Looky here:

http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/heatvideo-01.html

Why oh why is AMD so stupid?

I have no idea if this is right, it is just a random guess, but I think Intel is getting what they pay for in R and D

You know, I bet if I took the oil pump out of my car the engine would seize up after just a few minutes of driving 120mph. Stupid car manufacturers should know better than to let this happen!

Should have known amd fanatics would figure out some way to put down the fact that as far as quality intel has always been and probally always will be the best. Good to see theres a test out that proves it.

Originally posted by alchiba
You know, I bet if I took the oil pump out of my car the engine would seize up after just a few minutes of driving 120mph. Stupid car manufacturers should know better than to let this happen!

Let's face it, fans do die, and Intel had done something about while AMD hadn't. That's the fact.

The report won't be complet before reading AMD's follow up (http://www4.tomshardware.com/column/01q4/011029/index.html) on this ... Not the best solution to come, but it will be much safer/better situation than the way it is now :)

PS, I am an AMD fans, not really fanatics yet ;)

cheers,
:beer:

Originally posted by muppie
Let's face it, fans do die, and Intel had done something about while AMD hadn't. That's the fact.

Quite true. But taking the car analogy one obnoxious step further. . . how much is a heat sink and fan? 20 bucks? I say change it every 3,000 miles and you're golden. :)

Don't some Socket A motherboards (including the ASUS A7V133) have a feature that, by user choice, either throttles down or shuts off the CPU past a certain temperature?

I have the A7V133 but have never conducted any tests of this feature. Anyone know how effective it is, presently?


Andrew

Originally posted by alchiba


Quite true. But taking the car analogy one obnoxious step further. . . how much is a heat sink and fan? 20 bucks? I say change it every 3,000 miles and you're golden. :)

If the PC is in your house, yes you change it every week no problem. If you have 100 servers in a data center..... how's that?

how much is a heat sink and fan? 20 bucks? I say change it every 3,000 miles and you're golden


The problem may not be solved easily just by changing the fan. If you read the article closely, you will see that some times the CPU latch (that holds the Fan down to the socket) may break and that may happen at any time. So even though your CPU fan is working perfectly, you may still be in a trouble at any give time...

Also, even if you change your CPU fan every 2 month or so, that does not guarantee that the CPU fan will always be working during the two months period. It may just break at any time! Hence, the analogy with changing oil in the car does not server well in this case since you won't get an oil that suddently changes its viscosity (cf. fan that just suddenly stops working) in such a way that it just stops flowing/flows at a very much reduced speed to harm/heat up your car engine :)

It is really necessary to have an internal protection in the CPU itself (not something external by having you check/change your CPU fan regularly, for example). Intel has gone one step further than AMD, and AMD should come with a similar solution.

cheers,
:beer:

THe point of the article was not to address how often to change our undies, (although i would recommend at least once daily) or to explore new motherboard features. Fact of the matter is its showing the quality of a product vs the quality of its competitor.

Originally posted by cbaker17
THe point of the article was not to address how often to change our undies, (although i would recommend at least once daily) or to explore new motherboard features. Fact of the matter is its showing the quality of a product vs the quality of its competitor.

Exactly !!!!

P.S. I cackled at your example :D

Intel processors have a feature that protects the cpu from overheating. When cooling is removed the cpu stops and the computer locks up.

AMD in the same situation will burn.

Lets assume that you purchase equivilant power AMD and INTEL systems and the AMD cpus cost 33% less.

If 1 out of every 3 AMD cpus fail and burn you would still be ahead in price:perfomace.

This is only true if you don't use overheat protection that is provided by one of the popular montherboards.

On a side note, a couple of months a collegue and I where setting up a bunch of dual 1GHZ intel boxes. The fan slipped from one of the CPUs and we QUICKLY turn the machine off. The chip was dead (intel warrentied it though). This was using on of the higher quality supermirco boards.

Problem is.... you can't afford having deployed 10 servers to a data center and 3 of them failed. Reliability is much more important to performance. If 3 out of 10 of your servers fail, you lose customers, and that will cost a lot more than just a couple of bucks extra to get Intel instead of AMD.

Once again if it's for your home PC to play Quake go ahead use whatever you fancy, but for web hosting, I wonder if you'd put that much risk on your business.

To me personally, I'd still choose Intel for my own PC simply because I don't want to gamble having my CPU toasted and having to spend that extra bucks to get another one.

We have used many AMD processors. They are good. Infact we have had cases where the fan has failed. But no damage was done. This would happen only in extremely conditions....

Have a great day :)

regards
amar

Originally posted by funkee

If 1 out of every 3 AMD cpus fail and burn you would still be ahead in price:perfomace.


What makes you think that 1 out of 3 will fail? Did you look at AMD's follow-up on this article? How many times have you seen the heat sink come off a CPU? I'm sure it happens, but I'm willing to bet that far fewer than 1 in 3 computers wil ever have something like that happen to them. I'm not going to try to argue that Intel doesn't have better overheating protection built into thait latest CPU's, but it's not like people are seeing Athlons fail in large numbers in the field.

-joe

I GIVE UP...... fine dont change your undies every day, but dont come crying to me, when the only friends you have left are the flys buzzing around your head.

Originally posted by joe52

How many times have you seen the heat sink come off a CPU? I'm sure it happens, but I'm willing to bet that far fewer than 1 in 3 computers wil ever have something like that happen to them. I'm not going to try to argue that Intel doesn't have better overheating protection built into thait latest CPU's, but it's not like people are seeing Athlons fail in large numbers in the field.


That's kind of the point I was trying to make but stopped before my approach got too silly. The article takes an extreme angle to prove a point, which I took one look at and laughed. All it proves is that if you defeat the purpose of something that something is bound to fail and most likely it won't be pretty.

In many years of servicing, owning and working with these buggers I have had only one heat sink fan fail on me. The most likely cause of such a thing happening is a botched CPU installation where the sink can actually fall off if not secured properly or the power line is disconnected. My experience has been that most of the time the CPU's or m/b's are upgraded before the fan comes close to dying. I've seen more m/b's fried at the timer chip area (closer to the power supply entry point) than at the CPU.

BTW, I'm entirely agnostic when it comes to CPU brands.

Originally posted by alchiba


That's kind of the point I was trying to make but stopped before my approach got too silly. The article takes an extreme angle to prove a point, which I took one look at and laughed. All it proves is that if you defeat the purpose of something that something is bound to fail and most likely it won't be pretty.

In many years of servicing, owning and working with these buggers I have had only one heat sink fan fail on me. The most likely cause of such a thing happening is a botched CPU installation where the sink can actually fall off if not secured properly or the power line is disconnected. My experience has been that most of the time the CPU's or m/b's are upgraded before the fan comes close to dying. I've seen more m/b's fried at the timer chip area (closer to the power supply entry point) than at the CPU.

BTW, I'm entirely agnostic when it comes to CPU brands.

The article isn't taking an extreme angle. These things can and do happen. Just because you've never had them happen to you doesn't mean it doesn' t happen to other people.

I mean, I have a Dell server that's got 3 hot-swappable power supplies, 4+ hot-swappable in-case fans, 4 scsi hard drives running on raid 5 with a hot spare sitting there getting ready to take over.

And 2 years later not ONE of them has failed on me yet! Does that mean they don't matter anymore?

Originally posted by Skeptical


The article isn't taking an extreme angle. These things can and do happen. Just because you've never had them happen to you doesn't mean it doesn' t happen to other people.

I mean, I have a Dell server that's got 3 hot-swappable power supplies, 4+ hot-swappable in-case fans, 4 scsi hard drives running on raid 5 with a hot spare sitting there getting ready to take over.

And 2 years later not ONE of them has failed on me yet! Does that mean they don't matter anymore?

Drive crashes are a part of life, that's why we have RAIDs. CPUs going up in flames are not quite as common or disastrous. . . unless in addition to disconnecting your heat sink just for fun you've also disabled your fire suppression system and the whole data center goes up in smoke. :D

Thats AMD fanatics, they could take a informative, non biased, factual article on why AMD isnt the greatest thing since sliced bread and turn the article into a far fetched rediculous rant.

Denial brings a person one step closer to the truth. :)

Originally posted by cbaker17
I GIVE UP...... fine dont change your undies every day, but dont come crying to me, when the only friends you have left are the flys buzzing around your head.

Interesting. Haev you ever had an experiment by not changing your undies just to see them flies coming ...... I would think they'd go for the undies.. and the head..... but... that depends on where you put your undies on... :D


<ps: cbaker don't get mad.. I was kidding...>

Originally posted by cbaker17
Thats AMD fanatics, they could take a informative, non biased, factual article on why AMD isnt the greatest thing since sliced bread and turn the article into a far fetched rediculous rant.

Denial brings a person one step closer to the truth. :)

No kidding man. Even a newbie can tell that there are those in severe denial here.

Originally posted by alchiba


Drive crashes are a part of life, that's why we have RAIDs. CPUs going up in flames are not quite as common or disastrous. . . unless in addition to disconnecting your heat sink just for fun you've also disabled your fire suppression system and the whole data center goes up in smoke. :D

And what IF the overheat short-circuits something else inside your computer and really does cause a fire?

I'm not entirely sure, but is the phrase "AMD fanatic" directed at me? If so, please note my use of the word "agnostic" above. Please look it up if you don't know the definition. Also, I've only owned one AMD product ever and that was about seven years ago.

I think you guys missed my original point, and we strayed a bit.

I still prefer AMD for price and performance. But this information, although not real new, is something that should be considered when making that CPU purchasing decision.

Too bad the Athlon doesn't have the overheating logic that the Pentium IV has. And too bad the Pentium IV doesn't perform like the Athlon in a server, and cost less.

I reckon AMD will be putting this feature in soon..... especially if one of their CEO read this thread

Originally posted by muppie
I reckon AMD will be putting this feature in soon..... especially if one of their CEO read this thread

Yes! This is what competition is all about. I'll bet in the next generation of AMD chips they'll be sure to put this feature in there somewhere. And then Intel will have to think of something new. So whether or not you're an AMD or Intel fanatic, it'll benefit us all. ;)

Computer repairs and sales is my main occupation, and I'm not biased either way, but I tend to sell more AMD's than Pentiums mainly because of price and performance. Over the last couple of years, I have only come across 2 fried CPU's. They both happened to be Pentium II's.

I've had lot's of power supplies fry because the fans seize up, but CPU fans tend to last longer.
Most good CPU fans have ball bearings, and power supply fans just usually have a bushing which gets dry.

Here's a little tip if your Power supply fan gets noisey as this is the most common computer problem going. (other than Windows)
:D

Most ps fans have a rubber plug on the back under the sticker that you can see through the rear grill. I just got a medium size syringe with a needle from the drug store, fill it up with light oil (3 in 1 oil or transmission fluid or something similar).

Just poke the needle through the grill in the back of your computer right through the rubber plug and give it a few drops of oil. No need to remove powersupply and fan loosens up and runs like new. After doing this, they even seem to last longer than a new one.

Some fans have a metal plug on the back, and it won't work, but most of them are rubber.

You can also do this to a cpu fan, but you have to remove the fan from the heatsink and oil it through the back.

Originally posted by muppie
Problem is.... you can't afford having deployed 10 servers to a data center and 3 of them failed. Reliability is much more important to performance.

BOTH the intel and AMD based machines WILL fail. Only the Intel cpu won't be damaged. Both machines will require a tech to open the box and fix it. The AMD machine will require a new CPU and fan while the intel cpu will likely only require a new fan.

Get it?

Originally posted by joe52


What makes you think that 1 out of 3 will fail? Did you look at AMD's follow-up on this article? How many times have you seen the heat sink come off a CPU? I'm sure it happens, but I'm willing to bet that far fewer than 1 in 3 computers wil ever have something like that happen to them. I'm not going to try to argue that Intel doesn't have better overheating protection built into thait latest CPU's, but it's not like people are seeing Athlons fail in large numbers in the field.

-joe

Let me clearify. I was taking an extreme aproach. (i.e. EVEN if 1 in 3 fail you are STILL ahead.)

Originally posted by Skeptical


And what IF the overheat short-circuits something else inside your computer and really does cause a fire?

Well, this didn't happend in the tests at Tom's Hardware.

Also, let me stress that this is really a moot point as any half decent AMD supporting motherboard contains overheat protection.

Originally posted by funkee


BOTH the intel and AMD based machines WILL fail. Only the Intel cpu won't be damaged. Both machines will require a tech to open the box and fix it. The AMD machine will require a new CPU and fan while the intel cpu will likely only require a new fan.

Get it?

Got it sir!! Good point! :agree:

Originally posted by funkee


Well, this didn't happend in the tests at Tom's Hardware.

Also, let me stress that this is really a moot point as any half decent AMD supporting motherboard contains overheat protection.

Are you implying that the burning of the cpu, with the smoke and the melting of parts doesn't increase the risk of a short circuit or spark, which can perhaps lead to a fire? None whatsoever? Less chance than the Intel IIIs?

Put it another way, if AMD offers this feature would you not want it?