I realise this is my personal opinion, but I'm sure I speak for many users when I say, it sucks.

Ok, so I'm making a farely complex table layout design, I finally after hours of work get it all ligned up, using my rowspans and such, get it online with basic content, but wait will it work with Mozilla? (I usually don't care, but lets face it for some unknown reason, people actually use this browser). So I ask one of my designers if it looks ok, he tells me one of the images is mis-aligned, sends me a screenshot and wow, this is me ..

:kaioken: :smash: :flamethr: :uzi: :argue: :bawling: :mad: :angry: :rolleyes:

Ok, so to fix the problem, it needs to go 3 pixels left, but if I move it 3 pixels left, IE makes it go 3 pixels mis-aligned. Right now I am re-building the whole HTML because the awkward bastards decided to make a new browser (unlike netscape which looks the same as in IE) can't make it easy on us developers.

So I decide to check out some other design companies designs on Mozilla, needless to say, some are perfect, some aren't. But what really got me was Mozilla refuses to load the flash elements and freezes them in the first frame, do you people (Mozilla uses) really put up with this? Is there a way to turn it on? Why isn't it default? Jesus christ, it's Lucifers creation to making everything WRONG.

Some of you may laugh, disagree, think what the %^$£ is Mozilla? But let me say this, if I ever meet the people who created Mozilla, I will burn them personally, seriously what sort of demon browser is this?!?

Mozilla has tabbed browsing, skins, and an array of features. Why wouldn't you use it? Unless you're The Dude , of course. ;)

Now, tables should only be used for tabular data, NOT layouts. If you use divs/CSS for most of your layout, you'll see that changing certain elements is easy. Also, the design will look nice on both browsers.

Learn some newer coding standards and put them to use! IE isn't going anywhere, Mozilla and Opera are the new wave.

Yeahh, Mozilla is so much better then IE. I like it the whole tabbed browsing thing. Its great. So many more features then IE. Great browser everyone should get it.

Actually, Mozilla is showing you the way it should look with your coding. So if it looks messed up, your code is messed up. If you actually know how to code true html and not use an editor like dreamweaver you'll have no problem. As far as the flash, it's because mozilla is smart and requires you to install a plugin.

I use CSS also, doesn't seem to like "my style of coding" until I 'correct' it.

Tabbed browsing? I think I'll stick to Netscape or IE thanks

If you stick to Netscape, you're just contributing to what you call a "devil browser" as the mozilla crew were the ones coding for netscape until a couple of months ago. Netscape and Mozilla are basically the same browsers minus branding.

AOL owned Netscape and dropped it, so all developers went to the Mozilla project.

Tabbed browsing is multiple sites in one window, which means less load on your PC. IE doesn't have this and NS is depricated.

Your HTML is just as important as the CSS.

** Notices the flash elements ahsn't been noted.

If these 'devils' made Netscape, why does Netscape view the same as IE, but Mozilla runs differently?

have you looked into firefox. this browser is hot buritos!!!

Originally posted by 4 Degrees
** Notices the flash elements ahsn't been noted.

If these 'devils' made Netscape, why does Netscape view the same as IE, but Mozilla runs differently?
Actually, usrbingeek did make a note. You need to install the flash plugin, just like for IE.

Originally posted by 4 Degrees
** Notices the flash elements ahsn't been noted.


Read my first post, I did make reference to flash.


Mozilla runs differently because it was made better. It doesn't allow sloppy code to look good. Does exactly what it's suppose to do, show the webpage the way the code for the page was written, not how it thinks it's suppose to look. So what it comes down to is, write crappy code, it'll look crappy, write proper code and it'll be fine.

The fact is IE hold 90% of the market. If the people that used Mozilla doubled it would still only have double digits in the market. Becuase of this I build for IE and though I check Mozilla, I rather have that a little off then IE.

As for using Mozilla (firefox), I have to say I like it a lot. The tabbed browsing and popup blocker is something IE badly needs. Hopefully it will come in the next IE version.

Just code proper so it shows fine in Mozilla and you'll have the best of both worlds. If it looks good in Mozilla, it'll look good in IE. Saying you only code for IE 'cause its the market hold is just an excuse for crappy code.

Sorry justb read your first post, must of missed it.

Did I say I only code in IE? Excuse me if I did but that's not true, I check in Netscape and on Mac (forgot the browser name).

My sites look fine in Mozilla, it's just this one, I tried to get away with "crappy code" because it wasn't working in IE how it should of been.

Originally posted by usrbingeek
Mozilla runs differently because it was made better. It doesn't allow sloppy code to look good.

My car runs differently because it was made better. If I don't keep my steering wheel exactly straight it flies off the highway at a 90 degree angle.

Sounds a bit silly yes?

I agree good coding is important but being critical of a browser because it allows for 'errors' and compensates for them seems a bit odd. ;)

Originally posted by 4 Degrees
Sorry justb read your first post, must of missed it.

Did I say I only code in IE? Excuse me if I did but that's not true, I check in Netscape and on Mac (forgot the browser name).

My sites look fine in Mozilla, it's just this one, I tried to get away with "crappy code" because it wasn't working in IE how it should of been. Safari

Originally posted by akashik
My car runs differently because it was made better. If I don't keep my steering wheel exactly straight it flies off the highway at a 90 degree angle.

Sounds a bit silly yes?

I agree good coding is important but being critical of a browser because it allows for 'errors' and compensates for them seems a bit odd. ;) Okay, so all the old cars were made using gasoline. It's 30 years in the future and they came out with solar/battery power. Should we still allow cars to use gas if the battery is just as effective?

A bad comparison, but..

As all XHTML/Strict experts will tell you, Internet Explorer is evil. It renders code badly and incorrectly, and often a whole new set of CSS is needed just for IE to handle the code without breaking. All the other rendering engines - CAB, Gecko, KHTML, Opera etc. render it fine, but IE... no chance.

Netscape uses the Mozilla/Gecko rendering engine, so the rendered output should be identical. Perhaps your version of netscape is slightly out of date?

I really like KHTML, though!

Netscape is the latest ... My code is usually mere perfect, first time for everything, including sloppy code ;)

I check my pages in most of those browsers to make sure they appear the same (or closest as possible) no matter what browser is used.

Originally posted by 4 Degrees
Netscape is the latest ...

Not for long as AOL dropped the browser and the coders went to Mozilla. Couple more updates of Mozilla/Firefox and your Netscape will be outdated.

Originally posted by pinPoint
have you looked into firefox. this browser is hot buritos!!!

agreed =D

I'll check out firefox, URL anyone?

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ ;)

Thanks :)

my IE freezes up my computer, so im forced to use mozilla...its better then netscape...and....hell....i cant be ****ed to re-image my computer :p

LOL

if IE freezes your computer you have some RAM / Processor issues :P

The only real good web designer I know says Mozilla is actually more "true to standards" than IE and IE will let you code sloppy but Mozilla shows it properly. He's heard me rant more than a few times when tables looked good in IE and then like crap in Mozilla he was always like "yeah but Mozilla is being honest with you and IE is letting you get away with sloppy work"

And I use Mozilla :)

I use both, but I think monopolist explorer still has an edge, but not much. IE has some non-standard renderings, but I think Firefox has some bugs still. Like the cursor sits right on the letters, which I find annoying, and forum text boxes are rendered too narrow, and a few others that I can't remember at the moment.

When coding web pages, I find I sometimes have to make pages simpler so as to render OK with both browsers. KISS.

My code is usually mere perfect, first time for everything, including sloppy code

Sure about that?

W3C automatic check for DocType and character encoding (http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pmod.co.uk%2F&doctype=%28detect+automatically%29&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&verbose=1) - Fail, no DocType or character encoding declared

W3C Validator override in effect (http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pmod.co.uk%2F&doctype=HTML+4.01+Transitional&charset=iso-8859-1+%28Western+Europe%29&verbose=1) (HTML 4.01 Transitional and iso-8859-1 character encoding) - Fail, not valid (36 errors)

W3C Validator override in effect (http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pmod.co.uk%2F&doctype=HTML+3.2&charset=iso-8859-1+%28Western+Europe%29&verbose=1) (HTML 3.2 and iso-8859-1 character encoding) - Fail, not valid (41 errors)

W3C Validator override in effect (http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pmod.co.uk%2F&doctype=HTML+2.0&charset=iso-8859-1+%28Western+Europe%29&verbose=1) (HTML 2.0 and iso-8859-1 character encoding) - Fail, not valid (103 errors)

These tests were all conducted on your home page, pmod.co.uk. People may say validation isn't important, but I'd suggest this: before you start bashing a browser, take a long, hard look at your own work and contemplate the possibility that it may not actually be the browser's fault.

Originally posted by DanX
Mozilla has tabbed browsing, skins, and an array of features. Why wouldn't you use it? Unless you're The Dude , of course. ;)

HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!

MYIE2 (http://www.myie2.com) is your friend!!!!!!!!!

The Dude :)

Originally posted by The Dude
HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!

MYIE2 is your friend!!!!!!!!!

The Dude :)

Now if only it could make IE secure without patches every other month.

I just have 2 comments on this.

1. If your HTML is so complex that it is not cross platform or cross browser compatible - then you probably need to simplify it. After all - isn't the Web about geing a platform independent network?

2. Mozilla often saves me from some headaches. A couple of times a month I get a forum user that can't login anymore from IE. We try several configuration changes but nothing works. I have them download Mozilla and the problem is solved in the short term - at least they can post now. Also IE has a bug that doesn't allow for increasing the font size within common css attributes. For older viewers this is a problem. Again - Mozilla saves the day.

I agree Mozilla sucks!

Originally posted by pmm2
I agree Mozilla sucks!
You registered just to post that to a 2 month old thread? And then you give no reason. If you gave a reason for why you hate it, I'd understand... but you didn't.

Ahh, one post wonders... gotta love em :D