anyone read this storys about paypal ?
http://www.paypalwarning.com


we use several times paypal for internationale payments but never had this type of problems.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

This url has began spamming on newsgroups for a while. (ok, at least it looks like a spam to me). If you're curious, there are lots of these sites spreading out there.

Well, so far I have no problems using paypal but I tend not to be biased on any statement to anyone.

Think this, if paypal has 12 millions users in the world, is there such a need keep "pulling" others to believe their stories?

I believe the best way is to keep ourselves updated to current happenings, but do not take every word literally, digest it. Doesn't it look suspicious if only particular group keep propagating their thoughts and make others to boycott and follow the hatreds without any firm reasons behind?

Again, that's just my personal thought, I'd say anything can happen, but use our own judgement after listening to the stories. ;)

All legitimate customer issues can be resolved. I am also aware of the reasons for the creation of one of the sites.

PayPal has 12 million users, and we continue to grow at 20,000+ per day. Do you think we would grow that rapidly if we were not interested in servicing our customers?

The internet is a wonderful tool for information---but not all information is accurate, nor is all information truthful.

I think the fact that someone from PayPal took the time to reply speaks for itself. :)

While we don't accept payment via PayPal ourselves (we plan to in the near future), I have used them personally quite often to pay for services online, and think they provide a great way to pay for products and services.

Thanks:)

Off one of the sites listed. "24 hours later I received an email from Paypal saying they could not stop a payment that had already been received and that I needed to contact the recipient."

Then how was PayPal able to take cash back from my friend after he was sent it? He is a web host and a customer had an account for a week after paying then they went and broke the ToS and their account was closed. Next day he gets the PayPal payment taken back from him.

PayPal has 12 million users, and we continue to grow at 20,000+ per day. Do you think we would grow that rapidly if we were not interested in servicing our customers?

On the contarary, I think it has nothing to do with how fast you grow or how many people you are signing up. This is the time usually (when you are grwoing like crazy) customer service goes to the ground floor. Customer service issues surface with "existing/older customers" and not new customers that jsut signed up. I have also heard paypal time and again bragging about how many million users they have. The fact that they have 12 mil "registered accounts" does not mean they have that many users - they proabably have 1/10th of that number actually using the accounts. Most people sign-up with payapl, while making payments because, that is required - so it is usually for that one-time payment.

Having said, I am just posting the above comments as reply to your statement and I have not experienced any specific problems with paypal, though I have a list of improvements that could be made and I have posted them in the forum, in previous discussions.;)

I also do not think these people have so mcuh time one their hands that are putting up these websites and stories, without any reason. They in particualar might have had problems - I don't know. I don't believe so many people would be posting in the forums without a reason.

"Then how was PayPal able to take cash back from my friend after he was sent it? He is a web host and a customer had an account for a week after paying then they went and broke the ToS and their account was closed. Next day he gets the PayPal payment taken back from him."

This sounds like a chargeback issue.

Hi gurudev,

We process 200,000+ transactions daily. How many individual problems do you see on the sites? Did the users follow the terms of use? How many of the problems posted can be attributed to user error or violation of the terms of use? Do you know the parties posting individually? Do you know what kind of activities they are engaged in?

200,000 transaction daily over the course of a year comes to 73,000,000 transactions.

How many issues are really experieced, as a percentage, by the number of negative posts?

PayPal would not grow if the problems were as severe as some sites indicate. We would also not grow if we didn't listen to users. Parties that have reported issues here have consistently had my assistance in getting them resolved, which shows our commitment to satisfying our users.

When I use to use paypal, the only problem we had was in the chargeback department. We lost about $50.00 one time when a guy who had signed up for our services and used a tone of bandwidth, then decided that he wanted to move his site.

Paypal told us that they cannot cover people who intagible products and that our money was as good as gone. I then said what if this was to happen over a greater volume of money, and they said they would have no say in this topic. Basically, they said your on your own when you sell services.

We had over 5,000 transactions when our company was still held under us, and only about 4 of those transactions were called back, so it wasnt that bad.

Jim

Paypaldamon,

If you read my post properly, I mentioned that I have not experienced any specific problems other than the issues that customers are required to registered and sometimes they do not pay. I said I don't know what the issues are with these people but there some specific examples on those sites - is it ture? I don't know (I said the previously).

No matter how many transactions you are processing, the point I am tyring to make is that some people (people on those sites who are complaining) might have legitimate issues, albeit a small percentage and they have the right to complain - that is what I said, in essence.

Do you know the parties posting individually? Do you know what kind of activities they are engaged in?

Go back and read my post properly, I said "I don't know". Yet if they have had problems, then they have the right to complain.

Originally posted by Gurudev
I also do not think these people have so mcuh time one their hands that are putting up these websites and stories, without any reason. They in particualar might have had problems - I don't know. I don't believe so many people would be posting in the forums without a reason.

You are greatly mistaken, there are many people that truly have nothing better to do.


So far I have not had any real problems with PayPal, been waiting about 2months for a reply to my email, but it wasn't a business threatening issue.

As with others I have many ideas to improve PayPal's service, but for the most part I only use it to transfer payment to my employees and partners.

I was using "you" in a generic term...I did not mean to infer that those specific items were being directed your way. I was, perhaps in a bad way, trying to point out some other items users would want to consider when reading information off of the internet.

Sorry, but the PayPalWarning site has made my whole day miserable:)

I agree that legitimate customer issues should be resolved at all times.

From my experience, PayPal customer service is awful. Do not use them. They also do not have real buyer's protection.

If they claim they do, they are exaggerating. For instance, if you buy a diamond ring for $1000, and you are sent a $2 granite rock, PayPal will tell you that it is a "quality of merchandise issue". They will not recognize fraud. This is an analogy of what happened to me.

I was scammed for $608.50 from a seller who sold me non-working pirated software. This is a felony according to U.S. laws. I informed authorities who verified that the software is fake. I asked PayPal to conduct an investigation. They refuse to do so because they believe that this incident is a "quality of merchandise" issue. Really? Tell that to an adult! They treated me as a kid by running me around.

Tell this to an adult, and an adult will tell you:

So, when you grow up, IF you are caught selling illegal replicas of pirated software on the internet, and the FBI catches you, just tell them "but officer, PayPal told me that this is only a 'quality of merchandise issue.'"

Basically, if you want real fraud protection, don't use PayPal. They will run you around telling you to contact the felon, who will be LONG gone and will not respond to any of your e-mails.

By not recognizing fraud, PayPal collects on a 2.9% seller fee. They are allowing themselve to be a conduit for criminals and their illegal activities.

PayPalDamon's job here is to try to make user with legitimate complaints about PayPal look stupid. Basically, he is a wage earner here to do damage control.

The sites above and numerous user complaints at auctionwatch(.com) reveal real situations. This posting is a warning to those who wants to know if there are any problems.

You may sit happy today because you have not been defrauded, but when it happens to you, your views will change. You have been warned. If you want buyer's protection, think twice about PayPal. Use an escrow service.

I found them VERY good.

A few years back, I signup with a webhost called vikmar.com (now out of business). I ordered online, and the system administrator captured the order and said my card had failed to go through and asked me to sign up again.
I did.

I checked my 2 credit card balances a few days later, and saw I was sent over my limit so I called the CC company.
They said something unusual was going on, and that PayPal put through £1 first, then a whacking £350.
Checked my other CC and the same.

I contacted Vikmar AND PayPal - Vikmar said that there was noone called 'Chase Kawalksi' (chase@vikmar.com) working for them and he certainly wasn't the Managing Director.
They told me they would refund me the money if I didn't report them to the CC agency and gave me a dedicated server for free too.
Sod that - reported them for fraud.

PayPal were VERY helpful - they said if the CC company wouldn't help then they would refund me it anyway.

One thing I don't like, is because the fraudster used both credit cards on PayPal, they are in PayPal's system and PayPal won't remove them :/

--James

lol you gotta laugh at this quote from one of the above URLs (about a Church)...

In fact by a search on the internet, it appears PayPal is the largest money laundress for organized crime and pro-terriorist organizations that raise money with Gambling sites that are off-shore and not regulated. Most major credit cards will not allow use on these sites, so PayPal fraudulently shows the credit card usage is a PayPal payment rather than a gambling debt to the major credit card companies. http://paypal-casinos.com/

LOL

So PayPal aids in funding terrorists by allowing money laundering?
Can't they be sued for false allergations?


--James

I was thinking about this issue the other day.

Paypal does 200,000 transactions a day (or so paypaldamon says) and that equates to 70,000,000 transactions a year or more. What I'm kinda wondering is, why can't these horror story sites dredge up even MORE customers with complaints? You know burned customers love nothing more than to complain, whether they were at fault or not. People don't read the TOS then when they're bit by it they go waddling off screaming "false advertisement" and other things.

On the flipside, maybe I'm just lucky I'm sure if my funds got frozen for 2 months "for no reason" like many of these folks claim then I'd get mighty pissed mighy fast.

And these stories about intangible goods seems to me from now on when I send an auction payment, I'll just mark it as a "service" and then after I get my "service" I'll just say "hey I don't want this guy's service" and dispute it with Paypal. If it's THAT easy to get your money back on a service as some of the complaints say, then heck I'll make sure all my transactions are services from now on. Just gotta make sure you don't use a shipping option that requires signatures, seems just too easy, maybe there's more to most of these stories.

I guess the hard part is finding out is Paypal truly rotten at the core as these people claim or not? You see a lot of stories about how "once I got over $5000 in my account Paypal found some, any reason to lock my funds up for a few months", now, how many people routinely keep more than that in their account and never have a problem? Be nice if paypaldamon could maybe give some figures, like "average account balance, # of accounts over $5000, number of transactions per day (or week) that involve amounts over $5000" etc to give a hint as to whether these guys having $5K or more "frozen for some reason" are part of a large group of people most of whom don't have any problems, or if there are very few $5K accounts and this really is a trend?

So far has been so good with Paypal for me, here's hoping it stays that way :)

While I don't use them a lot myself, I have in the past and will in the future. Never had a problem, and the money's arrived on time, each time. With that and free t-shirts (and some speedy answers from Damon), I feel safe enough using them.

Greg Moore

Originally posted by akashik
While I don't use them a lot myself, I have in the past and will in the future. Never had a problem, and the money's arrived on time, each time. With that and free t-shirts (and some speedy answers from Damon), I feel safe enough using them.

Greg Moore

You get free t-shirts?!?! This is an outrage. I don't get free t-shirts!!!;)

-Lamar

LOL! Send me a PM with a name/size/address. As an FYI, I am a little behind in getting some older ones out because of the holiday crush.

I cant use paypal because they dont support my country and after reading the horror stories I would'nt use them even if they did.

It seems like paypal love pulling off scams and supporting 'cyberterrorists'. Ofcourse they benefit from each scam as it increases their income. I'm surprised that paypal has'nt been shut down as yet.

It's a clear warning, steer clear of PayScamPal :)

~Asher.

^Kyo you should have turned off your sig for that post. It advertises accepting credit cards with your company and you are here putting Paypal down. That can be seen as advertisint if people wanted to see it that way.

First thing that popped into my mind was... if he has never used them why is he posting... then I seen the sig.....

Excuse me, are you acusing me of advertising? If so, then just back off. I'm speaking from other people's experience which includes a few close friends and relatives. Is that explanation enough for you? Or are you a paypal fanboy? ;)

Go read the stories at http://paypalsucks.com and learn for your self.

Originally posted by venomx
^Kyo you should have turned off your sig for that post. It advertises accepting credit cards with your company and you are here putting Paypal down. That can be seen as advertisint if people wanted to see it that way.

First thing that popped into my mind was... if he has never used them why is he posting... then I seen the sig.....

Haha it could also be seen as dirty marketing by perspective customers (me for instance, I'm always on the lookout for a better way to collect money!). Great PR there, that's for sure, makes me wanna hand them all my incoming moneys, don't it you?

"Cyberterrorists" oh man I could start a whole thread about what I think of nearly anyone who uses the word "cyber" anything, it's so 1997.

Let's look at it from a somewhat realistic perspective:

Each scam by "cyberterrorist A" costs Paypal one (most likely more) legitimate customer.

So it is in Paypal's best interest to keep harboring these "cyberterrorists" because the half dozen or so transactions they're likely to pull off before being caught sure does bring in the revenue, as compared to the, oh, the 300 or so transactions a month I do.

It's a good business model to trade a possibly infinite number of "legit" transactions by a law abiding customer for a couple (and a couple is probably closer than a half dozen) shady deals by "cyberterrorists". Yeah your claim that Paypal has a vested interest in protecting "cyberterrorists" (I just can't stop using that word) rather than their law abiding customers sure makes a lot of sense to me.

Sounds like a good business model to me! Especially here in "cyberspace" where news travels so fast and companies can find themselves under an added level of scrutiny due to the speed at which information and misinformation can spread.

I ain't saying I don't think Paypal HASN'T screwed people in the past, not saying they ain't gonna screw a helluva lot more, they're a big company and therefore they have to set their policies in stone and any rigid policy will eventually screw someone, or at least make them feel screwed. I'm saying that overall I suspect they're not truly trying to screw anyone, it's a really crappy business model on the internet, news travels way too fast to get away with it for long.

Oh yeah pardon me for being so 1997ish ;)
what has it been, like a decade since that period lol.

I wasnt "acusing" you of anything. I just made a suggestion and BTW yes until Paypal does something wrong to me I will be a supporter.

I could pick any company around and find people that hate it and get all their stories together and make a site and then "SPAM" it all over to get "my" word out.

ooh another paypal fanboy ;) hehe j/k

there have been numerous complaints about various companies, thats why such sites exist :)

*****sucks.com
somethingsucks.com
paypaksucks.com
etc etc etc

I guess we gotta hear other people out too :)

Originally posted by venomx
. . . . until Paypal does something wrong to me I will be a supporter. . . . . .I was the same way. I guess it's just a matter of time.:rolleyes:
As a consumer; I don't like them because it's impossible to get back monies from a company that didn't give you what you ordered.
As a company; I like them because it's impossible for consumers to get back money it they think you didn't give them what they ordered.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
As a company; I like them because it's impossible for consumers to get back money it they think you didn't give them what they ordered.

:stickout lol hehehe ;)

My thoughts on this issue:

You guys were slamming Kyo for his comments because his business (listed in his sig) is a potential competitor to Paypal. However, might I remind you guys that whenever there's a thread about ***** or guys that offer "unlimited bandwidth" many of you in the hosting business jump on it and start stomping on those companies.

Sure you can say ***** and unlimited bandwidth hosts are scammers, but maybe to Kyo and others Paypal is too!

Lastly, I get the sense that there is bias in here because many are in some sort of online business and have their slant toward business owners rather than consumers. The reverse could easily be said in a consumer-oriented forum.

As an FYI---the seller, the party that had the issue with arurenusan, did refund the party.

This was an issue between the parties... not with PayPal. Of course, I doubt that the information will be put back here by the user. I can point to the thread if needed.