Ive descided to attempt to resale web space via a dedicated server only to find out its extremely more difficult then i thought, i have no real clue as to what some of you guys are talking about so i guess my first question is where can i go to find out what i need to know about getting started.

All the main sites are geared towards selling to people that already know what there looking for, but i on the other hand have no clue what some of the things they are saying means.

One thing i do know however is pricing, and they seem to be high! RackShack.net seems to be fair, but the setup is extreme, does anyone know of a better source? And there 300GB a month, is that for real? And if so why is there other companies charging $175 a month for the same server with only 30GB a month?

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated..

The best advice I can give you is to start off with a RAQ. This will give you a completely automated system so you don't have to do much administration but at the same time you will be able to learn almost everything there is to know about running servers.

Somewhere in this forum ive seen people mention the $299.00 setup fee at rackshack and claim that is nearly half the cost of the server, so my question is where can i buy a server for $600.00 because i would like a few??

The Cobalt 4i from RackShack, ,is it the same product as if i would by directly from the manufacturer? I mean, how can they sell for less then the direct manuacturer with more banwidth too?

And where in the world can i get out of that outrageous setup fee?? Ive heard nothing but bad things about rackshack on this forum and im honestly scared to go with them now, so the question is who do i go with?

Downtime and technical support is my big thing, downtime is unacceptable and as far as tech support, if im paying $150.00 a month for a server i dont feel a darn thing should go wrong with it.

Actually you are not buying a Raq from Rackshack, you are only renting a Raq from them. You pay them the money, and you can use it for your own purpose. When you stopped paying, they will take back the server and you will have to find someone else for a server. That's basically what "Dedicated Server" means.

As for the downtime, there're a few reasons why a server is down. If it's because of your back-end provider network down or something related with them, then they should be blamed. However, if it's only your little server fail to operate properly, which might be Apache failed or whatever, then you shouldn't blame your back-end provider. You rent the server, and you should take care of it. Managing the server etc is part of the job you have to do when renting a server. Some companies do help their customers to fix these kind of problems for free, but most of them will ask for an extra charge.

And about the Technical Support, you mustn't expect your back-end provider to fix every single thing for you. They will, however deal with minor problems. But major problems will cost you extra money to get the provider to fix for you. However, if they don't answer your e-mails, even for some minor issue, then that's not acceptable.

Guys, feel free to correct me if I made a mistake. :)

Well i wouldnt mind handling technical issues with my server, its just that i would have no clue as to how. I need a service that wouldnt require much support from my end to the server because i have no clue how to handle techical issues.

I also cant afford to pay those kind of fee's to experiment, so what should i do? Is there somewhere i can learn more detailed info on the servers and how to handle technical issues. And what sort of technical issues might i have to deal with?

Could be that this just isnt for me, because im not that great working on hardware..

Originally posted by jdp29053
And where in the world can i get out of that outrageous setup fee?? Ive heard nothing but bad things about rackshack on this forum and im honestly scared to go with them now, so the question is who do i go with?


There really are a lot of positive things said here about RackShack, from what I see, more good than bad.

I've been there growing on two months and I'm a happy camper... by and large.

They are in the last phase of moving to a new VERY nice datacenter and once settled in (give them a week or two) many of the problems you *do* read about here will be things that are solved much faster and likely will not be seen much anymore.

They have been running out of a colocation facility, which is not where their office is, so when something does go wrong, it's a problem for them to get to it to fix it. Once in the new location, they will be staffed 24/7/365 and will begin offering "world class" service levels.

As for the setup fee.. balance that against the great monthly price and the fact that likely, you'll not go over your bandwidth allowance for some time to come.. at least not until you have so much business, should you be so lucky to get it, that it will not matter if you have to pay a few bucks more.

I've had good luck with them, I'd never expect them to fix something that I messed up without charging me, and so far, they have not messed anything up themselves..

Visit their forum at rackshack.net. Yes, you'll find some unhappy people but you'll also find many more who are quite happy.. to the extreme in many cases.

Wait for the move to complete, they are moving the last batches of servers this weekend, I suspect they'll have things running smoothly (not that it is really bad right now) by next week sometime.

Shortness

most definately start with a raq if you get into doing this.

1. don't take on any customers for at least a month. consider learning the OS and the RAQ a business expense.

2. get a good book on linux from your book store. while you're at it. get a good book on linux security as well. there's a million book suggestions in this forum. just search around.

3. learn to love this forum. treat it with respect and it can be your best friend in your time of need. DEFINATELY take a day and just read as many posts as you can on the RAQ forum. i read every post for at least the first 10 pages the day before i got my RAQ. i learned so much and got so much done on my first day of RAQ leasing.


there are alot of online places for learning some basic linux. nothing like what you'd be able to learn with some good old linux experience. here are a few i still have bookmarked from 3 or 4 months ago when i first started on my RAQ4.

> unix command line syntax
http://www.computan.on.ca/docs/tech/unix.html

> more linux / unix syntax
http://www.aota.net/Telnet/commands.php3

> good little linux newbie guide
http://frf.hypermart.net/linux-newbie/

> linux basics
http://octoped.net/linux/linux_basics.html

> redhat docs page. i believe the RAQ4 is on 6.1, read up.
http://www.redhat.com/apps/support/resources/index.html


as for building your own server. i just built a server for my future project for a little less than $600. it's in a 1u black case (that i got for $130 on ebay. 300watt power supply), amd 1200/266(that i got cheap from my local Value Added Reseller), kingston 1.024gb pc133 RAM (again cheap from my local VAR), 2 x 20gb ata100/7200rpm Wester Digital hdd (again cheap from VAR), plus the motherboard with video on board & 10/100 riser card.

but anyhow. it's not rocket science. a little hands on and lots of reading and you'll be alright. the WHT RAQ forum pretty much answered everything i'd ever need to know for getting my box up secure at the beginning.

Ive been looking at the cobalt raqs because they seem about as user friendly as im going to find, but do i really need the Raq 4i since im starting out, or could i just go with the Raq 3 at some of these blow out sales?

Also, Linux i know nothing about so i will be doing some research on that, but before i do, is it neccessary? I mean could i go with a NT server and have the same services to offer my customer?

And how about the control panel for the Raq, i dont see many web hosts using them, if i used it for my customers would this be a bad thing?

Concerning RackShack ive been looking for an alternative, this company seems to have a good deal, what do you all think?
http://www.dedicatedservers.com.au

Originally posted by jdp29053
Downtime and technical support is my big thing, downtime is unacceptable and as far as tech support, if im paying $150.00 a month for a server i dont feel a darn thing should go wrong with it.

It doesn't matter how much money you're paying. Things go wrong. But $150.00 is cheap for a dedicated server, and you should expect to get what you paid for. IMHO.

Considering the Cobalt Raq web interface is it really neccessary for me to efficient in Linux?

It isn't necessary for Linux, it is merely a tool to help you admin the server (add accounts, etc.) quickly and give your end users a cp that will allow them to add things like pop accounts, etc. easily. I'm not sure what you are asking exactly...

What im saying is it seems that i can edit and change any and everything from the cobalt web interface(if im wrong on this please correct me). And if this i the case, why would i have to know a thing about Linux if i dont have to work with it directly?

Cant my users set up all of there pop3 accounts,ftp, etc. via the Site Administrator at the Cobalt web interface?

If i can do everything from the UI and so can my customers, do i really need to ever mess with Linux is what im asking?

Keep in mind im new to all this so this may sound like a stupid question, but im just trying to get my feet wet.

Thanks..

you also have to keep in mind that the control panel basically manipulates the particular hosting daemons you use WITH linux. DNS, accounts, etc. etc.


but you still have to worry about the security, performance, maintenance, and so forth of your server. which means you need to know at least basic linux. true, most updates and patches for the RAQ are in PKG form, which you can install using the control panel. however, you need to install a firewall and keep track of the system performance, which, you can't really do completely and accurately with just the GUI.


if you're not interested in the upkeep of a linux dedicated server, i'd recommend you go with a managed dedicated server or get a resellers plan somewhere. even windoze based servers need plenty of upkeep and are usually alot more expensive(due to windoze needing much more resources).

Im interested in the Linux, but i know very little about it and am trying to learn. Ive only owned cpu's that run off of windows so i know nothing about linux reallys, so im having to learn what i can.

I was thinking(be new at this) that i had to pay the monthly fee's and use the UI to edit options, settings, plans, and profiles and that was it, but it seems i have to do ALOT more than that which i suppose is requiring skills that i dont have nor i will most likely be able to learn anytime soon.

Half the stuff you guys are talking about on this board about command strings etc. i dont have a clue about so i dont know where i go from here i guess.. Except to not spend my money on something i obviously can use right now with my lack of knowledge, but i dont exactly see a complete guide on dedicated servers around either..

So what should i do just get the thing and play around with it?

hey, i didn't know anything about linux either when i got my server. i DID have alot of DOS usage back in the days, which definately helps a little.

i used the first 2 - 3 weeks as a learning experience. i read a little in my book on linux. i read almost the whole RAQ forum. i read those links i posted up above. so, when i got my RAQ it was all, "hmm. this sounds familiar i remember reading about this" and i would just go back and re-reference what i read and then do the action on my RAQ. within a few weeks, i had my RAQ fairly secure, up to date, and running one test domain. another week or so playing with the test domain. configuring DNS, changing settings to see what happens, etc. etc. and i was fine. my RAQ is now (3 months later) live and has been running fine since.

Im currently reading the Raq 4i manual and fixing to purhcase a linux OS and reading the above links you sent so maybe from there i can get myself going.

But ive recently had a change of heart on the servers. I took a better look at the ensim UI and at first it looked very plain, but in fact that seems to be a good thing, but seeing as ive never used any of them i wouldnt know.

Any feelings on this, the Cobalt seems to be nice as far as specs but why does the AMD offer so much more for so less(referring to the 1Ghz on rackshack.net for $99).

In my home cpu's i prefer AMD all the way, but should i be looking or something different in a server? I just refuse to believe its a better server and could offer that much more and still beat the cobalt price.

What do you think?
AMD with Ensim or the Cobalt seeing as im a beginner?

Also i would like to say this forum is great, and i appreciate you all putting up with my newby questions.

Originally posted by jdp29053
Im currently reading the Raq 4i manual and fixing to purhcase a linux OS and reading the above links you sent so maybe from there i can get myself going.

http://linuxdoc.org/ , should be able to find all the info you need there. if you have a fast conenection, just download and burn a distribution on a cd.


But ive recently had a change of heart on the servers. I took a better look at the ensim UI and at first it looked very plain, but in fact that seems to be a good thing, but seeing as ive never used any of them i wouldnt know

Any feelings on this, the Cobalt seems to be nice as far as specs but why does the AMD offer so much more for so less(referring to the 1Ghz on rackshack.net for $99).

In my home cpu's i prefer AMD all the way, but should i be looking or something different in a server? I just refuse to believe its a better server and could offer that much more and still beat the cobalt price.

What do you think?
AMD with Ensim or the Cobalt seeing as im a beginner?

Also i would like to say this forum is great, and i appreciate you all putting up with my newby questions.

Cobalts cost a lot more cause you get their "terrific" :confused: user and idiot friendly control panel.

IMHO a beginner can go iwth either , though cobalt is probably easier and more managable. Ensim is more powerful though, you can control quite a bit more of your server..

Did not you know that Cobalt RAQs run on older AMD's CPU?
So you basically get 2 times slower system, when you go with RAQ. Two times slower means you will put only 200 users per box instead of 400 (or 500).

Advise for you: partner with technically experienced guy before running into webhosting business.

So i should go with a pentium server over an AMD?
I havent yet to find any other way to do it rather then to run into it, financing isnt a problem its just im no tech. and if i was i wouldnt be reselling webspace:)

i'd prefer amd over pentium. most old school webhosts always prefer pentium of amd but eh. you'd be fine with either.

the RAQ4s only have k6-2 450 which is what i believe that previous poster meant about the speed.


if you go with the ensim, you would be fine with just the amd 1000 for $99. they seem to be out of the pentium machines at the moment.

If "financing isnt a problem" then:
- hire a linux admin (it should not be too expensive, cause you can offer a part time job or find a skilled student)

- go with Dual Pentium III, mirrored scsi dives and Plesk control panel (this config can easily host 600 - 700 average sites).

- colocate with reliable ISP, you will not need more than 128Kbps (burstable) for first several monthes

(i asumed you will not accept warez, adult sites, mp3 downloads)

- test it

- advertise everywhere

- Good luck!

Thats just it, financing isnt a problem if i can start out on my own, because i will be able to turn the profit round and afford to stay in business(hopefully).

I cant really afford to hire someone and if i could i still wouldnt be comfortable with it. I might just have to go with a Windows server .. Ive never even looked at linux before so i doubt it would be a good idea to try and run a server off of linux.

And some people suggest managed servers, but with the price of a managed server there is no way i can make a profit. So i guess im all around not in a good fix right now. First thing tomorrow im going to go a dozen or so books and do some research.

Windows itself is a mistake.

Why do you want to do everything yourself? Why not to partner with someone who has experience with system administration?

ok, ok it was just a suggestion and complete off-topic, sorry.

But really, you will need plenty of things to know (apache, dns, mysql, pgsql, qmail, apache mods, suexec, iptables etc.) if you want to jump into sys administration. Who will do sales in this case?

RAQ of course will take many issues off you. But it is a dead end.

Anyway, I gave you suggestions based upon my own experience.

Why is Raq a dead end? If it is please explain so wont bother with it.

And as far as your suggestion i have no doubt that probably everybody on this board has more experience with this stuff the me, so your probably right about what i should do, but how would i do it?

I mean i cant afford to pay someone an hourly rate.. If i had someone lets say that would handle the administration while i handled the advertising,sales, and paying for the servers and we could come with a reasonable profit sharing between the two of us i would go with that.

But how many people are willing to take that risk with someone they dont even know. I believe you have a good point, but i dont see how i could afford to hire someone hourly.

Any suggestions as to how to make that happen?

My suggestion is not to even think about making a profit right now. Even if you could find someone to held you with administration, I think it would be a good idea to have more than 1 tech at any moment.
Why dont you rent a dedicated server (the cheapest you can find) , and play around with it, learning the in's and out's of hosting and the os. After maybe a couple of months, I'm sure you would have a much better idea of what it involves and can make a decision from there.

The only good thing about RAQ (in its current incarnation) is that it gives pretty simple interface to manage it. It also gives a pretty simple interface to your customers.

But:
- RAQ comes with IDE disks (which eat CPU resources much more than SCSI)
- It has relatively slow, outdated CPU
- It has only a single CPU

You will need a plenty of RAM and CPU power in a case you plan to keep all services on a single box. Ideally, you need a dedicated server for each: Web services, Mail, SQL and 2 DNS servers. But this setup costs a lot.

In the meantime, you need to find a way to keep all services on a single machine (assuming your ISP or domain registrar will keep a secondary DNS for you), but be able to expand it on several machines in the future without headache.

This is a BIG problem I met sometime ago. I found a solution: H-Sphere control panel. It allows you to start with a single box (but i recommend to setup unique IPs for each service) and then, when you have enough funds, to expand on ULIMITED number of physical servers. More details at http://www.psoft.net

But of course it is almost imposible to do everything being a novice with Unix. Definetly your skills with it will grow, but why loose time?

And RAQ is an ideal way to host several personal sites.

As for a sysadmin, try to create a win-win proposal, so a person will benefit as your hosting business grows.

H-Sphere seems very nice and like something that would definately benefit me. But about the Raq, if thats not a good choice then what would be?

Originally posted by jdp29053
H-Sphere seems very nice and like something that would definately benefit me. But about the Raq, if thats not a good choice then what would be?

As a "newbie" still learning and running a small web design/hosting business on a RaQ... I'd give the very strong recommendation to go with the RaQ.

Keep it for a year, learn while you earn. If sometime before then your business grows and you are turning a profit, then think about getting a bigger machine or several.

The RaQ is by far the easiest to manage for a newbie, mainly due to the updates being provided by cobalt in pre compiled, easy to install packages..

I did it with zero knowledge of linux... got into trouble by not securing the box. there are numerous step-by-step help messages out there that will get you set up for the RaQ.. they are designed for "newbies" so therefore, there are a lot of "newbies" who have them, are learning and are very willing to share knowledge..

That's my $.02 and 1/2 on the issue.. You can beat the decision to death but performance will not be an issue, by the time it becomes an issue, you will either be making so much money that moving will not be a problem, or you'll be out 99bucks a month and your setup fee for the education you received..

Trust me... as one newbie to another.. choose the RaQ!

Shortness

Ensim, WHM, H-Sphere etc enables you to do many tasks, much more than Cobalt's CP. However, as for a beginner, Raq will do a good job to give you the rough idea of what you need to do while managing a server, because the CP is plain, so it only shows most of the important stuff you have to manage, which is unlike other control panels, showing a lot of stuff which beginners don't actually have to touch them, and might even confuse you.

Well actually choosing any control panel should not be a problem for a beginner, as most of them are very user friendly, and have docs, manuals and forums for you to get help incase you need any. Just that they might confuse you a little with lots of features which you might not understand.

Originally posted by jdp29053
Somewhere in this forum ive seen people mention the $299.00 setup fee at rackshack and claim that is nearly half the cost of the server, so my question is where can i buy a server for $600.00 because i would like a few??

The Cobalt 4i from RackShack, ,is it the same product as if i would by directly from the manufacturer? I mean, how can they sell for less then the direct manuacturer with more banwidth too?

And where in the world can i get out of that outrageous setup fee?? Ive heard nothing but bad things about rackshack on this forum and im honestly scared to go with them now, so the question is who do i go with?

Downtime and technical support is my big thing, downtime is unacceptable and as far as tech support, if im paying $150.00 a month for a server i dont feel a darn thing should go wrong with it.
Ya but the setup fee for the new linux boxes ARE half of the server cost :)

Originally posted by Donovan
Ensim, WHM, H-Sphere etc enables you to do many tasks, much more than Cobalt's CP

I think any "newbie" could manage any of the cp's.. the bigger concern is keeping up with the updates requiring knowledge of "ix" greater than most would be able to gain in a short period of time.

Get someone in there who does not know what they are doing and have them recompile the kernel...

Or worse.. have them leave security updates undone because they don't know how to compile the .tar files..

If Ensim and the others provided packaged, self installing updates, then I'd agree that a newbie should consider them all.. with the above in mind, IMHO, there is no other way to go than the Cobalt.

At least for the first bit of time.

Shortness

Originally posted by shortfork

If Ensim and the others provided packaged, self installing updates, then I'd agree that a newbie should consider them all.. with the above in mind, IMHO, there is no other way to go than the Cobalt.


Yup, I mean when the control panel is included in the server, which many of the providers will do that for you nowadays. I don't think any newbie can handle all those complicating steps (they are, for beginners of nix) to install a control panel.

Whichever you select, you will need at least some nix knowledge. However, you can learn through all the basics real fast with Raq, which you have to do some higher-level tasks manually in telnet, which will provide you an environment to learn how to do stuff.

Other control panels will have most of that included. And things like PHP or MySQL will be included along the server, unlike Raqs, which you need to install manually. But honestly, that's how I learn about Linux. Not enough to be a guru of course, but more than enough to handle most of the tasks.

Go with Raq. :) As the Raq forum here is extremely helpful for whatever problems your might occur, you should have no fear for Cobalt Linux & Raq.

definately, go with the RAQ. start of small, take your time to build your hosting relationships & learn more on a small scale. when it comes time and you're doing well enough with your business, you can keep the RAQ and then get another more powerful machine from rackshack. you'll have plenty of knowledge and experience to warrant your taking on a more intense server & software. you can still use the RAQ to host your small customers and the new server for newer larger site customers.

i don't think there's anything left to be said. if you want to get into hosting on your own(leased) machines, you'll definately need to learn these things. if you don't want to try to learn them, then you should look into a reseller's account from a reputable host.

Well, don't forget that you'll need to learn more than just Linux.

You'll need to learn a lot about networking, Internet protocols, and all of the software that services those protocols.

I have alot to learn, heh. Well im going to go with the Raq and just fool around with it. As far as larger machines i wasnt aware i would need anything other then a Raq, but i'll look into that when its time.

As far as learning all the software and details of the programs, im trying but all the websites on the subject normally dont really cover from beginning to end, its just random knowledge thrown all about the site, so im going to do some major reading while playing with the Raq.

See when i test drove the Cobalt control panel thats all i saw and i thought that was all i dealt with, i dont see how someone would use linux to interface with it on the administrative side, because all the demo shown was that.

So off to the book store i go!

Completely off the subject, how many sites can i host using only the initial 2 IPs with the Cobalt?

Name based sites - more than enough (as many as you want) :)
Ip based sites - 2

Wouldnt be in my best intrest to allow only IP based sites?

Right now, the most prevalent reason for having an IP based site is for SSL, securepop, and maybe letting a user use an ip address to access his site before his dns propogates (though you can always use domain.com/~username) . Other than that, name based sites can do mostly everything else. If you need more ips (you have many secure sites) , you can always ask yo provider for more, so actually its a moot point.

and if you go with rackshack, i think you can have up to 8 IPs free right? i dunno, i don't use them, so, maybe someone else can let us know...

Thats a good question, but i dont think they mention it on there site, but they do sale in incrememnts of 4.

How about the monthly charge for memory and hard drive upgrades they place? Is that normal? Why would they charge monthly for a memory upgrade?

If you are running /managing your own dedicated server solely for hosting purposes, then I would recommend you get 5 IPs.

Actually Rackshack provide you with 1 IP and you can request for 8 more if I am not mistaken.

Why do you need at least 5 IPs ?

1st IP = yourraqdomain.com (Use it for your main site only & ssl)

2nd IP = ns1.yourdomain.com (Change it to yours instead of Rackshack)

3rd IP = ns2.yourdomain.com( Change it to yours instead of Rackshack)

4th IP = Use it for virtual name based hosting

5th IP = Use it for spare ssl, anon FTP or for client that needs IP based hosting.

Hehe, it's better to organise & plan your server system/IP well when starting new and not regret later.

Hope this helps and good luck with your new toy.. Oops sorry venture:) and learn as much as you can on what the others have adviced/mentioned if you want to service your clients with the best tech support.

Whats the best way to manage multiple servers. Are there any UI's that would allow me to do this easier?

Not sure if you know or not, but 4webspace.com is another excellent place to get your raq and learn. :) Best support among the industry...