D-Day 1899 and President Denzel Washington is leading liberation of New Zealand from the Nazi's
By Chris Hasting and Julie Henry
(Filed: 30/05/2004)

It is 1899 and Denzel Washington, the American president, orders Anne Frank and her troops to storm the beaches of Nazi-occupied New Zealand.

This may not be how you remember D-Day but for a worrying number of Britain's children this is the confused scenario they associate with the events of June 6, 1944.
Pupils knew more about Saving Private Ryan than they did about the real events of the D-Day landings

A survey of 1,309 pupils aged between 10 and 14 and from 24 different schools found alarming levels of ignorance about the invasion of Normandy 60 years ago.

Only 28 per cent of primary and secondary pupils who sat the quiz last week were able to say that D-Day, involving the largest invasion force ever mounted, was the start of the Allied liberation of occupied western Europe.

Many of them could only say that it was something to do with the Second World War - though 26 per cent were flummoxed by even that fact. Some thought it took place in the First World War, or was the day war broke out, the Blitz and even Remembrance Sunday.

"It's a day when everyone remembers the dead who fought," said a 14-year-old girl at a north Devon secondary school. Only 16 per cent of 918 participating primary school children had the answer right.

One 10-year-old in a Northamptonshire school thought it was the day the "Americans came to rescue the English". Another thought D-Day involved "the invasion of Portsmouth". Various dates for the assault were 1066, 1776, 1899 and 1948.

Children also had great difficulty in naming Britain's war-time prime minister. Less than half of the overall sample and only 39 per cent of primary school children correctly identified him as Winston Churchill; a significant number opted for Margaret Thatcher or Tony Blair.

Seventeen per cent of the sample and only 38 per cent of secondary school children identified Franklin D Roosevelt as the then President of the United States. Other candidates offered by both age groups were Denzel Washington (the Oscar-winning actor), George Washington, John F Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln and George W Bush. Some said simply: "George Bush's dad."

Ignorance about the Allied leaders, however, contrasted sharply with knowledge about Adolf Hitler. Overall, 71 per cent of the sample and 64 per cent of primary school children were able correctly to name the Nazi leader. Only one in three could identify the broad location of D-Day, with a number saying that it happened in New Zealand, Skegness or Germany.

Thirteen per cent could name two of the beaches involved, and only 10 per cent of the sample knew that Dwight D Eisenhower was the Supreme Allied Commander. Others thought that the invasion was led by Anne Frank, Private Ryan (the eponymous hero of the Steven Spielberg D-Day epic), or Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery, Eisenhower's deputy.

The disclosure that school children know so little about D-Day comes a week before the country prepares to celebrate the anniversary and will again focus attention on what sort of history is being taught in schools.

Even in those schools where the Second World War is taught, the emphasis is not necessarily on military events or even wartime leaders. One primary school teacher said: "We do study the Second World War but we do not tend to concentrate on particular military events or leaders. We look at issues that are relevant to children themselves. They learn about evacuation for instance, or the issuing of gas masks."

Dr David Starkey, the historian and television broadcaster, said yesterday that the survey had uncovered what he called a climate of "unfortunately reduced horizons and expectations".

It was "absurd", he said, that children were spending so much time discussing Hitler and Stalin to the detriment of everything else connected with the war.

"There is nothing difficult about the concepts being discussed and no reason why a child of primary school age should not be able to understand."

He said that he did not want to go back to a situation where history teaching was nothing but dates and battles, but he said he feared that the pendulum had swung too far in the other direction.

"I think that trying to begin any subject by relating to a child's own experience is a useful tool. But education is about teaching children things they do not know."

Chris Grayling, the shadow education minister, said: "These are really very recent events that have shaped the lives of all of us.

"It is a real worry that so few children seem to know the basics of what happened during the Second World War. We must not allow this to continue."

There were some exceptions to the general ignorance. One teacher at Great Addington Church of England Primary school in Northamptonshire was amazed to find that one of his pupils had scored 100 per cent in the test.

He said: "I asked him how he knew material which we had not covered in school. He told me he had picked it up from a D-Day game he played on his computer."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=OCP2Z2YM22UTZQFIQMFCM5WAVCBQYJVC?xml=/news/2004/05/30/ndday30.xml

Seems like Discovery Channel's D-Day special will be coming at good time :D

sounds about right m8, the schools round here are more interested in not being seen as racist or biased in any way and refuse to teach english history.

It's not just British who don't know that information, it's also students in America who don't know it.

Originally posted by phill2003
sounds about right m8, the schools round here are more interested in not being seen as racist or biased in any way and refuse to teach english history.

ohh so political correctness comes before learning?

ohh so political correctness comes before learning?

In fact, in a lot of cases, yes it does. It may be wrong, but Britain must bend over backwards to suit everyone who lives there; and therefore if it isn't "in" with everyone, it doesn't usually happen. Glad your eyes are now open. :)

So sad..... :-(

Sad, but undoubtedly true on both sides of the Atlantic I guess....

Though I did get a chuckle out of this line:

"....it was the day the "Americans came to rescue the English"."

:)

I have trouble beliving that there are people this ignorant out there... but I know its true because my little sister is one of them. It's sad really.

That doesn't suprise me one bit. I've had class with people who didn't know where WW2 took place, or what it was about.

Information like that isn't required knowledge to pass the class. These days you can pass school without having actually learned anything.

there are many american that think that Isreal is one of the US states :|

it was a study made by some college students..

there are dum people all around....

man.. I saw this movie they made on interviews on hows Saddam, whats the Vice Predisent name and some other questions that normal person should know...

the answers were UNBELIEVABLE?!?

Dumness still is around... everywhere

i loved history in school :) and tought us pretty well in history
just my english was never very good ;)

saw on the tv the once a servay simular to this where they went round usa asking simple questions, think only 2% knew what the UK was (united Kingdom) couldnt stop laughing with the answers to some of the questions. true about schools in the uk, teach everything but british history, i went to a catholic school and in our religiuos edication class's they would teach everything about other religions but wouldnt teach about catholic as that would be discrimative. cazy this country is going. i seen that some people were ordered to take the st georges flag down they put on there house as it was seen as being rasist?

Yeah, my neighbours went onto the street waving a flag of some sort and shouting something that sounded like "Allah rugadai sal manoor" but I'm probably completely deaf from too many years of sitting next to xxxxW PA systems at concerts.
But when I went down the road twiddling (not waving) a St George's flag, I was told that it was offending local residents and that I was to give them my small (A5) flag.

I'm sorry, but its our country, we have OUR flag, and we're not allowed to show our support for our queen, remember the members of our country who gave their lives in wars looking after another country. Its getting to the stage where its surprising that I see british people in my area.

i thought it was widely known that British kids are the dumbest kids in Europe ;). Just look at how they write in forums m8 :p.
Maybe they should have mentioned Omaha or something, they would have known that from Medal Of Honor hehe.

Seriously, i'm more interested in their knowledge of current events than of history.

» I'm sorry, but its our country, we have OUR flag, and we're not allowed to show our support for our queen, remember the members of our country who gave their lives in wars looking after another country.

Exactly. I think that it is appalling how the ethnic minorities are able to go into our streets, and call us names, say that we deserve to die - yet when we want to show some respect to our Queen, we're not allowed to as it is apparently racist.... is Britain trying to give the word "racist" a new meaning?

What's worse, is that we are not allowed to do all those things in their countries. I'm against the BNP, however they seem to be the only party who is interested in the rights of the real British people. If the British government are kind enough to allow people to immigrate, then those immigrants shouldn't bad mouth the British people, nor the British government.

Britain is supposed to be a multicultural country with equal rights for all, yet day by day it seems to be favouring those ethnic minorities and shunning the real British people away.


---- NOTE ----
I've used "ethnic minorities" and "real British people" in the wrong way here, however will add this bit to explain rather than rewrite what I just wrote. By ethnic minorities I mean those who don't class themselves as British yet have British citizenship, those muslims (and other religions) who come out in the streets and shout "Die Blair! Kill Blair!" and so on. By the real British people, I mean anyone who has British citizenship, yet also accepts themselves as being British - therefore not going out into the streets and chanting that we should die and so on, not saying that we cannot wave a British flag, not saying that we cannot pay respect to our queen.
Hope this clears it up a bit. :)

Originally posted by Eric Cartman

Seriously, i'm more interested in their knowledge of current events than of history.

I agree with you that knowledge of current events is important but the lessons of history are just as important.

To paraphrase an important saying: Those who do not learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

It is important to know how historical events shaped the current world. The bad must not be allowed to be repeated.

» The bad must not be allowed to be repeated.

Well, the pendulum does always swing back. Therefore it's impossible to prevent things from rehappening; of course though there are many who do not believe in the pendulum theory and therefore those people do believe that things can be prevented.

I personally do believe in the pendulum theory, and therefore obviously do believe that it will swing back. In the future there will be another leader like Hitler - it obviously won't be him, and it may not even happen in Germany; but I believe it'll happen.

Whilst I do find it somewhat ignorant that these kids don't know basic facts about WW2, in their defence (at least the younger ones) if their schools are anything like the one I attended then they may of not been taught anything about WW2 by the age of 10 - 13, after all we have hundreds of years of history to work through before WW2 and in my school's case we didn't start on WW2 until I was about fourteen.

Its not so much that kids don't know the information...well, they don't, but they don't have anyone to teach them. The fact is, most schools simply don't teach it. I was never taught anything about ww1 or ww2 in school. Not even in highschool.

Originally posted by Anjay
» I'm sorry, but its our country, we have OUR flag, and we're not allowed to show our support for our queen, remember the members of our country who gave their lives in wars looking after another country.

Exactly. I think that it is appalling how the ethnic minorities are able to go into our streets, and call us names, say that we deserve to die - yet when we want to show some respect to our Queen, we're not allowed to as it is apparently racist.... is Britain trying to give the word "racist" a new meaning?

What's worse, is that we are not allowed to do all those things in their countries. I'm against the BNP, however they seem to be the only party who is interested in the rights of the real British people. If the British government are kind enough to allow people to immigrate, then those immigrants shouldn't bad mouth the British people, nor the British government.

Britain is supposed to be a multicultural country with equal rights for all, yet day by day it seems to be favouring those ethnic minorities and shunning the real British people away.


---- NOTE ----
I've used "ethnic minorities" and "real British people" in the wrong way here, however will add this bit to explain rather than rewrite what I just wrote. By ethnic minorities I mean those who don't class themselves as British yet have British citizenship, those muslims (and other religions) who come out in the streets and shout "Die Blair! Kill Blair!" and so on. By the real British people, I mean anyone who has British citizenship, yet also accepts themselves as being British - therefore not going out into the streets and chanting that we should die and so on, not saying that we cannot wave a British flag, not saying that we cannot pay respect to our queen.
Hope this clears it up a bit. :)

It's starting to become like that in the states.

Originally posted by adorno
I agree with you that knowledge of current events is important but the lessons of history are just as important.

To paraphrase an important saying: Those who do not learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

It is important to know how historical events shaped the current world. The bad must not be allowed to be repeated.

true , lessons from history are important. Although, it also depends on the sources, i wouldn't consider relying on old pravda to takes lessons from Stalin ;).

Historical "facts" are less important in my opinion since it mostly has to do with memorizing (like a lot of school stuff) instead of learning. With current events you can actually learn (if you're interested in it), since you can check many sources, form opinions, see if your predictions come true , etc.
Which i consider way more important than just knowing (memorizing) old stuff.

Originally posted by Anjay
[b]If the British government are kind enough to allow people to immigrate, then those immigrants shouldn't bad mouth the British people, nor the British government.


That's typical totalitarian what you just said. Not making a destinction between government and people and not letting people criticize the government (political or cultural). It's completely ridiculous. If it's okay for what you consider a "born and raised Brit" to bad mouth the government or people, it's also okay for immigrants. Otherwise you are applying doublestandards, which are based on origin (which is basically racist). I have no problem with people who are racists aslong as they let me say that they are idiots.

I have to admit, I was completly ignorant to the fact that things were like this for you British brothers and sisters of mine. It's almost comforting to know, as bad as that sounds. Because here in the U.S., things are definetly heading in that direction (the fact that everything is becoming politically correct that is). Luckily, it hasn't influenced our education system yet, atleast not in the places around the country I have lived. We learn all about many other countries, religons, races, etc.. it would really be a shame if it did, and I really feel for you guys.

As for the knowing current events versus those of history, I feel they are equally important. To say that history is less important is completly ridiculous.

Originally posted by bow-viper1

As for the knowing current events versus those of history, I feel they are equally important. To say that history is less important is completly ridiculous.

I consider learning more important than memorizing something someone else said or concluded. With current events you learn, with history you memorize someone elses concluses. Thus the history is less important for me.
Like maybe in a couple hundred years or so the current Invasion of Iraq will go into history as some kind of humanitarian thing while it was about WMD.
If you look how the recent "mainstream history" is with all the media available i wonder how "correct" things are that happened 1000 years ago. For all i know, i could have been memorizing lies in high school.
Luckily i had a good history teacher (last years of high school) who devided her lessons into history and current events, since she believed that the history that's being written every second you live is also important.

Originally posted by Eric Cartman
I consider learning more important than memorizing something someone else said or concluded. With current events you learn, with history you memorize someone elses concluses. Thus the history is less important for me.
Like maybe in a couple hundred years or so the current Invasion of Iraq will go into history as some kind of humanitarian thing while it was about WMD.
If you look how the recent "mainstream history" is with all the media available i wonder how "correct" things are that happened 1000 years ago. For all i know, i could have been memorizing lies in high school.
Luckily i had a good history teacher (last years of high school) who devided her lessons into history and current events, since she believed that the history that's being written every second you live is also important.
Hey Eric, give it up man.

It seems important to you that you win an argument, and that nothing anybody else says matters. Knowledge of current events and about historical events are equally important. The argument about how history is open to interpretation applies to current events just as well. When a person attends a school system with liberal or conservative leanings, the presentation of history or current events may be tainted. But, if the facts, and results of events are presented, there is nothing to fear.

Current events is but a small part of the truth. History has many more times the lessons that people need to learn. Current events without a historical perspective is useless.

Committing to memory the important events and lessons of the past is very important to the management of current affairs. Memory is what people use for just about any field of science or human endeavor. Logic is used for interpretation of the facts or lessons which are absorbed into memory.

That's typical totalitarian what you just said. Not making a destinction between government and people and not letting people criticize the government (political or cultural). It's completely ridiculous. If it's okay for what you consider a "born and raised Brit" to bad mouth the government or people, it's also okay for immigrants. Otherwise you are applying doublestandards, which are based on origin (which is basically racist). I have no problem with people who are racists aslong as they let me say that they are idiots.

I never said that those immigrants cannot criticise the British government, however I'm talking about all the muslims who go into the streets of Britain and say that we the British people should die (When we personally have done nothing wrong to them), and that the British government should die (I dislike Blair as much as anyone else, however I'll never wish that anyone should die). Imagine that all the muslims in the U.S. go into the streets and say that the American people should die and that the American government should die, how would you feel? (I know it happens in Iraq, however I've never heard of it happening in the streets of America; but I could be wrong - and if it has happened, how did you feel?)

What's more, I believe that no one should be allowed to do those things, neither a born and raised British person, nor an immigrant. I believe that no one should wish someone else to die; we may dislike someone, and we all obviously should be allowed to criticise the government of our country, however I personally believe that it is wrong for anyone to wish for someone else's death.

If my above thoughts makes me a racist, fine, but I do not believe that anyone should do what the Muslims in Britain do which is say that the people of that country should die and that the members of the government of that country should die - especially when we give them a free house and free money so that they don't have to work.

Oh, and I'd love to know your thoughts on the post by Joseph_M, in regards to him not being allowed to wave the St George's flag in a country where the saint of that country is St George. I'd also like your thoughts on what happened at one school in England: The school banned pupils from wearing anything British on non-uniform day as it apparently incited racial discrimination against muslims and blacks; yet a British football player who is black himself said that any child should be able to support their country by wearing the colours of their country - he is black and doesn't think that wearing the British football kit to school on non-uniform day is racial discrimination against blacks or muslims.

So, I guess if thinking what I think makes me a racist, then I'm a racist.

That is bloody obscene to suggest that my nation ever succumbed to the Nazi's!!!! Maybe education needs to be reviewed in many nations

there are many american that think that Isreal is one of the US states :|

Yes, the high school drop outs. People who actually make it through school aren't that dumb and ignorant.

after all we have hundreds of years of history to work through before WW2 and in my school's case we didn't start on WW2 until I was about fourteen.

In this school system, we learn about world history, then US history, then the 21st century. But, I haven't met anyone who doesn't know major facts/events in wars such as WW2.

Originally posted by JTY
Information like that isn't required knowledge to pass the class. These days you can pass school without having actually learned anything. Yes.

Originally posted by Anjay

I never said that those immigrants cannot criticise the British government, however I'm talking about all the muslims who go into the streets of Britain and say that we the British people should die (When we personally have done nothing wrong to them), and that the British government should die (I dislike Blair as much as anyone else, however I'll never wish that anyone should die). Imagine that all the muslims in the U.S. go into the streets and say that the American people should die and that the American government should die, how would you feel? (I know it happens in Iraq, however I've never heard of it happening in the streets of America; but I could be wrong - and if it has happened, how did you feel?)


I think the day that happeneds many muslims will die......

I used to sit next to a bosnian in high school during lunch. He told me that him and his family had to leave a bosnian festival because they were burning American flags. He said If you don't like the country then you should leave.

I found that encouraging coming out the mouth of a foreigner, especially a muslim. You don't have to be proud to live in your country (infact I think it's better if you aren't), just respect it.

Originally posted by Radix
I used to sit next to a bosnian in high school during lunch. He told me that him and his family had to leave a bosnian festival because they were burning American flags. He said If you don't like the country then you should leave.

I found that encouraging coming out the mouth of a foreigner, especially a muslim. You don't have to be proud to live in your country (infact I think it's better if you aren't), just respect it.

I don't understand what you mean and don't want to jump to conclusions: You say that you feel it's better that you don't have pride of the country you live in?

As for the muslims in GB wanting to kill Blair and the Brits, its due to their religion. Islam says that all infidels should be put to death. You are an infidel if you do not believe in the religion of Islam. So if you meet a muslim, or know a muslim, their religion tells them that if you are not a fellow muslim, you are then an infidel, so must be put to death.

As for the "Reverse Discrimination" listen to this. At school, we have a Black Student Union, a Latino Student Union, an Asian Student Union, a Queer Student Union and several more. However, when a group of students wanted to start a Heterosexual White Male Student Union, they were denied. Why? Because the administration said it would be racist. Even though it would be an open group just like all the others that doesnt discriminate against people of differing beliefs, and anyone can join. Now, tell me this, why is it racist to have a White Student Union, but not a Black Student Union?

In reality, the Heterosexual White Male is soon becoming the most discriminated class in America.

Originally posted by amish_geek
Islam says that all infidels should be put to death.

so wrong so wrong, where did you get this info from??
could you please read a bit before posting those info as facts, did you ever read Holy quran?? where does it say that?

The only case we muslims should kill any infidels is when they attack us.

Web Rhino, from your above post it shows that you're a muslim.

I'd like to ask you then, if you wouldn't mind answering - why is it that the British muslims find it necessary to crowd the streets and curse at the other British citizens, say that we deserve to die, say that Tony Blair and the British government deserve to die? (Note: I am talking about when they are actually cursing us and saying that we should be dead - not when they criticise the British government in a respectful manner, which is barely ever may I add) - Obviously what makes it worse is that the good majority of those muslims who do that are on income support, and have a free council house or flat and don't work.

I don't believe that I'm racist, and am not against muslims. I do have friends who are muslims; they are French muslims, as I find that it is really the British muslim who is the "bad" muslim if one can say that. It's just I don't understand what goes on in the mind of British muslims; and I'm sure many wonder the same thing.

I'd really like to know your thoughts on what the muslims in the United Kingdom do Web Rhino. Much appreciated. :)

Originally posted by skreid
In this school system, we learn about world history, then US history, then the 21st century. But, I haven't met anyone who doesn't know major facts/events in wars such as WW2.

If you read the article you will see it is about 10 - 14 year olds, maybe where you live 10 years olds spend their spare time reading history books and watching documentries on WW2, from my experience they are rather more concerned with playing playstation games, skateboarding, playing football and so on. Thus if they have up to that point in their schooling studied the Romans, Saxons, Normans and so on, but never even touched WW2, then for example, why should they know who Eisenhower was?

Now, tell me this, why is it racist to have a White Student Union, but not a Black Student Union?

I know, it's insane. What they don't realise is, that they're trying so hard not to be racist against muslims, blacks, and every ethnic minority that in fact they're turning the white population into an "ethnic minority" - not in the sense that there aren't a lot of white people, however in the sense that we're always being discriminated against in their great efforts to not discriminate against non-whites and non-christians.

http://www.primechoice.com/philosophy/shelp/islamandinfidel.htm

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/allahorjesus.shtml

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Al-Mansur/Christians_emberace_islam.htm

It is only when you truely seek to understand other religions that you can realize which ones are true and which ones dont hold water.

Originally posted by Anjay

I'd really like to know your thoughts on what the muslims in the United Kingdom do Web Rhino. Much appreciated. :)

Okay; yes I’m a Muslim , and I’m really proud of it, I originally come from the middle east my parents still lives in Egypt, but my company is in LA, USA, so it's not like I’m from another planet or something, but i know how ppl think on both sides.

First i would like to point out , that ANYONE should respect the rules of ANY country that gives him shelter, i guess i don't have to explain myself more, I’m totally against killing anyone because he's against my way of thinking, i'm also totally against killing innocent ppl because they don't share my believes.

I didn't read the news about the British Muslims demonstrations, so i can't say what really happened there.

All i can say is, that someone for some reason started a war against Muslims, that Muslims doesn't want to fight, it might seem strange to you, but this is how i see it, the ppl who attacked NY 9/11 were not Muslims, they are USA funded terrorists, they were always wanted by countries like where i come from (Egypt), so why blame Islam and Muslims for it.

Have you ever what's in 9/11 for Muslims? i mean what did they acquire or win?

do you know how many Muslims died because of 9/11? how many innocent Muslims died under the fake title of collateral damage?

No one can feel like we Muslims feel now, we are being slaughtered everyday, and the world is watching, we deserve to die because some 20 so called Muslims funded by USA attacked the hand that feed them.

Islam as a religion has nothing to do with what’s going on, islam is not different than Christianity or Judaism, the only difference is that islam believes in one god (what you call the father) and that the last profit was Mohamed PBOH, but we also share you ppl all you're believe except that Jesus CHRIST is God, we believe in him, we believe in all his miracles, and he is very honored in Islam as a great prophet, we also honor his mother Miriam, we believe she's the most honored woman ever lived.

We are not you're enemies, but you have made us so, that’s why you might find the media highlighting some Muslim cleric saying that USA or UK must die, i mean what do you expect, you go to war on 2 muslim countries in 2 years+ what’s happening in palatine everyday+ planning war on other muslim countries like Syria and Iran, so you are actually like fighting the whole muslims world in 2 years, it's shocking.

The way thing are going now, is not for the benefit of anyone of anyone, this is not a holy war, but fanatics on both sides are using the media to make it so, believe me, I’ve seen this on both side- not just the muslim side.

Lets face it, Muslims are +25% of the world population, if you keep hurting this percent of the world feelings, and keep giving them the impression that they are in a holy war, what will you get, peace?

Muslims have no hard feelings for Christians or Jews, in fact my country population is 20% Christians, my best friend from there (George) is Christian, I don't mind if egypt was ruled by a Christian, in fact, i wonder why does USA support egypt government while it's hated by most Egyptians- see here is where USA gets the bashing again, USA is supporting unwanted rulers in the middle east, most of them are not any different than Saddam Hussein, who was supported by USA at one point.

Jews lived in Egypt in peace before the went to palatine- and they can't deny that- cause there is 10,000 Jewish in morocco, and few in other arab countries.
They still enjoy sharm elshek(a beach resort in SAINI), and i never heard of any attacks against them in the past 10 years, or maybe ever!

I’m sorry if i got drifted, but i know felt i had to let some of my thoughts out, i know they will make no different for many of you ppl.

I want to say one last word to Jews and Christian, but specially Jews: we can live in peace, give peace a chance, and sorry for being offtopic dk2 ;)

Originally posted by amish_geek
http://www.primechoice.com/philosophy/shelp/islamandinfidel.htm

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/allahorjesus.shtml

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Al-Mansur/Christians_emberace_islam.htm

It is only when you truely seek to understand other religions that you can realize which ones are true and which ones dont hold water.
ouh my GOD, again and again and again, those are not quaran, your 3 links are full of lies about islam.
please get me an Arabic version of quaran, and show me where it says that i should go out in the street and kill any unbeliever that i meet because he doesn't believe in ALLAH.

am i not a muslim?? :eek:
i know about my quran more than you do, so please show a valid proof, that i don't know my reliogon.

You don't have to slander Islam to prove that you're beliefs are right, most of the translations you have brought are put in a very wrong way, some of them is actually not in the quran, some of them is identical to what is in bible, so please respect my religion like i respect your, we are ordered to do that.

okay done some reserch from one of your links:

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/8813

It's all about knowing the whole historical context those holy books were written in.

I invite my fellow Christians to actually read the bible and realize that it also contains a lot of hate, violence and inferiorisation of women etc...And for the more open-minded ones, I mean those who can understand and intellectually interpret readings, they should read the Koran as well. They will realize that it's not that different from the bible in its teachings.

AMIN, time for me to run now, bye

Originally posted by Anjay
Now, tell me this, why is it racist to have a White Student Union, but not a Black Student Union?



you forgot the music of black origen, top 100 black britons, wheres the music of white origen and the top 100 white britons? everyone should be equal, everyone should be able to be proud of where they come from without being called rasisit for flying there home flag. just some individuals think the world is out to get them and must therefore make special catogories to place themselves in, most non-white ppl i know think the same on this, they are being minoritized when there is no need for it, all it does is just create tension and anger. afterall if you go back far enough we are all related, we are all equals. so lets all start acting like it

Originally posted by dk2

He said: "I asked him how he knew material which we had not covered in school. He told me he had picked it up from a D-Day game he played on his computer."




At the risk of posting back on topic... ;-)

The message here is clear to me:

Reach students in ways that resonate TO THEM and the education process is enabled. Bore them with a lecture format pioneered in the 18th century .. and well, you're too often just passing time from 8 - 3:30, Monday - Friday.


There was a bru-ha-ha in Arizona a few years ago.
Some slick-talkin', snake oil salesman (probably an army of salesman and lobbyists) convinced the legislature to spend $50,000,000 on statewide testing for kids of certain ages, yada, yada. Some law? policy? something? made passing it a condition for graduation from High School.

The bru-ha-ha became public when the "pre-test" (i.e. practice test) was given. Even before the results were tallied, the reaction of the kids foreshadowed the debacle. The newspaper printed a quote from one of the students, "They asked something about a matrix in the math part. I'm pretty sure it didn't have anything to do with Keanu Reeves."

A huge percentage failed.
Of course, the cries for more funding followed.
And the complaints: "Now we have to teach the material mandated by the district AND what's on the test?"

Bad teachers? Dumb kids? Wrong test?
Big mistake to spend the huge sum of money?
All of the above?

Over the following days and weeks, more of the story came out.

Little things like:

The teachers were given the test. The state refused to release their results. LMAO. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

What to do? What to do? Johnny and Mary must pass this test in just 2 short years (the sophomore class at the time would be the first required to pass when they became seniors) or what? class sizes increase by 50% and the diploma printers lose 1/2 their business? No, No, a "special diploma" was proposed. Mary gets a regular diploma because she passes and Johnny gets a different one because he didn't. Explain that to a college or employer.

I called it a *Diploma... kinda like the * on Roger Maris single season homerun record from the early 60's.
Insanity doesn't skip a generation after all, buckwheat.

But wait, there's more...

The company who developed, sold, administered, tallied the test refused to reveal the contents. That's their intellectual property. To publish it would harm them significantly. A group sued. The courts agreed with the company. (frankly, I do also.)

BUT... never fear. They ALSO sell "study guides" and other materials directly to the parents of the kids - the ones who love them enough to spend the money, of course.

AH HAAA

That's the recipe:

1) Sell people who don't know jack-squat-diddly about education a service for $50,000,000 - who, by the way, are in a position to mandate its use statewide - who are suckers for the "good of the children" sales close.

2) Give a secret test in the native tongue of the students, but covering material that only occasionaly brushes by the curriculum being taught.

3) Sell materials for more money directly to shocked, scared, guilt-ridden parents so Johnny and Mary have a snowball's chance to graduate with a real degree, not a *diploma.

4) Repeat until no more suckers found.



Can we all just agree that the only intersection between the skills a government is good at and the skills needed to run an education system is MONEY COLLECTION?

Beyond that, we're just kidding ourselves (at least in the US) that the education model developed in a time when society was transitioning from an agrarian culture to an industrial one is adequately equipped to produce knowledge workers instead of industrial - simply because that's what's needed now. Besides, "this is how we've always done school." (yikes)


You want education reform? Put the "textbook publishers" out of business and hire Electronic Arts et al to turn every Nintento, Gameboy, Sega, XBox, PC and MAC into GameBooks machines.

Why not?
If Grand Theft Auto is the draw... teach physics at the same time.
Maybe the hooker can recite famous quotes from history while she's in the car... or YOU identify who said it when she gives the quote. THEN she gets in the car. Get 3 right and she charges you less cash. lol See?

The possibilities are endless.

Now in study hall it's not "Dude, hook me up with some weed."
it's "Dude, 'Give me liberty or give me death', Yo. What up? Hook me up. I need to score on level 10, dawg. What homie said that chit?"



:-))

Dan

Web Rhino, there is no war against Muslims. The only people who consider it that way are Muslims. The war is against terrorists, and if most or all of them happen to be terrorists, that's the way it is. And you say those who did the 9/11 attacks and who do all the nasty terrorist stuff aren't really Muslims, well fine, maybe so maybe not although they consider themselves Muslim. It doesn't really matter, I don't care if they are monkeys, Buddhists, Christians, or worship the Greek gods. Get the point? It's not a war against Muslims. And any residual animosity created against innocent Muslims in general can only be blamed on the fools who do evil things in the name of Islam.

Speaking of all the politically correct stuff, reverse discrimination etc. It's certainly happening. It's politically correct for minorities to make racist jokes and say racist things and form racist organizations, but not white folks obviously. And the US is in a way becoming a dictatorship..ran by courts. Sucks when they overturn the will of the President, Congress, and people. An example of the crazyness is when a court upheld a class in a school to make the students say Muslim prayers because they were studying Muslim history. Somehow I don't believe if they were studying Christian history they would even be allowed to say a Christian prayer in school VOLUNTARILY let alone make it mandatory.