Hello.

Is there anything like Ubersmith but free?

Thanks.

You'd think I'd know this for sure as they sponsor the forum, heh, but errr, I don't... *but* Ubersmith either is (or was?) free for a certian number of packages/clients/something (???), email them and ask to be sure.

Right... on ubersmith's website it says it's free for up to 30 packages.... but what does pagages mean? Is that customers or web hosting packages? I'm a little confused about that as well.

From what I gather package = account.

Say customer A has one account that's one package

Say customer A has two accounts then that's two packages

Say Customer A and B have three accounts each, then that's 6 packages.

Accounts appear to be things like domains, registrations, and whatever else is split into different things. Someone who uses it will be able to clarify better no doubt.

Greg Moore

That seems familiar, I think Felix220 attempted to clarify this once before in the ad forums, *somewhere*, though maybe it was even Greg last time as well.

Hello.

Its upto 30 webhosting plans for free.

But does anyone know any free ones as I don't want to switch systems after reaching the 30 package limit

Ubersmith is being offered nicely in this deal, IMHO , by the way, you get what you pay for. You want to use top notch products but you do not want to pay. Where in this world can you get such things ? Would you come out with a top notch product and let us all use for free?

There is not huge setup or licensing fee for Ubersmith. I would say it's very affordable for newbies.

Take into consideration that it's $99 per month to start (for < 2000 packages). That's about $1200 per year ($6,000 if over 2,000 packages). For many webhosting comps. just starting out, that's too pricy.

You can hire an experienced Perl or PHP programmer to design a similar system (with all its features) for much less than $1200. It's really not that hard to create such a system (if you know what you're doing).


These features aren't worth $99+ per month..

1) clients can view account status and history (simple)
2) automatic invoice creation (simple)
3) automatic package renewal and billing (simple)
4) consolidated periodic billing (simple)
5) credit card integration (simple to do... at least with my cc system)
6) Support and Customer Relationship Manager (There are some free ticketing programs floating around... not sure how they compare though)


I just might create one of these systems and charge like $5 per month just to piss Ubersmith off.

Hello.

I looked on cgi-resources but couldn't find a descent free one.

Any ideas?

Aloha

well just for fun ;)

Linux is a better system out there than windows ??
yet it is free adn everyone loves to bitch at windows
yet which one is on most of the desktops ???
just because you can do it for cheaper does not mean anything ???

but go for it and get it marketed ya might make some money :)

there will be underline things in there that will trip you up a bit
not saying it is not doable but I dont think for $1200 it can be done ???



Originally posted by archangel777
Take into consideration that it's $99 per month to start (for < 2000 packages). That's about $1200 per year ($6,000 if over 2,000 packages). For many webhosting comps. just starting out, that's too pricy.

You can hire an experienced Perl or PHP programmer to design a similar system (with all its features) for much less than $1200. It's really not that hard to create such a system (if you know what you're doing).


These features aren't worth $99+ per month..

1) clients can view account status and history (simple)
2) automatic invoice creation (simple)
3) automatic package renewal and billing (simple)
4) consolidated periodic billing (simple)
5) credit card integration (simple to do... at least with my cc system)
6) Support and Customer Relationship Manager (There are some free ticketing programs floating around... not sure how they compare though)


I just might create one of these systems and charge like $5 per month just to piss Ubersmith off.

"Linux is a better system out there than windows ??
yet it is free adn everyone loves to bitch at windows
yet which one is on most of the desktops ???
just because you can do it for cheaper does not mean anything ???"



Windows is a better desktop, but which "free" one is more stable and most widely used as a server? Sometimes free is better.



"but go for it and get it marketed ya might make some money

there will be underline things in there that will trip you up a bit
not saying it is not doable but I dont think for $1200 it can be done ???"



You can hire a pretty descent programmer (5+ years experience) for $80 an hour. Lets say this takes about 10 hours total to create (which is a reasonable amount of time). That's $800.00. If you plan on sticking to the webhosting biz for awhile, this will pay for itself in in less than a year.

Aloha
true just fliping the coin over if you will ;)
making ya go hmmmm

kinda like saying I double dare ya ;)
hehehee

I think the custom sys still might come out more but it might do exactly what ya want which would be worth it ;)

Just going back to the original question you asked "Is there anything like Ubersmith but free?"

Frankley I think if you are going to do proper web hosting and proper billing then you have to invest the money into proper billing like Ubersmith. It's only $100 a month for upto 2000 packages. I think that's more then worth it.

Really? That would be very interesting.

I don't think you have a realistic view of the process involved in creating software like ubersmith. We do our development internally, and I can tell you that we have spent a lot more than $1200 in development costs (try adding a few more zeros :-)

At the moment, ubersmith is the choice of hundreds of web hosts, and is pushing thousands of transactions every day.

It costs us _well_ over $5 to host an ubersmith instance. But then again, I wish you all the best in your efforts.

Maybe we can fly you up to Voxel to educate us how we can get our costs so low :)


I just might create one of these systems and charge like $5 per month just to piss Ubersmith off.

Ouch!! I think archangel777 was shutdown :)

If that's all the features you have on the software, I think my view is realistic in terms of the simplicity of making the features available. However, because of the time you have spent on developing the software, it would most likely be more stable than the result of a professional 10 hour scripting job.

You may have spent several hundred hours thinking of all the features to include, programming, getting rid of bugs, patching up security holes, designing, setting up the servers, tech support, etc., but others who try to duplicate the functions of the software, don't necessarily have to spend as much time doing so... unless they're planning on being the next Ubersmith. They can simply create the script (try to duplicate the outlined features of similar programs), and sell it or give it away for free without worrying about hosting it on their own servers.

Sure, the program probably won't be bug-free or as stable at first. But given time, it will be.

About the $5... I wasn't thinking in lines of making a profit. If I wanted to make a profit, I sure would charge a whole lot more (like $99 per month).

Anyways, to prove my point, once we get started on our webhosting biz, I will create such a program that offers most (if not all) of Ubersmith's features.

"Ouch!! I think archangel777 was shutdown "

Not quite. Archangel777 doesn't get shutdown. After I'm done with my current projects and get the hosting biz started, I'll start on my 10 hour Ubersmith project.

Originally posted by archangel777
About the $5... I wasn't thinking in lines of making a profit. If I wanted to make a profit, I sure would charge a whole lot more (like $99 per month).

Oh, right. It _is_ almost 2002, right? Profitability is back in fashion? :)

Try duplicating each ubersmith environment on two geographically diverse servers, with dedicated credit card processing appliances, offering phone and email support, almost weekly updates, and weekly regression testing for $5 per month. If you can do it without making a loss (let alone a profit), hats off to you.


Anyways, to prove my point, once we get started on our webhosting biz, I will create such a program that offers most (if not all) of Ubersmith's features. [/B]

As for your original estimate (which you confirmed in your last post) of 10 hours of time, I still think you're waaaaay off base (even for a straight duplication effort)

Voxel is not really going after the host who can't see the value propisition that is offered by our product. For most people, a $99 monthly expense isn't a 'lot' of money at all. I think that this board attracts a lot of less mature and younger hosts (and I don't mean for that to sound as a bad thing neccesarily) who balk at that pricing. There are several large hosts who frequent this board which will agree with me on this. (and who are paying the $499 per month 'enterprise' license).

Welcome to our world -- where we deal with larger hosts who have thousands of clients they are held accountable to and many employees who hold us accountable for. Support and Stability are extremely important to these companies. Our clients _definitely_ do their due diligence before signing with us, and I can tell you, that price is _rarely_ a factor. If anything, we will INCREASE our pricing shortly (although obviously, as per our contracts, existing clients will not be affected by price changes).

I respond to your posts because I find the language somewhat inflamtory, and your accusations and claims very confrontational. However, I truly wish you all the best, and I look forward to seeing your product when it debuts. Feel free to call or email me if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

Raj Dutt
Voxel dot Net, Inc.

Ubersmith is not within my range as well, but as someone else pointed out, http://www.modernbill.com/ could be an alternative. $70-$140 one time fee. I have no experience of it myself, but I ordered it a couple of minutes ago to try it out.

Not quite. Archangel777 doesn't get shutdown. After I'm done with my current projects and get the hosting biz started, I'll start on my 10 hour Ubersmith project.

No I would have to say you were shutdown. Look under our username. Under mine it says Junior Guru. Under yours it says Junior Guru Wannabe. Ya, that's what I thought.

"Oh, right. It _is_ almost 2002, right? Profitability is back in fashion?"


I don't believe any of my statements implied that I was in this to make a profit.... or that $5 per user would result in a profit.


"I respond to your posts because I find the language somewhat inflamtory, and your accusations and claims very confrontational. However, I truly wish you all the best, and I look forward to seeing your product when it debuts. Feel free to call or email me if you have any questions. "


I apologize for any inflamatory language I may have used. I'm sorry you take my statements as being "confrontational"... Perhaps I should be more considerate when posting. Anyways, I'll try and keep my mouth shut until the program is out.

"No I would have to say you were shutdown. Look under our username. Under mine it says Junior Guru. Under yours it says Junior Guru Wannabe. Ya, that's what I thought"


How old are you???

I was just playing around archangel777. If you go through these forms you will see I play a lot of jokes and have fun with people.

You know, I was going to add some fairly hot comments to this thread, but some things just speak for themselves.

archangel, put your money where your mouth is, and I'll shut up. You can start by telling us your plan for securely storing credit card information.

$1200 isn't even two weeks pay for a software engineer in the US of A.

Of course if you are a software engineer, then you probably don't have to pay yourself anything and can do it yourself for free (as long as you don't think your time is worth anything).

Anyway, I'm not trying to rip on archangel, I just think that the estimate was a little off. I think that it would probably take three weeks. :)

Anyway, we wrote our billing software so long ago that I don't remember how long it took to develop originally. But the hours for it to go from what it started at to what it is today is quite large.

Originally posted by bitserve
$1200 isn't even two weeks pay for a software engineer in the US of A.
None of the Software Engineers on my staff earn less than $60k a year. On a project like this, I'd likely put a Senior Engineer - so plan on $90-$100K. Do the math.
Of course if you are a software engineer, then you probably don't have to pay yourself anything and can do it yourself for free (as long as you don't think your time is worth anything).

Anyway, I'm not trying to rip on archangel, I just think that the estimate was a little off. I think that it would probably take three weeks. :)
Not likely, even with a fully developed functional specification. I'd schedule 6 weeks for the design and review stages, before anything other than a prototype was ready for review. Testing alone would take at least two weeks - with test plan development taking the first week, and rigorous system test taking the second.

Anyway, we wrote our billing software so long ago that I don't remember how long it took to develop originally. But the hours for it to go from what it started at to what it is today is quite large.
One of the major problems with most Internet software (not knowing anything about your system and not picking on you specifically) is it's written without being designed or even fully specified, resulting in hacked together bits of unsupportable and unextensible code. Today's young programmers think that they can whip up a couple thousand lines of PHP or Perl script without any thought to application design, ship it, and make their fortune. It doesn't work that way kids. The dot-bomb economy proved that.

Most of the code that I've written over the last 20 years is still in production, and still being successfully used every day by thousands of users. None of it suffered from that laughable Y2K design flaw - though much was written in the early 80s. People laughed at me then for coding in a manner that would last beyond the millenium - everyone knew that code only lasted 10 years after all. Yeah, right.

Software Engineering is not about hammering out code in 10 hours or less that sort-of works for a while until you change your mind or a customer thinks up something new to do with it. Software Engineering is about doing the right thing the first time, cost effectively and actually solving the real problem, and not the problem of the hour. How many Internet programs have you picked up and then dropped because they do 60% of what you need well, and cannot be made to do the 40% that would really make your business fly?

I would not use billing software that took 10 hours to develop. My work is my livelihood, and how I support my family. I plan to retire in the next 10 years, thank you. The last thing I want to do is risk my financial future on crappy software, written by some kid who thinks because he learned PHP and some SQL that he's a master programmer.

-t

Ohhhh my. Me thinks the folks at Yugo had the same thoughts?

I was kidding about the three weeks. :)

Although I could code it in three weeks.

Originally posted by bitserve
$1200 isn't even two weeks pay for a software engineer in the US of A.

Not even one week for a lot of them.

Throwing in my thoughts on writing a script versus writing an enterprise billing system, the difference in scale is immense.

In the world of corporate software development things move slowly. I spend a week designing a feature that I could hack out in two days if quality wasn't an issue. Then someone reviews my design. Why? So that we can be sure that we have a robust system. When coding a feature I often write as much code to check integrity and handle errors as I do to actually do real work. Large companies are happy to pay a lot of money for well-designed, reliable software.

-Joe

Let me remind u lads that MS Excel does the job pretty well until u reach around 500 clients. From then on U DO NEED SMTNG LIKE Ubersmith or ModernBill or whatever. Until that day just sit tight, write ur invoices manually and wait for a good software package to come out.

Also, about Ubersmith (never seen the product myself yet):

- It is VERY EXPENSIVE. Even if u can afford it. I just don't understand the monthly license thing. Bollocks. You make smtng, u sell it. THATS IT. It's not like they are providing service after it's been installed (if the DO - thanks, but No thAnx).

- Client support and customer management/billing should not be packaged as one product

- Multi-lingual support is not there. Or is it?

No billing/CRM system should be 100% WEB-BASED - TOO RISKY. ANYTHING CAN BE HACKED.



OUR CUSTOMERS AND THEIR RESURCES' SAFETY IS MY/OUR FIRST PRIORITY - so let's keep it offline



So... I am looking for smtng like US or MB but wid much less features (and offline = not web-based :). All I need is:

- Customer account management (paid period, account type, contact info, all that staff)
- Automatic e-mail notifications (wid ability to control the cron)

That's it. Anybody knows smtng like that?



PS It is always cheaper to buy somebody else's sowtware - to hell with development. PAIN. LOTS OF PAIN. LOTS OF TIME. NEVER PERFECT.

Pavlov--Ubersmith is a service; it exists on their servers for security purposes, and they perform regular updates. That is why there is a "lease" for it.

ModernBill, on the other hand, is somewhat less robust (from what I've seen), but is a "purchase" item--you give them the money, you get a script and a single license. Nice and simple. Plus free updates for 6 months, I believe.

For those of use who cannot afford to shell out major moolah for a billing service like Ubersmith, ModernBill is looking to be a very attractive option.

Hello hurtdidit!

What solution do you use?


Winnie [InfoDoma]

Winnie...right now, nothing! I haven't been able to make my mind up yet, but I am leaning toward ModernBill more and more. I don't have a very large budget at this point, so price is a concern, yet I don't want to sacrifice too many features...which is why ModernBill looks pretty attractive, I think!