HostRocket - Above the law? [Archive]

Chicken

12-14-2001, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by tell-me
[B]Chicken.
Firstly. What details do you want.[B]
Well, let's just review the first post...

Originally posted by tell-me
Are there consumer protection laws in the US?
Yes, there are.
I study law elsewhere. Where I live hostrocket would be prosecuted for the manner in which they conduct their business. I wouldn't need to sue them. The state would do it on my behalf to protect society from them.

Their advertising is misleading and deceptive.
As it pertains to your situation, in what way?
Their business practices are dishonest and oppressive.
As it pertains to your situation, in what way?
They claim 24/7 support yet their support staff are discourteous, obnoxious, belligerent and arrogant. They completely ignore questions from customers and disregard the rights of individuals foolish enough to conduct business with them.
Again, while I don't mean to ignore your opinions, 'disregard the rights of individuals' could be clarified, as it doesn't actually tell us anything. It is just a blind statement. (Also 24/7 support generally doesn't extend to the quality of the support.)
As a courtesy to the world i intend to dedicate my life to informing every person on this planet of the perils in dealing with such an unscrupulous and dishonest company as hostrocket.
No offense, but sounds like you need to post your experiences once on the forum, to let others know your experience, and possibly contact the local BBB (if you deem it necessary). Devoting one's life to something, is a big decision.
Their management do not deserve to be in business Their support staff do not deserve to be employed let alone out of jail.
Again, blind statements, no examples, backing of any kind to warrent such statements. Again, I'm not trying to put you down, but you've posted a whole bunch of fluff, with absolutely no substance.
Please reply with suggestions on how i can spread this far and wide so i can prevent others from experiencing the same grief as i have done.
My suggestion is to attempt to resolve the situation with the host, and if that doesn't work, post something that explains the problems you have. As Eric Radtke said though...
I give the guy credit for explaining his position without the use of the words "sucks", "scam", and "rip-off"
I agree. I think you are having problems, but you really didn't explain what the problems were, and while you didn't scream, "SCAM!!!", you also didn't post anything of value to people considering them.

One Web

12-14-2001, 01:04 AM

And the chicken is right as always ...

tell-me

12-14-2001, 03:55 AM

Chicken.
Just a few minor details required I see! Specifics of my hr experiences will be provided in the not too distant future. I am unwilling to fully detail them at this point however I can offer some explanation of the comments I origionally made that have aroused your interest. You'll gain an appreciation of where I'm coming from and the gaps will be filled in at a later time. I assure you, I do not wish to create any mystery and will shortly be more than willing to answer any questions you and others might have.
I'm not expecting to gain access to my files as hr staff appear to have identified this post. Their last contact (several hours ago) stated they would unsuspend my account. They haven't done so nor have they responded to any of my questions since then. I nearly replied to hr justin but was warned against it in two PMs.

Partially addressing your questions:
"As it pertains to your situation, in what way? "

Advertising is misleading and/or deceptive if it expressly states or by implication offers a service or element thereof that the merchant does not provide or satisfactorily provide and if this induces a party to enter into a contractual relationship which he/she would not have done had they known the true nature of the service provided.
Offering 24/7 has an implication unless otherwise stated of some immediacy in attending to enquiries. It further implies that enquiries will actually be attended and responded to and not ignored or closed without any response whatsoever.
Offering features as part of a hosting package is a clear implication to prospective customers that upon entering into a hosting agreement they may use those features and any limits upon their use will be explicitly provided in advance.
Not satisfying both of the above constitute breaches of (in NZ) The Sale of Goods Act (1968), The Consumer Guarantees Act (1990) and The Fair Trading Act (1993). The latter two both being enforced by state prosecution.

"Their business practices are dishonest and oppressive"

Invoking a Terms of Service clause to suspend an account and continue to obtain for yourself a pecuniary advantage is dishonest and oppressive if the clause on which you seek to rely is neither certain and complete nor capable of being rendered certain and complete and this has been done. The basic theory of this is that a term in a contract can only exist if both parties have agreed to it. A term can not have been agreed to by both parties if one chooses not to provide the information to the other that would render it certain. Where one party at the request of the other chooses to refuse to discuss or answer questions that would otherwise have provided the requisite certainty then the term itself ceases to exist. If it doesn't exist then it cannot be relied upon as means by which the agreed performance may be ceased and consideration retained. It is the service provider in breach of their contractual obligation not the customer and they have no right to retain a benefit that arises from their own wrongdoing. That is clearly dishonest.

"'disregard the rights of individuals' could be clarified"

All individuals have the right to be treated fairly. Being treated fairly includes being given the right to express ones view or opinion and to have that opinion considered by any party that is in such a position to act in a manner they know will cause harm to the other. Basic natural justice. It also means not acting in a manner likely to cause harm to the other unless it is absolutely necessary to do so. To consider carefull the action to take when harm will result as to whether alternatives exist. When more than one course of action is available to a dominant party in a contractual relationship they are obliged to take that course of action that causes the least harm to the other. This assumes they are in fact entitled to take those actions in the first place.
When the provision of support is promoted then Support staff are obliged as best they can to answer questions raised by their customers. Replying to a message without any attempt to address the content it contained and repeatedly ignoring requests to answer clear and specific questions is discourteous, obnoxious, belligerent and arrogant.

"(Also 24/7 support generally doesn't extend to the quality of the support.)"

I agree. It does encompass the availability of support. "Support" itself implies there exist people with a desire to assist, where possible be helpful and when problems arise will endeavour to resolve those problems.

"contact the local BBB"

I'm not too sure what that is. We have a Ministry of Commerce here who handle violations of consumer protection laws. I doubt they have any jurisdiction over a US company but I will enquire as they may following an inquiry be able to injunct hr from offering their service here. They would certainly act if hr was a local company.
I visited your bbb.com but they had no record of hr. I'm not sure but it appeared as though a company was required to be a member for information to be available.

"Devoting one's life to something, is a big decision."

Undoubtedly an exaggeration. I'm sure a time will come when my blood pressure returns to its normal state. However I have holidays till the beginning of March and with my partners we will do all we can to help and educate others. It won't be too difficult to set up a few sites and integrate advisory sections perhaps a forum. A couple of friends have sites with huge visitor counts and I'm sure they'll assist us. I've also received some brilliant suggestions from members of this board. I wont be spending my entire life let alone the entire summer break but each of us spending some time each day will have a more than minimal impact on public awareness.

"Their management do not deserve to be in business Their support staff do not deserve to be employed let alone out of jail."

Perhaps this was my emotions getting the better of me. I do believe that people should not be in business serving the public if they have no regard for the rights of that public or if they fail to act in good faith and adhere to the contracts they enter. I also believe no person should be employed in a customer support role if they have no regard for their customers. The reference to jail wasn't intended to imply that any support staff acted criminally. I don't believe they have acted criminally however I believe they have acted in bad faith and in breach of my contractual relationship with their company. Their responses and failure to respond to my requests for help in resolving our problem in unprofessional in the extreme. I simply wouldn't hire them rather than actually have them throw in jail. They'd get free food in jail!

"attempt to resolve the situation"

Having the current suspension removed would not have been impossible had I not posted here. I have little doubt that this thread has ensured they don't allow me access again. Getting the site back up was not really going to ensure it remained up as they appear determined not to answer any of my enquiries that would ensure no promlems arise in the future. Certainty and completeness will never exist and undoubtedly they would again at some point in time seek to rely on their illegitimate clause.

"SCAM!!!"

I don't believe they have deliberately ripped us off. They simply don't employ staff with sufficient intelligence to recognise that being attentive and discussing issues with customers before they become problems is smarter than acting high handedly after an event they could have prevented actually occurs.
The financial cost to us and gain to them is insignificant. The principle isn't.

Chicken. Be patient. You'll get the rest.

netsolutions

12-14-2001, 04:16 AM

tell-me, I could tear you apart in law with those accusations.

1) They claim to offer 24/7 tech support but they are rude, arigant, bla bla bla to the point they aren't very nice. Well they do offer 24/7 tech support. They advertise that and they offer that. Doesn't say anywhere that they have to be nice or whatever. That would be nice yes, however it is not required!

2) I wouldn't have to sue them the government would go after them and bla bla bla. Again, you have said nothing that they have done that is illegal. So they aren't the nicest people in the world. They offer you a service, you pay them, if you don't like it you get there money back. Granted there have been a few complaints here and there but more or less they are pretty good.

3) I'm going to make it my life goal to tell people bla bla bla again. In their law (US) they could actually sue you if you went to far so I'd watch it.

To some this up there have been lots of complaints and you judge Host Rocket as being a horrible host and what not. The fact of the matter is you hear a dozen or two out of 1000s of clients they have. Remember that they did have a 9.something % on Host Search with almost 250 votes. Hey, I don't love Host Rocket or something in fact I'm a competitor. I just don't like it when I see people saying stuff that really isn't true.

Asher S

12-14-2001, 04:19 AM

whew :blush:
Thats a whole bunch of steam you've let off :)

craftywolf

12-14-2001, 04:28 AM

Doesn't anyone SLEEP around here? Sheesh...............Sleep, I used to remember the meaning.

Remember, Mis-communication brings Mis-understanding.
There is a postive answer for everything best suited for everyone.
Sometimes it is just better to drop things and move on.

Anyway. You guys all have a good xmas.

Cheers

TMX

12-14-2001, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by netsolutions
tell-me, I could tear you apart in law with those accusations.
Well, not really.

Granted there have been a few complaints here and there but more or less they are pretty good.
There have been lots and lots of complaints by many different people. Most of those complaints have been about the same two or three issues. Hostrocket's history of substandard support is well documented, both here and elsewhere.

3) I'm going to make it my life goal to tell people bla bla bla again. In their law (US) they could actually sue you if you went to far so I'd watch it.
If tell-me's (as-yet-unheard) account of his hostrocket experience is accurate, AND he can prove it, Hostrocket can't touch him, regardless of how negative an impact such a story might have on Hostrocket's business or reputation. In the USA, truth is an absolute defense to libel or slander charges.

-Bob

HR Justin

12-14-2001, 10:20 AM

Hey Tell-me,

If you dont think we ripped you off (which we have not to our knowledge), then please let me know who you are, and what we have done specificly through email. We would like to get this issue resolved.

Thanks,

Justin Mazzi
justin@hostrocket.com

craftywolf

12-14-2001, 10:24 AM

You can't ask for much more than the above. Sounds like an honest reply to rectify an unknown problem.

SoftWareRevue

12-14-2001, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by netsolutions
tell-me, I could tear you apart in law with those accusations. . . . .I, somehow, find that difficult to believe. :rolleyes:

Oh! Not to mention . . . rude :eek2:

bullsquirrel

12-14-2001, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by HR Justin
Hey Tell-me,

If you beleave we are unaware that we have ripped you off...[snip] hmmmm, does anyone else have a problem with the way this is worded? :eek:

Asher S

12-14-2001, 01:25 PM

LOL YEAH :)
Its like saying:

'All your base are belong to us ;)'

bullsquirrel

12-14-2001, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by ^Kyo
LOL YEAH :)
Its like saying:

'All your base are belong to us ;)' ROFLMAO

kmh

12-14-2001, 02:42 PM

Do you have logs to backup this claim?

Heh. I /do/ have logs of arrogant & beligerent communication from HR staff, actually. I saved copies of all te trouble tickets from when I was there, as well as other correspondence.

However, I have no desire to share any of this publicly. I did not like the service I was receiving, so I left. But, I have friends with accounts at HR that are still there and have never had any of the particular troubles I have had. I also have friends who have had the same sort of trouble who have found other hosts.

HR is not perfect. They are lacking in some areas. But, they are strong in others. My thought? If HR works for you, then enjoy. If HR does not work for you, then quietly find another host. If you have tried 13 different hosts and they are all terrible, it's time for self-examination.

netsolutions

12-14-2001, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
I, somehow, find that difficult to believe. :rolleyes:

Oh! Not to mention . . . rude :eek2:
If you studied law you'd know that the acusations he made would in no way be excepted. By his complaints he doesn't like the service. Okay grant him that, however that doesn't mean the government would step in and take over.

jfraga

12-14-2001, 05:37 PM

Oh boy.

Netsolutions- the way you've jumped into this fray against the guy who started this thread has me convinced that one of the following applies to you:

1. You are either an agent of, or affiliated with HostRocket in some way,

or

2. You truly have no idea just how awful an experience it can be to deal with HostRocket.

Let me tell you, it is infuriating, to say the least, to experience the events that I have at that host since I signed up in October. I saw the bad reviews, and decided that I would give it a try and be open-minded, and make my own decision. Bad move.

I wonder if you truly have any idea what it's like to have your site down 10 or more times daily, to send in a trouble ticket and have the response "well, it looks alright now" or "we are rebooting the server, it will be ok shortly" almost every single day. In most cases, I couldn't go more than 2-3 days without the site being down sporatically throughout the day, or have my email fail to connect for one reason or another. Even more enjoyable is having somebody call you on the telephone to rip you because you didn't respond to an email they sent. I lost more email with hostrocket in two months than I ever have in the 6-7 years that I've been online. When pressed for an answer on why problems persisted or what it was that was causing them, there was never an answer save for "Well, it'll be fixed soon". I would say that 80% of my trouble tickets were answered, with 20% never responded to at all. When they were answered, it was often with curt one-line sentences that often caused more irritation than anything else. Say you sent in a trouble ticket about an email problem and included ALL KINDS of information. Server error messages that were displayed, etc. Enough information to know that there was something going on with their server. A typical response from HostRocket would be "well, are you using the correct password to connect?" This after stating in the trouble ticket that you've checked over your password and login information and are still getting the error.

I can go on and on and on and on, but I won't. The bottom line is that I laugh every time somebody comes full-steam to HostRocket's defense. The only good thing about them is their prices.

netsolutions

12-14-2001, 06:02 PM

First of you don't know anything about me so don't open your mouth. To answer your questions

1) I'm actually a competitor against Host Rocket so I'm in no way tied with them.

2) Actually I use to host with them before I became a host myself so I do know.

Jeff Rambo

12-14-2001, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by netsolutions

If you studied law you'd know that the acusations he made would in no way be excepted. By his complaints he doesn't like the service. Okay grant him that, however that doesn't mean the government would step in and take over.

May I ask where and for how long did you studied the American and New Zealand legal systems? Specifically with regards to corporate and consumer law.

netsolutions

12-14-2001, 06:10 PM

Host Rocket is not in New Zealand so it doesn't matter what your law says. It only matters what the US law says about them in this matter and they have done NOTHING illegal.

Jeff Rambo

12-14-2001, 06:16 PM

My question was to help determine what your background was to formulate such previous statements in regards to tell-me's posts.

You obviously have no clue as to how the legal system works in his necks, New Zealand, for you to be breaking down his understanding of the law and with you being in Canada I'd be one to assume you don't know much about the American legal system. Correct me if I'm wrong as all I wanted was some background in the first place but you decided to take the defensive.

netsolutions

12-14-2001, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Jeff Rambo
My question was to help determine what your background was to formulate such previous statements in regards to tell-me's posts.

You obviously have no clue as to how the legal system works in his necks, New Zealand, for you to be breaking down his understanding of the law and with you being in Canada I'd be one to assume you don't know much about the American legal system. Correct me if I'm wrong as all I wanted was some background in the first place but you decided to take the defensive.
You know I would just love someone with that opinion to go through the Canadian education system. You know what we learn? We learn, Americian law, Americian history, Amierician geography, Americian spelling half the time. In general, us Canadians actually do know a lot about the US system.

HRBrendan

12-14-2001, 07:16 PM

Hi,

Coming into this a little late obviously, but I've talked to everyone involved on our side of things and I can tell you pretty much what happened on our side of things. His account is on a fairly robust server... dual 1.2ghz, 4 gb ram, 15kscsi disks etc, which is not overloaded by any stretch and runs with a load average of under 1.5 regularly. A script on his account has before and did again go awry for whatever reason and raise the server load to 150+ rendering the server completly useless for all intensive purposes for everyone else on the server. What our staff is supposed to do and did do in this case, was to take the necessary steps to get this server back up and running for as many people as possible as quickly as possible, which in this case meant suspending the users account. The user contacted us at 2001-12-13 13:38:44 reguarding the issue, and was made aware of why their site was down by one of our techs by 2001-12-13 EST at 13:39:33. The ticket was then used to discuss a remedy to the situation which from our point of view is the removal or at least limited use of the script in question until the problem can be isolated and fixed, which is I believe where the situation stood up until this? This is pretty much a by the books thing for us, and while it may have made one customer fairly angry it kept the sites of everyone else on that server running as smoothly as possible which is basically what our job is to do.

-Brendan

Jeff Rambo

12-14-2001, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by netsolutions

You know I would just love someone with that opinion to go through the Canadian education system. You know what we learn? We learn, Americian law, Americian history, Amierician geography, Americian spelling half the time. In general, us Canadians actually do know a lot about the US system.

From your response, I gather you're referring to a standard school curriculum and not an actual legal studies curriculum?

Chicken

12-14-2001, 07:34 PM

Lets keep this on the wee bit of topic it should be on. Discussing eachother's knowledge of law, etc., can be done in another thread.

While the clarification was appreciated, the thread starter should have waited until he could have posted some info, rather than post a generalized coming soon post.

I'm sure he's having a problem of some sort, but it seems this is all midway into it.

jfraga

12-14-2001, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by netsolutions
First of you don't know anything about me so don't open your mouth. To answer your questions

1) I'm actually a competitor against Host Rocket so I'm in no way tied with them.

2) Actually I use to host with them before I became a host myself so I do know.

Don't open my mouth? Way to put your foot in your mouth, <edit>. Maybe you USED to host with them, but that doesn't mean you know a damn thing about how things have been with them recently.

Here's my email address if you want to continue this <edit>

jay_fraga@applimetrix.com

Jeff Rambo

12-14-2001, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Chicken
Lets keep this on the wee bit of topic it should be on. Discussing eachother's knowledge of law, etc., can be done in another thread.

While the clarification was appreciated, the thread starter should have waited until he could have posted some info, rather than post a generalized coming soon post.

I'm sure he's having a problem of some sort, but it seems this is all midway into it.

Concur and will back off. I apologize if it may have seemed I was attempting to incite a #!$$'n contest. However, I just found it odd that someone was stating holes that did not even exist in an individuals approach to a public statement regarding HostRocket.

I'm not taking sides, however the reason he is being vague is for various reasons -- namely due to HostRocket still having control of his account -- which you may then ask "Why post at all until they don't?" Well, to establish a dated paper-trail published in a public medium relating to the hosting industry for starters. Another reason he is being vague at the moment is for HR not to have grounds to accuse him of libel/slander.

Like I said, I'm not taking sides, I'm even considering going with HostRocket for an account in the very near future... but if you're going to comment on legal matters, at least know what you're talking about as false legal statements does entirely more damage than good.

Disclaimer: RHHLLP is a consultancy, not a law firm.

netsolutions

12-14-2001, 07:53 PM

Temper temper. Finish this like a man? Don't use big words you can't understand :) If I recall finish it like a man would mean fighting which would be one area you do not want me in. This is a thread dude, chill. You need to calm down a bit and take break. You don't have to get so worked up over a simple thread.

hostgold

12-14-2001, 07:54 PM

Gentlemen It is time for you all to cool tempers and go back to your collective corners. I would hate to see one of the moderator decide to ban you from here because you had a temper issue

jfraga

12-14-2001, 08:00 PM

Believe me, netsolution- I've had plenty of reason in the last three months to get fired up over Hostrocket. For someone to tell me that they have excellent service after what I've been through is about the same as somebody trying to convince me that it's safe to swim with cinder-blocks tied to my feet. It's totally ludicrous.

craftywolf

12-14-2001, 08:10 PM

Sacrifice 1 to save many.

MarcD

12-14-2001, 09:16 PM

ummmm i have a client who just signed up for hostrocket they wouldnt listen to me on my hosts recomendations and went off and found there own How umm polite way to say this how bent over and ready for host rocket are they ?

tell-me

12-14-2001, 11:42 PM

HRBrendan

While nothing in your post is untrue it seems remarkably limited in addresssing any of the comments i've made. While others in this forum do not have the ability to see the tt logs you do. You have the ability to recognise and no doubt do recognise precisely what matters within those logs my complaints relate.
Also remarkable is your willingness to provide information that previously you had been unwilling to provide to me.

I am not and never have disputed your right to protect the interests of other customers. I believe you have obligation to do so rather than simply possess a right. As for making "one customer fairly angry". You sure did. You achieved this not by taking a singly action as your post implies but by the series of events leading up to the most recent suspension of the account. It remains that series of events that form the focus of my anger and were responsible for the formulation of the opinions I now possess.

My main issue with your post arises from your final sentence.
"which is basically what our job is to do"
Is that really what your job is? Simply to keep the servers running? I'm sure it is an element of your job but isn't 24/7 support something more than simply keeping the servers running? Surely "support" also encompasses providing assistance and advice where possible? Attempting to answers questions for customers when they arise or at least acknowledging questions that cannot be answered. Ignoring or refusing to answer questions can not possibly be support.
The last tt in your logs provides a stunning example. The final entry is a request from myself to answer or attempt to answer six brief questions. The response made by YOU was the closing of the ticket. The questions were not answered let alone even acknowledged. There remains no evidence of them even having been read. Is that really 24/7 support? This is not an isolated incident. It is entirely consistent with a pattern of conduct you and other support staff have exhibited in recent days. I made repeated attempts to discuss matters with you and obtain answers that might assist in avoiding any future problems. Almost entirely without fail these attempts to discuss and make enquiries were completely ignored.
Perhaps 24/7 support really does simply mean keeping the servers up and not assisting customers with enquiries. If that is true and my interpretation differs from that of your ordinary customer then I will be wrong with respect to your firm advertising in a misleading and deceptive manner. My having been misled and deceived because I interpreted your web site differently will not make your subsequent conduct on this matter arrogant, obnoxious ... etc. While it will remain a poor standard of service I'll nevertheless owe you an apology and you'll receive it.
Where I live 24/7 support includes but is not limited to providing staff 24 hours, 7 days a week who at least attempt to answer customer enquiries. Any firm advertising 24/7 support that did not provide staff that in the very least attempted to answer customer enquiries would be in breach of our Fair Trading Act (1993) and would would face the prospect of prosecution.

I haven't previously brought up specific events. My comments until now have simply been the expression of honestly held opinions that have resulted from my dealings with hr support. If you want to discuss the events of this past week in this forum you are welcome to do so. But when or if you in fact do perhaps you'll discuss the entire series of events rather than simply gloss over them as you have done.

klisis

12-15-2001, 01:27 AM

Err, the user, tell-me, reminds of Tim-Geer although Tim was more stylish.

Anyone agree with me?

HRBrendan

12-15-2001, 05:28 AM

We do provide 24/7 emergency tech support, its listed right on our hosting plans page. This includes making sure there are no server wide or network wide problems that occur, and that security is maintained throughout the night. There is always at least one person monitoring our servers, ususally more who are very capable of fixing just about any problem that would arise at any point in time during any given day. We, like just about every other host out there, do not have a full staff of people answering general support tickets in the middle of the night, those are generally done between 8am and 10pm.

-Brendan

netsolutions

12-15-2001, 05:33 AM

Man, Chirstmas day must suck in your office ;)

bitserve

12-15-2001, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
We do provide 24/7 emergency tech support, its listed right on our hosting plans page. This includes making sure there are no server wide or network wide problems that occur, and that security is maintained throughout the night. There is always at least one person monitoring our servers, ususally more who are very capable of fixing just about any problem that would arise at any point in time during any given day. We, like just about every other host out there, do not have people answering general support tickets in the middle of the night, those are generally done between 8am and 10pm.

-Brendan

If that's what 24/7 technical support is, then we offer it too! I'll make sure that it gets added to our web site. We, more honestly, say "24 hour monitoring".

You might want to change the part on your site that says "were here to help 24/7", to say "were here to help 24/7, to keep the servers running".

I would expect someone advertising 24/7 tech support to be answering tech support tickets 24/7.

Of course this is just my opinion.

-Mark Adams

Chicken

12-15-2001, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by jfraga
For someone to tell me that they have excellent service after what I've been through is about the same as somebody trying to convince me that it's safe to swim with cinder-blocks tied to my feet. It's totally ludicrous.
Jfragga, consider that it is most probable that HR has 'a few' clients that have been satisfied. To say that you find it inplausable that someone could have possibly had a good experience, seems a bit, 'the world revolves around me' -ish.

People on this forum seem to often have a problem with *****. Does that mean they have 30,000 (or whatever number) unsatisfied customers? No. It means that they do have unsatisified customers, which is probably true of most hosts, even the ones that are praised here.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit *your* problems and views, only point out that there could possibly be another experience. I've never used HR, so I can't rightly comment on them either way.

pagepros

12-15-2001, 12:46 PM

I, myself, have been a member of the HR community...
A little over a year ago I signed with them... eveything that was at the start of this thread was true at that time...
Their support is almost non-existant, when they do reply to an email or TT, they are rude and arrogant...
It seems that most all of the satisfied customers are at their affiliated site "sitepoint".
I did, however, give them a second chance after hearing a lot of positive remarks on them from many people aroung the Net'...
One month ago, I tried again...what a mistake that was...
I was given a 14 day free trial, while trying everything in my power to get my scripts to work, all of which worked on every other server i've used, I couldn't...so, I submitted several Trouble Tickets for support, they say they never received them and that I did something wrong!, I also sent several emails...never received!...
Finally had enough and cancelled... oops...I was ONE day too late!
After trying to cancel for almost a week without response..."I" was too late for the refund!

Well, I did finally get my refund ONLY after stating that my final email will be "CC'd" to the BBB, their States Dept. of Consumer Affairs, and their States Attny. Gen.
I, amazingly received a reply to that one in a few hours offering me a full refund and they were sorry for my bad experience...LOL!!!

They suck and deserve all the negative publicity they get!

Thank You...
Twice bitten...

HRBrendan

12-15-2001, 01:15 PM

Gary,

I hate to be this way but you really dont know what you are talking about and are spitting out 'facts' like you do. We are in no way affiliated with SitePoint, most of our customers have probably never been to the site. We would have to have every regular user on sitepoint as a customer multiple times for this to be true. Our support people are NOT rude and arrogant and I take offense to you saying that they are. I found the only 2 tickets you have sent into us in recent history (at least with the correct domain name associated with them) and pasted them below.

Dialog
Question:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to cancel my account.
I cannot find any info on this anywhere, if there is a link somewhere let me know, or else, please cancel my acount now.
Thanks,
Gary Wansiewicz
www.pagepros.net
user/pass = xxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxx
Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-09-01 EST at 11:42:07, john wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
For authentication we require the first two and last four digits of your credit card number.

John Reyes
HostRocket.com Support

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-09-01 EST at 11:45:27, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is the card ...
\"45-xxxx\"
Thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-09-01 EST at 12:08:28, john wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
Your account has been queued for termination and will be removed in about 20 minutes.

John Reyes
HostRocket.com Support

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-09-01 EST at 13:51:15, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank You!
Gary

AND

Dialog
Question:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,
I just signed up for your corporate account and haven't recieved my confirmation email with my account info.
I think my eMail is down, can you please send it to me at: ubb547@yahoo.com.
I need my user/pass, IP and Name Server info.
IP is for testing of my site while my domain propegates (it is a static ip isn't it?).
Thanks,
Gary

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-11-14 EST at 10:19:10, melissa wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary,

Your welcome letter has been sent to:
gary@pagepros.net

because this is the email registered with the account. Your email address registered with us should be an off network address so you\'ll be able to access it. Please verify with the first 2 and last 4 digits of your credit card number and I will manually send you the information.

Melissa M.
HostRocket.com Support

Please tell me where it is, that you received rude, inadequate, or otherwise unsatisfactory support on any support ticket you sent in. On top of that you were issued a full refund on 2001-11-30 at 5:28:19, a full 4 days after your free trial expired.

-Brendan

SoftWareRevue

12-15-2001, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
. . . . . . . You are acting like a 3rd grade child on a playgound at school and it should be embarassing.

-Brendan :eek: :eek2: :eek:

:rolleyes:

HRBrendan

12-15-2001, 02:11 PM

Ok maybe that wasn't the best way to put it, but I can't even begin to understand the motivation what he's doing. Here's another example of the rude support he is complaining about receiving.

http://www.forums.hostrocket.com/showthread.php?&threadid=6276

-Brendan

Asher S

12-15-2001, 02:12 PM

:emlaugh: LOL, LMAO, thats a real professional attitude.:emlaugh: :emlaugh:

tell-me

12-15-2001, 03:14 PM

That wasn't a very nice thing to say Brendan!

Without commenting on the preceeding posts relating to rude and arrogant support staff I would like to clarify the meaning I ascribed when initially using the words. Others may or may not have received responses from hr support that were rude and/or arrogant in both substance and form. Like the eloquent remark made recently and edited by its author.

I was more accurately referring to the conduct (both acts and omissions)having been rude and arrogant. eg. the closing of tickets without response or acknowledgement and the response to tickets with rhetoric and no attempt to actually answer the questions they contained. No communication I received from hr support when taken in isolation was actually rude by its use of language. The rudeness, arragance ... , arises solely out of the context of the tt.

I would have been quite happy to have received rude answers. Any answers would have been appreciated.

Asher S

12-15-2001, 03:21 PM

I think this is by far the longest thread about hostrocket? :D
Or am i wrong ;)

SoftWareRevue

12-15-2001, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by ^Kyo
I think this is by far the longest thread about hostrocket? :D
Or am i wrong ;) wrong ;)

jfraga

12-15-2001, 07:15 PM

Point taken, Chicken. The way my post was worded probably came off sounding like that. I don't doubt that there are people who have had a good experience with HR. My problem is with people that jump all over someone who says that they've had big problems with HR. I've literally never ever dealt with such an overall terrible experience. If it wasn't one thing, it was another with them.

I just wanted to lend support when it seemed like there was a guy who was taking a beating for saying bad things about Hostrocket, because I've dealt with them first hand and switched hosts just a couple of weeks ago.

I have had not one of the problems that I experienced with Hostrocket with my new host. That's a testament to my new host. It's also in my opinion, a negative reflection on Hostrocket.

Asher S

12-15-2001, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
wrong ;)

aw shoot! ;)

WebUser

12-15-2001, 10:24 PM

I moved out from HR , and I sent a trouble ticket to them , asking my account and my CC removed. However, they didn't (and now still not) , although they said that it was deleted . Now, my CC is still there .

Last month, my CC was revealed (through their bad system) to hackers . Should I change to a new card ? or just let as it is, and sue them if something wrong happens?

SoftWareRevue

12-15-2001, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by WebUser
. . . .Should I change to a new card ? . . . . You mean; you haven't yet??:eek:

WebUser

12-15-2001, 11:15 PM

not yet, because i use that card for other purchases too. If i change, i have to change all .

netsolutions

12-16-2001, 01:19 AM

Tell me, if hostrocket.com is so bad then how do you explain there 9.7% from Host Search by over 250 users?

SoftWareRevue

12-16-2001, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by netsolutions
Tell me, if hostrocket.com is so bad then how do you explain there 9.7% from Host Search by over 250 users? How can they have a rating? :eek:
I thought the reviews section was closed.

netsolutions

12-16-2001, 01:31 AM

I mean before the reviews section was closed that is what they had.

jfraga

12-16-2001, 09:03 PM

That rating isn't scientific, Chris. Anybody could have cast a vote, accurate or not towards that 9.7%. In any case, I don't buy the 9.7% just because of the amount of irritated people in their forums and these.

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by netsolutions
Tell me, if hostrocket.com is so bad then how do you explain there 9.7% from Host Search by over 250 users?

Because Hostrocket was an advertiser, and negative reviews just seemed to never make it sometimes. I know this is fact

bullsquirrel

12-17-2001, 04:06 AM

Not the first time a publisher took care not to step on an advertiser's toes (especially one with lotsa ad dollars!).

Why'd they stop accepting reviews anyway, anyone know??

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 04:32 AM

Yes, they stated it right on their page.

hosts were posting BOGUS reviews

Not that they just woke up to this fact, which is actually kinda funny. This was known all along. Why they chose to do it now is suspicious. Who knows, I cant speak for that company, but I do know Brendan is a vindictive fella.

He will close an account if he merely thinks it will disrupt your site. You are best to protect your identity.

Yes Brendan, I still have the pm's from site point, and yes they are available to back up what I am saying.

Be careful leaving HR, its as bad as staying

bullsquirrel

12-17-2001, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by Samuel Mann

Be careful leaving HR, its as bad as staying :eek: :crap:

Yikes, glad I didn't sign up with them then!!!

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 04:54 AM

I learned the hard way...

:kaioken:

Newbuyer

12-17-2001, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Samuel Mann
Be careful leaving HR, its as bad as staying

So true. For anyone considering them, read about my experiences in this thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24061&perpage=15&pagenumber=4). Stay away from HR!

HRBrendan

12-17-2001, 02:19 PM

Samuel,

For you to say that I would just close a site for no reason other than to "disrupt the site" of one of my customers is absolutly ridiculous. You are flat out lying with the intent of hurting our business, and doing so is not only immoral but illegal and will not be tolerated by ourselves and most likely the owners of this site as well.

-Brendan

craftywolf

12-17-2001, 02:22 PM

So you are going to cry to the moderator because you cannot take the heat. Nothing more expected.

HRBrendan

12-17-2001, 02:37 PM

This is not heat its lying, and im not going to cry to a moderator about it, there are laws against what he is doing.

-Brendan

craftywolf

12-17-2001, 02:47 PM

You know as well as I do that there is good critique and bad critique, and it is all a part of business. Something that is seen through your eyes is seen through someone elses eyes differently.

The best thing to do, is read the thread, absorb the story it tells, and make sure things like these do not happen again. Honestly, bickering back and forth, and trying to defend yourself just opens you up for more bad critique.

Of course, you cannot please everyone, but at least make the attempt to.

I myself did send you a few emails moons ago, and never got an answer. That is my only gripe. As for using your services, well you never gave me the chance, and I went elsewhere. But I did give you 3 chances to reply to my emailings.

Take it for what it is worth.

HRBrendan

12-17-2001, 02:57 PM

We appreciate being critiqued by our customers so that we can improve our services, we constantly run polls with our customers for that very purpose. When you emailed us did you get an autoresponder asking you to use our ticket system for sales inquiries? Just about every address other than my own bbrader@hostrocket.com should generate one of them, as we do all of our correspondance through that ticket system and via phone currently.

-Brendan

craftywolf

12-17-2001, 03:12 PM

I sent an email out for 3 days. Once each day. I didn't get an autoresponer message on either emails, so I moved on. The email sent was on the order of:

"Looking for a new host, and wanted to see how fast your response time was to get back to me".

I figure within 3 to 5 hours to get an answer would be ok, but none ever came.

It was at the beginning of this year.

I never did call though. I am kind of an emaily kinda person. I would rather answer my email than deal with a phone.

I also understand how some customers can be. I used to repair VCRs ect....... and when we had a customer that would bring a VCR in for repair and he had it set on channel 4 rather than the default channel 3, you know you were going to have trouble.

Like I said, my gripe was the email thing not being returned. And I gave it 3 shots. I am glad you are concerned, and it has changed my view.

bullsquirrel

12-17-2001, 03:53 PM

That's exactly what I do when researching a possible vendor...I almost always drop them an email: "How long does it usually take for you to respond to emails?" :D

Usually I get a decent response time, but there are those exceptions to the rule, that consequently get striked off of my list. :)

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 04:29 PM

I have records Brendan, I am not flat out lying. My reputation has been consistent, and organized and is unquestioned, only do you state that I am lying when your reputation is vindictive and childish.

Good luck Brendan, I have the juice to back it up.

I have kept your pm's from sitepoint where you said I didnt know what I was talking about. You sent me the ticket that shows you closed the account before knowing that the site was backed up.

In the same pm you state, "See heres the ticket, I didnt close it unjustily" and yet in the ticket you NEVER!!!!, get it? Never recieved word that the site was backed up.

What I have said here is fact

What you say is assumption.

Does anyone see the difference?

It would take a new thread to chronicalize to show everyone here you are the one playing games, and you are the one lying.

I am not going to make the mistake here, that I made on sitepoint. I am going to contact a moderator and ask the appropriateness of the posting of this information.

You should watch who you call a liar, because I am not only telling the truth, have files to back it up, but YOU are the one lying.

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 04:34 PM

I do not have a site with you anymore, so I do not care that you know that someone is watching your post.

I made a public comment that I can not only back up, but can prove that you are playing games.

You are relying on bad business tactics and I have the information to prove it.

You are not a lawyer, and do not know the true meaning of slander, so lets not go there Brendan, you are preying on people who do not know the difference by your comments.

HRBrendan

12-17-2001, 04:47 PM

I will once again debate with you this situation which took place several months ago between our support staff and another customer of ours (not yourself) and paste the exact ticket here with the exception of blocking out some sensetive information about teh customer. Please PLEASE tell me what we did wrong, and what was so vindictive and childish about it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted: 2001-10-30 07:36:08

Hi Hostrocket Staff.

While I have been with your services for a short time, I have an opportunity to gain a much larger account with different features that your service no longer affords me.

I need these changes to my domain name:

I need the technical contact to be:

fullname : Ingrid xxxxxxxx
address : 39 xxxxxxxxx
city : Brisbane
state : Queensland
zip : 4077
country : AUSTRALIA
phone : xxxxxxxxxxx
email : xxxxxxxxx@primus.com.au
domain : www.xxxx***********

And my administrative contact to me

MBSHost.com
819 West Roseburg
P.M.B. 116
Modesto California
85350
209-522-2228
mbshost@mbshost.com

Also PLEASE CHANGE MY NAME SERVERS TO:

ns1.mbshost.com
ns2.mbshost.com

Thanks! I am still downloading my site from you but it will be done soon, your tar backup did not work so it is taking a while. However once this is done I'd appreciate it if you could close my account with you. Please let me know if changing my domain etc will cost extra. I will let you know when I am done downloading my files.

Ingrid!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 08:08:50, melissa wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Please reply to this ticket with the first 2 and last 4 digits of your credit card for verification.

The credit card info is preferrable but if that is not available, your account's password will do for verification.

Melissa M.
HostRocket.com Support

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 08:26:32, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First two 53
Last four xxxx

Ingrid

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 10:01:50, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Melissa I'd like some kind of confirmation that what I requested from HostRocket is being done. I don't mind waiting for the whole process to take effect but I do mind not knowing it is being done. Please let me know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 13:49:05, brendan wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This account has been closed and the changes made

-Brendan Brader
HostRocket.Com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a lawyer, correct, I run a webhosting company, but the webhosting company definatly does have lawyers.

-Brendan

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 04:54 PM

Now everyone read real close, the customer NEVER said they were finished.

You closed the ticket and the site prematurely

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 05:01 PM

If you read that ticket you will see that the customer had SPECIFIC questions, and your tech responded with Need your credit card info, sure no problem, BUT THEN HER QUESTION WAS NOT ANSWERED.

Then you close the site... You are blind

HRBrendan

12-17-2001, 05:02 PM

The account was closed 7 hours after the initial request when they said they were downloading the site right then, and after 2 more confirmations from Ingrid that she wanted it done, including her sending in an extra response "making sure what she requested was being done"

-Brendan

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 05:09 PM

You have seen in the ticket where she said her site was downloaded?

She specifically stated to me that you closed the site before she was done.

Then you sent this ticket to me in pm at Sitepoint.

And I read it is you not confirming that she was done downloading.

If your tech, or youself would have addressed her questions initially directly you would not have made, nor continue to make the mistake that she was finished with her site download.

Samuel Mann

12-17-2001, 06:29 PM

Now lets take a tally.
In this thread you have demeaned, lied, insulted, and threatened with legal action.

Does anyone really want to host with this type of person? I am sure there are people who will but geeze Brendan you are NOT professional.

Rabbit

12-17-2001, 07:56 PM

I've been with HR for a little while now , had very few problems with there customer service. they have got back to me on TT within a remarkably short time. They have never been rude , most of the time they have went above and beyond to help me.
I want to thank Brendan and his staff for taking the time to help this newbie.

Samuel Mann

12-18-2001, 12:20 AM

It was one and a half months ago, not several.

Originally posted by HRBrendan
I will once again debate with you this situation which took place several months ago between our support staff and another customer of ours (not yourself) and paste the exact ticket here with the exception of blocking out some sensetive information about teh customer. Please PLEASE tell me what we did wrong, and what was so vindictive and childish about it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted: 2001-10-30 07:36:08

Hi Hostrocket Staff.

While I have been with your services for a short time, I have an opportunity to gain a much larger account with different features that your service no longer affords me.

I need these changes to my domain name:

I need the technical contact to be:

fullname : Ingrid xxxxxxxx
address : 39 xxxxxxxxx
city : Brisbane
state : Queensland
zip : 4077
country : AUSTRALIA
phone : xxxxxxxxxxx
email : xxxxxxxxx@primus.com.au
domain : www.xxxx***********

And my administrative contact to me

MBSHost.com
819 West Roseburg
P.M.B. 116
Modesto California
85350
209-522-2228
mbshost@mbshost.com

Also PLEASE CHANGE MY NAME SERVERS TO:

ns1.mbshost.com
ns2.mbshost.com

Thanks! I am still downloading my site from you but it will be done soon, your tar backup did not work so it is taking a while. However once this is done I'd appreciate it if you could close my account with you. Please let me know if changing my domain etc will cost extra. I will let you know when I am done downloading my files.

Ingrid!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 08:08:50, melissa wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Please reply to this ticket with the first 2 and last 4 digits of your credit card for verification.

The credit card info is preferrable but if that is not available, your account's password will do for verification.

Melissa M.
HostRocket.com Support

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 08:26:32, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First two 53
Last four xxxx

Ingrid

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 10:01:50, he/she wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Melissa I'd like some kind of confirmation that what I requested from HostRocket is being done. I don't mind waiting for the whole process to take effect but I do mind not knowing it is being done. Please let me know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2001-10-30 EST at 13:49:05, brendan wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This account has been closed and the changes made

-Brendan Brader
HostRocket.Com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a lawyer, correct, I run a webhosting company, but the webhosting company definatly does have lawyers.

-Brendan

As Brendan has consistently decided to refrain in using his eyes I have embelished the color of the part of the ticket where the customer TOLD YOU that she would tell you when she was done. You closed the account cutting her off in mid download, I was there. Her site was 50 plus megs and she was on dialup.

So now you have posted this ticket for people to see, and you still insist that you got confirmation?

When a user leaves they need YOU to change their dns settings because that is kept from their control on the onset. Since this is they ask you to make changes to their domain. Her query was in finding out if you were indeed making the changes, then she would let you know when she was done downloading.

You never got that confirmation, and still you insist I dont know what I am talking about, call me a liar, threaten lawyers on me, and act like a general thug.

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 12:25 AM

Not sticking up for Host Rocket, but it just seems like mis-communication between the both parties.

One party says they will send confirmation and the other party thought the confirmation was sent when the credit card number was sent.

Both are at fault.

My 2 cents

HRBrendan

12-18-2001, 12:26 AM

OK, saying that this was somewhat our fault... do you honestly believe that we would have done it with the intention of screwing up someones site? We have 10k+ customers, people come and go every day it is normal around here as it is every host.

-Brendan

Samuel Mann

12-18-2001, 12:48 AM

You motivations are your own, if you choose to do that there is nothing that I can do to stop you so the question is sort of out there. Are you saying that you couldn’t do it? Sure you could.

I was a customer of yours, I ran into the slant you put on your forums, removing negative posts, keeping glowing posts.

Ok sure, they are tactics, and sure they might be immoral, but closing an account without gaining the confirmation the customer asked you for can only be vindictive on the outside.

The mere fact that you have argued with me TWICE! And this lends to an even greater suspicion.

I have experienced this, I am speaking from not only an ex customers perspective, but others as well.

When I see one of your current customers so incensed that they would post publicly (Which is all too common now days) it shows that there is not proper attention to this customer.

(Yes Hostrocket is the poster child for bad hosts) Is it true? Statistically people say, oh yes all hosts have some bad customers. MAnd your ex customers go out of their way! to make people know about it.

They in the same breath know they paid very little for the service, yet still go out of their way to make sure people know about what is going on.

Is Hostrocket a target? Not sure, I am not targeting you, just wanted you to open your eyes to the ticket that you so vehemently denied responsibility for until now.

You almost admited responsibility. Not good enough, the customer is full of questions, giving their credit card info is for verification that they are who they present themselves as being. It doesn't confirm that they are done downloading their site (craftywolf)

Chicken

12-18-2001, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by Samuel Mann
Ok sure, they are tactics, and sure they might be immoral...
First, removing negative posts from a company run message board is hardly immoral. Why people would assume that this type of forum is the place to get reviews and info on the good and bad is beyond me. Support forums aren't review forums and the fact they leave good comments and remove bad reviews and comments is somewhat expected (when the forum is hosted on the host's site).
but closing an account without gaining the confirmation the customer asked you for can only be vindictive on the outside.
Or it co8uld have been a simple accident. I don't know either way, but you seem to be assuming it is some vindictive plan against this person, and I'm not sure what indicates that. The support tickets don't.

Samuel Mann

12-18-2001, 02:30 AM

Chicken, I agree with you, but the point was the slant that they put on their forums which they/he uses as marketing within his site. No problem really that he is doing that but he not only squelched me but MANy others that did not have a review, but could not gain support otherwise than through their support forums.

This has been going on for SEVERAL months and I am a witness to that.

Ok given he made a mistake, that mistake cost that user most of her site.

Soon after I signed up with them one of their servers went toast.

Everyone on that server that bothered to post in the forum (Many) lost their databases, and sites.

I actually watched the support personel argue with their customers what a back up is, which went on for a long time saying that a backup isnt really a backup, this raged on the forum.

This is a series of complaints by MANY users that have culminated in a series of posts from many different users, to many different forums. This shows that it is not the case of "Every host has some unhappy customers" It is very likely that Hostrocket is either a magnet for unhappy users (Look at their pricing, they are shooting for a low cost demographic) which might just bring in the worst, or the best who knows, not judging their customers, he does that enough for me.

But overall I agree with you Chicken, that it can be looked both ways, thing is this has been going on for SEVERAL months, if not longer. I personally had reviews removed from Hostsearch that were professional and polite because they showed the true picture of my experience with HR. the varied I am so in love with this host cause I am a newbie was left in abundance.

The International community is falling prey to bad service by Hostrocket, yes all hosts do this, if by mistake or in disingenuous service but it still begs a question, why did he continue to argue that I was wrong (And saying Ingrid was wrong) over and over again when it actually shows that he made a mistake. It does show that, he just wont admit it.

Not till he posted it publicly did it become apparent to him that "OK, saying that this was somewhat our fault..." is what YOU will receive in calling them to the carpet.

This is a consistent attitude by Brendan, which shows contempt for his customers, and future customers. The briefness of posts and opinions on the Internet is his marketing lifeblood. Anyone going outside that briefness is torn apart.

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 02:44 AM

Tech support said, to close the account, they need credit card verification. What did tech support get? Creditcard Verification. Possibly support had taken that as she was done downloading the site, because she said she almost was.

And that is probably what happened. As for did he do it on purpose? Gathered by all the info, no. He had nothing personal against you, and nothing indicates it. Did he know you? No. So, it had to be mis-communication. But Host Rocket is only 50% to blame for the communication problem.

They did not return my email. Ok. But no harm was done, and it could have been some network glitch that caused it. Longshot, but still possible. If I needed a host, I would still give them a try.

Does he need to argue with you? No, I got into the same pissing match with someone, only after being stalked for months on end, and I figured enough was enough. But, he does have a right to defend himself.................some people choose to, some do not.

In all, BIG DEAL. Remember the situation, dont let it happen again. Thats about all you can do.

Ruling:

You 50% negligent
Host Rocket 50% negligent.

- CRAFTY WOLF

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 03:04 AM

I'd like to add that you also cannot blame one individual for hardware or software problems. Things happen. And when you are dealing with electronics, you never know when they are going to crap out. Same way with software, it glitches. Blame the software developer for that, not the user.

I had a host have some problems, and they gave a free month of webhosting. I refused the free month, because I understand **** that can happen. Christ, the site was only down for a few hours and it was a router problem which, again, fits into the electronics catagory.

I see people complain time is money when a host has a bit of down time. Its funny, that same customer sells nothing and has no customers. And he is the biggest mouth on the server.

Its Christmas time. Come the 25th, why doesn't everyone forget what has happened to them before that and completely start fresh? Because you cannot. You are human.

I am an avid animal lover, and dealing with people, I have come to the conclusion that animals are a better form of life to deal with. They sure are smarter. And some even smell better. I can honestly say, If I were to go into a burning building and seen a dog or a person, I would save the dog first, and try for the person next. The dog would be my first priority, and if I had to, I would sit in jail for that decision and be happy about it.

I will exclude myself from this thread. I think it got its deserved attention.

- Chow

SoftWareRevue

12-18-2001, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by craftywolf
. . . . . I will exclude myself from this thread. . . . .Thank you. :rolleyes:

bullsquirrel

12-18-2001, 04:24 AM

Chicken--I would have to argue that the HR forums are not just simply support forums...if they were, wouldn't they be strictly off-limits to the general public? I just went on there and noticed several areas for "general chat" and other non-support related areas. And as a non-customer, I was also able to view just about every forum freely. That speaks to me as a "sales forum" as much as support.

Do you think potential customers do not dig through a company's message boards for reviews from current customers and support turnarounds? When I was researching HR a few months ago, I noticed a rather large number of complaints about slow or no response from HR support...I came back there a couple days later and those posts were gone! They were not unruly or rude (no swearing), but were simply complaining about HR.

A certain degree of weeding is expected, but clipping out general and repeated complaints--unethical or not--seems very suspicious to me! Such policies or tactics reek of corporate fascism. :mad:

I am thankful I continued my search and found a lot of "neutral" third-party opinions on various forums before making a decision. I am very pleased with my choice of host, and find myself doubting that I would feel the same had the choice been different (especially after seeing these comments).

bullsquirrel

12-18-2001, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by craftywolf
I see people complain time is money when a host has a bit of down time. Its funny, that same customer sells nothing and has no customers. And he is the biggest mouth on the server.

That is an extremely broad stereotype. I have a number of clients who have been doing quite well for themselves with their webshop, and server outages WOULD effect their sales, especially if those outages were during their peak selling hours.

Originally posted by craftywolf
Its Christmas time. Come the 25th, why doesn't everyone forget what has happened to them before that and completely start fresh? Because you cannot. You are human.

Your feelings of goodwill and love toward your fellow man is commendable, but we are not talking about a touchy-feely family feud here; this is strictly business, and it is imperative that opinions and viewpoints are expressed to ensure other business owners do not make mistakes that could have easily been avoided.

I myself am grateful for threads such as this one; it tells a lot about both sides of the issue, and adds important fuel to the decision-making process. It should not be underestimated.

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 04:53 AM

Sorry I have to reneg on my exit thread, but, I read a lot of hosting boards, and I see a lot of people complain when their website is full of nothing. I understand there are legitimate gripes of downtime and losing money, but when they are not selling anything or making a profit of some kind, they complain and use the saying" time is money".

You know what I see a lot? A lot of companies take slack for someone not being able to reach their website because of network problems elsewhere along the trail or because the customers website did not resolve, when the customer made the changes at the registrar themselves and messed them up.

I had a doctor have problems with a website. He said everytime he ordered hosting he could not get the website to work. He went thru 4 hosting companies. he had his site made. He did nothing but bash the hell out of the companies because they could not give him service. Even though he got the email with instructions, he never changed the nameservers to point to the right company. Even though he is all fixed up, he still blames the hosting companies rather than himself. This is supposed to be an educated man. Crap like this is what pisses me off.

There are 4 hosting companies that will take slack for his lack of education on this particular subject. For no reason at all.

Samuel Mann

12-18-2001, 05:06 AM

Craftwolf your hypothetical conversation with yourself is amusing, but generalizing in a specific thread about specific people looks like trite.

Rock On

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 05:09 AM

You know, you just proved my Human/Animal theory.

BARK ON.

Samuel Mann

12-18-2001, 05:13 AM

Sorry I had to be the one to prove your animal/vegetable theory

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 05:15 AM

Now who is babling to themselves...............LOL

- See Ya

bullsquirrel

12-18-2001, 07:24 AM

ROFL...****, now are we having us a sociology discussion, or what??! :rolleyes:

There will always be individuals such as you describe, but that certainly is NOT the norm in any way.

You criticize us pathetic humans about our capability of MEMORY. I am embarassed and apologetic that I cannot live up to your evolved status as I tend to remember how I have been treated by vendors in the past. Sorry I cannot live up to your expectations, Demigod Wolf! I will try to do a better job at not remembering this conversation...

:eek3:

bullsquirrel

12-18-2001, 07:25 AM

What the hell, "****" is filtered out??! :eek2: Guess I must have a potty mouth! :p

Guess I'll have to start saying "crap" or "poo"....or are those filtered as well? :rolleyes:

sbrad

12-18-2001, 10:25 AM

Well, if nothing else, I think we've all learned some valuable lessons here.
1) Don't request the cancellation of your account before you are ready for it to be cancelled. I think that's a no-brainer.
2) Keep a backup of your site locally. I'm pretty sure HR's control panel gives you the ability to download a backup of your site.

HRBrendan

12-18-2001, 10:57 AM

We dont use our boards for marketing by filtering out everything bad doesnt know what theyre talking about again... First off the boards are filtered based upon guidelines that are posted allover the forums themselves, its no secret. Second, there arent any links to our forums on our site anyways, people aren't told about them until they become a customer. There is no reason to leave up a thread about a specific problem a person is having when it has already been solved or is being solved through a trouble ticket.

-Brendan

kmh

12-18-2001, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
Second, there arent any links to our forums on our site anyways, people aren't told about them until they become a customer.
-Brendan

Go to: http://hostrocket.com/support/community.htm

At the end of the main paragraph of content reads: "Please feel free to visit http://forums.hostrocket.com and join our forums today."

SoftWareRevue

12-18-2001, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by craftywolf
Sorry I have to reneg on my exit thread . . . . . . . Not surprizing. :rolleyes:

You'd rather be with dogs; but something attracts you here.
I, personally, would like it if you never posted again.

But, as you like to instigate others and humiliate yourself, I know that we must bear witness to your childish comments.

My apologies to HostRocket and others for speaking off-topic.

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 02:09 PM

What common problems occur when setting up a website with Host Rocket?????

craftywolf

12-18-2001, 02:11 PM

Your tag should read: STILL AN IDIOT

SoftWareRevue

12-18-2001, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by craftywolf
Your tag should read: STILL AN IDIOT :rolleyes:

Please start a different thread if you wish to exchange insults.

Maybe we should start a rasslin insult thread and invite johnnyshear. :rolleyes:

bullsquirrel

12-18-2001, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
Second, there arent any links to our forums on our site anyways, people aren't told about them until they become a customer. ummm, I've never been a customer, but it was really quite easy to find the forums just by clicking the support link on your site.

Are you unaware of your own site's layout??! :eek:

As to your "filtering guidelines"...apparently they include the removal of any negative post aimed at HR's support turnaround? Because those are the ones I noticed were removed...I'm not talking about spam, I'm talking about actual customers complaining about support being unresponsive! And I do very much give you the benefit of the doubt, except that it becomes increasingly difficult to do so when your replies to your customers (alas, to anyone who has anything less-than-flattering to say about your company) contain more than a slight hint of egotism.

But I will leave well enough alone for now, since I am strictly a neutral (well, once neutral) third party and have never actually signed up with HR and so cannot comment directly on experiences with them. I comment as an observer and onetime potential customer of HR and that is all.

This should make that hungry and mislead wolf-boy most happy during this yuletime season. :rolleyes:

gordita

12-18-2001, 04:01 PM

arg... it's always a bummer to hear about things like this

Samuel Mann

12-19-2001, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
We dont use our boards for marketing by filtering out everything bad doesnt know what theyre talking about again... this is so much BS, I have seen it for myself countless times....First off the boards are filtered based upon guidelines that are posted allover the forums themselves, its no secret. Second, there arent any links to our forums on our site anyways, people aren't told about them until they become a customer. yea right... There is no reason to leave up a thread about a specific problem a person is having when it has already been solved or is being solved through a trouble ticket.

-Brendan

Who are you kidding?

Yes you do, or you would not have it in public. The very fact that it is there is testament to the decision of having it in public for marketing, so you are stating the ridiculous, but I digress.

You SLANT THE BOARDS, who cares, you denying it is what is foul.

Your little slant that we have no links, you have had links to your message board for as long as I have known about your service, and still do, or did you correct that little minor mistake.

As you decide what you will respond to, and decide what you wont respond to remember people are keeping track that you pick your comments not only very unwisely but incorrect to a great extent.

Most likely you will do what you do in all threads you post in and selectively argue points badly. You wont address the issues directly and only fall on a well-rehearsed mantra of, all hosts have these problems, and we have x amount of users, and we spend x amount of dollars. Point is none of it is working when you piss off a LARGE percentage of your users.

Giving bad service is pissing off your users. Not addressing their problems and complaints honestly is pissing off your users.

As I posted on your forum when I cancelled my service I stated "you will consistently gain negative views when you do not openly and honestly talk to your customers" these little dances you do only demean your customers as you openly do in public.

You have not fully addressed the ticket that you have posted, only mentioning that you might be wrong in that case.

That is so arrogant of a response... but again its expected by you.

I believe it is a serious issue that you continue to do damage control from less than admirable service that is mentioned A LOT in public forums, and has been for months.

When I was a customer of yours I was polite, conscientious, and courteous. That is more than you deserved then, and it’s more than you deserve now.

I sincerely wanted your company to be better than a lower rung bargain host, and helped people on your boards the best I could. You repaid me with bad uptime, slow ftp, and robotic techs.

Consistency is what your service is struggling against, and consistency is what people with web sites need. I hope some day for your benefit and the benefit of your users that you find that consistency. Several months later it does NOT seem to be the case.

netsolutions

12-19-2001, 04:10 AM

Samuel Mann, this is obviously an issue that you and Brendan have to work out between the two of you. I suggest using email and/or instant messaging and that will save the anger and illogical accusations that either side has made or may make. Just a suggestion.

Samuel Mann

12-19-2001, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by netsolutions
Samuel Mann, this is obviously an issue that you and Brendan have to work out between the two of you. I suggest using email and/or instant messaging and that will save the anger and illogical accusations that either side has made or may make. Just a suggestion.

The anger? I have no anger about this netsolutions, thanks anyway really.

These are specific problems that affect, as Brendan states "10k+ users" possibly.

Please don't anyone take that I am trying to say 10k+ users are currently under this sort of problem.

The ticket posted by him, and my comments to him ARE AN EXAMPLE. It is NOT the only issue. It is some information to show that it is warranted that this host be discussed on (Webhostingtalk) that he chooses to talk her is just icing on the cake of the idea of this successful website.

I doubt the bulk of the viewers of this thread want the conversation to go private now. While there will be some that will want it to be, I wish it not to be, as insignificant as my desires actually are compared to the seriousness of this web site. I respect this site (WHT) in allowing an open conversation between different parties if handled in a professional and accurate way. In no way did I say someone was a jerk, or otherwise. Brendan is the only one to actually be noted as doing such (Even though he edited his post)

I have gained a huge amount of respect for this web site because of this thread specifically since other sites have not the vision to see the depth at which a hosting relationship with a customer can actually reach.

Thank you Netsolutions for your suggestions, but no anger will come from me.

tell-me

12-19-2001, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by Samuel Mann

Giving bad service is pissing off your users. Not addressing their problems and complaints honestly is pissing off your users.
...
Consistency is what your service is struggling against, ...

Judging by the similarity and sheer volume of complaints among the many threads in this forum I can't see how consistency can be something they're struggling with. They've been remarkably consistent.

Kind of sad!

bullsquirrel

12-19-2001, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by tell-me

Judging by the similarity and sheer volume of complaints among the many threads in this forum I can't see how consistency can be something they're struggling with. They've been remarkably consistent.

Kind of sad! :D

It's so sad it's funny!

HRBrendan

12-19-2001, 10:36 AM

Can you please give me a count of the sheer volume of people (and im talking actual seperate people, not the same person posting over and over and over and over and over like yourself) who was actually a customer of ours and thought our hosting to be half as bad as you describe. Im sure you can come up with at least 100 people right off right... I mean that would give us a less than 1% disapproval rating right there. With the sheer volume of people you speak of that come out in droves to say how horrible we are, you must be able to muster up at least a list of 1% of our customers who are unhappy with our service, since you seem to be so knowledgeable.

What? you cant do that? Why? Because you have no idea who 99.9995% of our customers are? The maybe (and its a BIG MAYBE) you have no idea what youre talking when you are talking about the actual reliability of our hosting or thoroughness of our support on a grand scale of things as you pretend to?

I'll tell you right now that its probably closer to 2-3% of our customers who would give us a bad rating but you dont know that, I do. We conduct anonymous polls to random samplings of our customers quite often to find this stuff out, and ask them what they would like to see improved then work on it.

Just a shot in the dark, but I think the tiny fraction of our customers/ex-customers who were unhappy, some rightfully so (maybe yourself included) as we have made many mistakes since we started out as a company, are not an accurate sampling of our customer base.

-Brendan

Samuel Mann

12-19-2001, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
Can you please give me a count of the sheer volume of people (and im talking actual seperate people, not the same person posting over and over and over and over and over like yourself) who was actually a customer of ours and thought our hosting to be half as bad as you describe. Im sure you can come up with at least 100 people right off right... I mean that would give us a less than 1% disapproval rating right there. With the sheer volume of people you speak of that come out in droves to say how horrible we are, you must be able to muster up at least a list of 1% of our customers who are unhappy with our service, since you seem to be so knowledgeable.

What? you cant do that? Why? Because you have no idea who 99.9995% of our customers are? The maybe (and its a BIG MAYBE) you have no idea what youre talking when you are talking about the actual reliability of our hosting or thoroughness of our support on a grand scale of things as you pretend to?

I'll tell you right now that its probably closer to 2-3% of our customers who would give us a bad rating but you dont know that, I do. We conduct anonymous polls to random samplings of our customers quite often to find this stuff out, and ask them what they would like to see improved then work on it.

Just a shot in the dark, but I think the tiny fraction of our customers/ex-customers who were unhappy, some rightfully so (maybe yourself included) as we have made many mistakes since we started out as a company, are not an accurate sampling of our customer base.

-Brendan

I read this with absolute sincerity of your response, yet of course the NEW line by the company, you dont know what you are talking about.

Well no crud fella when you keep most of you users in the dark by your very business practices, and dont like it when your actual business practices back fire on you.

You have said a lot boasting why YOU know so much more... post some actual stats (POST SOME ACTUAL STATS)

Saying :You don't know what you are talking about because you have done x amount of things is what you are saying.

Ok, where are they? Normally when someone brings up statistical information they actually post something credible. Those who post stat information referring to stats and saying "They lead this way or the other" cannot be trusted.

Its your word against your customers word.

You see that its the same person overand over again, yet I can go to just about any host forum and read the same stuff from user after user.

Belive this Brendan, I am one person.

I do not post on this web site with multiple usernames.

I am not trying to slant anyone, andalthough there might be suspicion on both sides I take specific issue WITH YOU personally due to your rudeness and refrain from answering direect questions when you ARE CLEARLY wrong.

You answer when something ticks you off, which makes you (And I am not throwing insults) a hot head in the general OVERALL scheme of threads on this forum.

[echo[consistency consistencyyyy consistencyyyyyyy[/echo]

Samuel Mann

12-19-2001, 11:11 AM

That is actually a tempting idea there Brendan.

Keeping a tally of individual users that are pissed off at hostrocket.

I have a spare 36 gig, and if need be I can bring another online.

I will be at the top of the list, and I am sure I will have no problem busting 100 users angry about your service in ONE day.

Now that would imply that I would want to do that in ONE day but if you were to give me incentive. Lets say a dedicated server personally delivered to me if I do actually hit 100 VERIFIED users in one day that are pissed at you.

I bet if I was to offer those pissed off users free web hosting on that dedicated server I would not only get 100 VERIFIED (Yes I said verified) but people would offer to beef up the server you lost in a bet.

Just a thought really, there is no substance in your posts as your track record is FRAUGHT with inaccuracies and generalizations about this or that.

I know for a fact that the service that you company gave to ME was on par with what I read EVERYWHERE I go, including your own support forums, I spent a lot of time there, and see the posts come, and then deleted.... saw it regularly.

I doubt I would have to leave this site to even gain the first 100 hundred unhappy verified users.

Yours,

Samuel Mann

12-19-2001, 11:21 AM

HRBrendan
Junior Guru Wannabe
Registered: Sep 2001
Posts: 59

Subject: read this

Please forward valid and current mailing address information to either:

HostRocket.Com, Inc
Suite 203
21 Corporate Drive
Clifton Park, NY
12065

or

Cutler, Trainor, & Cutler LLP
2 Hemphill Place
Suite 153
Parade Ground Village
Malta, NY
12020

If you do not, we will use the info we have on file for you and assume it is valid and current and be in further correspondance with you through registered mail.
__________________
Tech Support
Http://HostRocket.Com
The Future of Managed Hosting

bullsquirrel

12-19-2001, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Samuel Mann
I know for a fact that the service that you company gave to ME was on par with what I read EVERYWHERE I go, including your own support forums, I spent a lot of time there, and see the posts come, and then deleted.... saw it regularly. I'll wager a dedicated that the public-access support forums become members-only!! :D

Samuel Mann

12-19-2001, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
Samuel,

For you to say that I would just close a site for no reason other than to "disrupt the site" of one of my customers is absolutly ridiculous. You are flat out lying with the intent of hurting our business, and doing so is not only immoral but illegal and will not be tolerated by ourselves and most likely the owners of this site as well.

-Brendan

While being a customer of yours I tried to have a very sincere conversation with you and was ignored.

Hostrocket as a service more than likely satisfies the great many users you have. This is evident by the many people I have come across that have stated that they indeed love Hostrocket.

I am talking to you, and while you have decided to refuse to respond to any e-mail sent to you it’s obvious that you do not want to be contacted.

I have sent you pm's on your support forums. Have attepted to talk to you openly on your forums and every contact was ignored. I was a happy Hostrocket user until my site started to burp, and then just outright died.

While support does not have to be nice, nor do they have to address issues, you stating that your support is above what it actually is IMHO and to me is a lie.

Hostrocket as a company no doubt has the very best intentions in growing the "right way" and indeed I believe that they will continue too do what they need.

What many people are saying to you "as customers" is that we want your services to work, and when they don't we want someone to tell us why.

I lost money and reputation hosting a site with the company you work for. I was damaged but I will overcome by moving on but when I see YOU state what I believe to be a slant I will state so.

If I believe that you will close a site because you wanted to hurt someone this is my opinion based on facts I have witnessed myself.

It is an absolute fact that the site was not downloaded, and it was an absolute fact that I have been contacted by you OUTSIDE of your support forums after I was a customer and also being a fact it was a rude contact at that I have ample reason that You (Not Hostrocket) could stoop to that extent.

M James, and several others with very popular sites have had problems with the company’s services, but even I know they are still happy.

My position (And make no mistake) is in an aspect that is directed at YOU

If you would have given an option (THAT ACTUALLY WORKED) to contact you directly this matter more than likely would have been solved... but I somewhat doubt it.

And why do you offer support on a public forum such as WHT, and did not represent yourself as openly on your own support forums? I was (WAS) a happy customer even when things went bad for my site (Which took no traffic hardly, and ran no scripts at ALL) but you ignored and ignored a positive customer willing to grow with you.

Consistency will help you in the future, rudeness and redicluous statements privately will not. (Sitepoint forums contains some rather rude comments by you in PM to me) by YOU

DOBrien

12-19-2001, 08:46 PM

Host Rocket Asked, "Can you please give me a count of the sheer volume of people (and im talking actual seperate people, not the same person posting over and over and over and over and over like yourself) who was actually a customer of ours and thought our hosting to be half as bad as you describe. "

You deliver a product to folks all over the country. They do not know each other or of each other. The one place they could easily meet is in your forums but when folks who do not like Hostrocket start to discuss their troubles there, you delete their posts. Therefore, there is no reasonable way for folks to develop the statistics you request. It is an artful dodge on your part that avoid issues that are presented and attempts to put the onus on those who are complaining to substantiate their experience quantitatively, which they cannot do as they’ll never have access to that data. This ploy falls in with the “conspiracy” theory that was presented by Hostrcoekt maybe a month ago here.

So what can be used to measure the possible validity of these disgruntled customer’s statements presented here? If the problems at Hostrocket were purely random and rare, then the similarities between issues people presented here, over time would be just as random and rare. They all be singular and different as random system, support and communication issues occurred. No continuing theme would exist. But, this is not the case. Support communication issues, trouble tickets without reply, down time, rude and terse support, deleted posts in Hostrocket Forums and more are all common in the threads one find on this forum and others.

My own experience, well documented on this forum and others support nearly every negative claim that is made about Hostrocket, and I therefore believe most.

Enjoy!

Dennis

HRBrendan

12-19-2001, 11:47 PM

Dennis,

The fact that noone here knows enough of our customers but us to have any idea whether or not the great majority of them were happy or not, is exactly the point I was getting at.

If I were to ask you if ***** was bad, you would probably say yes. Im not saying theyre good, but you probably have never used them, and probably couldnt name 5 people who have. Im sure you could probably find 100 instances on this forum about them being bad, but that is still a bad sampling of a company with 100,000+ domains hosted. Anyone who disagrees with that hasnt taken a statistics class, and there is no way to justify having a biased sample and trying to make an accurate assessment about anything, it just doesnt work.

Im not saying were perfect, Im not saying were close to perfect. Im saying that if and when we do make mistakes, they are heard about 20x as much as anything we ever did correct. This stands true for every larger company. I'm not trying to justify bad service in any way shape or form, only shed light on the fact that despite what a few people may think based on their experience with us, we are not a bad host.

-Brendan

MSW

12-19-2001, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by HRBrendan
Im not saying were perfect, Im not saying were close to perfect. Im saying that if and when we do make mistakes, they are heard about 20x as much as anything we ever did correct. This stands true for every larger company. I'm not trying to justify bad service in any way shape or form, only shed light on the fact that despite what a few people may think based on their experience with us, we are not a bad host.

You are absolutely, 100% correct. Bad service for one person could very well be good service for another. You cannot please everyone 100% of the time. The best you can do is try.

Only in the very rare instance do you hear publicly the good things that are done. The out of the way, beyond the call, etc. etc. things that customers like. I mean, after all, isn't that what is supposed to be done? But, get one person irked about something and they can make it seem like you do this to everyone! Take that 1 out of 100 that is unhappy about one thing or another, multiply that by the amount of customers you have, and it seems like everyone is upset with your customer service, when in fact it is merely a VERY SMALL percentage. These people can, will and will try to harm you in every way possible because they have not had the customer service that they expected. This happens, and for it, I am sorry for any individual that has been wronged by any customer support personnel.

ALL companies have problems. Some more than others. But you need to remember that you hear bad stories all the time. Rarely is a good one heard. But then again, it shouldn't be necessary.

netsolutions

12-20-2001, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by WeinBar

You are absolutely, 100% correct. Bad service for one person could very well be good service for another. You cannot please everyone 100% of the time. The best you can do is try.

Only in the very rare instance do you hear publicly the good things that are done. The out of the way, beyond the call, etc. etc. things that customers like. I mean, after all, isn't that what is supposed to be done? But, get one person irked about something and they can make it seem like you do this to everyone! Take that 1 out of 100 that is unhappy about one thing or another, multiply that by the amount of customers you have, and it seems like everyone is upset with your customer service, when in fact it is merely a VERY SMALL percentage. These people can, will and will try to harm you in every way possible because they have not had the customer service that they expected. This happens, and for it, I am sorry for any individual that has been wronged by any customer support personnel.

ALL companies have problems. Some more than others. But you need to remember that you hear bad stories all the time. Rarely is a good one heard. But then again, it shouldn't be necessary.
Well said

imago-allan

12-20-2001, 11:50 AM

Hi!

Just got in with this very long discussion. Believe me I read almost all. :)

Take note that we are not a web hosting company. Here are my comments:

1. 24/7 support for us means there is an available person who is able to answer our query at anytime of the day. At least this is what we understood it to be. If this is nonexistent with HostRocket, then I believe that they need to change that to something which might not mislead customers. Say, "24 hour server monitoring" as suggested by somebody here. Post on your site what time your tech/sales support are available to answer queries.

2. I am an owner of several sites and I transferred from one host to another until I am satisfied. That is usually normal. Before attempting to transfer I make sure I have fully backed the site up. Then I simply request to close it. Well, it is just a surprise to hear that you will need to request the tech support to close your account. My previous experience is not the same. Usually the host has a feature where I as the customer has the option to close my account. The system ask me, "Are you sure?" And when I answer yes, then the account is immediately closed. Well, it may be a little different with other host. What is the moral of the story? Don't ask for account closure unless you have fully backed up your site or maintained a back up of your site on your hard disk. Here is my suggestion to a web host: When you close the account, please retain the files for at least a week. Your old customer may come back because the files were not backed up successfully by them. You may charge an extra for them to be able to retrieve the backups. It is up to you. After a week, go ahead, eat your heart out and delete the files! But, make sure you explicitly state this on your TOS.

3. Misunderstandings do occur. Therefore, before making a crucial action such as closing a customer account, the web host must explicitly ask the customer to verify if the customer is really sure that what he/she wants is to close the account.

For unsatisfied customers of HostRocket, you have a valid point to complain. If there are a significant number of you out there, then HostRocket must think deeply. Fight if you have reasons to fight.

For satisfied customers of HostRocket, just make sure you back up your site often. If you are satisfied with their service, by all means remain.

For HostRocket, I suggest you sit down altogether with your staff and review your operations. Make the policy clear cut among yourselves.

For tell-me, I salute you for coming out in the open. Again the room for presenting solid proof is still vacant. Do fill that in. Ok?

For the rest, keep your cool. Stay focused on the issue presented. If possible, we refrain from unnecessary "derogatory" remark. Be assertive and not too aggressive.

Thank you for the time. Have a blessed holiday!

:)

Samuel Mann

12-20-2001, 12:15 PM

HRBrendan
WeinBar
netsolutions
consul

From each of your signatures I take it you actively run a web hosting company or are a part thereof.

All 4 of you are undeniably wrong.

Why? Because you mention that the customer is wrong in subtle, and not so subtle ways.

The customer is ALWAYS right

The sooner you learn that, the sooner your sales will increase, and the view of your companies in public will rise.

MSW

12-20-2001, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Samuel Mann

From each of your signatures I take it you actively run a web hosting company or are a part thereof.

All 4 of you are undeniably wrong.

Why? Because you mention that the customer is wrong in subtle, and not so subtle ways.

The customer is ALWAYS right

The sooner you learn that, the sooner your sales will increase, and the view of your companies in public will rise.

Really? OK, let me ask you a few questions. First, what part of my post ever mentions that the customer is wrong? Point it out and I will apologize.

Is the customer always right if they spam or post illegal content on their site? Do you know anything about my company, the number of subscribers I have or the financials? Do you know if I need my sales to increase? Am I asking for your opinion? Can you say troll?

Samuel Mann

12-20-2001, 12:32 PM

Really? OK, let me ask you a few question. Is the customer always right if they spam or post illegal content on their site? Do you know anything about my company, the number of subscribers I have or the financials? Do you know if I need my sales to increase? Am I asking for your opinion? Can you say troll?

A customer spamming is no longer a customer, they are a spammer. (Duh number 1)

Illegal Content does not make them a customer, it makes them a criminal. (Duh number 2)

Do I know anything about your company? (Yes I do, I know I would not patronize your company because you mixed the word customer with illegal content and spamming. I am a customer, not a spammer, nor a user of illegal content or goods. That you lump me in with them makes you a host that I would not want to be hosted by.

Do I know if you need your sales to increase? (Duh number 3)

Are you asking for my opnion? (Duh number 4) You are posting on a public forum, duh duh duh.

Can I say troll? (Can you say rude offensive webhosting guy without enough smarts to know when to shut up?)

imago-allan

12-20-2001, 12:33 PM

Samuel Mann,

We are a web design company not a web hosting company. We are not part of HostRocket either.

Your comment is rather shocking (at least on my end). What I have just posted are mere suggestions basing from my experience. If you take it as a defense for HostRocket, you get me wrong. And believe me, I firmly believe in the saying that the customer is always right. Read some of my posts in other threads if you will and I invite you to.

Do I get a response or an apology perhaps?

:)

MSW

12-20-2001, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Samuel Mann

A customer spamming is no longer a customer, they are a spammer. (Duh number 1)

Illegal Content does not make them a customer, it makes them a criminal. (Duh number 2)

Do I know anything about your company? (Yes I do, I know I would not patronize your company because you mixed the word customer with illegal content and spamming. I am a customer, not a spammer, nor a user of illegal content or goods. That you lump me in with them makes you a host that I would not want to be hosted by.

Do I know if you need your sales to increase? (Duh number 3)

Are you asking for my opnion? (Duh number 4) You are posting on a public forum, duh duh duh.

Can I say troll? (Can you say rude offensive webhosting guy without enough smarts to know when to shut up?)

Hehe - OK, you are right. How could I have been so stupid?

Samuel Mann

12-20-2001, 12:45 PM

Response yes, apology no.

Do you find it offensive that I said the customer is always right? Or that I simple said you were wrong?

Getting the most unlikely out of the way

If you disagree that the customer is not always right then you are still wrong.

Ok that out of the way, if you find it offensive that I simply said you were wrong, then you are wrong again.

If a service is marketed with a backup, this leads people to believe a bit of responsibility on the host parts to protect their data. While this has been talked about surely in many places, it still gives the unsuspecting user the wrong idea.

When a person thinks of a back up they think in relative terms. They do not understand that the servers load fluctuates and large backups (Especially with front page extensions installed) will be truncated and shredded) Blame dark orb, blame other customers but the entire area of your post is wrong in the case of Hostrocket from not only what I read before I became a customer, but while using their systems for a site. The back up never worked, and when it did it download shredded files, missing files etc

For all of these views, I hold to my statement, you should be offering the hosting companies some advicce in changing their back up relationship between their backups, and what they actually mean once the customer finds out what it means.

imago-allan

12-20-2001, 12:59 PM

Samuel Mann,

Ok. I rather have that you correct what I have posted than "labelling" as to believing that the customer is wrong. That is just rather not fair on my end.

Basically you have the point there. If the hosting company advertises a backup they should be responsible to deliver that. What I was suggesting is for customers to arm themselves and totally not depend on what the host promises. Accidents sometimes happen. And YES, HostRocket, I suggest while you are sitting with your staff deliberating about your operations as I suggested above, do include a possibility of improving your backup. (I thought my suggestion that they [HostRocket] sit down is enough implication that they look also into their backup system. If you haven't thought of that Samuel Mann, well, believe me that was on my mind when I suggested it. )

And thank you for pointing out some minor mistakes in my post. What I don't like about your post is citing me as rather to appear "anti-customer". That is the message it is driving to me. The language/tone of your message maybe the reason.

:)

MarcD

12-20-2001, 01:09 PM

i will say this every host rocket thread i have seen has turned into a flame war. with host rocket saying the customer was in the wrong and other the customers saying different. every week these seem to come in.

do i have business posting here nope
do i use host rocket nope
will i use host rocket nope
do i have clients who use host rocket yes.
have they had problems nope

HRMelissa

12-20-2001, 01:10 PM

We have a project well underway to make remote datacenter realtime backups available via our CP as a value added service to our customers, however the backup system in place is adequate and exactly what we present it to be to our customers. There is no chronic problem with our backup system, if you are unable to download the generated backup problems, it is most likely due to a poor connection somewhere along the way. We have a lot of customers who download the backups with no problem weekly, some even daily. If you were having a problem with it, you should have sent in a ticket asking for help. Please explain to me how frontpage extensions being in a tar file could somehow effect its integrity.

-Brendan

MSW

12-20-2001, 01:12 PM

Brendan:

Feeling a bit schitzo today?

HRMelissa

12-20-2001, 01:15 PM

Yea I am :) My computers on our other connection which is being worked on right now so I jacked melissa's on her :)

-Brendan

Samuel Mann

12-20-2001, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by consul
Samuel Mann,

Ok. I rather have that you correct what I have posted than "labelling" as to believing that the customer is wrong. That is just rather not fair on my end.

Basically you have the point there. If the hosting company advertises a backup they should be responsible to deliver that. What I was suggesting is for customers to arm themselves and totally not depend on what the host promises. Accidents sometimes happen. And YES, HostRocket, I suggest while you are sitting with your staff deliberating about your operations as I suggested above, do include a possibility of improving your backup. (I thought my suggestion that they [HostRocket] sit down is enough implication that they look also into their backup system. If you haven't thought of that Samuel Mann, well, believe me that was on my mind when I suggested it. )

And thank you for pointing out some minor mistakes in my post. What I don't like about your post is citing me as rather to appear "anti-customer". That is the message it is driving to me. The language/tone of your message maybe the reason.

:)

I understand your position and your appreciate your openess.

When I posted the message including your username here I almost removed it after reading your post again.

The reason it was included was that the customer was being pointed out as should have done this, and should do this etc.

You continued the theme. Not that your post was negetive towards the customer, quite the contrary.

The very last part of your post reminded me of a site point moderator chiming in stating not to do this and not to do that when it is clearly a conversation without what they are warning about.

"For the rest, keep your cool. Stay focused on the issue presented. If possible, we refrain from unnecessary "derogatory" remark. Be assertive and not too aggressive. "

Is a general admonishment best left for the very capable modertors and owners of this forum.

Yes I have thought of Hostrocket's statement of backup, and have been a customer to find that the backup not only did not function for me, but failed in its implimintation when the disk controller crashed (No Raid :eek: )

Imagine the *hitstorm it was when that happen, I was there

As such about every aspect had been discussed on hostrocket's support forum and oddly enough a few customers actually argued with other customer by stating "What do you expect for 10 bucks a month" almost left that very same day when I saw support leave this question of contention because of the omission of enough information for their demographic customer to be able to understand the full implication of such a statement (Daily, weekly backups) When it comes down to it backups are huge walled automated tape systems which I doubt Hostrocket is using. I believe it is a command line solution that they have chosen in leasing from darkorb, if they even still do at this stage.

Please do not take personally your username being included in the list, it was the flow of the topic, and your admonishment unwarranted in the particular context of the thread.

You might have some great work to look at and I will be visiting your site very soon

imago-allan

12-20-2001, 01:26 PM

Samuel Mann,

Ok. Point well-taken. I am glad everything is clarified. No hard feelings here. And I know it is the same on your end.

Thinking of visiting our site? Great! Thanks.

Originally posted by Samuel Mann

I understand your position and your appreciate your openess.

When I posted the message including your username here I almost removed it after reading your post again.

The reason it was included was that the customer was being pointed out as should have done this, and should do this etc.

You continued the theme. Not that your post was negetive towards the customer, quite the contrary.

...

Please do not take personally your username being included in the list, it was the flow of the topic, and your admonishment unwarranted in the particular context of the thread.

You might have some great work to look at and I will be visiting your site very soon

:)

Samuel Mann

12-20-2001, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by HRMelissa
We have a project well underway to make remote datacenter realtime backups available via our CP as a value added service to our customers, however the backup system in place is adequate and exactly what we present it to be to our customers. There is no chronic problem with our backup system, if you are unable to download the generated backup problems, it is most likely due to a poor connection somewhere along the way. We have a lot of customers who download the backups with no problem weekly, some even daily. If you were having a problem with it, you should have sent in a ticket asking for help. Please explain to me how frontpage extensions being in a tar file could somehow effect its integrity. -Brendan

Brendan, I have used enough web host services to know that the way the backups work with cpanel are buggy in their implimentation due to not only my direct experience with it, but the numerous posts about it. I am going to post a thread about it today which will give you the context of front page extensions.

XXXXX Forums > Problems with backup file

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: xxxxxxx
Location:
Posts: 104
Problems with backup file
Hi,

I have some problems when expanding the backup file from the cpanel.

I have tried stuffit and Winrar and the both generate errors.

Winrar: D:\BACKUP\foldername\TAR_Files\backup-mydomain.com-12-13-2001.tar.gz: Unexpected end of archive

Stuffit: Give the error access violation when expanding the backup file.

Any ideas,

xxxxx

__________________
xxxxxxxxxx

December 18th, 2001 04:41 PM

xxxxx

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: xxxxxxx
Location:
Posts: 104
Important
I have a strong reason to believe that the backup files that we can access through the cpanel has a limit when it comes to the size of total backup file.

One of my sites has a total size of app. 45 MB. When expanding the tar file (i.e. the backup file from the cpanel) then some folders from the site are missing).

When expanding the tar file from a site which is only app. 12MB big, then all the files will be expanded.

Please have a look into this xxxx, because I believe that many resellers depend on the backup file for backup purposes.

xxxxxxxxx

__________________
xxxxxxxxxxxx

December 19th, 2001 02:59 AM

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered: Nov 2001
Server: xxxxxx
Location: Sweden
Posts: 214
I just downloaded a site backup file of size 27 MB. Got "Trailing garbage in GZIP file, decompression ended" error in WinZip 7.0 SR-1, but it did open the achieve.

I extracted the files to my Windoze machine with no problems and all folders seem to be there. Were the missing folders from under public_html or above it?

__________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

December 19th, 2001 05:15 AM

xxxxxxxxxx

Registered: Sep 2001
Server: xxxxxxx
Location:
Posts: 206
Doesn't xxxxxx make weekly and daily backups of files already?

__________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

December 19th, 2001 08:40 AM

xxxxx

Registered: Oct 2001
Server: xxxxx
Location: UK
Posts: 228
i think they make weekly backups, not daily.

__________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

December 19th, 2001 08:51 AM

xxxxxxxx

Registered: Sep 2001
Server: xxxxxxxxx
Location:
Posts: 206
I was always left with the impression that they make full backups weekly, and partial backups daily?

__________________
xxxxxxxxxxx

December 19th, 2001 08:55 AM

xxxxxxxxxx

Registered: Nov 2001
Server: xxxxxx
Location: Sweden
Posts: 214
From xxxxxxx AUP:

Backups: Full backups are made weekly, and backups of new/changed data made nightly. No guarantees are made of any kind, either expressed or implied, as to the integrity of these backups. Backups are made for server restoration purposes only. It is the clients' responsibility to maintain local copies of their web content any information. The "Backup Manager" is included in each hosting plan and client can use this tool to back up their files. If loss of data occurs due to an error of xxxxxxx, we will attempt to recover the date for no charge to the client. If data loss occurs due to negligence of client in securing their account or by an action of the client, xxxxxxxwill attempt to recover the data from the most recent archive for a $50.00 fee.

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xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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December 19th, 2001 11:23 AM

xxxxxxx

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: xxxxxx
Location:
Posts: 104

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by xxxxxx
Were the missing folders from under public_html or above it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Small Site: All files extracted

Big Site: All frontpage extension folders, cgi-bin (some files missing). Normal folders with 'normal' html files did not extract when expanding the tar ball.

It is a worry if we all rely on the tar file for backup purposes.

It seems to me that the setting for the backup tar file for our sites has a limit imposed on it when it comes to the size of the site which is going through the backup process.

xxxxxxxxxx

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December 19th, 2001 12:56 PM

xxxxxxxxxx

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: New York
Location: xxxxxxxxxx
Posts: 1885
Just curious if frontpage extensions have anything to do with it, but do you have any problems with sites that are rather large and don't have FP extensions installed?

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xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxx

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December 19th, 2001 01:01 PM

xxxxxxxxxx

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: xxxxxxxxx
Location:
Posts: 104
All my sites has frontpage extensions but the problem seems to be with large sites.

Any ideas??
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December 19th, 2001 01:22 PM
xxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered: Nov 2001
Server: xxxxxxxx
Location: Sweden
Posts: 214
Do you have SSH access to the problem sites? Have you tried tarring them "manually"? Had same errors?

I wonder what is the command line that CPanel uses... could that be it... And no, the site I backed up via CPanel didn't have FrontPage extensions installed.
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December 19th, 2001 03:29 PM
xxxxxxxxxxx
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: xxxx
Location:
Posts: 104
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have ssh access to the sites.

I have not used telnet before to generate tar files so if you could guide me a little bit it would be highly appreciated.

Many thanks again,

xxxxxxxxxxx
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December 19th, 2001 04:10 PM

xxxxxxxx

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: xxxxxxx
Location:
Posts: 104
Any ideas in relation to the missing files in the tar backup file?

xxxxxxx
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December 20th, 2001 03:55 AM
xxxxxxxxxx

Registered: Oct 2001
Server: xxxxxx
Location: UK
Posts: 228
how to tar and untar in SSH:

http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/557
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December 20th, 2001 04:03 AM
xxxxxxxxxxx
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2001
Server: xxxx
Location:
Posts: 104
Thanks for the link.

I am still a little bit concerned in relation to this matter because it is a great selling point telling clients that they can backup their files by using the backup link in the cpanel.

I have deleted some redundant files in my hosting account (e.g. cpanel shopping cart) so that I can try to expand the backup file and see if it works if the file is smaller. I will keep you guys posted.
xxxxxx
_________________

December 20th, 2001 04:41 AM

That is from today.

I experienced the very same thing while with your company, and saw others that did also.

Backups should not fail as regularly as they do. While this post is not your forum, it is indicative of the problem as a whole.

Remember I have used your services, and well over 10 others in the last 12 years and I have seen this on your forums with the very same comments and results.

As a relationship to the way Frontpage extensions work with cute ftp. They can shred the extensions. Not that it answeres your questions but as a whole a customer is left with a backup that is not working. I read on your forums many posts about backups being worthless. Do you disagree? (4 months of service with you and the theme did not change, people did not trust their backups then, and from the context of what I see now, people do not now.

You stating that our users download them every day (They are downloading backups of files included in the weekly backup that have changed. Not the entire site I believe, but does not address that their is a problem with the backup which means you are saying I am wrong. Now if I did not have direct exprience with your services, and currently with another hosting company I would actually say you got me there, but you havent because its apparent that in your minds eye I am wrong

(Mod if this post is too long or looks screwed I will edit it)

HRBrendan

12-20-2001, 01:59 PM

The frontpage extensions would not affect the integrity of a tar file... its an exact copy/restore procedure. Using FTP with a frontpage account is a different matter because when you do, you are not restoring files the exact same way that they were before ususally. Anyways, the error you are describing is most likely from a connection timeout when downloading the tar file itself resulting in a incomplete file. Anyone who's connection times out before they get the whole file will have a useless backup yes, because they are compressed as well as tarred and will be corrupt unless the entire file is present.

-Brendan

DOBrien

12-20-2001, 09:29 PM

Mr Brader

You state, “ The fact that noone here knows enough of our customers but us to have any idea whether or not the great majority of them were happy or not, is exactly the point I was getting at.” I do not see how it is logical to ask people to rely on a hosting company to provide information as to if a majority its customers are happy. If their customers were not happy, or they lost as many customers as they signed up because their product was inferior, why would that host tell us the truth? They’d avoid the issues.

Further, your statement does not address the number of very similar complaints about Hostrocket over time that one can read here, and I my self experienced. You are side stepping this topic presented in my previous post here.

You give the example, “If I were to ask you if ***** was bad, you would probably say yes. Im not saying theyre good, but you probably have never used them, and probably couldnt name 5 people who have. Im sure you could probably find 100 instances on this forum about them being bad, but that is still a bad sampling of a company with 100,000+ domains hosted.” You speak of that which you do not know. I could not answer a question about ***** as I have no experience with them. I have experience with Hostrocket. If I were looking for a host, I would consider what I read in these forums when making a choice.

However, I’ll go down this road with you for a bit. Your argument almost seems to make sense but there is a flaw. Statistical formulas often require constant values someplace in the equation. Here, in your example and logic, that would be the population, the customers who would be polled to see if they were happy with their host. You present that there would be 100,000 customers that a host could poll at this moment. The error in your statistical model is that the 100,000 people in the pool may not be the same 100,000 all of the time, not even close in some cases as upset customers leave and new ones arrive. The host has no way of polling those who’ve left and is therefore an unreliable source.

Lets say a company hosts 100,000 sites, but loses over 75,000 a year because their over all product is sub par. By offering very low prices or other incentive they replace the unhappy customers who leave at a rate equal to or higher than the rate of departure. The pool, the 100,000 current customers (your polling group) at any given moment contains customers who are simply not upset yet. Some may never be upset but many will be. The ones you miss in your model are the 75,000 who are upset and have left the host! The pool at the end of the first year would not be the 100,000 current customers you present but the 175,000 customers who’d spent at least part of the year with the host.

A subset of the 75,000 unhappy people might post in these forums. So might part of the 100,000 and for a while glowing reviews would run a good race with bad ones. However, after a couple of years, the 100,000 current, not yet upset customers, would be outnumbered by 125,000 unhappy customers who had left after a negative experience. Polls on sites such as this would reflect that shift and if the company did not improve their product, the result is obvious, increasing negative reviews in relation to positive reviews.

Interestingly this runs parallel to what I have seen in relation to Hostrocket reviews on this forum and others, i.e. the number of complaints increasing and outnumbering the level of praise at a growing rate.

I’ll add the disclaimer that all of these numbers are hypothetical and I’ve no information at all on *****. I have never used them and have no opinion about them. I think their name should not have been mentioned and I did not use it in my example. Mr. Brader introduced the name here.

I’d also add that Mr. Brader offering a hypothetical model and explanation for negative reports about Hostrocket, or any host, is indeed hypothesis, as is my explanation refuting it. Neither proves anything or answers the issues that have presented with nauseating regularity. The complaints offered by folks here are, at least to them, real. These supposed answers are not real or based in fact.

Mr Brader, you state, “Anyone who disagrees with that hasnt taken a statistics class, and there is no way to justify having a biased sample and trying to make an accurate assessment about anything, it just doesnt work.” I love it when folks use, as part of their argument, that anyone who disagrees is wrong because the logic is irrefutable, based on complete fact and all that, without actually offering incontrovertible evidence. Such statements prove nothing and offer little to the debate. They are a distraction and often, as in this case, flawed. Smoke and mirrors.

[I] “Im not saying were perfect, Im not saying were close to perfect. Im saying that if and when we do make mistakes, they are heard about 20x as much as anything we ever did correct.” [I] Though you may feel this is true, you offer no evidence that it is true. Your statement again does not answer the numerous and similar complaints here, or why these people have similar complaints. It is interesting to me that you’d dismiss complains so haphazardly with such obvious ploys.

Myself, I recommended folks to Hostrocket for the first 6 months I was a customer, I loved it so! All of them left over time. All of them were upset, mostly with support. It eroded their confidence in me considerably. I left positive reviews about Hostrocket! Then my well-documented negative experience started and seemingly would not end! These situations are very real, statistics or not. No one can force you to address them, however if you are going to do so, then do so directly if you’d be so kind.

Regards,

Dennis O’Brien