FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From
1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never
attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333
per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never
attacked us. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975,
58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent . Bosnia never
attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple
occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has
liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put
nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,
and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We
lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year. Bush did all this abroad
while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.

Here Here!!!!

Bush is a HERO but people are too afraid of reality and have to much LOW-Self-esteem to admit the TRUTH!

I beg your pardon?

You call Iraq a liberated country?

I think I clearly emoted that in my post. I don't have to repeat myself to military haters like you.

The person from who you copy pasted this nonsense must have been a great history student *cough*.
Firstly Germany declared war on the US (December 11th, 1941) and then the historical errors in the copy pasted piece just go on and on...

In any event, you democrats are so party line orientated that your willing to let the country go down in order to look good in front of your friends.
Give it up and be your own person. I am just telling you this for your own good.

thaa? PaulTech which planet do you live on? I suggest you watch Discovery more often to realize some essential differences in warfare between WWII and every other later war before you go comparing casualties...

...and if you want me to go the way you started... Afghanistan NEVER attacked the US and Iraq NEVER attacked the US, but US did attack both of the countries...

...so Afghanistan was all about al Qaida, ok, so there are a bit less al Qaida cells in the world and there is a small number of Talibans in power...

...but what was the Iraq all about? WMD?!!! has anybody found any?!!! Bio weaponry?!!! Found any?!!! Nukes?!!! Found any?!!!

Let me tell you what it was all about... it was all about junior proving to his daddy that he's all grown up now, being a big man, he's gonna finish the job daddy couldn't see through... but weapons or no weapons it was attack on a sovereign country, it was an attack... no heroism, no morality, a simple attack!

...and what was it also about? ...it was about oil... about plenty of oil... the third biggest oil source in the world!!! ...so now, the Iraq oil is in the hands of American corporations and the good citizens of the USA can have a sound sleep, cause they buy oil four times cheaper than Europeans... ...I guess one has to keep competition advantage somehow, even if that means killing Iraqis and have one's soldiers killed, even if the peace has been declared long time ago....


Originally posted by Alvo
Here Here!!!!

Bush is a HERO but people are too afraid of reality and have to much LOW-Self-esteem to admit the TRUTH!

It would be ok, if he only knew how to spell it, HERO that is.

Airnine

I think Bush is doing the right thing. If he hadn't used the US world power to drive forward such attacks and dreams of world peace, we, Americans and others alike across the world would be living in fear of when / where next?

I back Bush on his decisions.

It would be ok, if he only knew how to spell it, HERO that is.


The war-hater takes a swing. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Has the baby not gotton his milk offering from his mommy Hillery today???

Don’t fall into the shmutz trap. It only works against what is good.
It's better to put on a tough image, a little, so the evilness settles down. Just like a strong server or host doesn't allow for errors or breakdowns.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38247

Kerry is just a slight bit better than the Bush administration anyway.
Anyway i guess facts aren't that important as tough macho language for someone who reads things by insightmag.com.

Originally posted by airnine
thaa? PaulTech which planet do you live on? I suggest you watch Discovery more often to realize some essential differences in warfare between WWII and every other later war before you go comparing casualties...

...and if you want me to go the way you started... Afghanistan NEVER attacked the US and Iraq NEVER attacked the US, but US did attack both of the countries...

...so Afghanistan was all about al Qaida, ok, so there are a bit less al Qaida cells in the world and there is a small number of Talibans in power...

...but what was the Iraq all about? WMD?!!! has anybody found any?!!! Bio weaponry?!!! Found any?!!! Nukes?!!! Found any?!!!

Let me tell you what it was all about... it was all about junior proving to his daddy that he's all grown up now, being a big man, he's gonna finish the job daddy couldn't see through... but weapons or no weapons it was attack on a sovereign country, it was an attack... no heroism, no morality, a simple attack!

...and what was it also about? ...it was about oil... about plenty of oil... the third biggest oil source in the world!!! ...so now, the Iraq oil is in the hands of American corporations and the good citizens of the USA can have a sound sleep, cause they buy oil four times cheaper than Europeans... ...I guess one has to keep competition advantage somehow, even if that means killing Iraqis and have one's soldiers killed, even if the peace has been declared long time ago....




It would be ok, if he only knew how to spell it, HERO that is.

Airnine

Excuess me sir, But I have two brothers currently fighting in Iraq, along with a sister in law. My dad served 28 years in the United States Navy, One brother in the Marines and one in the army. I am scared for their lifes every day they are there. I did not come up with thesse facts and I never presented them as facts, This peice was copy and pasted and I found it rather intresting. I do _not_ support this war at all, My brother once said

"Bush is using us like toy soliders, He does not seem to understand he is playing with human life"

Originally posted by Eric Cartman
Kerry is just a slight bit better than the Bush administration anyway.
Anyway i guess facts aren't that important as tough macho language for someone who reads things by insightmag.com.

OOOO. Another swing from the peanut gallery. You and your pot-smoking friends are pathetic. Why am I the only one going to insightmag.com. I was insulted several times in this thread as wel, especially this time by you.

Excuess me sir, But I have two brothers currently fighting in Iraq, along with a sister in law. My dad served 28 years in the United States Navy, One brother in the Marines and one in the army. I am scared for their lifes every day they are there. I did not come up with thesse facts and I never presented them as facts, This peice was copy and pasted and I found it rather intresting. I do _not_ support this war at all, My brother once said

"Bush is using us like toy soliders, He does not seem to understand he is playing with human life"

It's good to be concerned for your relatives but don't mix their work with your anti-war rhetoric I'm sure your brother really wouldn’t appreciate that.

If bush is making mistakes in the war then give constructive criticism. I constantly criticize the president but I don’t hate him and our military outright.

bush a hero.... lmfao

was that before or after he became a military deserter, or cut hazard duty pay, or maybe when he lied about wmd...

Heros , at the very least dont lie.

Oh ps, you can call me a military hater or a democrat, but this democrat proudly served his country =]

Originally posted by case
was that before or after he became a military deserter...

LOL ... Another feeble minded person blindly following whatever he hears or sees in the liberal media.

Just incase you didn't know ...

feeble = markedly lacking in strength

Originally posted by Alvo
OOOO. Another swing from the peanut gallery. You and your pot-smoking friends are pathetic.

could be that they smoke pot, i don't care (it ain't illegal here anyway), they don't do it around me anyway since i have astma

Originally posted by Alvo

Why am I the only one going to insightmag.com.
because most people don't like hearing empty rhetoric i guess...
http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/05/11/Politics/The-Insider.Reports.New.Tv.Smear-673525.shtml
stuff like that doesn't need any further comments

Originally posted by Alvo

I was insulted several times in this thread as wel, especially this time by you.

pot... kettle...

It doesn't bother me that our president is a fool, that he lied to the American people about WMD, that he used 9-11 finish his fathers dirty work in Iraq, that he went AWOL in his younger years, that he has a DUI record, that his records are "locked" away in his daddy's library, that he's only doing what he does to help his rich oil friends, that he ran 3 companies into bankrupt, that he can't pronouce words properly, that his favorite world is "hmm", or the fact that he's just an idiot.

What bothers me is that we're spending $4 billion a month on a country that will never be "free". They've already made it clear that they do not want to get along with the rest of the world and we will continue to need remain in Iraq.

What bothers me is that we aren't doing anything to capture Osama Bin laden. Infact, there was an article posted in my local paper indicating that the U.S. has MORE people working on keeping track of Fidel Castro and his actions (a dozen or so people) and only 4 people watching over Osama Bin Laden.

Why are our priorities mixed up? Why we are wasting time in Iraq?

And another thing, and this goes for both Republicans and Demos..

Just because SOMEONE disagrees with what Our President does, doesn't make us a "military hater" or "unpatriotic" and anyone who says just non-sense is a fool. We disagree with our president because we love our country an feel there are bigger fish to fry than Saddam.

Our OWN Country has BIG ISSUES and we continue to overlook such issues. For example, our voting system is extremely screwed up. Our education system sucks, health care sucks. There are so many poblems in the U.s. that $87 billion dollars could have fixed.

Originally posted by KIAHost
LOL ... Another feeble minded person blindly following whatever he hears or sees in the liberal media.

Being rude simply makes your reputation and credibility go down the tubes. Care to point out how the war in Iraq is being handled "liberally" by the media? If anything, the media is doing everything they can to NOT show us what a screw up Iraq is.

Originally posted by Alvo
It's good to be concerned for your relatives but don't mix their work with your anti-war rhetoric I'm sure your brother really wouldn’t appreciate that.

If bush is making mistakes in the war then give constructive criticism. I constantly criticize the president but I don’t hate him and our military outright.

I'm sorry but I am not "anti-war" I do not support the war, But I am not against it, as contradicting as that sounds I think it makes sense, Bush was put under alot of pressure I feel, There was a attack against the "home land" He had to do something, and he did.

Thanks

PaulTech, I don't get it. Your first post is pro-Bush, the second is against.

There was a attack against the "home land" He had to do something, and he did.


When was the last time Iraq attacked american "home land"? lol

Something about that term "Home Land" just sends shivers up my spine.

Someone needs to learn their history.

Originally posted by timechange.com
PaulTech, I don't get it. Your first post is pro-Bush, the second is against.

The first post was not so much mine as something I found intresting but no relative infomation to back it up, I thought you would also find it intresting

Germany was taking down country after country and he was millions in a short period of time. Neither Iraq or Afghan can claim this

Korean war. I believe it was wrong

Vietnam war. I believe it was wrong

Bosnia. How many people died in this? Last I heard they are doing pretty good compared to where they were at and what was happening

As for Bush being a Hero I have to disagree. He did not risk his life for his country when he had his chance. To say he is a hero is an insult to the tens of thousands of military men that have risked their lives and/or died so we can live in a free country.

Originally posted by JustinH
Care to point out how the war in Iraq is being handled "liberally" by the media?

I was primarily speaking about the comment that was quoted above.

A hero is someone who donates an organ to someone in need. A hero is a fire-fighter rescuing a family from a bruning building. A hero is someone cutting off all their hair so children with cancer can have hair. If Bush wants to be a hero, maybe he will leave his desk and do something other than give orders.

Commissioner Gordon is the hero. Batman is not. ;)

Bush/Cheney: chickenhawks.

Most of the terrorist came from Saudi Arabia. Yet the US did nothing about saudi arabia, but went after Iraq instead.

**HINT**
Pres. Bush is friends with the Prince of Saudi Arabia. Oil business connections.

**SARCASM**
Yeah, Bush is my hero.

Originally posted by airnine
thaa? PaulTech which planet do you live on? I suggest you watch Discovery more often to realize some essential differences in warfare between WWII and every other later war before you go comparing casualties...

...and if you want me to go the way you started... Afghanistan NEVER attacked the US and Iraq NEVER attacked the US, but US did attack both of the countries...

...so Afghanistan was all about al Qaida, ok, so there are a bit less al Qaida cells in the world and there is a small number of Talibans in power...

...but what was the Iraq all about? WMD?!!! has anybody found any?!!! Bio weaponry?!!! Found any?!!! Nukes?!!! Found any?!!!

Let me tell you what it was all about... it was all about junior proving to his daddy that he's all grown up now, being a big man, he's gonna finish the job daddy couldn't see through... but weapons or no weapons it was attack on a sovereign country, it was an attack... no heroism, no morality, a simple attack!

...and what was it also about? ...it was about oil... about plenty of oil... the third biggest oil source in the world!!! ...so now, the Iraq oil is in the hands of American corporations and the good citizens of the USA can have a sound sleep, cause they buy oil four times cheaper than Europeans... ...I guess one has to keep competition advantage somehow, even if that means killing Iraqis and have one's soldiers killed, even if the peace has been declared long time ago....




It would be ok, if he only knew how to spell it, HERO that is.

Airnine

I just wanted to point out a few facts you seem to have missed here.

Osama Bin Laden was an actual leader in Afgahnistan, he actually had a seat in the government.

Iraq attacked Kuwait and after we defeated Iraq in the Gulf War a set of rules was set up. Stuff like the no-fly zone, etc. etc., etc. Saddam broke these regulations often, which could have constituted military action at any time.

I agree this war was about oil.

-

Now here is my dilemma, how would have Al Gore acted? Like clinton and send a couple of cruise missles to blow up a couple of empty tents?

Bush has done a great Job fighting terrorism. He has done a great job on our economy. I also like his tax plan. I do not agree with his spending though and many other issues.

-

Here is the issue I'm facing in the upcoming election. I can vote Kerry, Bush, or for the libtertarian.

If I vote for Bush he will continue to take away American rights by trying to get the Patriot Act II passed and other acts like it passed. He will continue the war in Iraq and possibly start a very large war in the middle east.

I can vote for Kerry and have my taxes increase 10 fold. Kerry wants to tax everything that dosen't move. He wants to raise taxes on major corporations. If he does this it will kill the American economy as American companies will move overseas and so will the workers.

I could vote for the libertarian and show that I don't like either of the bastards, but he will have no chance of willing.

So my choice is war and less rights or high taxes and a crappy economy.

Originally posted by Eric Cartman
The person from who you copy pasted this nonsense must have been a great history student *cough*.
Firstly Germany declared war on the US (December 11th, 1941) and then the historical errors in the copy pasted piece just go on and on...

Just to add something the U.S. also declared war on Germany the same day.

The war-hater takes a swing. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Has the baby not gotton his milk offering from his mommy Hillery today???

First of all, if anyone is being partisan, it is you. I'd have to ask you if your beliefs are based on fact and principle, or solely on upbringing and your parent's beliefs. I would not doubt if you agree with everything your Republican politicians do simply because the word 'Republican' is attached to their label.

Secondly, you are trying to prove a point here, yet you misspell "Hillary".

dk2, if I was of voting age, I would have to agree. :)

I respectfully request that everyone here tone it down a bit. The personal attacks are not needed and are down right dispicable. We should be able to discuss this topic in a civil manner.

Originally posted by KIAHost
LOL ... Another feeble minded person blindly following whatever he hears or sees in the liberal media.

Just incase you didn't know ...

feeble = markedly lacking in strength

So im feeble minded because i have formulated my opinion on the information that has been presented and the lack of information thats been presented to support other wise?

I think it's kind of funny you have to resort to name calling...
Considering the government cant even locate Mr Bush's dd-214, Im proud of my honorable discharge =]

But hey, you have your own opinion. I never asked you to agree, but i would expect you to act like a business owner and adult before making childish comments.

Have a nice day kia =]

Originally posted by case
So im feeble minded because i have formulated my opinion on the information that has been presented and the lack of information thats been presented to support other wise?

I think it's kind of funny you have to resort to name calling...
Considering the government cant even locate Mr Bush's dd-214, Im proud of my honorable discharge =]

But hey, you have your own opinion. I never asked you to agree, but i would expect you to act like a business owner and adult before making childish comments.

Have a nice day kia =]

So what service were you in? Your birthdate would suggest you are 25 years old, that was a pretty shore stent. What did you do in the service you were in?

united states coast guard =], and actually my birthdate would suggest im 24 =]

Bush:
Lost the popular vote, but still 'won' the election

Promised Americans that we would stop 'policing the world' and bring american troops home - We are now in the largest deployment of troops overseas since vietnam.

Bush promised his tax cuts to big business and the rich would help americans get back to work - it helped me loose my job.

Bush has proposed that we use the constitution to restrict the rights of Americans for only the SECOND time since the bill of rights was drafted in 1789, the other time was prohibition.

Bush promised he would reduce the size of government - While he tried, by cutting positions in the EPA, HUD, social programs, etc, he expanded with the department of homeland security. My suitcase gets inspected each time I fly, but I can still by a shot gun at the neighborhood walmart. (I am a gun owner).

Bush signed laws that let the military hold US CITIZENS in jail with out their CONSTITUTIONALY GUARANTEED RIGHTS to a trial. They haven't even been charged with crimes, they are called 'enemy combatants" Enemies or not, they are still AMERICANS, and as such, are guaranteed certain rights that the government CANNOT take away. Bush seems to think otherwise - What good is fighting to uphold american values if bush does not even want to follow the most basic of rights in the US?

I can rant about other things, but the point is really moot now, isn't it?

Bush is not a hero, yes i cant stand bush. the real heros are the ones that are losing their lives thousands of miles away from home. Bush is like a child that needs his hand held for every step yet still manages to throw tantrums that affect all of us.

Alvo is clearly a troll, mods really should do more to prevent hijacking of a thread like this.

Originally posted by skreid
If Bush wants to be a hero, maybe he will leave his desk and do something other than give orders.

Come on now... everyone knows it's Cheney's desk and Bush is the one TAKING the orders! ;)

bush=crackhead...

1. If you are for peace, then the concept of the war was a bad idea; another solution, or at least a U.N. sanctioned 'invasion/liberation' (whatever your term) would make more sense.

2. If you are for eliminating terrorists or undermining their support within a regime then a wise, fiscally prudent President would have used covert ops to remove Saddam, let Iraq go into anarchy and cival war (which would wipe out thousands of warring factions and of course innocents; which died by the dozens in this last campaign)

3. ...and while that was going on (old formula), you sell the emerging govt. arms for oil, enjoy cheaper oil prices, rising sales of weapons and weapon grade steel and technology (exported from the U.S. of course), and when the dust settled not one american would have died in the process since during the cival war and anarchy it's much easier to go in and take out a few of the leaders of either regime you want to off.

Instead of using an old formula past Presidents used over and over he used up tens of billions in American tax dollars, gave us a record breaking defict and spent hundreds (will be a thousand before it's over) of american lives.

So, yes, we need to crack down on terrorists. I've always suggested using education and social programs to strengthen a regime interested in progress.

But if you insist on using force, snuffing 'bad folks' and all that 'bang bang' logic, wouldn't it be nice if Americans didn't have to die in the process or fund the evolution of the emerging government and wouldn't it be nice if we could enjoy falling oil prices and rising exports in the process and wouldn't it be really neat if it all took place overseas instead of creating global hatred for Americans in the Arab and Muslim world, which will backlash for SURE.

If we had let them fight it out on their own turf and stayed the hell out of there, perhaps we wouldn't have as MANY new recruits for terrorist groups planning on targeting the U.S. Those photos were a real kicker. Great job...George Bush; a crack head of a President and if you're not an American paying for the taxes for this war, or now a target of a large increase in Muslims worldwide...consider yourself lucky.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

We are giving Iraqis the justice they deserve via liberation. I'm not going to write an essay like some of you, however, Bush is one of the best presidents we have had in a long time. I love him, he is doing what needed to be done many years ago, it is just this world has gotten so politically correct, and sensitive, it has blown up to be a big deal, if this happened 50 years ago, there wouldn't have been a second thought on the matter. History will prove you people who say "the war was for oil" and everything else you seem to be spewing wrong.

Originally posted by bow-viper1
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

We are giving Iraqis the justice they deserve via liberation.

occupation you mean

Anyway I guess some other people don't deserve it since the US supports Islam Karimov (Islom Karimov). You probably have to look up who that is, which already proves the point that it's not about "liberation" at all.

I'm actually living in Europe but I think Bush is a good president and I hope he stays president for some more years. I think he's one of few people who increase security and freedom at the same time. Too bad many people in Europe don't appreciate his good work.

Originally posted by Eric Cartman
Kerry is just a slight bit better than the Bush administration anyway.
Anyway i guess facts aren't that important as tough macho language for someone who reads things by insightmag.com.

Atleast Bush stands for something, Kerry has a hard time in the morning deciding what he's going to eat.

Originally posted by interactive
Atleast Bush stands for something, Kerry has a hard time in the morning deciding what he's going to eat.

Since when changing ones opinion based on a new facts and changed situation on the ground is so horrible thing to do. It should rather be a sign of honesty and intelligence, but I am not sure that this administration would want honesty and intelligence to become issues on upcoming elections.

Originally posted by interactive
Atleast Bush stands for something, Kerry has a hard time in the morning deciding what he's going to eat.

What does he stand for? Last time I checked, we were fighting a war because "we thought there were WMD", and yet, there have been no WMD. So you rather have a President who stands for false information than a President who can say "I was wrong" ?

I don't usually get involved in big political debates like this - but I thought I would throw my hat into the right and bring up a few ideas.

I personally think a lot of what President Bush is doing is justified. Right after 9/11 people wanted a more secure nation - and for the ones who caused it to be brought to justice. However it seems we have to do this without changing the constitution or actually making an agressive move towards another country.

It seems like people are saying we have to wait for someone to attack us before we can do anything. Then when we do do something - we have to make sure every other country (including the UN) agrees with us. People often forget that every country has it's own agenda. They are looking out for their best interests just like we should be.

That's about all I have to say right now - but I definately think President Bush is doing the right thing by being agressive and not waiting for something like 9/11 to happen again. Because we all know if it does - he will get blamed for not being more agressive.

Basically he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Jasber, what has being agressive against terrorists got to do with Iraq? There was not a single terrorist in Iraq BEFORE the US invaded it, not a single bit of evidence of WMDs, not a single bit of evidence that Iraq was a thread to the US. The war in Iraq was unjustified. Yes, Saddam was a bad guy, but that does not give you the right to invade another country.

Originally posted by beowulfdk
Jasber, what has being agressive against terrorists got to do with Iraq? There was not a single terrorist in Iraq BEFORE the US invaded it, not a single bit of evidence of WMDs, not a single bit of evidence that Iraq was a thread to the US. The war in Iraq was unjustified. Yes, Saddam was a bad guy, but that does not give you the right to invade another country.

I'm sure there was at least one terrorist in Iraq. Every nation has at least one.

Originally posted by interactive
Atleast Bush stands for something, Kerry has a hard time in the morning deciding what he's going to eat.

Bush stands for whatever PNAC wants him to stand for, just like Kerry stands for whatever PPI wants him to stand for.
The difference between those 2 aren't that much anyway (with PPI being a bit better (read less evil) in my opinion).