well, for anyone who is a fan of alabanza, leave as soon as you can. i know that they couldn't even come through with the severence pay that was promised, in writing, to the workers they laid off.

there are lawsuits for breech of contract right now coming in from all angles, and the ex-alabanians can't lose, it's in writing. if you stay on, all you might have is a contract and a liquidated company

i saw a post someone put that said they think alabanza is having financial problems. well, lets put it this way, they aquired a CFO (certified financial officer) days before the layoffs. He knew what was up. they have no cash flow.

i really feel sorry for the company, they were good people, but not smart business people.

~guest

Rumor mongering does no one any good. Although I am not as impressed by Alabanza as I once was, I don't feel the need to spread FUD about their business. The contract issue has been discussed before - at this very site, in fact. The fact is that even though people can (and will) find lawyers who tell them it's a slam dunk to sue for breach of contract on this, any competent lawyer on the other side will point out the wide wiggle room built in - as usual, favoring the company, since that's the whole point of them anyhow. Alabanza's bad publicity is their own fault, but I certainly can't fault them for protecting their own interests.

If there are indeed any lawsuits pending or filed against Alabanza, why don't you find out their numbers and post them here? After all, it is public record. Or are you simply repeating what you've read elsewhere, with the same lack of detail? I, for one, would be interested to see the language presented by the complainant in any formal suit.

By the way, CFO stands for Chief Financial Officer - that is, the person who creates the strategic plan for finances in a company. If you think they have no cash flow, you are sadly mistaken. While there are plenty of customers who left, there are still more that stayed. What Alabanza chooses to do with that cash flow remains to be seen.

thank you for your thoughts.

side note: i am in my fourth month of preparation for my CPA so i have certified on my mind. end of side note

why are you so defensive?

the definition of CFO is my point, they did not have one until a few days before almost half the company was laid off, hmmm. 63 to be exact, and that is where cash flow comes in. companies who lay people off, should already know if they will be able to pay a severance, in this case, it was too quick...

new cfo
laid off people
severance promised and not paid

there was no time for the cfo to calculate the necessary sale of stock, by the owner, for the amount promised, and yes, most companies put in contracts something that keeps them free from problems, so severance contracts are written so that those being laid off feel a bit of a promise, and most companies don't have a problem with it because severance, if offered, is one thing that should not even scratch a company. if they can't pay up, there is something wrong internally.

there is nothing FUDDY in my post, all i wanted to do was make sure that the people who bought from alabanza know the situation.

just be careful, and don't assume.

~guest

after re-reading your post Annette,

i think you think i am talking about clients of alabanza when i speak of contracts, i hope that is not what your focus was, i am sure contracts were discussed before, but the contracts i am talking about are ones to ex-employees.

i think you were confused. it happens.

~guest

I'm always leery of people who haven't discovered the use of uppercase letters at the beginnings of sentences.

that is leerious...hmmm...i keep getting more leerious every moment!

ah well, i guess most people weren't around a few years ago when everything was lowercase.

i guess your right though, writing style defines knowledgebase, ah shoot, all that learning and a couple posts throws it away because an english major with a grammer concentration can't seem to read through to meaning.

ah well, good luck with communicating with the people around the world!

~guest :-)

Well I was thinking that Annette might have been thinking it was the customer's and not the employees, but aside from that... I'm not sure it changes anything she said though. Most of it still holds true. Nothing bad, just that if you had a server at some company and someone posted as "guest" and told you all this about the company where your server was, you'd be a bit errrr... "ok".

If one is unable to absorb and use basic elements of the spelling, punctuation, grammar and style of their primary language, it sheds a jaundiced light on that person's critical faculties otherwise.

Incidentally, I'm not an English major; nor even born to this language. My native language is Russian.

Guest,

As far as I can tell Annette's only asking if you've seen details of the legal cases and if so, to post them here so that we can further dissect them and have a healthy discussion. To have a discussion on a topic is one thing, to have proof/evidence to back up your views is another.

(note : I am not associated in anyway with Alabanza, simply an interested observer sitting on the sidelines)

Spreading unsubstantiated rumors is a great way to ruin a company, and a common tactic used in doing so.

Show me the proof.

Because the original message was unclear, I was indeed referring to customers. I am not defensive at all about your post - why on earth would I be, after all? Alabanza certainly doesn't pay me anything, and my only connection to them are the servers that we lease.

However, the general thrust of my message remains the same: attempting to spread rumors about a company (any company) is met, by me at least, with hard questions. Where are these lawsuits? What is the source of this information? Do you see the problem? Anonymous postings do not impress me, even if, in the end, they turn out to have truth in them.

In defense of "Anon Guest", I have been informed by very reliable sources that they are indeed having cashflow problems, 60+ employees were fired, and they are re-considering virtual hosting to help remedy the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if Verio or Micron bought them out. That way, Alabanza could focus on what they really want to do...license software.

--Scotto

[Edited by Scotto on 10-26-2000 at 10:53 PM]

I am sorry but so far here I see nothing but 'I heard, I saw, I think' kind of information. I am someone that enjoy reading well documented sources.

On the other hadn I do not appreciate people that answer to a non-well document text by pointing that the text was not well written. In no way does the quality of the text or it's format impact of the veracity of it.

Try to lower that agresivness level you have in you... it does no good, impress no one, serves no one.

I have no real opinion on Alabanza. I only heard from them on this message board for the first time, went to their site once, saw good comments and saw them fall. I seriously have no idea if they are going to do any good in the future or not... but one thing is sure. If they go down, we will go up.

This is normal business, it's the way it is. Once you reach a top, it doesn't mean you'll stay there... and you don't knwo if you'll ever reach the top anyway :)

Alabanza ... how can they be in financial trouble ?? .. they have a S&^%Load of servers that they charge 2x as much as everytbody else.. they are making a killing ... how can they leit it slide like this ? (Is any of the coments are true afcorse)

i am suprised no one has caught on yet, think now...

why would someone come on to a hosting forum, use the name guest, try to inform, and give very specific information. now after what i just wrote, go re-read my messages

if you can't get that one...i don't want more people to be taken by bad business.

the product is not bad has never been bad, and yes will go out in a box as soon as possible to cover expenses (God willing)

now after what i just wrote...

Severence is not being paid and it was promissed. that is the highest priority for this company, and the lowest in most companies because most companies have more than enough money. that's why severence is offered, business' don't have to do it.

it has nothing to do about the product, spelling, grammer, or the great people who work there and the great man who owns it, simply poor business, and it is going to bite them in the back and it is so sad.

if you want to take what i say as speculation, fine, if i can get a hold of numbers, all the clients i could reach will have them, they are public info.

take care and good night

it's cool that this has been a good discussion, other than the side note, but i guess there is always one in these things. i didn't think it would be interesting because i thought most people would have known and already been bored of the situation

~guest

oh and sorry about the grammer, try and see through it, please, it's late and i am tired...Good Night

why would someone come on to a hosting forum, use the name guest, try to inform, and give very specific informationWell first of all, some people think they can post anonymously and get away with saying anything - not so.

What you provided was very basic information and not at all specific. Where are the names, dates, places?

Your post reminds me of a situation last year, when a "guest" tried making negative posts about a company on a public Bulletin Board. Turned out, this person was trying to bring down the stock price... so "they" could buy it at lower prices! They are now serving a jail term. Alabanza is not yet a publicly traded company, but then we've heard the "talk" about that also.

Methinks the "guest" might want to stop by The Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org/) for a bit of reading. A Florida appeals court has recently declared that the identities of 8 people, who posted "anonymous" defamatory messages about Erik Hvide, the former CEO of Hvide Marine Inc, must be divulged. This is so that they can be charged and possible face jail time.

Now that Sir, is specific and detailed information.

An excellent point, Rob!

It appears that, shortly, posting unsubstantiated defamatory material under the cover of anonymity may be about as effective in avoiding just retribution as stealing cars whilst providing the arresting officer with a false name when caught... lol.

All I can say is, ouch.

You been stealing cars again, BC?

Who, me? :eek: Nawwwwwwww...... That was mah twin ;)

(seriously, anyone want a 1995 Hyundai Excel Sprint? Goin' cheeeep... ;))

Does it seem somehow appropriate that a thread devoted to avoiding Alabanza has degenerated into a commercial for a used Hyundai?

used Hyndai ?? I tought it was a Honda

I once had a Honda I nicknamed Wanda. :-)

I wish all of you would avoid such weighty matters so early in the day. I'm just not up to this yet.

etLux, give your power supply another shot of potato water. That'll get you going!

But seriously, I don't necessarily believe Guests's posts, but I read nothing defamatory in them. To the contrary, he overtly praised Alabanza, its leadership and its employees. If anything, he sounded almost heartbroken. The scenario he describes sounds all too familiar to me.

I once worked for a wonderful company that did absolutely everything right except manage its money. It sank like a stone after a few short, but brilliant years. At the last minute it hired a "turn-around artist" (i.e., CFO) to try to bring things to an orderly close. Everything worked out in the end (barely), but I was left, well. . . heartbroken. So, his remarks don't sound like criticism or negativism. They sound more like a requiem.

As for rumors, well, everybody loves 'em. Especially business. Wall Street is practically fueled by rumor, speculation, "unnamed sources" and wishful thinking.



[Edited by alchiba on 10-27-2000 at 09:26 AM]

Originally posted by guest
well, for anyone who is a fan of alabanza, leave as soon as you can. i know that they couldn't even come through with the severence pay that was promised, in writing, to the workers they laid off.

there are lawsuits for breech of contract right now coming in from all angles, and the ex-alabanians can't lose, it's in writing. if you stay on, all you might have is a contract and a liquidated company


That sounds both defamatory and unsubstantiated to me; and I note that this party has not returned with factual support for his allegations.

[Edited by etLux on 10-27-2000 at 09:34 AM]

oh man honda and wanda and wow do things take off,

well, anyway, that is why i said if what i said is speculation to you, fine.

and since no one could figure it out, the reason i put guest is because it makes it easier to weed out a member named guest who hasn't participated in a while on the board. (i think) i just wanted to make it easier on the people who control this thing, because i don't ussually have time to do things like this.

but, after so many answers to this thing and hearing different peoples views, i thought of a question that will be a fun question for everyone, because i have changed my thinking on the subject.

so what was one will now be two (in regards to starting one of these things)

thanks everyone for participating!

~guest
~

Uh... huh?

I don't want to be perceived as defending those posts. I said I don't believe them and I certainly hope they're untrue. Guests' remarks were most certainly unsubstantiated. That's what makes them rumors. :-)

Originally posted by guest
oh man honda and wanda and wow do things take off

Maybe because no one is taking this topic very seriously. :-)

I understand your point of view, alchiba, and I certainly didn't mean to sound like I was villifying your honored self... lol.

Rumor-mongering like this can be incredibly damaging, however, and I'll bet it's brought down more than one innocent company over the years.

Well, I'm all doom and gloom today anyhow because I witnessed yet another World Series won by those blasted Yankees. Arrggh!

Into each rain some life must fall... lol.

See the thread on Power Supplies for a possible ameliorative.

How on Earth can it be a world series when only Americans enter? I never will quite get to grips with it.

good point on the "not taking it very seriously" part.

it's so sad, this company has the greatest of potential because it's values and character down through the company are awesome. fun, good, honest, caring people. the product is awesome.

they made tons of sales during the summer as someone pointed out in here already, they just forgot to balance the expenses.

i think one person in here has figured things out.

thanks for understanding what was written, Alchiba.

~guest

Terribly self-centered, isn't it? :-)

However, there are Canadian teams. Plus, a huge number of players are from outside the U.S.

That's because we Americans are incredibly ego-centric, KDA.

hey i don't mind conforming, actually i was wondering if the end did occur, so did the yanks actually finish it off?

~too lazy to click a button and find out for himself.

aka: guest

baseball ... what a bore ;) gimmmmmeeee soccer !!! .. any of my european friends with me on this one :)

Speaking of sports extravaganzas, don't miss the annual Polish Big Mushroom Hunt.

It starts soon, I believe.

This whole thing reminds me ostards sticking their head in the sand... or someone trying to throw sand in a well oiled machine.

Now... which is the good one... you pick. But I don't feel comfortable with all these semi-sarcastic comments, semi-profound, semi-insulting.

Either discuss the topic, either use the 'General Topic' button to talk about your car.

Originally posted by CRego3D
baseball ... what a bore ;) gimmmmmeeee soccer !!! .. any of my european friends with me on this one :)

I know, I know. Half my family lives "back home" in Europe and we definitely don't see eye-to-eye on sports. We agree to disagree. However, both sports have in common the drawback of having to invest hours of watching and waiting just for a 1-0 score. :-)

Originally posted by Félix C.Courtemanche
Either discuss the topic, either use the 'General Topic' button to talk about your car.
Sorry, Felix. At least I should have known better. For my part, I'm trying to redeem myself for having fallen for the troll that started the thread. Maybe the Mods should lock this down.

before they shut this down because the topic has swayed, i want to make sure that people know that...telling people to get away from a company is not a banned thing to say, people say it all the time, especially on these things.

nothing i said was trashing the company, if people don't care and just want to pick apart posts that's thier thing.

the guys who spoke of someone getting nailed for trashing a company for his personal gains, well first, there is no public stock in Alabanza, and second, there you are talking about a stupid man, there are tackful ways of saying things that keep you under contract, even if the other side is not keeping the contract true.

let's be honest, if any of you have figured out my point of view, you know i am going to be careful in my wording. there is much i would love to say, when i find out i can, you know i will.

thanks for participating

Ok guest.

So you were one of the employees laid off! And now your (p!$$ed) and are trying to warn everyone that Alabanza is going under. You use the false identity to protect yourself because the group of employees that were laid off are now under a gag order because of a pending lawsuit against the company. Well I have checked the public records and have not found any new cases pending against Alabanza. If this is true (which it may or may not be) has the case been filed yet? A simple yes or no would suffice.

"What once was one is now two"

Are we talking about a company split? Perhaps a software division and a hosting division? If so how is that possible if what you claim is in fact the truth?

The riddles are funny but are best left to Demon_Jester!!

X-treme

Wow, X-treme, you can actually decipher that post? I'd just called several embassies looking for a translator...

Alright, this thread is getting way out of hand (partly through my own fault). If we're gonna discuss other things, head to the General Convos forum and start a new thread. If we want to see a new Alabanza thread, then do so, but keep it civil, and on-topic this time.

Thread closed.