I have a few people who I have been talking to, and we were thinking about creating an INDEPENDENT site that would verify hosting sites. All of the staff members would not be employees of the hosting industry and the site would portray no favor towards any type of hosting or company.

This is still in the early developement stages, and we just want to know if people are interested in something along these lines. Please post your opinions on this (yes, even you UmBillyCord) and tell us what you think.

Also, we would need help with some programming and that would be coming later on.

This wont be a company, but a registered non-profit establishment, where hosting companies could become certified after passing a strict set of rules.

Thank you,

Jim

And unlimited bandwidth hosting companies are not allow? :D

We are still in the process, but anything that offers UNLIMITED anything would not be allowed (i.e. bandwidth, pop emails, etc.) Also, like UmBillyCord has told me many times, a set server resources limit per customer.

Alot more info to come.

Jim

I understand the space/bandwidth/pop etc coz i'm against all that crap myself but what about forwarders/aliases etc? I don't think any host DOESN'T offer unlimited of these?

Also, like UmBillyCord has told me many times, a set server resources limit per customer.

I never said that. You are the firm believer in set resource limits. I merely asked you what you thought about hard limits. Because if you said they were needed for unmetered host but not at the cgi/scripting level, then it would be hypocritical. But you stated *all* things should have hard limits. I also said that we may offer unmetered bandwidth on the Cogent pipe we have and in the terms we would provide a hard limit for resource use. This limit would also apply to CGI or any other resource intensive processes. I did not say other host should have to do the same. Each company does there own things and monitors resource use and levels different.

I also said this "certification" has been done before. Look at www.verihost.com. (They are run by AIT :eek: and ***** is a memeber :eek: :cartman: )

Originally posted by jimb
t to know if people are interested in something along these lines. Well, I can tell you people are definitely interested, as measured by the fact that this has been discussed here many times. Some examples:


http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=20287

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=20229

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=12366

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=10656

The unifying theme in those threads is that there are many agendas people will bring to the table when you try to start something like this. I think the way you suggest it is the best, if you can do it without any hosting company people or representatives involved. That seems unlikely, though, when you're asking for feedback in a place like this.

A big concern would be addressed if before bringing any hosting companies on board you fomulate and finalize the requirements for membership. Write a charter, assemble a board of directors (from, as you suggest, outside the industry) and allow only them to change the charter. Then open the door to membership. That way you isolate your process from the marketing and competitive agendas of the various hosts. As those threads show, a lot of people have different ideas about how this sort of thing should be done, and what the qualifications will be. Eliminate that controversy by establishing those qualifications first -- then let any company that agrees with you join the organization. Those that don't, won't... don't change for them.

Originally posted by Locutus
I understand the space/bandwidth/pop etc coz i'm against all that crap myself but what about forwarders/aliases etc? I don't think any host DOESN'T offer unlimited of these?

I don't think there should be limit for this. That will be the start of the end of hosting when host start offering "2 forwards and 4 alias"

Originally posted by one_web


I don't think there should be limit for this. That will be the start of the end of hosting when host start offering "2 forwards and 4 alias"

No, it would not be the end of hosting. It would be a more honest industry. If you really think about it, many industries have gone through this sort of slashing.

I am going to seriously start looking into a project like this.

Thanks for all the input, please keep it coming.

Jim

I have a question. Will unlimited forwarding email really cost you guys a lot like the unlimited space or unlimited bandwidth?

I think it will be the end of hosting when host start offering "2 forwards and 4 alias"

Originally posted by Quill
I have a question. Will unlimited forwarding email really cost you guys a lot like the unlimited space or unlimited bandwidth?

I think it will be the end of hosting when host start offering "2 forwards and 4 alias"

Will it hurt? Probably not, but is it a lie when saying unlimited yes. Could you really have 100,000,000 pop accounts on one $9.95/month hosting account? No, because each boxes name and permissions are stored in a binary file. But that binary file cannot be 10 GIGs because it would damange the machine.

Jim

Before this would become a true deal, I don't honestly beleive that one company should never validated by another company that also does hosting, it should be a group on the outside. Too many problems could arise. I would be interested though in what would be the criteria that would get you into this list, what would make you a valid host and what would make you an invald host other than stating you offer something unlimited.

I think more than certification we need to define the standards in this industry.
There has to be some common parameters for the industry where on can compare and only then does the certification part come in.
Our industry is such where we have guys who give space for free to guys who give it at a few 100 dollars.... :)
I've heard people say...... "why should i pay for anything on the net when I can get it free.... "

Have a great day :)

regards
amar

I can see limiting pop's thats all logical, but with forwarders you can allow a user to use as many as they need. Since they don't store that much information on the server its not relly a problem. I know that you can never offer unlimited something, but how else would you word, "really you can add as many as you want, but your are actually limited to around to a certain number because thats all the server and cpanel will keep in records."

Originally posted by The Prohacker
how else would you word, "really you can add as many as you want, but your are actually limited to around to a certain number because thats all the server and cpanel will keep in records."

Good point. In those cases, how about something like: "Free use of available resources (YMMV)"

Originally posted by bobcares
we need to define the standards in this industry.
There has to be some common parameters for the industry where on can compare and only then does the certification part come in.
Our industry is such where we have guys who give space for free to guys who give it at a few 100 dollars....


I agree I certain set of standards would be really great, unfortunatly how would you enforce these standards all it takes is one person to break to ruin the whole mess. There is no real way to enforce such a policy. I see a future though that is going to be defined within the next six to eight months I feel that the more 1 and two dollar host appear that hosting is going to come to a point where after they crash that more and more peoplewill begine to distrust hosting companies and will be looking to host their webpages of their dialup internet account :(

i know I know I am ranting

Originally posted by hostgold

more and more peoplewill begine to distrust hosting companies


This is why a solid organization (something like the BBB) would be something that people would come to trust. This would mean that if any hosting company wants customers, they would have to reform to the standards of what we put out. We would only certify hosts that offer our standards, and with enough word of mouth as well as internet/traditional advertising, we could be a driving force of the customer side of the hosting industry.

It would work so well, that it could clean up the industry of crappy hosts, and would reform all the other places.

Jim

I'm all for a certification and would apply, but I'm not sure how much good it will do. The problem is education: How many customers are going to consider it? Look at the unlimited bandwidth issue alone. Many people of course express their opinions, and sites exist like www.unlimband.com, but people continue to be shocked when they get stuck. There's just too many people who don't know any better. How do you reach out to them? Making non-members display a "Not a member of the BWHB" logo might work, but an absense of a "BWHB" logo just won't work, I feel. I'd love to be proven wrong of course.

Also, seperate issue, like someone else mentioned it may need to be handled by a unbiased group. I also feel the standards would need to be done in such a way that it doesn't discriminate against smaller hosts. Especially, any registration fees should be small if required at all, and number of customers should not need to be considered. (But perhaps service level standards, support standards, etc.? *shrug* Maybe some "best practices" type of recommendations).

Microsoft Certified Solution Provider comes to mind. Yeah, I think you need a MCP or two on staff, but mostly you just send a big check to Microsoft and they send you logos and a plaque. I'd hate for "BWHB" to end up something like that.

-Adam

(BWHB = Better Web Hosting Bureau)

but anything that offers UNLIMITED anything would not be allowed
That is not right. I agree that unlimited bandwidth and space would not be allowed but you mean to tell me if I offered unlimited POP email accounts I wouldn't be allowed. Now that is definatley not right.

Requirement or not, why not just offer like 50 or 100? Unlimited bandwidth is one thing. It's expensive, a very real cost, and it is not unusual for people to need a lot of it. POP3 boxes are practically free in comparison, but who really needs unlimited POP3 accounts? Are you comfortable with a user who has more than 100 POP3 accounts? If not, set your limit at 100 and avoid the unlimited issue altogether. I don't want any of my customers having hundreds of POP3 accounts because they're probably giving them away or selling them. And if they're selling them they can pay me more than 10 bucks. I think anyone is just asking for trouble offering unlimited anything. In my *opinion* anyone who uses more than a generous amount of bandwidth, space, mailboxes, whatever (ie wants "unlimited"), with no intention of paying more or discussing their plans with the host, is just out to cause trouble.

(I am really touchy tonight, I should walk away and come back tomorrow.)

To get people to recognize your organization logo is going to take a lot of time. BBB is not new, and many people know it, but still lots of people don't. So in order for your logo or button on the site to mean anything you'll have to have to be respected and trusted.

Originally posted by jimb


Will it hurt? Probably not, but is it a lie when saying unlimited yes. Could you really have 100,000,000 pop accounts on one $9.95/month hosting account? No, because each boxes name and permissions are stored in a binary file. But that binary file cannot be 10 GIGs because it would damange the machine.

Jim

Nah, you got it wrong, pal. I was talking about unlimited forwarding email, not unlimited pop account. Any comments? :D

Unmetered?

my mom is cool

To be a certified host, how would this work with the big boys and then the small boys (by the by big boys means own datacenter; small boys means has servers in a datacenter not owned by them), could you only become a certified host if you own a noc center, I see there being way to many variables to worry about, Maybe I am just not smart enough, but how would you go about this, what would be the set rules, what training would be required, in what fields would you and your staff be certified in, what would be the minimum time that your company would be active before you could become a member. Are you required to have a certain level of support.

Like I said something like this could go on forever

Already, we have come up with some basic guidelines that any host could fulfill.

What we were thinking was having a hosting cert for hosts who own their own data centers and a cert for shared hosting providers.

Basically, it would have two different set of rules that the host would have to comply with before they would get the certification and recongition.

Jim

Ok everyone dont take this personally. I'm going to put on my devils advocate hat here and try and point out some shortcomings I can see so far.

Lets say I have a hosting company that offers unlimited something (doesnt really matter what) and I apply to be a member of this industry association. Now you dont let me in because of the unlimited something. I sue your arse because of discrimination.

This also sounds like its bordering on something similar to price fixing. Saying that I can offer so much of such and such and so many so and sos. Try to broaden the views of the association. Look at service levels etc.

Originally posted by madmatty
Ok everyone dont take this personally. I'm going to put on my devils advocate hat here and try and point out some shortcomings I can see so far.

Lets say I have a hosting company that offers unlimited something (doesnt really matter what) and I apply to be a member of this industry association. Now you dont let me in because of the unlimited something. I sue your arse because of discrimination.

This also sounds like its bordering on something similar to price fixing. Saying that I can offer so much of such and such and so many so and sos. Try to broaden the views of the association. Look at service levels etc.


First of all,

1. So you offer unlimited bandwidth say. If we specificaly state that you will be admitted if you do not offer this, then its not descrimination, its simple hard facts. Its kinda like saying I want to get into the movie theaters but if you try and bring a backpack in they wont let you, because it clearly states in the rules that you cant.

2. Price fixing??? We arent telling what prices you have to offer, I never mentioned anything about pricing.

I will also look at service levels.

Jim