I was wondering if you guys/gals can give me an advice on this.. About a month ago, I'd received an email from Bxxlee saying that my website was infringing on their intellectual properties (ie website). So, I had my website redesigned and today, I received this from them..


Derek,

I appreciate the changes you have made thus far, but the defining
characteristics of your site (i.e. navigation structure, grouping of icons,
page layout, top and bottom curved borders, color arrangements, people image
placements, choice of demarcations, choice of content headings, labeling,
the plans charts with features section beneath it, etc.) still remain
striking and outstanding trademark and intellectual property infringements.
Please remove all such infringing content immediately. We can no longer
tolerate a copy of our site to be present on the Internet and in violation
of U.S. as well as international law. If the site remains posted as it is
past 9am EST, Friday November 30, then I will pass the matter to our
attorneys and notify your service and upstream providers, who I am sure do
not tolerate copyright infringements to be hosted on their networks. It is
rare that such steps have to be taken, but I can wait no longer for the
proper measures to be taken and the content to be removed. Please comply by
tomorrow morning.

Thank you,

Lee Griffith
VP & Director, Technical and Client Services
Bxxlee.com


With my website redesign and part of it being online, do you think his current claim holds some validity?? What should I do at this point?

My Site (http://www.intensehost.com)
Bxxlee.com (http://www.burlee.com)

Thanks in advance.

Well, I'm no design expert, but what exactly are they complaining about?

I can't think of any reason why would they be upset.

BTW, I like your site!

Dell Computer corp tried to pull the same stuff on me, as long as your content is original, I would not sweat it..I like ur site too!

cyansmoker - Well.. He says that my navigation structure, grouping of icons, page layout, top and bottom curved borders, color arrangements, people image placements, choice of demarcations, choice of content headings, labeling, the plans charts with features section beneath it, etc. are infringing Burlee's website.. Thanks for the comments.. Worked hard on this new design.. Glad you like it.

Dialuphost: So.. What did you do??? Thanks for the comments too!

I can't see anything either. Your style looks more like you got your creatives from addr.com. If they plan to follow through, I would quickly learn the DMCA to protect yourself and your site. I would prepare a counter notice incase your provider contacts you.

Learn more here -
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/legislation/dmca.pdf - PDF

http://www.tuxers.net/dmca/

Fist off, please realize, I am not a lawyer and this advise should not be taken as legally correct.

Over the past few years, I have worked with numerous companies and taken several classes relating to internet copyrights, trademarks and similar. As it stands, trademarks are broad. Copyrights are also powerful things but are much more limited.

I took a brief look at both of your sites and while Burlee.com is correct in saying your layouts are similar, you have used similar charts, feature tables and general layout similarities, I do not believe they have a valid claim to copyright infringement In order to infringe upon another site’s copyright you must literally take their content, their code or their layout. Burless.com is pointing to several attributes that you share in common. Things like rounded corners, charts, people and other design objects are not copyrighted unless you refer to the actual image. For example, I work with several scuba diving sites that also use similar elements throughout our site; suing you for stealing these elements from my layout is simply not feasible. In music when you alter a song, it becomes a new song, only direct derivative works are held under the same copyright and I would like to imagined hat in the Internet law, the same holds true.

The internet only has room for so many looks and color schemes. While yours may indeed by similar to Burlee.com’s, that does not mean you stole it from them. In the event that you ever did end up being sued, Burlee.com would most likely use your old layout to prove that you stole their look and when they first complained, you simply tried to change a few things. If you can prove that your layout was never meant to copy theirs then they will be unable to show bad faith, which is key to any trademark suit. As it stands, your current site is similar to thousands of other hosts and millions of other sites. Both f your companies are in the same field of business of obviously certain elements will be the same, dedicated hosting is dedicated hosting regardless of what trademark you own.

In order for Burlee.com to actually do anything, they are going to have to prove one of three things (for trademarks). A) that your site infringes on their mark by being confusingly similar, that they have a distinct mark and that you are in competition. While they may argue all of these points, it is well known that the Internet is not unlimited and that your sites, while similar are not confusingly so. A client coming to your site would hardly remember it as the Burlee.com website. B) that their mark is famous and that your site dilutes their mark by tarnishing or blurring it. Even if they can prove fame, your site should still be distinct enough that they cannot claim dilution. Their third argument is cybersquating but since you are not using their name, that would be almost impossible.

Copyright has a bit more leeway as they can argue that you took their layout and only slightly altered it. This may have been true with your first layout but it does not appear to be true any more.

Many companies often threatened or bully smaller companies around to try and get what they want without ever really thinking of going to court or filling suit. Burlee.com may choose otherwise but often it is just fear. You do however have to be prepared for a suit if you want to keep your site u p. As far as I can see, you have a few options. You can not respond and go on with life giving them nothing to work off of or you can ask them for specifics. Doing this will allow you to change what they want you to change but also admits fault and would look very bad in a future case. Lastly, you can change your entire look, make your site a new color, make sure each element is listed in a different order and with a different look than Burlee.com’s website. This of course costs lots of money and takes even more time.

What you do is up to you, just realize that your site and their site are uniquely different. No person is going to think that Intense Hosting is the same as Burlee.com hosting even if the colors are similar. So unless you really do have matching elements like the same logos, copied code or pages that identically match Burlee.com’s pages element by element ()or close to it), you aren’t breaking any law. If you were, the early hosts made back in 96 and 97 could have sued half the hosts out there fore taking their layout. Of course the question is, are you willing and able to spend what it COULD cost if you HAPPEN to be sued to defend your right.

Good luck

Please excuse the typos, as I didn’t spend much time reading over this.

Again, please note this is not legal advise but merely an opion

I think you are OK.

Mail them back and say that you have consulted an Intellectual Property attorney advising you that your site is not an infringement of theirs.

They can not claim copyright or any other Intellectual Property right for generic things like placement of icons (are they not also placed top - left - right - bottom etc.?) and of generic names such as "web hosting" "web hosting plans." How would other providers market their service if they can not use those words and where I am going to put my icons.... with billions of web pages out there, I am sure somebody does it similar.

So, don't worry. Make sure you do not use some text or images that are exactly like they have and mail them back. Keep a record of your correspondence.

Anton

PS. I had high grades in Intellectual Property class
:D

This is typical BS that the bigger companies pull..

Tell them to bring the lawsuit on!

You have nothing to worry about... (I am not a laywer)

But they are just throwing their balls and trying to make you suplicate to them..

Thats total BS... your site doesn't look anything like theirs...

Dell got a temporary restraining against my domain, and 24 hours later, the judge deemed their actions unappropiate and fined them $2500

Thanks for all your replies.. I guessd the first thing I'll do in the morning is contact my attorney about this situation to see what implications it will have on my company and any resolutions he can come up with if they aren't bluffing.

I don't see much similarity at all. They're sort of saying that your emu looks like their ostrich - they're the same shape, but that's about it.

If you want to see real coyright infringment, look at www.site5.com vs. www.hayescom.com. ;)

Your site really doesn't look much like theirs at all; you don't have the same nav. structure, the colors are different, you don't have the tabs at the top of the page... I mean.. I can't really see what they're talking about at all. My guess is that most other people feel the same way.

Just let them know that your design isn't based off theirs, and go from there. I'm sure their current website looked a little bit like some other site in existence when it was launched - that doesn't mean it was copied.

Matt

Wow.
WTH, everything is sooo alike.... Anyways.. Thanks for your comments..

I think http://www.futurequest.net looks more like their site then yours does. Matter of fact, you site doesn't look like theirs at all.

I do remember your old site, and it was strikingly the same design, but this new one does not reflect an ioda of thier design. Anyway just tell them to shove it up thier collective asses!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Derek,

I appreciate the changes you have made thus far, but the defining characteristics of your site (i.e. navigation structure, grouping of icons, page layout, top and bottom curved borders, color arrangements, people image placements, choice of demarcations, choice of content headings, labeling, the plans charts with features section beneath it, etc.) still remain
striking and outstanding trademark and intellectual property infringements. Please remove all such infringing content immediately. We can no longer tolerate a copy of our site to be present on the Internet and in violation of U.S. as well as international law. If the site remains posted as it is past 9am EST, Friday November 30, then I will pass the matter to our
attorneys and notify your service and upstream providers, who I am sure do not tolerate copyright infringements to be hosted on their networks. It is rare that such steps have to be taken, but I can wait no longer for the proper measures to be taken and the content to be removed. Please comply by tomorrow morning.

Thank you,

Lee Griffith
VP & Director, Technical and Client Services
Bxxlee.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Lee needs to be told that at this point, he needs to realize that there is no violation, and that any and all bogus claims made will be met with charges filed against his company for any and all fees that cost you and your company, plus time, aggrevation, (pain and suffering? :D), etc. I'd consult a lawyer to put in in the proper terms (and they will know what you can and can not say/claim), and let them contact Lee and his company directly. I advise you to cease direct communication with them.

navigation structure, grouping of icons,
page layout, top and bottom curved borders, color arrangements, people image
placements, choice of demarcations, choice of content headings, labeling,
the plans charts with features section beneath it
huh?!!! they copyrighted 'curved borders', 'people images' and even the 'plans charts' which is done in HTML and used by *so* many hosts? oh come on ...:D

LMAO :cartman: :)

Originally posted by Kiwi
huh?!!! they copyrighted 'curved borders', 'people images' and even the 'plans charts' which is done in HTML and used by *so* many hosts? oh come on ...:D
Actually Marc,

I think I read somewhere that Burlee held the copyright on "web design in general" - so they are well within their rights to demand that this site be taken down. :rolleyes:

Matt

Originally posted by Site5-Matt
If you want to see real coyright infringment, look at www.site5.com vs. www.hayescom.com. ;)

Your site really doesn't look much like theirs at all; you don't have the same nav. structure, the colors are different, you don't have the tabs at the top of the page... I mean.. I can't really see what they're talking about at all. My guess is that most other people feel the same way.

Just let them know that your design isn't based off theirs, and go from there. I'm sure their current website looked a little bit like some other site in existence when it was launched - that doesn't mean it was copied.

Matt

They still havent taken off your design?

I remember his old design too and did look the same, maybe they can get you that you made money with the old layout with Burlees copyrighted material. And why is Burlee banned in WHT?

Nevermind about the ban, I figured it the hard way.

How many hosts have their sites design copyrighted? I don't mean inffered copyrights. I mean the complete process of applying with U.S. Gov. Coypright offices. My guess would be less than 5%. It is a lot of trouble and expensive


Also if Matt is right every site in trouble...............Matt, where did you read it, was it posted on their site or maybe MAD magazine.....

No way is your site similar. Dont take any b/s from these guys.

I see no similarities..

They should be tracking down sites more like this http://www.vdhosting.com/ rather than waste their time with seemingly legitimate websites..

I agree that your site no longer looks at all like theirs.

However, be prepared for your attorney to recommend that you just meet the demands of burlee.

My brother consulted an attorney when IBM was treatening to abuse due process to bend his organization to their will in a very similar manner that seemed to have no legal basis.

The attorney felt it was in my brother's best interest to just go ahead and make IBM happy, since they have deep pockets.

A good attorney will hopefully attept to settle things out of court first, and recommend what is in your best interest. It sucks, but it is sometimes better to cave in.

Of course burlee doesn't have quite as deep pockets as IBM, I imagine.

Anyway, good luck. Let us know what happens and what the attorney says.

Don't worry about it mate. Your website can "look" exactly like his and you will be fine, as long as the content is different, which includes the images used to make the layout.

You can't copyright a design as its only an idea. You can only copyright the content which makes up the design, such as images etc.

Someone threatning you about your site layout is the same as if UPS threatned me for owning a brown van!!! lol :D

Before someone starts disagreeing with me, I would just like to point out that the reason I can make the above statements is because I've already been through this whole process.

I "based" (I use this term loosely) one of my gaming sites on another site as I like their layout, but ALL the content (images, text etc) where my own work. I used frames as well whereas the original site didn't.

The original site found out about my site and threatned me with a legal letter. But that's all it was. There was NOTHING he could do. Most companies will threaten you with an email, hoping that you will do as you are told because 90% of the people will change their site coz their scared. I replied stating that all content was my own, so he threatened me again.

My next reply was from my solicitor, and he backed down and apologized.

Was this enough? Hell no!!!! lol :D

I ended up sueing him back because a post in his forum was in breach of defamation of my site and hosted an illegal link to my site. Ended up going to court and, well, all I can say is his website is now shut down :D

you are a hero ;)

Just another reminder why not to get Locutus mad.. ;)

As for the current issue, I would get a lawyer and if it comes to it, counter sue. Most lawyers will charge a one time fee to write up a nice letter on their letterhead to the bone heads who think they are going to make a quick buck by harrassing another host.

Good luck,
raqworld

Lol you can sue for harassment :D

Burlee wont do anything, some of our previous sites looked very much like theres, as i indeed got alot of design ideas from their site, but nothing was of course copied, anyhow to make a long story short, they threatened us on 2 different occasions. I laughed at them... never heard back.... Oddly enough thier support department was the ones sending out the threats... if their so concerned why isnt their management involved...