Here's my question:

I will be moving all my customers out of my Alabanza box in the next few weeks. here are two of my conserns..

1- I can copy the contents of their directories the new one, but what about mail account settings ?

2- How would I go about changing the DNS servers ? the DNS will be the same, but the IP's for the DNS won't, do I have to ask every single customer to change their DNS IP's or is there a faster way to do it ?

You have major work ahead of you. You can copy the directories from one server to another, but if you are switching to another provider not only will your email settings not work, but if any of the paths (perl, sendmail, root, etc) are different none of your customers scripts will work. I don't know of a script that will change all of this information for you. It looks like you may have to do it by hand. Hire some extra help if you can, and make sure you let your customers know ahead of time so they will not get so upset if something doesnot work.

The name server settings should change automaticaly on all of your customers sites. The only exception that I have seen is domains registered with a Core registar. When I changed my name server IP's, all of the sites using my name servers updated automaticaly, except for one, and they happened to be the only on that bought their domain name through a Core registrar (I don't remember the name of the company, but it's owned by OLM.net).

Good luck, and keep us informed about how it goes.

As CRego3D said already, you have lots of work ahead. In my opinion its best to find a way for the client to reload their own site, maybe with your help since your making them move. But all the paths will change if your switching to VDI for sure, they do not use sendmail for one and there are several more changes to look out for. So scripts set to use sendmail have to be changed. I have personally never been on or logged into an alabanza site so I cant say for sure all of the changes there may be. I know from DI to VDI was many changes but all worth while. We have stopped adding sites to teh DI servers and only use them as our DNS servers now unless someone wants them in particular. That way we only modify there current records on the DI servers and don not have to rush anything to get them up on VDI. A lot of mistakes and unhappy clients are made when things get rushed.

You have a fair amount of work ahead, especially if you have a large amount of customers. I've got information on my site on how to do it. If you are systematic and cautious, you can do it with a minimum of disruption.

Basically, I would suggest preparing duplicate forms and cgi scripts with the new paths. Upload them to the new server, along with all the other files, and move your customers in batches. That will give you time to check that all their forms and email accounts are working properly.

As far as their DNS changes, it depends on who their registrat is. If it is Network Solutions (ugh), you can fill out the forms on their behalf and all they have to do is return them (all done by email).

With other registrars, such as 000domains.com and others on the Open SRS system, the customer will have to change them (unless you have access to the Domain Manager). Just make sure your instructions are clear and to the point as many people are easily confused on this matter.

UnitedTec

So, you say the sites DNS's will automatically change ? now that's great news .. all of my customers are either on NetworkSolutions or Bulkregister (I believe 10 of them might be scattered with other registars) .. but that's already a big load off to know I don't have to manually change the DNS IP's for each customer :)

And yes, I agree with Jaguar, I should have some of the customers (the ones with allot of CGI) upload the site themselfs

I will keep you guys posted

So, you say the sites DNS's will automatically change ?

That was my experience. When I moved my servers I had to change the IP addresses for the name servers. My name servers were registered through registar.com, and most of my customers domains where registered through OpenSRS or NetSol. I changed the IP numbers with registar.com (which took severl emails, lots of phone calls, and some shouting), but all of the other domains updated automaticaly except for one.

ALL the ip numbers are going to change the e-mails setting will change

1. move all dns rec to NEW server at NEW host. Make this the working dns server while all your clients are still hosted at the old host.
2. Copy all the files over. you may need to chown everything again. dont forget emails, mysql, logs, etc..
3. Ip renumbering (hate to be you at this point). We have a script that lets you do ./changeip domain.com oldip newip
and it will replace the old ip with the new one at /var/named. that way you do not have to open every dns file and type in the info. if you need this script let me know. There are 2 more files you will still need to edit to do the job.
4. as you renumber the ip at /var/named your clients will be pointing to the new server.

problems you will have: client files will never be up to date, some users passwords will not work, clients not knowing what is going on because email they gave is outdated, may have problems with dns (most of the time it just looks for dns.domain.com and gets the ip from there. if you make the updates at netsol every other register should be updated also.) and finally a lot more problems along the way.

We helped a company move over a dedicated to us we know most of the surprises.

and yes expect to lose a few clients along the way.

+------------------------+
| Mike |
| Mike@interserver.net |
| http://interserver.net |
| 877-566-8398 |
+------------------------+

and yes expect to lose a few clients along the way.


Well if you inform your clients about what is about to take place and just be honest then most will stay, but he is right there will be a few that won't get the news and decide to cancel. Can't get away from that though, thats business.

DNS should be the LAST thing changed over

My plan would be to move all the clients over and then do some testing. Scripts, webpages etc.

Then start the DNS change when everything seems okay

I think the biggest problem you will have are the email settings. Expecially if your customers had the ability to add/del etc. their email.

later

David

yep ... this is going to be fun :/

I alerted all of my clients about the move, I figure out that the best way will be to move very slow...

I will make it during a 30 day period, moving htem by blocks, after the 1st block is all set I'll have the old DNS server ponint to their new IP at the new server, then I'll do the same with the second block, and so on ...

At the end I'll change the DNS's IP's ..

But indeed my biggest problem will be the fact they can add / remove e-mail accounts, that's going to be a major pain to make shure they can be recreated :/

And yes ... I will loose a few customers, but hopefully this will be done right and I won't loose too many ;-)

and Jaguar .. VDI doesn't use sendmail ??

Another thing is you do not have to make all the changes at once ;)

You can stagger the migration

David

No, VDI does not install sendmail. They use Exim, so youll have to adjust your scripts that use sendmail to use /usr/bin/exim -t

since it is your dedicated server can you not install sendmail yourself?

later

David

humm, good question ... I'll ask VDI if they allow me to install sendmail ... one less problem to deal with :)

Cant you install any software you want as long as it's legal?.

if not thats pointless.

Sure you can install sendmail if you want. Best thing though
is link /usr/bin/sendmail to /usr/sbin/exim . They both work the same and this way no need to install the inferior sendmail program. Quick fix.

Jag made the best suggestion. You can also make links for other apps. Like the location of Perl etc...

It would definitely be easier than having to modify all your clients scripts.

For example. On one of my boxes I have Postfix installed and created a link /usr/sbin/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/postfix.

I wouldn't change mail progs on a VDI server since the control panel and/or Webhost Manager may need modifications.

Originally posted by jaguar
They both work the same and this way no need to install the inferior sendmail program. Quick fix.

sendmail ... inferior?

How is exim better? This is actually the first time I have heard of it.

later

David

I'd definitely agree with staggering the moves so that you move sites in blocks. Keep your customers updated at all times and be brutally honest. Anything less and you'll see customers dropping off like flies. Explain everything in detail (have a page up for something like this instead of e-mailing all your clients) and be nice all the time. Customers will thank you in the long run.

And as David suggested, DNS should be moved last. Make sure everything on the new server's running to plan, test it out on site (e.g. check all e-mail POP accounts work, Sendmail works, CGI scripts are where they should be, etc.) then send out one final announcement to complete the move and explain they should expect the most disruption then (as DNS can be a bit fickle occasionally if things go wrong).

Good luck.

As we all know every program has its flaws and holes for security but sendmail is one of if not the biggest exploited programs for hackers/crackers to get into a system.

Take a look at http://www.exim.org for the info on exim

As far as I can tell most of the problems with sendmail are due to poor installation or older versions that have not had the most recent patches.

sooo if I install the most recent version of sendmail, install it properly, and keep up with any patches it should be fine. (which is what should be done with *any* software product anyway)

Jaguar, do you know of any sources that say (with some proof) that exim is more secure than sendmail?

later

David

I guess i probably should rephrase that, VDI told me that and since i have been digging for some solid proof. Exim does appear to carry more benefits and ammo against spammers if you review their site but as far as security I have not found proof. I have seen a few exploits used on sendmail that can not work on exim, but the new ver. of sendmail fix that up now.

since VDi ties their systems into exim i would just recommend the link idea i posted here a few posts back as opposed to installing sendmail. Why add another program that can be hacked and has to be kept up with?

Originally posted by jaguar
since VDi ties their systems into exim i would just recommend the link idea i posted here a few posts back as opposed to installing sendmail. Why add another program that can be hacked and has to be kept up with?
True. I was just curious about exim. I am always looking for better tools, software etc. So if exim was up to par I was going to give it a shot ;)

later

David

It is , its powerful and so far have found that users coming from sendmail systems and trying to now use the exim ones have to turn on the email auth in Outlook to send mail.

Do not see what the problem is with paths you guys keep talking about. you can make links. they use /usr/sbin/sendmail it goes to /usr/sbin/exim. can be done for all the paths.

+------------------------+
| Mike |
| Mike@interserver.net |
| http://interserver.net |
| 877-566-8398 |
+------------------------+

we already stated that, thanks

thanks for that great tip jaguar, one less problem to deal with .. 99 still to go ;) .. my problem also is that VDI's servers assign a different username to the mail account (ex carlos@3dwizards.com is 3dwizardscarlos ..) major pain .. I need to ask VDI some more info on why it does that

And now for something totally different.

There is a program I have been using for just over a year, and never, ever, had a problem with it in any way. It's a powerful program and needs to be used with some care & attention until you get used to it.

You can choose what text to change "in every file in a given directory(s)" without having to open any. That is the beauty (and the power) of this program. It is called LightningSearch (http://www.asan.com/users/therekutins/lightningsearch.html) and is a no-nag Donationware program.

In this particular case, all files from a Domain could be moved from the old server to the new and apply the changes accordingly. Then upload to the new server and begin testing. Once the desired results have been achieved, it would be a simple matter to apply the same changes to all other Domain files.

The only limitation I've found with this program is that it only works with files in DOS format, not Unix. Not a big deal though and if you are not familiar with the difference, then your files are probably in DOS format. Only certain programs allow for saving in Unix format and must be done manually. Also, I'm not sure how it works with files created on a Mac as I don't have access to one.

Originally posted by CRego3D
thanks for that great tip jaguar, one less problem to deal with .. 99 still to go ;) .. my problem also is that VDI's servers assign a different username to the mail account (ex carlos@3dwizards.com is 3dwizardscarlos ..) major pain .. I need to ask VDI some more info on why it does that

It does that so every site user can add for example joe@jaguarpc.com and then you want to add joe@wizardshosting.com , well on a normal unix/linux system you would have the first client (jaguarpc.com) use the username joe, then maybe do something like joe2 for the second client (wizardshosting.com) and then alias joe@wizardshosting.com to the user joe2. Well using the VDI method the script just appends the domain to ensure each user is already unique so i can add joe@jaguarpc.com at the same second you add joe@wizardshosting.com and we dont bother with who has joe and who has joe2 and so on. Its basically just a ready made alias script that sets joe@... to jaguarjoe or whatever your domain is. I hope that makes sense I kinda got carried away and being so burnt out tired doesnt help :)

Sorry Jaguar, I see opn your post it's late there :) anyway, no I do understand why (so I can have several joe's on the system) ... but how come Alabanza allows you to have joe@1 and Joe@2 with the same username ?

Not that it will be a problem for new customers, but old ones might be a little ... I don't know, maybe they won't even think anything about it :)

Alabanza uses a virtual pop system which runs through several wrappers etc to create their desired effect.

VDI does not.

VDI uses standard logins instead of a virtual pop system.

Most hosts don't use a virtual pop system anyhow.