Blantant Fraud



Hi,

I'd just like to detail my experiences with Court Kizer, who works for Frontserve.com.
I recently paid Court $800 to design a website for my new hosting business. As a new company, this was a considerable amount of money to pay.
Court was also recommended to me by a good friend, and was trusted by us.
The services promised by Court weren't rendered, he said firstly due to a hardware problem, then due to a family death, then due to him moving to San Diego.
He agreed that he wouldn't be able to render the services we required and agreed to refund our money in full once he arrived in San Diego.
The refund never happened.
We filed a complaint with PayPal and PayPal refunded us $0.21. Yep, 21 cents.
We also aquired his cell phone number.
When we call this number, he picked up and spoke with us for a short while.
When he was told who he was talking to, he started saying 'hello? hello?' like he had bad reception. He then hung up the phone, laughing.
We called again, and he just laughed more, and hung up.

We're writing off the money as a loss, which is a major dent in our companies plans, as we're now broke.
I HIGHLY advise you don't do business with frontserve.com, who also will not return our emails and will not provide us with their "24/7 support phone number" or Court Kizer, who has proven himself to be one of the lowest most disreputable people on this planet.

:angry:
If any of you have any ideas or suggestions on how we might get our money back, feel free to share them with us.
I'm going to post this story on every webhosting forum I can find, as well as filing a complaint with the BBB against Frontserve, because as far as I'm concerned, Court is an employee of Frontserve, which implicates them, too.:angry:


P.S to Courts Buddy whom said he isn't this type of person in the last posts. So much for your great heroic effort to save his name.Next time don't defend someone who will end up making you look like a liar and extremly Gullable .

That's cold man.
er, on Court's count.

I don't blame ya for bein' upset about 'that'.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
That's cold man.
er, on Court's count.

I don't blame ya for bein' upset about 'that'.

Go after his assetts, his employment forms must detail his addresses and former references, check with them once you find out who they are and don't mention he owes you anything. Just find out what he owns first. Good luck!

Did PayPal take it out of your credit card? If so get on the phone with your bank/credit card company and let them know you what to dispute the charge for services not rendered.

If PayPal is linked to a checking account/debit card I don't know if you can dispute it and get a chargeback.

Give me the designer cell phone number and I can call and ask for quote, call my credit card company and setup a $1,000 specialmoney and try bullcrap around here and see if he will do the same thing to me and if it does, I will requestmy phone company to remove call charges becuase i never call them

so everything to me is free :D :D

just kidding


Hope you will get him caugh and not happen it again to anyone!!!!!!

Yikes.... Sorry about that.
I'm surprised you gave him all 800 upfront before he had done a thing for you though!
Hopefully you can catch this guy. Give us his address and phone number, there are some people here who live in san diego :)

Originally posted by ravencorp
Blantant Fraud



Hi,

I'd just like to detail my experiences with Court Kizer, who works for Frontserve.com.
I recently paid Court $800 to design a website for my new hosting business.

As an artist myself, I hope you ream this deadbeat. This type of behavior gives legit designers a bad name.

Rule of thumb: don't hand over all the money at once. Most artists will take half now, the other half upon completion. The artist is compensated for time to figure the layout and such; the host has time to change his/her mind before committing the rest.

Hope you get your money back!

According to your statement, this sounds like blatant fraud. I would suggest that you contact the state prosecuting attorney's office in the city and state(s) where this individual resides and pursue criminal charges. Contact them in writing and by phone. You can find government office listings at smartpages.com.

I'm sure he has done or will do this again to other people, if the state doesn't pursue charges immediately, they will atleast have a complaint filed against this individual when the next victim shows up.

Finally, inform this individual and company about your plans to contact a prosecuting attorney for fraud. If he has just a little sense, he will get wise quick and return your money. Keep records of everything related to this issue including the terms of the agreement and your payment.

I wonder if you can get your money back if you take it to a small claim court.

How did you pay the $800 ? Through your CC ?

PM me if you find him and need someone to 'rough him up'.

Originally posted by Ericwenlong
How did you pay the $800 ? Through your CC ?

I think it is through Paypal (from the first post) and that's why ravencorp made a complaint to Paypal.

This is so sad :bawling:

Choon

Originally posted by ravencorp
Blantant Fraud

If any of you have any ideas or suggestions on how we might get our money back, feel free to share them with us.
I'm going to post this story on every webhosting forum I can find, as well as filing a complaint with the BBB against Frontserve, because as far as I'm concerned, Court is an employee of Frontserve, which implicates them, too.:angry:




I'm not sure what the .21 cents was that PayPal refunded you - but you CAN do a chargeback through PayPal, if you used a PayPal debit card. Call them up and tell them this is what you wish to do.

--Tina

Hi ..could you clarify a few points for me please.

Did you commission frontserve, to do your webpage, or was the agreement between you and Court Kizer?

i.e. Was Court Kizer acting as an agent for frontserve or was this a private agreement between you and Court Kizer.

If in fact the agreement was between you and Kizer, then I can't see how Frontserve can be implicated. If on the other hand, it was between you and Frontserve, and Kizer was acting as there agent, then you should be negotiating directly with frontserve.

Now, as I suspect it was between you and Kizer as I can't find any mention of webpage designing at Frontserve, was Kizer working for Frontserve when you initially commission Him to Design your web site? I ask this question as you stated that Kizer relocated to San Diego and I see frontserve is located at San Diego.

Originally posted by TheDoctor
Now, as I suspect it was between you and Kizer as I can't find any mention of webpage designing at Frontserve, was Kizer working for Frontserve when you initially commission Him to Design your web site? I ask this question as you stated that Kizer relocated to San Diego and I see frontserve is located at San Diego.

I don't know about that either, but I'm suspicious because Frontserve wouldn't answer Raven's emails too.

Would love to hear what turned out of this. Nothing burns me more than to hear about so-called web designers who commit fraud. Either they do the job or refund the money.

There's plenty of amateur artists out there who'd love to gain experience, and all it takes is a :uzi: rip-off :angry: artist to rain on their parade.

:angry: :kaioken: :angry:

Hope the guy pays up!!

It always disheartens me to see stories like this. A large amount of the relationship between a designer and client is based on trust. When people hear of the cowboys out there, they become suspicious and distrusting of people they would otherwise put their faith in to do the job right, for the right price.

Greg Moore

Yes, pretty the same as with hosts - there are many hosting clients out there which got burned.

FYI

Court Kizer does not work for FrontServe.com anymore. He quit about a month ago when this happened..

I am sure the agreement was between the customer and Court Kizer; we do not do web design jobs and we do not find customers for Court Kizer.
Court Kizer was a remote administrator who helped us with support issues that is it, he never laid a foot in our offices.

Wow, I'm gone an away from the internet for little over a month and look what happens? I cannot believe this. WTF, I'm guessing since you paypal didn't return your money or something, that you instantly assume that I frauded you. Honestly I've done a large number of websites, without ever having one problem. Thanks for presenting a one sided store line. I've emailed you several times, and also emailed vince last night since this is the first time i've had internet access in a long, long while.

Like I said when you called me last night, and then claimed i "faked" a bad connection to hang up. On the contrary it was my cellphone, and I did have a bad connection. I also returned your call and left a message.

I'm furious that you didn't call me, when before I left I'm pretty sure I gave you my contact number.

Call the number you called last night, this has to be resolved!

If you transfer funds through paypal using a debit card or a credit card you can do a dispute with your banking company and paypal will take the hit.

Paypals dispute resolution system is basically worth 0. I had to dispute 300 dollars and paypal him hawd around for about 2 months with their "investigation department" just to tell me they couldnt do anything so i told them they were going to take the loss and disputed it with my banking company and had it resolved within a few weeks with them.

So in conclusion if you used a card your ok, but if you did a direct funds transfer out of your bank account with paypal your screwed. Paypal could give half a sh**

Originally posted by ckizer
Wow, I'm gone an away from the internet for little over a month and look what happens? I cannot believe this. WTF, I'm guessing since you paypal didn't return your money or something, that you instantly assume that I frauded you. Honestly I've done a large number of websites, without ever having one problem. Thanks for presenting a one sided store line. I've emailed you several times, and also emailed vince last night since this is the first time i've had internet access in a long, long while.

Like I said when you called me last night, and then claimed i "faked" a bad connection to hang up. On the contrary it was my cellphone, and I did have a bad connection. I also returned your call and left a message.

I'm furious that you didn't call me, when before I left I'm pretty sure I gave you my contact number.

Call the number you called last night, this has to be resolved!

Responses to your so called reply below.

Well We have called many times with a No answer. You said, "you wanted to clarify this" and yet NOTHING has been done..except empty promises again.
You did not ever give us your number or we wouldnt have gone to extreme measures of trying to contact you.

Your Guessing since paypal didn't return the money or something?? or something? ( are you unsure or something?? ) I Have an email saying to someone else you emailed , something completely different. I also have a VOICE message saying something about your bank screwing things up ,which is a contradiction to what you said up here in your post.... kind of inconsistant there court.
we are Now December 20th and again still nothing. With the amount of time wasted I instantly assume i have been ripped? wouldn't you???? I think you would. you claim this is a one sided story line, yet You still haven't kept your word in returning the funds owed. I think you made the story line quiet clear and one sided yourself. You actions ( really lack there of ) have spoken louder than anything I said.
I really want 2 see what story you will conjeur up this time.

Thanks for ripping me off court I seriously appreciate it, Oh btw You thinking what I said about comming down there and taking action against you was a Threat? I would think again. I never threatend harm to you physically so , in your diluted mind of thinking that is wrong, but whatever. I will be speaking to you soon enough, in that seeing you. I have enough information now to finish these claims.

oh yea and merry christmas. Thanks again Court.

Originally posted by AffordableHost



I'm not sure what the .21 cents was that PayPal refunded you - but you CAN do a chargeback through PayPal, if you used a PayPal debit card. Call them up and tell them this is what you wish to do.

--Tina

They refunded that much because theyn decided in Ravens favor, but they won't take the money our of CKIzer's CC or bank, they will only send what he has in his PayPal balance, which must have been $.21.

I think that's how it goes anyway.


Also, Ckizer.. if you're back now, refund the money ASAP, and have that be for the most part the end of it. He hasn't got what he paid you for, and returning his money should be no problem. There is no need for clarification on anything, he didn't get what he paid for, so you don't get paid. It's simple.

Look just give them their money back. That was everybody goes home happy and you gain a little face back. One thing I will say is I am having Greg from Akashik do me a site and I have had no problems at all. He started out without a dime. We talked for hours about what I wanted. Put up a few ideas on his server for me to look at. We changed a few things and off he went with building my site. I gave him a little of what I owe him as soon as he showed me somthing I liked. I am not beating the drum for Greg, I am just saying there are still some good graphics/web people out there. I am sorry this happened to you and hope this all gets figured out.

ravencorp, have you tried doing a chargeback?

Yes we tried a charge back and recieved a whole whopping 21 cents. He cleaned his account out. Visa also wont refund the money on the matter , we did pay witha credit card but they said go after him through paypal and or filing charges. Paypal agree'd in our favour but again all they could refund was what was in his paypal account. 21 cents.

Aaagh, people like that really make me angry. They give the hosting and design industry a bad name. :angry:

Originally posted by ckizer
Wow, I'm gone an away from the internet for little over a month and look what happens? I cannot believe this.

In the real world, we don't just leave our clients hanging for over a month, and then wonder why they're mad. :D

I have two solutions for the original poster of this thread.

There are currently two ways that we could go about to help you in your loss.

If you would contact me directly we can discuss how we can mitigate your damages.

This sounds like a one sided conversation so I will refrain from holding judgement but if it is a site that you seek, I have solutions to recoup the services you needed.

Please respond to this thread with a way to contact you and I will reply.

I heard cases where PayPal took money from the person's bank when there's a chargeback. Doesn't someone from PayPal post here all the time? He should answer some of these questions as to how refund works.

Originally posted by Samuel Mann
I have two solutions for the original poster of this thread.

There are currently two ways that we could go about to help you in your loss.

If you would contact me directly we can discuss how we can mitigate your damages.

This sounds like a one sided conversation so I will refrain from holding judgement but if it is a site that you seek, I have solutions to recoup the services you needed.

Please respond to this thread with a way to contact you and I will reply.


Response below.

A Site was required back in September when the deal was made. Come a few months later and the contract was NOT fulfilled we (both parties) agree'd that a refund was appropriate.
This is what I am requiring. I'm not going to have this drag on anymore. I found another party who fulfilled his obligation on our site. We just want my money back. Its more than fair considering the Months that have gone by. Read page1 and see the whole story. It sems one sided cause it is one sided as i stated above.
I can be reached via email @ tony@ravencorpsolutions.com or icq 5079141.

Since you site has been created there is nothing I can suggest? than to consider legal means in resolving your loss.

Hi!

I have quoted this from the original poster:

"We filed a complaint with PayPal and PayPal refunded us $0.21. Yep, 21 cents. "


Correct me if I am wrong, I have heard about two (2) to three (3) similar stories about paypal. I don't know if the "rumor" is correct but the prevalent story tells of paypal "taking" the chargeback themselves? and just return to you a meager, (yup 21 cents just about that) amount.

Shouldn't you be complaining against paypal instead? I mean Paypal should have an efficient system for a refund for a service not rendered.

With regards to the original offender, let Paypal run after him! I want to see Paypal properly refund you the money and Paypal run over the guy for you. If Paypal can do that, then my perception perhaps will change.

I have not used Paypal however, since I live in a country that is not covered with their service. So in a way, I cannot fully say the merits of Paypal service. Some may have great experiences with them. And I don't disregard that possibility too.

I am suggesting and voicing out my opinions only. It is up for you to consider it or not at all.

Furthermore, I still want to see the original offender got jailed or something. I hope you can find a way to get him arrested.

Good luck!

:)

Was there a contract signed.

Was there anything in writing??

Call a lawyer and sue him for damages rendered.

Why play games if business cant be done a level playing field bring lawyers into the picture, it usually changed peoples attitudes.

Not that i am sue happy but I hate people that waste my time, so i cant even imagine how you must feel.

Simple resolution, return the money, because he obviously didnt get what he paid for, or go to court.

Joe

Our Buyer Complaint process only allows us to recover from the PayPal account balance when there is a dispute (and it does not guarantee recovery).

Chargeback recovery is an entirely separate process from the Buyer Complaint one.

Please let me know if I can clarify.

Yes, please clarify.

I don't understand how you come up with $.21 as a refund? That is a total insult. When someone's trying to get $800 back, why would you give them $.21? I can see like $400, or $200, but $.21 that's just adding insult to injury.

I get it, the riper off er only had $.21 in his account, so that's all you could refund.

Originally posted by paypaldamon
Our Buyer Complaint process only allows us to recover from the PayPal account balance when there is a dispute (and it does not guarantee recovery).

Chargeback recovery is an entirely separate process from the Buyer Complaint one.

Please let me know if I can clarify.

My first thought is that the customer has more recourse than the seller which is sorta lop sided.

Please clarify Chargeback recovery

Thanks

Maybe we should have a new site called YDS(your designer sucks) just like YHS. :D

BTW, I really think you should sue this guy.

This is the same exact problem I am having with Chris Gentile from Technohoax...er....Technohosts. I signed up for service spent 3 months on their servers and then transfered because they were down more times than up. He has promised me a refund because he was unable to hold up his end of the service, yet everytime I contact him regaurding it I get the same old song and dance where he tells me, oh it will be done next week, or tomorrow, or tonight, or I will do it ASAP. Yet here it is a months and a half later and I still am yet to see a penny. And if I call him on it by threating to tack on penalty charges he does the patented "No you won't, I wont go with that" and log off routine.

And if you think this is just an isolated case, do a search for Technohosts and you will find other people whose claims support mine.

http://www.paypalwarning.com

Of course, none of this is very surprising when you consider that Paypal, Inc. publicly admits "we have limited experience in managing and accounting accurately for large amounts of customer funds." Their EMail "customer service" is also outsourced to a company in New Delhi, India. Additionally, regulatory authorities in four states (California, New York, Idaho and Louisiana) are investigating whether PayPal, Inc. is engaged in a banking business because of their customers' ability to retain a balance for future transfers. Because Paypal is not licensed as a bank, they are not permitted to engage in a banking business! (Source, IPO Prospectus) This could spell REAL trouble for anyone with funds "deposited" in Paypal.com!.

This website is a collection of horror stories, news reports and other information addressing problems with Paypal, Inc.. While we do not have the resources to verify each and every complaint we receive, we do believe that all reports posted here are true based on our own experience with Paypal and the growing number of corroborating horror stories we receive every day.

We filed a complaint with PayPal and PayPal refunded us $0.21. Yep, 21 cents.

WOW thats alot of money.
that a tough break,its to bad that you never know who to trust over the web