While this is mainly for hosts, it actually applies to everyone on the forum...

One common complaint we get (something that seems to generate lots of reported posts), is hosts bashing other hosts. What I mean by this is, hosts posting comments about their competitors, even small negative comments, when they themselves have had no experience with the host at all.

Besides just taking up posting space on the forum, it gives people an unjustified view of the other host's services, not to mention it reflects poorly on your company.

Sometimes, people say, "Well, we've gotten clients from them, so I know we are better." - but if that's the case then everyone is better than everyone else, as I'm sure everyone has lost a customer to another host. Even the defense, "Our customers have said..." doesn't wash well, as it is the customer that should be posting the comments, not the host.

Now, I'm not saying that members shouldn't post their experiences. I'm saying there should be less negative comments about other hosts, mainly by hosts, but overall by the entire forum. I'd also like to see some more positive experiences posted, as posting negative experiences only tell you what not to do.

I have to run so I can't finsish this, but that's just as well, as it is already too long. Let's just try to steer towards a more positive 2002.

Well said, Chicken my brother. Now, if you could only get hosts to stop recommending other hosts unless they've used that host, that would bring all this full circle.

Originally posted by Chicken
I'd also like to see some more positive experiences posted, as posting negative experiences only tell you what not to do.



I totally agree with you Chicken. But we (or at least me) then have to change our attitude towards posts that are positive. I feel that, if someone post a nice or flattering comment about a host ... the beasts are out biting the persons head off, accusing them of being the 'actual host' spamming the forum or being associated with them. On the other hand we need to be critical, otherwise there's no need for WHT, in my opinion.

Just my humble opinion . . .

I participated in some bashing about PCISD. Now even though I am a host I wasn't a year and a bit ago and I hosted multiple accounts with them. So since I have experience with them, can I bash them?

Originally posted by netsolutions
So since I have experience with them

Isn't it a bit old now though ;)

Later,
Douglas

I think Chicken is mainly targeting hosts that provide feedback against another host, even though they have not personally used the service. And I've been guilty of this once or twice I'm sure.

His main goal and I agree is negative feedback needs to come from people who know first-hand, and also that we need more positive feedback from first-hand accounts. The trouble will always be that people just don't run out and tell the world about stuff until something's wrong. But I think hosts are more or less supposed to stay out of individual company discussions (or "watch" :) ) and be active in support questions, things like that, or the designated forums for otherwise.

You know, I'm not perfect, but that is where I would like to see the community here go and I think it's in sync with the moderators.

http://www.adamellsworth.com/images/wht.gif
Let's all get along! :D

Chicken wants this to be a fun forum where everybody can have an honest cool chat... :)
It should be a place where we can know more about the industry and the various hosts...

I guess he is right. We must improve this wonderful forum... :)

Have a great day :)

Regards
Amar

Yes, netsoloutions, in my opinion you can bash them as much as you want. But why? It's the general attitude that needs to change, not the fact that some are allowed to bash and some are not. I agree though, that hosts should be more careful bashing other hosts, beacuse of obvious reasons.

I wonder if it's a benefit for a host to be represented in this forum. I mean, yes there's a lot of small hosts and some larger like tera-byte, but you don't see for example rackspace or verio in here posting (at least not what I know) and you may say that it's because they are so succesful or whatever, but I think they have figured out that with all this bashing, they're better of not to be represented. And that's a shame in my opinion. Just look at HostRocket! If you came here as a newbie I don't think you'd choose them. As far as I know they have +9000 customers. They must be doing something right!

There are many host who read this forum but do not post in the advertising forum and do rare posts on the other forums for one reason: bashing.

Originally posted by getweb
And I've been guilty of this once or twice I'm sure.
As you probably can figure out, I have posted a few times here myself, and I couldn't guarantee that I haven't even done this myself. The past is the past. I'm talking about the future, from here on out. Even if one person stops and decides not to post a negative comment, well, then it might not be sending a man to the moon, but it is one less negative comment we all have to read. :D

As for old experiences, well I think in a perfect world, posts would be quantified and qualified a bit more, so that you get a better idea. If you still feel the information you have is pertinent, then by all means post it to help others.

An example...

I was actually a BurstNET client. Betcha didn't know that, eh? Well, I choose not to post my experiences mainly because it was about 2 years ago, they were at VDI, and I feel that my experiences with them really have no relevance today and people need to hear comments from current clients (at least clients who have used them in the past 6 months).

Judgement call on that one, and I'd say that overall, members at WHT are rather intelligent group and have enough brain power to make these choices.
Originally posted by Jonah
I totally agree with you Chicken. But we (or at least me) then have to change our attitude towards posts that are positive. I feel that, if someone post a nice or flattering comment about a host ... the beasts are out biting the persons head off, accusing them of being the 'actual host' spamming the forum or being associated with them.
This is sadly due to a rather large percentage of disturbing self-promotion that happens here (which is removed ASAP), despite the fact that we provide free advertising forums, which are well seen. To be honest, posting on the forum doesn't do much to stop it and the best thing members can do is report the post as suspicious and we'll have a look. We don't mind looking into it, and I can email the host to see if the IPs match on the return email.

We do appreciate the reports (some members apologize for reporting and bothering us!). We might not nab every company that does this, but I can tell you that I've personally cleaned a good number of posts off the forum and the board is about as clean as we can get it. Your help is always welcome.

Chicken,

I agree with you completely ... And I also have done some in the past. What I have in mind might be a bit different than what you just brought up. I am wonderring, how if some host come in here and give false advertisement on their services/products and/or give misleading information to the potential clients ... How are we supposed to do in this situation? I am trying hard (and believe, me, very hard) to be honest in every aspect and it's just sometimes piss me off seeing some hosts trying to mislead a potential (and probably clueless) clients ...

What do you think we should do? Shouldn't we take a proactive measures to protect other (probably clueless) clients and educate them instead?

cheers,
:beer:

I heard "Burst.net" has been mentioned in this post :) ... Not only that, but also *****, actually ... Many people have never used *****, but they are also anti ***** :) What do you think about that guys? As for me, I was with ***** for about 3 months on their reseller plan (never sold one account). I never had any problem with *****, could actually go through their tech support on the phone (everytime I try, though sometimes I must wait longer), never experienced any down time (or at least, never noticed any), and best of all: never got billed (now, this is surprising :) ), not even once during that three months ..

But due to some people commenting about ***** here--be it other hosts or just other members--most of whom probably never was a client of *****, I started to get bias and against ***** and start to give comments against *****, although my personaly experience itself is actually not that bad at all ... Same goes with Burst.net ... I become aware about them, sometimes have a distrust feeling about them, also because of the many negative postings I read here, most of them are from people that never actually use Burst's service (most actualy just hate the way Sean talks--although I have found other host that have not much different tone than Sean's yet nobody seems to care about it and even praises his company most of the times).

BTW, I have direct personal negativeexperiences with one or two hosts here that people will praise/recommend in any way they can. That makes me wonder, if I post my experience, will people read it/respond to it in objective manner at all? Probably not ...

What I need is the ability to judge a potential host as objective as I can, without reading all irrelevant bashing/praises from other people ... I do really hope if we can come up with solutions here ... :)

cheers,
:beer:

I agree, and I can imagine how difficult it must be for the moderators to be 100% sure that a post is spam. All a host has to do, is use some proxies, sign-up a couple of usernames, and then start a discussion that favours a host. Ofcourse the numbers of posts gives you an idea, but what should we do if we really can't tell if someone is spamming? Not reply, let it be unanswered?

Instead of just bashing where everyone goes:
:eek: :puke: :puke: :sickface: :sickface: :spam: :spam:

We just ignore the post - avoiding the negative tone! on the other hand as I said earlier in this post, if we are not being critical, there's no need for WHT!

<< but you don't see for example rackspace or verio in here posting (at least not what I know) and you may say that it's because they are so succesful or whatever, but I think they have >>

They dont post, but they do read here, I know that for a fact :)


BTW, DKBHOSTING Sucks, I dont know from experience, but they just suck.

When I found WHT (almost a year - Gosh!) I almost signed up as a reseller with *****. I learned as a newbie that when it comes to ***** - DON'T TOUCH THEM! And I still think that, though I have never been with them, talked to anyone from *****. I only got that information from WHT. Now, Im passing that along to new members. Should I do that? I don't know. If you haven't been with ***** and a newbie came along and asked you about going with *****, what would you say? I think it all comes down to being as positive and objective as possible, what Chicken also is asking us to be.

Originally posted by Jonah
if someone post a nice or flattering comment about a host ... the beasts are out biting the persons head off, accusing them of being the 'actual host' spamming the forum or being associated with them.

It actually seems to be quite rare that it is in fact a client posting it.

Have you not noticed that they usually only have the one post saying something good about a host, just at the absolute perfect time, and never having a website listed in their profile?
And rarely if ever post twice in the same thread?


I for one can see why that would raise some eyebrows.

If that happens just don't post if you don't know. If you really need to post then tell them to do a search or link them to the search. My own rule here is "If you don't know then Shut the F Up" the reason for that is because I know how rumors can hurt a company. And I also feel bad for BurstNet because they get bashed every day. You just have to make the name of your thread "BurstNet" and you will have a million views in less then a minute. If the thread is about something bad you will get a 7 page thread and 6.5 pages of the thread are post of people that haven't even looked at their site before. If the thread is about something good then you get one post if you are lucky. I guess it’s because people are afraid of all the people that will then bash them if they say something good about BurstNet. I know that I some times have not posted something good about them because then you will have all these people say that you work for them.

I think that WHT has its moment against a company yesterday it was ***** today is BurstNet tomorrow I don't know but I hope its not me...

Originally posted by dektong
I am wonderring, how if some host come in here and give false advertisement on their services/products and/or give misleading information to the potential clients ... How are we supposed to do in this situation? I am trying hard (and believe, me, very hard) to be honest in every aspect and it's just sometimes piss me off seeing some hosts trying to mislead a potential (and probably clueless) clients ...

What do you think we should do?
I'm not entirely sure of the exact situation you are talking about. False or misleading ads (if this is specifically what you mean) should be reported and they will be removed. Any examples?

Originally posted by dektong
I never had any problem with *****, could actually go through their tech support on the phone (everytime I try, though sometimes I must wait longer), never experienced any down time (or at least, never noticed any)...

BTW, I have direct personal negativeexperiences with one or two hosts here that people will praise/recommend in any way they can. That makes me wonder, if I post my experience, will people read it/respond to it in objective manner at all? Probably not ...

One thing people have to realize is that one person might have a great experience with a host, while another might have (what they consider) a terrible experience, and vice versa. Some of this might be due to personal expectations, or possibly just a bad week for that host, etc.

When someone asks, "How is abcdhost?" - all experiences should be posted, ideally backed up by things such as, appox. date you were with them, for how long, what happened, etc. (not just, "They suck, stay away!).

When someone posts a problem they are having, I've seen people post to the defense of the host ("We usae them and they are great!"), which usually has nothing to do with the thread. I can see it being extremely pertinent if, for example, the person is complaining about emails sent to support that were never answered and you have sent emails to support during the same time with no problems. This might tell the person posting that it might be a problem on their end.

As I've mentioned before, this happens the other way around as well. People post positive comments and others post negative experiences, as if that has any relevance to the thread (it usually doesn't). No one is 'right' or 'wrong' it is just your personal experience, nothing more, nothing less.

The fewer the amount of details supplied in the post, the less I care about what is posted. The detailed posts which explain the problem from the start ("I got a server from abcdhost 3 months ago and during that time this happened, that happened...") provide a more complete picture of the problem and the exact situation.

Originally posted by Jonah
I agree, and I can imagine how difficult it must be for the moderators to be 100% sure that a post is spam. ... but what should we do if we really can't tell if someone is spamming? Not reply, let it be unanswered?
Yeah, just report it. If you see a host that has been banned or the URL blocked, it is because I am convinced, without a doubt, that they have promoted themselves. If I am not 100% convinced, I give them the benefit of the doubt and we watch it and wait until they slip up.

When I ban or censor a host, I try to post a somewhat detailed explantion of why they were banned/blocked in the admin forum with all of the evidence.