This story is about hours old but it still provides a very good talking point.

Article extract >>

The Metropolitan Police has been considering positive discrimination as a way of speeding up the recruitment of black and Asian officers.
The idea was put forward by the Metropolitan Black Police Association (MBPA), to make the force more representative of London's racial mix.

Such a plan would mean changing the 1976 Race Relations Act.

In 2002-03, 9.8% of recruits were from ethnic minorities, but by 2009 this must be 25.9% under government targets.


'Standards'

Martin Tiplady, the Met's head of human resources, told BBC London the force did not "stand a prospect of getting anywhere near the target", according to their current rate of progress.

A large number of ethnic minority staff, both officers and civilian workers, are leaving the organisation just two years after joining

Leroy Logan, Metropolitan Black Police Association

But since 1998 the force has doubled the proportion of ethnic minority officers.

Mr Tiplady said if the Met were to use positive discrimination this will not mean a drop in standards.

"We follow nationally agreed recruitment standards. The law would need to change in order to allow us, to pursue positive discrimination.

"We would still require there to be a standard that is maintained, and then only then would we at that point give discrimination or priority to the black candidate," he said.

Met chiefs will meet the Commission for Racial Equality to ask for its advice and backing.

If secured it will seek the support of Home Secretary David Blunkett, according to the Guardian newspaper.

End extract <<

For more info :: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3634085.stm

Is that acceptable in your book?

Opinions?? Comments??

Critic, :cool:

Probably not the most acceptable thing, but I can't think of any other way to increase the numbers of ethnic minorities in the police force given the problems it's currently having.

I don't think this will happen, because what's the percentage of ethnic minorities in relation to the total population of UK? 25.9% seems a bit high to me.

Its probably more than that. Where I live (South London), there are definitely more "minorities" than British-Born Whites. Just next door there's a family of (I believe) 8 living in a 3-bedroom semi, the same with the house next door to them. Down the road there's a black family of 9/10 living in a 4 bedroom detached.

Originally posted by N9ne
I don't think this will happen, because what's the percentage of ethnic minorities in relation to the total population of UK? 25.9% seems a bit high to me.

I believe that figure only refers to recruits, not the total number of police, they need to recruit at a higher level than is actually representive of the population as a whole because they are starting fom a position where ethnic minorities are woefully underrepresented in the police force.

Well i more than understand the need to increase the proportion of ethnic groups in the police force [especially with cases like Stephen Lawrence and the effort to increase confidence by all in the force] but i can see this harming race relations in the police and then from that to some extent generally.

The job should go tho the individual best qualified for it through their personal performance and skills and not through race. If we want less racial tension we should break down the barriers and stop seperating people into groups according to race and such which this will do. They should be seen as police men and women, nothing more and certainly no need for a race related label.

I don't think this proposal will send out the right message.

I have a disability and i wouldn't if i was applying for a job want to be given it ahead of someone else to fulfill a target or quota but because i was good enough. If the police can't recruit in sufficient numbers through current methods, they'll just have to change their approach and increase the intensity, target the inner city schools to increase interest.

N9ne, according to this article >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2756041.stm

Census figures from 2001 show that 91.3% of the English and Welsh population is White [this will be abit dated now though since some immigration figures for 2002 i heard suggested an inflow of 200 and something thousand with the majority being ethnic groups] and the remainder from ethnic groups although in two areas of London ethnic groups are the majority for the first time, Newham [East London] and Brent [North London]. My Uncle lives in East London and he is one of only two White people in his road. He's considering selling up, had his car stolen more times than he can count, from what he tells me the houses are crammed which would go along with what Joseph M said.

So i don't necessarily disagree with what they're trying to achieve but theis proposal i do have a problem with.

Critic, :cool:

Originally posted by Critic
If the police can't recruit in sufficient numbers through current methods, they'll just have to change their approach and increase the intensity, target the inner city schools to increase interest.


But that isn't changing their approach, that's their current approach (with more intensity) and it's not working. It really isn't suprising it's not working, the MacPherson report branded the police as "institutionally racist" and even ignoring that I am sure many people from ethnic minorities considering the police as a career were put off by that BBC documentry the other month.

I can see no "marketing" measure that is going to sway people when they've seen things like that documentry, so although positive discrimination is not ideal it is the most practical and effective means of dealing with the problem in the short and medium term which with increased numbers in the force will hopefully have some effect long term, although if they want to really to do something to help the problem, they should ban tabloid newspapers.

I'm against positive descrimination in any shape or form - the jobs are there to be had by the ethnic minorities, if they're not signing up then the reasons for this need to be tackled at their root not by bias recruiting.

All positive descrimination can lead to is a drop in the quality of recruits, everyone should have to earn their position by merit whatever their colour, religion or sex.

Originally posted by bagpuss
But that isn't changing their approach, that's their current approach (with more intensity) and it's not working. It really isn't suprising it's not working, the MacPherson report branded the police as "institutionally racist" and even ignoring that I am sure many people from ethnic minorities considering the police as a career were put off by that BBC documentry the other month.

I can see no "marketing" measure that is going to sway people when they've seen things like that documentry, so although positive discrimination is not ideal it is the most practical and effective means of dealing with the problem in the short and medium term which with increased numbers in the force will hopefully have some effect long term, although if they want to really to do something to help the problem, they should ban tabloid newspapers.

Do you not see that by using this method to increase the numbers of ethnic groups in the Police will probably create more tension and resentment from those being discriminated against??

Surely there is a chance that the quality of police men and women will go down if people are being fast tracked as a result of a certain ethnic group and not quality regardless of their origin?

Do you not also feel that the best way to create racial equality and good relations is for them to be seen as one thing [in this case Police men and women] instead of being pigeon holed according to origin first and second a member of the police force?

Critic, :cool:

Originally posted by Critic
Do you not see that by using this method to increase the numbers of ethnic groups in the Police will probably create more tension and resentment from those being discriminated against??


As I said it's not ideal, but I would place the feelings of discrimination of millions in Britain above those applying for promotion in the police force.

Originally posted by Critic

Surely there is a chance that the quality of police men and women will go down if people are being fast tracked as a result of a certain ethnic group and not quality regardless of their origin?


Possibly.

Originally posted by Critic

Do you not also feel that the best way to create racial equality and good relations is for them to be seen as one thing [in this case Police men and women] instead of being pigeon holed according to origin first and second a member of the police force?


That is not a way to create racial equality, that is a definition of racial equality, did you see the BBC documnetry the other month when a journalist went in undercover as a recruit to one of the police training colleges?

If you didn't here is what one of his top quality fellow recruits did (out of many instances by different recruits / officers):

"Pc Rob Pulling was filmed putting on a Ku Klux Klan-style hood and saying he would bury an Asian under a train."

How do you seriously expect to increase the numbers of ethnic minorities in our police force to a level representative of the country, when the people we are trying to recruit have seen things like that? (other than positive discrimination)

yep we watched that, and although it was disgracefull positive discrimination is not the way to go.

any kind of discrimination is wrong why should anyone not get a job because of the colour of their skin? and another way of putting 'positive discrimination' is ' lets discriminate against the white populace' because in effect that is what would happen.....