hostng solution so that email didn't help me much. I certainly wasn't going to broadcast my plans to split the scene as an affiliate 2 years ago. Certainly after knowing how manipulative he is and how he cut other affiliates I saw myself as no different. He would have probably dropped the Ensims last fall without a Xeon migration.
He could have easily paid the leases and made me look stupid and file charges against me for soliciting customers of which were not mine thus I did NOT post notice in the cpanel or email everyone. Some of you would have I'm sure but thats not me. He had already tried to transfer the box contact info to me of which I submitted complaint to the data center regarding this matter and its logged and time stamped
for the record.

In the meantime customers paid him which I have no control over, I fought for commissions AS some of these folks wrote me telling me they already renewed after me sending renewal notices! etc...
Some clients very pissed over time which I don't in any way shape or form blame them but many took it out on me for their own reasons and I certainly wasn't going to risk having them give a heads up to Steve which happend alot! Damned right I was going to be careful of who I spoke about my plans of setting up shop some place else and my plans to break away.


I would like to get one thing straigtened out and that is I owe NO ONE any explanations and my original post was to rebutt an accusation that I was suppose to have paid for his boxes while he was on vacation .... I was nice enough to post proof that this was not possible and also why would I even want to do that after people seeing real proof of a problem in long standing as a parent to affiliate relationship. I was clear on that. These forums are not a place for an official public inquiry where one has to prove his innocence and justify any previous action which was at my sole discretion... As for pulling the Gunnels forum when I did.. I'm not about to allow someone else interpret the law for me when I've been in this biz far too long to see what can happen. You can read whatever the hell you want into that decision its just that.. a decision I made to protect my existing customers on the box I pay the lease on. It has nothing to do with my previous dealings with Gunnels and I hold proof of that. So this will in fact be my LAST and FINAL post... perhaps one day those of you in doubt may have to send me a card of thanks for it could very well be the evidence the affiliates hold that proves intent against Gunnels... Hows you say? Its US the affiliates that get angry emails from Clients claiming they paid or got double billed and its US the affiliates that confront Gunnels on it thus getting rediculous answers.. for example like the one day a client paid by check and it had cleared, I contacted Gunnels to see why I hadnt gotton a confirmaiton on it... I threatened to call the client he wrote back and said the check JUST CAME IN THE DOOR, mmmmmm
Thats a crock cause the check had been cashed... so affiliate mail to Gunnels and connecting to clients and back and forth DOES
connect the dots better than just someone saying they were over charged... Its nice to see his explanation to the affiliate after hearing
from the client a different story Same happened to you weblifecanada, Steve indicated you never said ANYTHING about besthost1 yet you claim in an email that Gunnels said I would remain your contact etc.... I have the email, want to see his reply to what you said? PM me and I'll gladly send it.

Yes my post is long its because my details are many... So unless you are in my shoes don't bother making any judgements about me and my decisions.
I look forward to the day I can see him face to face again and present a case against him or at least my documents. It may be the only satisfaction I ever get. I'm sorry if I can't please everyone and didn't make the decisions that fit YOUR adjendas and I'm sure there are going to be people out there who can't see outside the box
but if anyone wants to come up and see what I have and here and listen to a number of individuals up here from my legal council to accountants I will gladly put you up if you cover your travel costs.... BTW propay doesnt allow Canadian Businesses if anyone else wondered that. I never billed a card in my life with my time as a Gunnels affiliate.
Thanks to some of those people that bought me beer via paypal etc for extra work I did for them. That indeed was very nice and I appreciated that.

I have emails proving he was happy about the Xeons migrations, proof of him abandoning at the time of his refusal to pay me what he owes me, emails regarding flooding me with moves I couldnt possibly do and my refusal to do them, proof of him obtaining mail which supposedly being away, proof showing migrations happen over months and months and not in days as he was shoving them on me all of a sudden, my list goes on ALL of which I have proof of and burned to ROM. I was advised to not post any more evidence as it is not advisable for me to post all of the evidence I have. I'm sure the prosecution does't show all their cards before a case goes to court.

I was an affiliate AND one of MANY workers he got to do work on this network. Im not about to drag their poor assess into this.
He was always good I see at exploiting peoples talents and I guess I was no exception to that rule.

want the short version of the last couple months?
me affiliate -- I do some tech work as did others ----- xeon migrations Steve happy --- I want paid as loan was paid off to Steve he then owed me money --- him fight me on it ---- I tell him of new company and he tries to get me to buy him out which I refuse --- he dissapears ---- then he scretly tries to steer ******** my way


Me partially responsible for what happend? I think not! I certaily would like to know what of Steves actions am I responsible for.
I'm not going to be anyone's punching bag and certainly am not responsible for Steves company, its decisions and the way he chooses and or chose to operate it PERIOD. Steve had FULL CONTROL over his destiny and the boxes in which he leased and answered to no one but himself. I fail to see how I am to blame for that.

As for your accusation of me deleting your posts webitpub? I dont have admin rights to Craigs board and I wouldnt stoop that low
to deny you the right to vent your beliefs.

So with all this said I KNOW the truth, and I KNOW what went down all through June and July as do some key people and I wish you all luck and I'm getting back to business and doing what a father should be doing.. providing for my family.


Regards
Dan

Please, 'BigBison', if you don't know the definitions of the terms libel and fraudulent, stop using them. And webpubit/anyone else, your attacks on Christoff are idiotic - you and anyone else would have done what Dan did, if you were in his position. If you were making enough money (and it was your only source of income) to pay for your home and family, you wouldn't have just risked it all and opened yourself up to a lawsuit by telling everyone their servers were about to go down. He would have known as well as Steve did that if he'd done that, Steve would have been much better off paying the bill to continue hosting, and suing Dan for libel.

I see Steve's own site is up and running but the one that I have left on his server:

hrproductions.org

is not working..., So, Steve, when do you propose to get that up and running with the 13 gigs and all the other bells and whistles?

I see there is an order form and I agree, you must take care of the ones errored on before taking orders on newbies.

Well, I see that Dan is back to rambling. The information was semi-entertaining, but most of it was completely irrelavent. I struggled to find tid bits of info that could even slightly address the concerns I have about Dan and his failure to warn us.

So, from what I can tell (ie my interpretation of Dan's ramblings), Dan was unable to warn us 2 years ago because his own hosting company wasn't ready yet. So, that seems to prove my hypothosis that Dan was only looking out for his own best interest and didn't care if we got ripped off in those 2 years. Fair enough.

Also, Dan says he didn't have any right to pass judgement when he knew that Steve's servers were going down, but he was willing to let his own clients know that something was wrong... Just not the rest of us. He thought it would be illegal.... NEWS FLASH DAN... What Steve did was illegal and by not reporting a crime that you had fore-knowledge of, you were an accomplice. That's a crime.

Finally, the last thing that I took away from all of his writings was that we all got screwed because of money. Money that he didn't get, money that he did get, money that he was owed, and Money that he wouldn't get from helping us.

I appreciate the fact that Dan was willing to let us all know what happenned and pass judgement on Steve as soon as the servers all went down, though. Great timing Dan. Can only pass judgement and let people know what Steve is all about once it's already all over the Net. Very helpful.

- Jason

Originally posted by SuperHoster2
And webpubit/anyone else, your attacks on Christoff are idiotic - you and anyone else would have done what Dan did, if you were in his position.
We're attacking Christoff555? I think you should go back and reread... He was directly attacking us. We were talking about Dan.

I hate to disagree with you, but in my life if I know that someone is doing illegal actvities, not only would I no longer associate myself with that person, but I would also report them to the authorities. I don't care if it is my job. There's always another job out there.

- Jason

Oh for God's sake, now you're saying that Dan is a criminal by means of being an accomplice. If you don't know the law, don't make cretinous assumptions.

You and BigBison have made it pretty clear you're both capable of talking nonsense - are you capable of being silent?

Also, no, I don't think you would just give up your sole means of income if you had a family to support. Or, maybe you would. It just seems silly to me.

Edit: For the greater good, it may be best to start a separate thread on Dan, and keep this one relating to the main topic.

Originally posted by SuperHoster2
Oh for God's sake, now you're saying that Dan is a criminal by means of being an accomplice. If you don't know the law, don't make cretinous assumptions.

Actually, it's true. Perhaps you should do some research into the RICO act. Guilt by association.


You and BigBison have made it pretty clearly you're both capable of talking nonsense - are you capable of being silent?

Yet another person who disagrees with our opinions and thus wants us to stop posting. I love it. Everyone says they love freedom of speech until someone disagrees with their opinions.

Also, no, I don't think you would just give up your sole means of income if you had a family to support. Or, maybe you would. It just seems silly to me.
Some of us have what are called "MORALS" and "ETHICS." Not only would I disassociate myself from a company or group comitting illegal acts, I have done so.

- Jason

Originally posted by SuperHoster2
Please, 'BigBison', if you don't know the definitions of the terms libel and fraudulent, stop using them. And webpubit/anyone else, your attacks on Christoff are idiotic - you and anyone else would have done what Dan did, if you were in his position.

Please quote where I have misused those terms.

Please read back a few posts, to OddFact's warning about locking this thread, and desist from calling others 'idiots'.

I would never have been in the position Dan found himself in. Had I been involved up to my neck in such a situation, I would never have agreed to host a forum/website about the situation on my server. Even if I had, it is not the job of the webhost to proactively monitor content. Like I said before, it moves beyond TOS/AUP turf and smack-dab into censorship, given the obvious conflict of interest arising from the fact that Dan was a contract employee of Steve's.

Dan shouldn't have touched that site with a 10-ft. pole, let alone dictated what content needed to be removed. Again, this is unheard of behavior which can't be brushed off with "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".

Originally posted by SuperHoster2
You and BigBison have made it pretty clear you're both capable of talking nonsense - are you capable of being silent?

Is your sole purpose of joining here, to make personal attacks against those you disagree with? Please, read the rules, in particular this one:

We take the "Be Polite" rule very seriously! We do not tolerate any rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive may be banned without warning.

If you are incapable of disagreeing with someone in a civil fashion, and must resort to personal attacks against them, then please leave WHT.

Originally posted by SuperHoster2
Also, no, I don't think you would just give up your sole means of income if you had a family to support. Or, maybe you would. It just seems silly to me.

Again, I would never have jeopardized my family or my personal reputation by doing business for someone for years after determining that they weren't on the level. That wouldn't be in the best interests of my paying clients. No amount of money would have caused me to stick out such a situation as a reseller. To do so, would have given me the appearance of being unethical, which I strive to avoid.

Originally posted by SuperHoster2
Edit: For the greater good, it may be best to start a separate thread on Dan, and keep this one relating to the main topic.

You're still missing the point. There is a viewpoint here, and it's perfectly valid IMHO, that Dan is involved in this up to his neck. Therefore, discussion of his actions or lack thereof is very much on-topic in this thread, no matter how many people sign up to attack me for saying so.

Closed for review and possible cleaning.

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