Greetings all,

I'm hoping to gain some words of wisdom regarding this problem I just encountered. I was asked to go to a client's site to remove a virus from one of their computers. I arrived with my laptop so I could download needed software/patches while doing my thing (they have a T1, so plugged into their network).

I had my laptop open and running beside the other computer, which was basically in a small storage/kitchen type of room. This room had shelves above the work space with various books, binders, boxes, and general stuff located above.

While I was in another part of the office attending to another computer, I heard the sound of stuff falling. I went back to the room where my laptop was and discovered that one of the workers had tried to get something from a shelf above her and several binders had fallen, landing on my laptop. I didn't notice any problems until about 10 minutes later. Upon closer inspection, my 'W' key had been dislodged and was actually broken. The little thingie-ma-bob that the key attaches to was cracked in one place, so it was not fixable on site.

The girl who caused this incident agreed to pay for the repair. I wasn't sure what it would take, but mentioned to her I hope I can just get a replacement part. Well, I found out I had to order an entire keyboard. It ends up that the cost is just under $80 with tax. So I ordered it and installed it myself to save some money. Everything is back in order.

Next time I'm down there, I tell her what the cost is, and now she's acting like she shouldn't be the one to pay, after all she didn't put the items up where they would shift and fall. I agree to take this matter up with her boss, so I write to him and explain the situation. He's an attorney, and actually a friend of mind as well (1 person law office).

I didn't hear anything for several days. Today I called him because I noticed he's transferring his domains away from my company. Upon reaching him he tells me that he's not happy with my technical services (another long story), and by the way, he feels that I take a risk to my equipment if I bring it into his office. However, in any case, my arrangement with his office employee is between myself and her and he will stay out of it.

So basically, this guy is terminating our business relationship for various matters that I won't get into, and I've got an expense incurred while working at his office that I did not cause, in my opinion.

What should I do? I'm thinking about some kind of contact with the employee who broke the keyboard and asking her for a reimbursement since she agreed to one initially. Or shall I just drop it?

Go back to her and tell her if she pays 1/2 you won't persue the action any further.

I would bill him for your services and add a few hours to your bill that will compensate for the computer fix. He at least owes you for your services rendered whether he terminates your services or not. Then find out why he is terminating your services. Tell him you'll drop the computer charges.

Let me clarify something... I did bill him for the services. I ended up spending 2 hrs getting the virus off the computer and all the porn links that had been embedded into the registry as well (like when going to Google, instead a porn site opened).

At this point I don't have any dispute with the client about paying for other services, I think all that will be ok. I'm mostly wondering how to handle the broken keyboard expenses.

just tell her if she doesn't pay you will be purseing it further, people usually get scared and pay up ;)

Remember, it is only a small amount, so is it worth it?

I think cody's post on asking her to consider at least 1/2 and you'll drop it is fair and reasonbable at this point. The more time you spend on this is less time you could be at another customer's site or getting another customer. In the end you'll end up spending more in your own time than the repair.

This is not meant as a flame or anything, but consider getting your equipment on a protection plan. If they are leased or bought through a name brand most offer this. If not your local insurance providers can also be great resource. For something as necessary a tool as your laptop is to your business I'd make this a priority.

I don't know where you're at. But, if that happened where I'm at, I'd just take them (the boss) to small claims. Sounds like a pretty easy case.

In the United States, the owner of a business is generally responsible for the actions of his employees while they are on the job, as well as anything else that may happen at his place of business.

Even though the girl agreed to pay, it's my opinion, based on similar experiences, that the boss needs to pay you for this. Unfortunately for you, they both sound like a couple of weasels.

Good luck.

-B

So was the $80 repair really worth losing this customer? For something that small I would have eaten the cost myself. I think you'll spend way more then $80 worth of your time trying to recover this $80 in cash.

Well, after my discussion with the client yesterday, he indicated he has been unhappy with my work for quite some time. So like I said, the fact that he is cancelling all work has little to do with the keyboard, as far as I can tell anyway.

I was actually quite surprised when I learned the client was unhappy. He had never really given me any indication of this. The only thing that happened several months ago was that he had me do alot of configuration and support getting some new computers online, and after I was done he thought I charged him too much.

His main complaints yesterday were that I had recommended McAfee SpamKiller about a year ago, and he still had a significant spam problem. I then installed SpamAssassin on my server last fall and configured his accounts to get filtered. It turns out that 98% of his spam was coming from his own dial-up account email address, which he was retrieving at he office. I had no control of that via SpamAssassin.

The other main issue was regarding a backup tape drive I sold him some time ago, a OnStream model. Of course that company is out of business now and recently one of his tapes got jammed inside the drive and it was going to require disassembly to remove any pieces of the tape still in there. He decided to do that himself.

So he's accusing me of selling him a Spam solution that is now outdated, in fact I removed it from his computer recently because he bought Norton Internet Security, and he complained about that to me yesterday. Well I didn't see any reason to have two spam programs on his computer along with other security elements that could potentially conflict. And he was unhappy with SpamKillers performance either. I explained to him that at the time, there were few real alternatives, but now there were many more and in my opinion, the Norton package was a better solution for him.

He is also unhappy because the tape drive is 'outdated' and the tapes will be unavailable soon. Of course I had no idea the company had poor management and would be run into bankrupty. At the time they had the best technology for the price and had gotten rave reviews in the press on their products.

This guy does scan the internet looking to see what price he can get on stuff I'm selling him, then asks if I can meet the prices he finds. Example, he said he found the backup tapes for $25, when I sold them at retail for $49.95.

I was charging him $25 a month for business web hosting, and he said he's going to get the same service for 'much less cost'. We'll that may be true, but he certainly won't have a hotline to the owner like he had with me.

Anyway, that's a small window into the recent interaction between this client and myself.

The keyboard situation is an ethical situation that I really was interested in getting feedback on. I want to know if I'm off base with my thinking on this. Personally, I think it would be fair for them to pay for my repairs.

Greetings David:

Such clients are not worth the effort (sad and unfortunate as it is so).

Over the past nine years, we’ve found that more often than not doctors and attorneys can be very difficult to deal with in terms of service and finances (though we do have a law office that does not fit the picture).

Your attorney client will find out there is a way to get zero spam. Yes, there is a way to get zero spam. And maybe they will go that route.

Or maybe they will do some real home work and find the only way to get zero spam is not have an email address.

Maybe they will do their home work and find out that even in WHT circles they tell you that if you want a quality host, you will pay $20 or more per month (we are also at $25 per month for business class hosting).

Or maybe he will go with a $0.50 per month host whose server has been hacked while they claimed on WHT it was only a DDoS attack, but their server was completely hosed afterwards; and then they can be among the huge crowd of WHT hosts who have discussions of what’s the longest time they have been with a host, and how many hosts have they been with over the past six months.

In ending, if misery loves company, when I founded the company (now, we do have employees; but back then it was only me), I was helping a partner who did medical billing get a network set up for the one doctor client of hers.

I should have known things would go bad quickly when I clearly explained to the doctor I did not offer or perform network cabling services; he would have to have the network cables pre-set up with patch cables ready.

Even though the doctor stated on the phone it was done, when I got to the office, cables were on the desk and the doctor stated he wanted me to do the cabling too.

Well, it went better than I expected. However, then the doctor had a terminal that froze randomly during the day. He wanted me there at 9 AM when the office opened, and spend whatever time it took to fix the problem.

I explained to the good doctor that I was going to bill for every hour present; and that since it was random, I could be there for several hours. He asked me if I thought this was important to fix? If I did, then I would be there. While I phrased the statement several different ways – you do realize, I’m billing you $x per hour for every single hour? And every time he agreed.

It took six hours before the system froze, and then I came up with a fix. In the mean time, I did network their printers, did some training, et all.

When it came time to bill payment, the doctor was never in; and finally after several weeks of being past due claimed I didn’t work the entire six hours. Sigh.

Unfortunately, you may have to eat the $80; and next time (though you shouldn’t have to do it this way), get it in writing that the client will pay for equipment damaged by them.

Thank you.

Originally posted by twstdroot
So was the $80 repair really worth losing this customer? For something that small I would have eaten the cost myself. I think you'll spend way more then $80 worth of your time trying to recover this $80 in cash.

Ditto.

But the larger problem is your penny-pinching client. You go to his office to fix a problem, he never tells you he's unhappy with your service, and chisels you over a $25 hosting fee. Find another client who will appreciate you coming down to his office to fix his problem. I think he'll find that the better price he says he can get is not going to include someone driving down to his office.

Stay away from this jerk.

Phil

IANAL. But, I've beat a few in courts. And it's a good feeling. Although, he probably just wouldn't show up. But, that's still a win. :)

It's not the $80. But, the fact that he owes you the $80.

Originally posted by DaveNET
What should I do? I'm thinking about some kind of contact with the employee who broke the keyboard and asking her for a reimbursement since she agreed to one initially. Or shall I just drop it?
I would just put it down to experience and move on. Some things aren't worth the bother. :eek3:

I would say that that i agree with the lawyer. It is your computer, you pay for it. Its a business expense. I never leave my laptop in place where it can get smashed, I rely on it to much. I would never expect an employee of a company to pay for anything. Any responsibility rests solely with the owner/manager. Now it is a bit uncool for the attorney to not offer to pay for it, but since he didnt I would chaulk it up to experience.

Ive been doing tech support for 8 years and have never run into even thinking about charging a client for a part that broke. I mean if you got a flat tire on the way to the office would you charge him for that? I know its the principle to you, but its $80 man. Why bother?

BTW this is my first post here. Hi Everybody !!!

Ive been doing tech support for 8 years and have never run into even thinking about charging a client for a part that broke. I mean if you got a flat tire on the way to the office would you charge him for that?

Those examples do not relate:
- it was cause by a employee
you would $$ a person if they accidently scraped your car.

I was going to add to that. I have been doing similar work for about 3 years now. Outfitting companies with equipment, getting it setup, and provdiging minimal support. Most of the time I have no issues replacing hardware if its the "hardwares" fault, but if a monitor fails because someone spills coffee in the thing, no way would I ever consider _not_ charging them for it.

I would say good ridance :)

Be glad, seems like this relationship would not have worked out in the end anyways.

Those examples do not relate:
- it was cause by a employee
you would $$ a person if they accidently scraped your car.

true- Im just saying its a cost of doing business.

1. You shouldnt leave your personal equiptment where it can get broken.

2. It would never be the employees responsibility

3. Its $80, so who cares? So you skip that bottle of wine next time you go to dinner

4. You should have insurance if you are running a real business.

This is my personal opinion so hopefully I havent completely ruined my non-existant reputation here already. I tend to speak my mind.

I disagree. "where it could get broken" could be alot of places. In fact, even in the most safest place the employee could have passed by and accidentally dropped the book on the keyboard. It is the responsibility of the owner to provide a secure environment to work.

But legally, and I have no basis for saying this. It may be a safe place for employees, but he is a contractor. Do the same rules apply? If the telephone repair company was at your business and the repair mans equiptment got broken because something fell on it, do you think the phone company would try to get reimbursement? Not likely.

Ok ill admit it, I like to play the devils advocate.

Unfortunately, I think you should bite the bullet.

He's an attorney. I'm sure he knows and has the ability to exploit legal loopholes that will make recovery very time, if not monetarily consuming. Isn't the fee for small claim court something like $25? Even then, he knows how to carry himself in court and your win is not guaranteed.

I'm sure your labor is worth atleast $30/hour. The keybord is worth less than 3 hours of your time.

The way I see it, there is No Way legally or morally they the employee (hence the employer as well) is NOT responsible for the damage.

The employee broke some equiptment, on office time, and they should pay for it.


By the way, Ive dealt with doctors, lawyers, etc as a tech, and they are often the most arrogent, pigheaded, and CHEAP people you will run across.

I have a couple of points....

First in regard to the repair...as a business owner I would think that all of your "equipment" would be insured in some way thru your business insurance.

Every piece of equipment I own would be covered in some fashion...even if I took it to a clients location.

This may not be the most popular answer on this question, but in my opinion you should eat the cost of the repair. I'd never dream of billing a client for $80.00 over an accident...

NOW...if the accident was something of a malicious nature, such as a client or employee of the client got ticked off at you and smacked your keyboard with their fist, then I'd be pursuing something against them.

Secondly as for losing the client...I'd say let him go. It sounds as if he is going to "shop around" and "price check" every little thing you do for him. Unless you want to end up in a constant price war I'd just let him go.

The next time he called (and he is no longer a client) I'd also not answer his questions for free. Simply explain that since he is no longer a client that you'd be glad to help him out. That your "consulting fee" for non clients is $xx.xx.

Oh, and something else to consider...what if this same laptop that you took to their location was sitting there and the employee touches it and gets shocked to death from your laptop...is it their fault? Just another reason to be insured.

Originally posted by Cope
I was going to add to that. I have been doing similar work for about 3 years now. Outfitting companies with equipment, getting it setup, and provdiging minimal support. Most of the time I have no issues replacing hardware if its the "hardwares" fault, but if a monitor fails because someone spills coffee in the thing, no way would I ever consider _not_ charging them for it.

I agree if they spill coffee in their monitor it is their responsibility.

That's not even the same scenario as the original post.

it is my feeling you have business insurance for this very reason. It is your responsibility as a business person to cover this expense. i dont believe it is hers.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
I would just put it down to experience and move on. Some things aren't worth the bother. :eek3:

I agree. He already spent about $80.00 of his time posting. :)

Well, let me jump back in... thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

One interesting thing, this gal that dropped the stuff on my laptop, she's kind of short, and I think she was having trouble reaching up to where the stuff was stacked. I'm guessing she pulled something out without being able to see what was stacked on top, and the whole thing came down.

I was actually performing work on one of the client's desktop PCs that was right beside my laptop. The pile could have just as easily fallen on his nice new LCD monitor or keyboard.

As regards insurance, I don't have a policy right now, but will consider getting one. If I did have one, I'm sure the deductible would be quite a bit higher than $80, so it would not probably help in this situation.

The owner of the business actually questioned why I needed to bring my laptop into his business. I didn't get a chance to answer him on that point, but I'm assuming most techs carry a laptop around and use it frequently. In this case I needed it to search the Internet for fixes on the particular virus that his wife had inadvertently infested the PC with. It would have been sort of hard to come up with the right fix without having access to the latest information online.

We'll see, I need to decide soon what I'm going to do. I was thinking about asking the employee to split the difference with me. I'm still not sure.

well it would be unprofessional to show up and expect him to provide you a desktop machine.

im with you on this, but im sorry to say i think its a write-off. :-\

eh, what the hell, send him a bill, LOL

Maybe you should consider creating a policy for this sort or thing. Ensure whoever you are working with knows this and agree's to it. With some kind of agreement like that, you could have easily had your $80 back legally.

Originally posted by DaveNET

We'll see, I need to decide soon what I'm going to do. I was thinking about asking the employee to split the difference with me. I'm still not sure.

DUDE!; Let...it...GO! Move on! You win some and you lose some in this world... I wonder how may clients you could have gotten walking door-to-door in a shopping center soliciting prospects in the time you have spent posting to this thread! Don't be penny wise and dollar foolish! I have discovered that many times chiselers get what they pay for evetually. Plus, if you diplomatically let it drop, and bide your time, he may be back. How many times have I seen a difficult client walk and then come back with his hat in his hand after learning he had a better deal to begin with.

Leave it.

Phil

I have been in business about 2 years and have had 1 client who just refused to pay for services rendered. She was just a huge problem and I spent about 2 months trying to get payment. I managed to get partial payment, but she still owed about $400. She was a very unpleasant person to deal with and we were constantly involved in arguments. This created a very stressful situation for me.

I called my attorney who informed me that since she wasn't in the same state, I couldn't file small claims. A larger lawsuit would require more time and money. I was ready to go ahead just to see this person get what she deserved.

But I didn't. I realized my time was worth a lot more and that sooner or later in business you will find a client that doesn't pay and you can't collect. The only people that really profit in the long-run are the lawyers. So I just dropped it and continued expanding my business and spending time where it would be more useful.

Pick your battles wisely. Just my 2 cents.