Two years ago I found Remarkable Hosting (now ILON Hosting) through WHT, and arranged an ensim-based virtual private server to host a handful of sites. In the beginning I found them to be very helpful and I was extremely happy with the arrangement. Around a year ago things changed -- they became not nearly as helpful, we had some problems with our server going down unexpectedly, the occasional support ticket garnered a fairly rude response. The server problem was eventually rectified, however, and it's been relatively problem-free ever since then.

Then a couple of weeks ago on March 6, exactly one week before the end of the billing cycle, we were sent the following e-mail from ILON, completely out of the blue:


Hello,

As you know ILON Hosting took over accounts last year from Remarkable Hosting. We are in the process of converting the Ensim WEBppliance VPS accounts to a new VPS hosting system. We are requiring our customers to signup for a new VPS at (link)

You can choose the Plesk Option, for $75 you can have a 10 domain license of Plesk PSA, or by default you will get our VivaCP, (link)

The server you are currently hosted on will be shutdown in 14 days. If you require more time we can manually move the VPS to another server for the time being.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.


WTF? Needless to say, I was dismayed to find out that ILON was shutting down my server with 2 weeks notice (longer if required). I checked the new VPS options via the supplied link and was further dismayed to find that the only plan with the same bandwidth etc as my existing one costs $10 more per month than what I was already paying, and comes with a $50 setup fee. OK, so it's only $10 a month but it's the principle of the thing. I also checked the default VivaCP control panel option, only to discover that it's some home-brewed control panel that's in no way comparable feature-wise to Ensim, Plesk, cPanel, etc. I thought the whole thing was fairly upsetting but I sent a reply the next day with a few questions and received the following reply which answered a few of them and (I feel) completely ignored the others:


> Hello,

> 1. As an existing customer, do I have to pay the listed setup fees to
> move to this new VPS system?
The setup fee can be waived with the coupon code SETUP01


> 2. Am I responsible for moving all of our files/databases/site configs
> ourselves with no help from Ilon?

We can help with the data, however you would be responsible for setting up the domains/users/email accounts on the new server

> 3. Am I going to have to pay more to get the same service I have now?
> At the moment (for 79.95/mo) I have 7 IP addresses allocated, 50GB of
> bandwidth per
> month, access to the ensim reseller interface, etc. Will it cost more to
> maintain the same service? Do I have to pay to keep the same IP addresses?
> If not, what kind of site downtime should I expect as a result of the
> change
> while DNS entries are updated?

If you order the equivalent server at the same monthly rate there will be no charges for IPs etc..

> 4. Does the new VPS system provide the same features as the existing
> one? For example, do I still have root access via the shell?
The new VPS will not have Ensim. We can give you our VivaCP control panel for free. (link) If you need more power and features, Plesk 7 can be provided. I can give you the 10 domain version for free or the 30 domain version for $75. These rates are highly discounted for the Plesk. You can have root access via SSH.

> 5. Am I going to lose any custom server configuration? For example, I
> had perl upgraded on the server, spamassassin installed and
> configured, and various other customized changes. Do I have to find
> someone to perform all of this work again?

The new server can be installed with all the same programs. It comes default with perl 5.6.1 and Spamassassin/MailScanner/Clamav

====

If you need help with migrating the databases we can help. Moving the DBs are really no problem.


> I may be reading it all wrong, but it seems I am being shut down and
> asked to start over from scratch. If I have to pay setup fees, plus
> an additional fee to have more IPs, plus pay someone to move all my
> sites and redo all my
> custom upgrades, I am really going to be paying out a lot of money... and
> it
> seems there is no guarantee that I won't have to do the same thing in a
> year
> or two. I understand these things happen in the world of hosting
> companies
> and I've been really happy with my hosting since I started with
> Remarkable,
> but I dread the thought of starting over. It will probably take me more
> than
> the 2 allotted weeks to find someone who can set up the databases of my
> sites and reconfigure everything again. Thanks in advance for any clarity
> you can provide.


OK, at least the $50 setup fee can now be waived and I can get some help transferring the data although I'm apparently going to have to manually configure all the sites again, set up email etc. (which constitutes some hassle on my part, but OK). I can keep the IPs I already paid for if I order the equivalent server at the same price, even though they don't actually offer the equivalent server at the same price (I assume I can keep my IPs if I order the more expensive server, however). ILON offered to replace my Ensim control panel with VivaCP (thanks) or alternatively (and more graciously) with a 10-domain Plesk license for free, or a 30-domain license for only $75. My question about what happens to any existing custom server setup/configuration was answered simply with "it comes default with perl 5.6.1 and Spamassassin/MailScanner/Clamav" and the assurance that I could install the same programs (more hassle on my part, but OK). My questions about costs, the reseller interface, potential downtime etc. were simply ignored, but they did indicate that I could take longer than 2 weeks if I needed to.

(continued)

(continued from above)

Maybe I'm wrong, but is this any way to treat a client? The more I thought about it the angrier I became. They're going to shut down my server a week into a new billing cycle, after I've paid for the entire month? They're going to make me sign up for a new VPS at a higher price in order to maintain the same level of service? They're going to eliminate my reseller interface entirely, and replace my control panel with some new home-grown free one (or Plesk, at a discount)? And to top it all off, I get the bonus hassle of having to set up all the sites again and re-do any custom server configuration? To hell with that. In the end I decided to simply let ILON shut down my server as they indicated they were going to do, and not sign up for a new VPS account -- in the interim I arranged a new dedicated server elsewhere and spent a weekend moving my sites there instead.

So yesterday I randomly checked my old ILON server and was somewhat surprised to see it was still running (with the Ensim control panel, no less). I sent ILON the following email:


Because of your email warning of impending account termination I moved all of my sites to a new host last week. I note that although the two-week grace period has elapsed, my ILON server (208.186.xxx.xxx) is still active. Please feel free to shut it down at your convenience and do not bill my credit card for any further monthly charges. I have already been billed for the current month ending April, 13, 2004. Since my account termination/server shutdown was initiated by ILON and because I've decided not to sign up for a new account with Ilon, I would greatly appreciate a refund/credit to my credit card for the balance of charges for the current month.

Thanks in advance,


Shortly thereafter I received the following reply:


Hello,

I am sorry, there will be no refund. Our cancellation policy requires a 30 day notice. We consider the email you sent a cancellation.

We did not terminate your account nor did we threaten to terminate your account. The word 'terminate' was not even in the notice I sent to you. You were offered assistance in moving to the new VPS system and more time if needed. In fact when I did not hear from you we moved your VPS to a new server more than 10 days ago.

Your account was never in any danger of being terminated.

Your billing has been canceled as requested.


Try to imagine my reaction. Have I somehow misinterpreted something here? They said they were shutting down my server in 2 weeks, and that I'd have to sign up for a new VPS. Even without the implication that my old account would cease to exist automatically, they gave me 14 days in which to provide a 30-day cancellation notice (which didn't seem necessary anyhow, given all the unexpected "shutting down" and everything). I sent the following futile reply:


Hello again,

I would like to refer you to your original e-mail of March 6 which states very clearly:

"The server you are currently hosted on will be shutdown in 14 days."

and

"We are in the process of converting the Ensim WEBppliance VPS accounts to a new VPS hosting system. We are requiring our customers to signup for a new VPS at (link)"

I agree that you never actually used the term "terminate" in your original e-mail. However your notice clearly states that my server would be shut down on March 20, and that I would be required to sign up for a new VPS. I interpret "shut down" in the conventional sense, i.e. that the server will essentially be turned off, and I interpret "required to sign up for a new VPS" to mean that my existing account would become void and cease to exist. That constitutes termination of service by ILON with two weeks notice, with an option for the customer to sign up again for an entirely different plan on a different server, with a different control panel and software. My original service plan with Remarkable is no longer even offered by ILON: to get the same features I'm forced to pay a higher monthly fee ($89 vs. $79). My existing ensim control panel is replaced by a new home-brewed option, and the reseller interface is eliminated entirely. ILON may not be calling it "terminating my account": apparently it's simply "shutting down my server" and "requiring" me "to sign up for a new VPS" at a higher price, with a control panel I don't want, no reseller interface, and the hassle of re-configuring a new server. It begs the obvious question of what happens to my non-terminated account if I don't exercise my option to sign up for a new VPS?

I do appreciate your March 7 reply to my questions about the original e-mail, in which you offered to waive the $50 setup fee I'd normally incur for the inconvenience of having to switch servers/plans, and I do sincerely appreciate the offer to help with moving the databases etc. to the new server -- I realize that it's more than a lot of other hosts would offer. I also appreciate the revised offer of a free 10-site Plesk license instead of the $75 option you listed in your original e-mail, since I was frankly not interested in the default VivaCP option. All things considered, however, signing up for a new VPS was not an attractive option in the end and I opted to simply let the server be shut down as per your original email, and not sign up for a new account.

I honestly don't understand why ILON would send a notice that my server would be shut down in 14 days -- one week into a new billing cycle -- and then have the audacity to suggest that the account was terminated at *my* request. I respectfully reiterate my request for a refund of the fees paid for the remainder of the current billing period which began on the 13th of this month; since the server was shut down today (not on March 20 as originally indicated) only 10 days of hosting were actually provided, leaving a balance of 21 days.

Regards,


Of course I don't realistically expect a refund from ILON, although I certainly feel I'm entitled to one and I felt it was important to make the point. This morning I received another reply from ILON:


My position stands. I am sorry if this is going to sound harsh. Your claim is ridiculous and does not stand up. You are trying to read between the lines and there is nothing there. We did not terminate your account; you were never in danger of having your account terminated. You were moved to another server to give you more time as stated in my original email. The physical server you were located on needed to go off line. There were other servers available for you to be hosted on.

You forgot to quote me on this line.
" If you require more time we can manually move the VPS to another server for the time being."

Your server was shutdown last night due to your request and your request only. Our cancellation policy is clear. We require a 30 day notice. There are no refunds during this time. You should have provided notice when you made the decision to move the sites, not after.


Am I in the twilight zone? At this point I've given up on writing to them -- it's fairly pointless and in my opinion their position is both (to use their own term) "ridiculous" and (to use mine) "offensive". I have nothing more to do with this company, unless they actually have the gall to try and bill me for next month using their "30-day notice" policy.

Forget the refund issue -- this whole experience is an object lesson in how to not handle customer relations, and the tone taken by ILON throughout is typical of their current way of conducting business.

I found Remarkable (and my new host) through the feedback and experience of WHT users, so I'm posting my own experience back here in case it helps anyone else. It's unfortunate since aside from the occasional rude email or support ticket response we've (generally) had few problems with the actual hosting services provided by ILON/Remarkable for the last two years. I recommended Remarkable to a couple of other people who are currently hosting with ILON (at least until their servers are shut down), but I wouldn't recommend them again -- the good reputation they earned when they first started up hasn't been applicable since their name change.

robp

Hello,

Rob. My notice to Aimee was very clear and you are not proving all the information.

What I said was:

The server you are currently hosted on will be shutdown in 14 days. If you require more time we can manually move the VPS to another server for the time being.

To quote you:
I do appreciate your March 7 reply to my questions about the original e-mail, in which you offered to waive the $50 setup fee I'd normally incur for the inconvenience of having to switch servers/plans, and I do sincerely appreciate the offer to help with moving the databases etc. to the new server -- I realize that it's more than a lot of other hosts would offer. I also appreciate the revised offer of a free 10-site Plesk license instead of the $75 option you listed in your original e-mail, since I was frankly not interested in the default VivaCP option. All things considered, however, signing up for a new VPS was not an attractive option in the end and I opted to simply let the server be shut down as per your original email, and not sign up for a new account

What we offered was very accommodating and I understand you have the choice to do what ever you want. The fact is that VPS was moved to another server to provide you with more time. Your VPS was NEVER in any danger of being shutdown. I never said the account was going to be terminated.

I am sorry you took the email regarding upgrading your account the wrong way.

I didn't think there were all that many ways to take it. I understand and appreciate that you moved the server to another box to provide more time for me to sign up for a new VPS (maybe it would have made a difference had I actually been notified about it, although probably not) but it's really not the point.

Also the choice of the word "upgrading" is interesting. Assuming I opted to sign up for a new VPS at the same price I'd be getting less bandwidth per month, losing the reseller interface entirely, and replacing an established, commercial control panel (ensim) with a brand new, home-brewed one (VivaCP) that doesn't have the same feature set. Or with Plesk, as long as I kept it to 10 domains or less or paid extra. It seems a little like "upgrading" from a Honda Accord to a Civic, somehow.

Anyway I appreciate the feedback but I still maintain my original position and leave the whole experience as an anecdote for other readers to consider.

robp

i dont see what is wrong with therealrobp since it is not quite fair that he need to pay more for the plesk as what he is paying before.

therealrob is completely right and ILON hosting is conducting itself in a very unprofessional manner.

I completely understand that a company has policies for refunds and they should be enforced, but when you are telling someone their server is going to be taken offline and they need to go to a sign up link that pretty much equates to termination. Even if you don't believe so, you must do everything possible to make your customers satisfied during the transition period such as a move and not try to nickel and dime them by not refunding. I don't even think you can call this a move, as it appears to be a severe downgrade of service.

Your reputation will greatly suffer and you should really try to get your act together, because service like that doesn't deserve new customers.

Perhaps "upgrading" was the wrong word to use above.



maybe it would have made a difference had I actually been notified about it, although probably not


We were going to notify you, but Aimee canceled the account the very same night before we had the chance.

Anyway. I am sorry we did not explain ourselves very well and we will change the wording in the future to make it more clear when asking a customer to move to a new system.

Rob. Good luck. I hope you find refuge at your new host.

Am I to understand that ILON was planning to send a notification that very night -- three days after our server was supposed to have been shut down -- that our stuff was actually moved to another server more than 10 days prior, and the reason we didn't get a notification in that intervening 10-day period was because my wife "cancelled the account" right before it could be sent? That is just... remarkable. I'll chalk it up to amazing coincidence, I guess.

Thanks for the well-wishes, I hope things work out better for your other customers.

robp

I am in agreement with therealrobp! I have been with Remarkable / ILON for about 3 years, when they switched the company name to ILON my VPS became a nightmare. The ensim package and interface I was paying for has not run in over a year. I was never even contacted letting me know they no longer supported ensim. I now have to do all admin from the shell even know my package I am still paying the same price for included ensim when I signed up. Lucky for me I know my way around the shell, I feel for the customers that don’t. Since the VPS still has a non-functional version of ensim on it, the directory structure is hard to deal with and far different than any Linux box. I have yet had the chance to use the use the “home brewed” VivaCP panel as it has not been offered to me. I also have dealt with the rude condescending responses that therealrobp has. They are so over the top, as you are reading them or listening on the phone your jaw just drops.

I have referred six family and friends who all host or hosted with Remarkable, my name is mud because of the way the company now treats their customers. It has hurt my reputation professionally and personally. Two of them have left, the other four are waiting for me to move so they can follow. How a hosting company that was outstanding just 14 months ago and lives financially by referrals could shoot themselves in the foot is beyond my understanding.

I would not Recommend Remarkable / IlON to anyone looking for a host.


Univacus

My experience with Remarkable is that they have a couple of really good tech people who hold the place together. However, the decision makers are very indifferent, arrogant and even rude. Wasn't like that before. Something definitely happened to the spirit of that company, and it's not good.

By way of update to the story above, ILON just billed me for another month of non-service -- after originally notifying me that they were shutting down my server and then cancelling my account at what they call "my request". Sigh. These guys really are "remarkable" -- and not in the good way.

I'm currently debating whether I should bother disputing ILON's fraudulent charge at the credit card company. Maybe it's better to just cancel my credit card before these thieving liars can bill me for another month.

My advice to anyone looking for a VPS or dedicated host is to stay as far away from ILON as possible. There are a number of other hosting companies in the same market segment that offer a superior product at a lower price, have better technical support, and don't treat their clients as poorly and unprofessionally as Mr. Feinberg does.

robp

Rob. I am sorry about that. We have refunded the charge back to your credit card. This was a mistake due having conflicting contact information. Your account was opened by Amiee and at sometime take over by you; we do not have accurate contact information. I found the account and removed the credit card from the system. The account is now closed.

BTW Your whois information is a bit misleading making it very hard to contact you.

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: CAMLIVES.COM
Administrative Contact:
Van Camme, Jean-Claude jcvancamme@hotmail.com
77 E Main St
Tucker, Georgia 30085
United States
(917) 210-6543 Fax --

Godaddy provides an option to keep your contact info private for 10 bucks a year. That's a service I use since I don't want that information to be part of the public record. Especially when said information ends up posted in a thread :rolleyes:


Robp - what you said about "rude" responses to support tickets. Don't you hate that? One of my current hosts pulls the bad attitude quite often and I won't be getting any more servers with them. The tech staff at venturesonline.com must get courtesy training becuause they go out of their way to be nice (I'm not endorsing venturesonline overall - I think there are better hosts out there - but the courtesy part deserves mention). I think a lot of hosts could use "courtesy training" for their tech departments.

Originally posted by remarkable
Rob. I am sorry about that. We have refunded the charge back to your credit card. This was a mistake due having conflicting contact information. Your account was opened by Amiee and at sometime take over by you; we do not have accurate contact information.

Thanks for the refund, I look forward to seeing it on our credit card statement.

There is no conflicting contact information; the account is and has always been in my wife's name and you have both her contact and billing information. The account was never "taken over" by me; I simply administer the box.

robp

Originally posted by techmonkey
Godaddy provides an option to keep your contact info private for 10 bucks a year. That's a service I use since I don't want that information to be part of the public record. Especially when said information ends up posted in a thread :rolleyes:

Indeed, and now you know just why I sit in awe at how rude they can be. Posting WHOIS information in a forum is just obnoxious! :crazy:

Hello everyone,
I would like to thank you all for speaking up and addressing your concerns with our service. Although we don't like to hear negative feedback about our services, respectful comments are definately needed so we can improve our service and support. We are intently listening to the feedback that all of you have provided here.

Our customers have put a lot of trust in us and we hope to keep that trust even when we find areas where we can improve. For this reason, here are a couple of action items that we have taken to address, or at least try to remedy this situation since we really do believe in the age old adage "the customer is always right".

1) Rob- I see your viewpoint and understand your frustration. If I went through what you did, I would probably move my site somewhere else also. Our intent was not to deceive. There was definately a breakdown in our communication with each other. Our information used to try to contact you was inaccurate. When this happens, our standard policy is to use the Domain's Registrar Whois to look up contact information in order to get ahold of you. When we tried this information, this too was inaccurate. So please understand our confusion. At anyrate, that is all irrelevant at this point and we wish to make ammends and show that we want to make it right. A little late? Yes, definately. We should have handled your migration more efficiently. Have we learned how to better deal with similiar circumstances? Yes. Have we missed out by loosing a customer? Yes. Am I being a little sappy about this? Yes, but with reason.. :-)

- I have credited your credit card for the mistakenly billed charge from 4/13/04. Refund Transaction ID: VCMN28120096
- I have also credited your credit card for the previous month service that was billed on 3/13/04 as an offering. Refund Transaction ID: VCMN28244111.

2) In order to help address our support, attitude, technical and any further issues, the entire ILON Team has been asked to review this thread and see how we can improve from our mistakes. We have also added another team member to help relieve some of the workload we've found ourselves under. Please help welcome our newest team member as announced here: http://support.ilonhosting.com/viewtopic.php?t=741

Thanks to all of those that have participated in this thread. I welcome that any outstanding issues that are not being resolved in a timely matter, to please email me directly and we will rectify the problem.

Take care,
Dennis Laube

Dennis,

Thanks for the gracious reply, and the additional refund of the previous month's charge. I know it wasn't necessary but I sincerely appreciate the gesture.

On the other hand the "whois" argument doesn't make a lot of sense. The contact and billing information you have on file is accurate and up to date and hasn't ever changed... clearly I've been receiving all the relevant correspondance from ILON, and clearly ILON has been successfully billing for the service. Moreover, the email address in the whois information that was posted on this thread works just fine and no mail was ever sent there by ILON. Even if our information weren't up to date, I don't see how it actually matters for the purpose of no longer billing us, or for issuing a refund to a previously-billed credit card. Anyway.

Once again I appreciate the gesture, and out of fairness I'll reiterate what I said earlier in this thread -- aside from this recent unpleasantness I was generally satisfied with the hosting provided by ILON over the past couple of years: uptime was never a serious problem and technical problems with the server were infrequent.

robp

Just to toss in my 2 cents.

I have been with Remarkable/Ilon for a few years now and have had no problems. I have had several different types of accounts and now I have a co-located system with them.

I host a couple of multi-million dollar sites with them and could afford to go anywhere and choose them

Dennis