I am wondering do you eventually own cpanel

WHat is the end value, is there a way to buy it eventually..

There are not many things that you can never own, is cpanel ownable

With Plesk i own the license, with ensim, same as well, please let me know with cpanel?????

Joe

Cpanel is a lease to use license only.

One of the reasons most of our servers are using Plesk is that we own the Plesk license.

I cant believe that you can never own cpanel

When you lease a car you can eventually own it

When you pay a mortgage 30 years later you own it

WHen you buy MICROSOFT products you eventually own it

What makes CPANEL so special????

Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
I cant believe that you can never own cpanel

When you lease a car you can eventually own it

When you pay a mortgage 30 years later you own it

WHen you buy MICROSOFT products you eventually own it

What makes CPANEL so special????

Joe
I Agree!
Darkorb needs to review the scheme on licenses.

Chris

You never own any product, don`t be confused with 1 time lisc fees vs renting.

microsoft lisc is to 1 computer - and must remove it form that computer if you want to install it.

Plesk is based on users / or servers

You never own any product..

whether you pay 600.00 to plesk , 400.00 a year support ect..

Cpanel / Webpanel is good for what it is..

I have mixed views about cpanel <as a host who uses> Plesk and a ensim <edit>, but it isnt even cost effective to use cpanel on my servers outside the few places...

Its really not right and very unethical of cpanel and the companies who are behind it to charge the way they do.

Now if cpanel said our software is $700 and you own it, thats fine, but this is nuts, $99 per server for the rest of my companies existance is just nuts...

Sorry cpanel but this truly sucks and is truly wrong, and 100% totally unheard off. I honestly can not think of any company or product like this..

Also William, <with> Plesk if I go buy the license for plesk 2.0 right now I own it. I dont have to pay any reoccuring charges. It becomes a asset of mine, I can turn around and sell it if I may. Cpanel can not do that...Its never a asset and always a expense. How is that right.

In this case while many hate Microsoft, cpanel is by far worse for what they do, they truly do screw the customer...

Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
. . . .What makes CPANEL so special????. . . . .$$$$$$$$$

And don't even get me started on the licensing practices of some companies :rolleyes:

Originally posted by JBIZ718
. . . .I honestly can not think of any company or product like this.. . . . .mmm . . . . Jelsoft ????:angry:

I agree Joe!
Say you have 3 servers operating Cpanel and you have been on them for say 6 months that is $1,800


Chris:(

The issue on Jelsoft though does give you the right to own it:
Leased License - $85

A leased license grants you the right to run vBulletin on one web server and one web site for each license purchased for 1 year from date of order. Each license may power one instance of vBulletin on one domain. During the year, you will have unlimited access to the member area, where you can download updated versions of the software. At the end of the year, you must purchase another license in order to continue to run vBulletin.

Owned License - $160

An owned license grants you the right to run on one web server and one web site for each license purchased for an unlimited time. Each license may power one instance of vBulletin on one domain. Included in this package is one year's access to the member area, where you can download updated versions of the software. If you require access to the member area after the year has elapsed, you can renew your access for $30 per year.
--

--

Cpanel never gives you this option. You will be paying for cpanel for the rest of your life and will never own it, have the rights to it, and or any value features. Overall you get totally screwed by cpanel, and they know it, and someone needs to end this. ITS JUST WRONG... MAybe it should be Cpanelsoft

Creig, you are 150% right. WHile with plesk you might pay the 1800 for the license, but you own it. It is yours and will not pay another dime if you opt not too

Joe

Also
If Cpanel wants to HELP web hosting company's and not kill them, I think they should change there price structure. So they can have the benefit of saying "Helping Web Hosts grow since 19whatever" And not Helping web hosts have more overhead....

my 0.02

Chris

.

Originally posted by JBIZ718 removed

Hmmmm
Is that offical?Is it in web hosting mag?
;)

Chris:stickout

Originally posted by JBIZ718
. . . . . MAybe it should be Cpanelsoft. . . . .Don't give them any ideas.
I can see them merging:rolleyes:
Although I think you're too easy on Jelsoft (I think you missed out on the "vBulletin SUCKS!!" thread; I'll try not to mention them again. As this thread is about cPanel.

I agree with you 185%

I wouldn't even consider renting that thing. :cartman:

.

I think its worth starting a poll soon

Joe

Any host that cannot afford the $25/mo. to run the webpanel software has alot more to worry about than just that. How is it unethical just because you dont agree with it? If the product wasnt worth what they charge than people wouldnt buy it. If you find it unethical than dont use their product, its as simple as that. Thats like saying its unethical for lexus to charge $60k for a sedan because you dont have the cash to throw around to buy it. Your not buying a set product like with a word processing program, the way this industry develops the software you run has to be a constantly evolving and improving thing.

Also, it would be nice to see you start a thread without the intent to indirectly flame one of your competitors once and a while.

-Brendan

Normally I would skip this post but, here we go..

From my opinion JBIZ718, it looks like you are still not making $$. You should be on the phone with your provider asking why am I not making money.

Those that pay $100.00, pay at times 6 months in advanced, I’m so lost on how you can have the B*lls to even complain about price.

JBIZ718 I’m assuming you have been at least in business 5 -8 months by now, $100.00 a month should be spit, I would be totally embarrassed to say anything about $100.00 in a public forum. That’s 3.00 a day, you should be getting at least 3 –6 sign ups a day in this phase of your business. In a noc with “cpanel distributors its $25.00 – $35.00, that’s 1.00 a day..

The typical server should hold at minimum 300 accounts, @ say 10.00 on the low end - that’s $3000.00
Income $3,000.00
Cpanel $99.99 or $25.00
Hosting $300.00 – $500.00

Profit of $2,500.00 ish

You make money.

So please stop it, I’m really sick of it.. if you don’t like Cpanel keep mouth shut, from the complaining it tells me you really want it, but can’t afford it.

If you can’t afford it, Christ I’ll pay for it!! To help you get started!!


Sorry J I’m really really tired on how people complain about something they don’t even use..

This thread's minutes are numbered. While I don't have a problem with a general discussion about the licensing of cpanel, I will NOT allow a complete flame thread about a product that is not justified.

Cpanel is $99/mo external from what I've read. Plesk and ensim can run up to $600 one-time but that is a substantial amount of cash to put out on a server to start. I realize some of you get discounts on various contol panels but there is no reason to flame them.

If this continues, this thread will be tossed.

Originally posted by Chicken
This thread's minutes are numbered. While I don't have a problem with a general discussion about the licensing of cpanel, I will NOT allow a complete flame thread about a product that is not justified.

Cpanel is $99/mo external from what I've read. Plesk and ensim can run up to $600 one-time but that is a substantial amount of cash to put out on a server to start. I realize some of you get discounts on various contol panels but there is no reason to flame them.

If this continues, this thread will be tossed. Toss it now.

Before I say what I'm thinking.

Obviously your wrong here

To be a Plesk Gold Partner you need some cash. Its not just nothing. Due some research and you will see that it takes money.

My company is doing fine and I have used cpanel a few times, and have had techs use cpanel many times.

I dont have a problem paying 99$ a month, i have a problem with the fact that I will never own this product. It is never a asset only a expense. When I buy plesk for my price i own it, and dont pay another dime. When I buy my car, I own it...

William its not a question of how much money I make, its more of a question that people are pissed that cpanel blatently rips people off.

I mean what is the value to cpanel. Is it 1200$ for one license.

HR there is a huge difference between BUYING and paying rent on a car for the rest of your life. You dont think its a little wrong.

I am not flaming cpanel the product, i am flaming the corporations that abuse customers. People flame microsoft, and cpanel is the same

I dont think its right that In order to get a deal on cpanel i need to be in those datacenters. I dont want to be in those.

I think this is blatenly wrong. And Will My companies turned in 4 consistent record quarters, there are no complaints...I have been in the business for about 2 years, and honestly would love to add csoft to my offerings but wont raise my prices for my customers, because screwing them isnt in my business plan....

Freedom of speech is legal,
Joe

before the thread is tossed :)

I regretted that we can't buy CPanel in any way, but I also don't mind paying for it especially since I can get it cheaper (by a factor of at least two or three) at places like Site5, Burst, VDI, Liquidweb, even at Wizard. I put my box at Site5 when Site5 was having colo special and hence I got my CPanel copy for free ... Interserver also offer WebPanel/CPanel for its dedicated/colo customers for free ... However, this limits the NOC where I can choose from to colo my server/get my dedicated server. Fortunately, places like NAC/VDI has quite good network quality, though their bandwith prices are bit more expensive.... But if one day I decide to colo with rackshack (for example, since they will offer one of the cheapest colo deal), then I think $100/mo for shared hosting of 200 people would be fine ... It's good if I purchase CPanel out right, but it won't really hurt if I can get 100-200 customers on each box ... it will just add $0.5 for the cost of each customer ...

Anyway, just my very humble opinion ....
PS: would still like to see that one day we can have the option to purchase CPanel/WebPanel :D

cheers,
:beer:

Cpanel 1 time $1000.00 for life.

and people actully buy it . :)

It more like a Service, in my opinion, like bandwidth, support fees ect.. far froma rip off.

Like ips for example, "do IPS cost people money down in arin, ??

so why do they charge $2500.00 / $5000.00, $20,000 a year.

they make lots of profit..

Will lets stop with the BS

ARIN is a non-profit organization established for the purpose of administration and registration of Internet Protocol (IP) numbers for the following geographical areas:

North America,
South America,
the Caribbean and
sub-Saharan Africa.
ARIN is one of three Regional Internet Registries (RIRs) worldwide which collectively provide IP registration services to all regions around the globe. The others are:


Are the corporations behind cpanel a non for profit organization

Come on, your not even in the same league on this

Joe

This should be in a thread of it own :)

THey get payroll, they get what they need, wheres the non profit ?

The only made 5.2 million dollars

wow, i guess those subnet calculators must be on giant servers :)

http://www.arin.net/members/budget.html

William

I can almost bet if you took a cpanel ownership poll, people would rather own it then pay for it forever

Joe

Care to show me where Non profit is :)

They have a better budget than i do!!!!

The Damn Redcross workers "Don`t get paid !!! thats non Profit


REVENUE - Interest $330,000.00
TRANSFERS $31,450.00
MAINTENANCE $34,000.00
MEMBERSHIPS - non ISP's $29,000.00
CONFERENCE FEE REVENUE $5,000.00
REGISTRATIONS $4,807,500.00
IPv6 REGISTRATIONS $35,000.00
TOTAL $5,271,950.00

EXPENSE
SALARIES $1,905,360.25
FRINGE BENEFITS $762,144.10
HIRING COSTS $56,000.00
TRAVEL AND CONFERENCE $304,942.40
COMMUNICATIONS $365,719.62
COMPUTER $154,334.19
DEPRECIATION $299,802.21
RENT & OCCUPANCY $191,963.66
GENERAL OFFICE $98,600.00
LEGAL DEFENSE FUND $200,000.00
OTHER LEGAL FEES $60,000.00
ICANN SUPPORT $149,800.00
OTHER CONSULTING $299,000.00
TOTALS $4,847,666.43
Note: ARIN's fiscal year runs from July 1st to June 30th.

JBIZ, you keep paying rent on your office (assuming you have one), right? You never own that for as long as you live.

The phone company never says "Pay us such-and-such and you can own your phone line. Make all the calls you want for no additional charge."

You don't tell your customers "Give me X amount of money and you'll have your server, bandwidth and support forever and ever. No more payments."

There are many more examples.

CPanel pricing is one such revenue model. You may not like it, but it makes sense as long as it continues to grow and improve and you make money with it.

I'm sure you can "buy" your current version of Plesk and Ensim, but does that guarantee ongoing updates and bug-fixes forever? I doubt it. And maybe that's the difference that makes CPanel worthwhile.

There's my dos centavos.

Is cpanel a product or a service????

Originally posted by William
Cpanel 1 time $1000.00 for life.

Well, that's better than the $7500 Nick quoted me.

As for ownerships of software...you NEVER own the software, just the license. With the Microsoft Windows installed on your computer, you own the license, but not the software. Microsoft still owns Windows....not you.

Originally posted by alchiba
JBIZ, you keep paying rent on your office (assuming you have one), right? You never own that for as long as you live.

That depends on your agreement.

The phone company never says "Pay us such-and-such and you can own your phone line. Make all the calls you want for no additional charge."

I own my lines up to the pole

You don't tell your customers "Give me X amount of money and you'll have your server, bandwidth and support forever and ever. No more payments."

Give me a $million$ and I'll prove you wrong

There are many more examples.

CPanel pricing is one such revenue model. You may not like it, but it makes sense as long as it continues to grow and improve and you make money with it.

I'm sure you can "buy" your current version of Plesk and Ensim, but does that guarantee ongoing updates and bug-fixes forever? I doubt it. And maybe that's the difference that makes CPanel worthwhile.

At least they work properly when you get them. Granted, I didnt have probs with cpanel at vdi, but did soon as we went to nick's cpanel 4. He never fixed the major probs, I did. That was really great support I tell ya. Glad I paid for it.

There's my dos centavos.

Originally posted by Webdude
I own my lines up to the pole
Strung 'em yourself, no doubt? :)

Give me a $million$ and I'll prove you wrong
And that's stated on your Web site? I dare ya.


Granted, I didnt have probs with cpanel at vdi, but did soon as we went to nick's cpanel 4. He never fixed the major probs, I did. That was really great support I tell ya. Glad I paid for it.
So you're telling me here that owning is better than leasing. . . or what?

Originally posted by JBIZ718
Is cpanel a product or a service????

Not sure. Maybe think of it as a service and the $99 won't hurt so much. Works out better tax-wise, too. :D

Originally posted by alchiba

Strung 'em yourself, no doubt? :)

No, I had to pay for that :D

And that's stated on your Web site? I dare ya.

I said it here. Give me a $million$ bucks and I will give you a server with unlimited bandwidth and support.

So you're telling me here that owning is better than leasing. . . or what?

[/b][/quote]If I own it, I have the right to fix it by whatever means needed. It depends on the softwware. For example, vbult allows you to hack the code to improve it. Microsoft Windows doesnt..[quote][b]

Originally posted by Webdude
I said it here. Give me a $million$ bucks and I will give you a server with unlimited bandwidth and support.


I don't believe your "unlimited" claim. Cancel my order.

Did I tell you there are no refunds on million dollar orders? :D

Oh, where would you like me to send your 386 server to? I got no use for it other than a paper weight. :stickout

You are missing a major factor here:
Cpanel provides free nightly updates, security patches, and upgrades.
We are upgrading all our clients to the next major release for free...NOCSoft.
So instead of paying for every new release of the software, because yours becomes outdated...(which it does every 6 months, when new linux versions are released...which is even faster than Microsoft puts out a new product...), you pay a monthly fee (call it a subscription service it that explains it better...), and receive auto-updates of the newest releases.

Cpanel is a product, but it is also a service.
You are paying for support, upgrades, programming, security patches, updates, etc....all included in a very reasonable price.

I can see the product being unaffordable to a new hosting company, but then again, if a hosing company isn't started with enough capital to afford $99.95 per month, they have no business starting the company at all. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable hosting with a company that couldn't afford such a license. This is one of the reason there are so many fly-by-night hosts that open up one day, and go out of business the next.


Sean R.
BurstNET

I would rather see cpanel be issued how plesk and ensim our.

I think it makes people feel alot better that they have ownership in some form



Joe

Pricing of Control Panels are all approximately the same, they only have a different starting price.

A good example is when buying a car:

You can buy a Skoda starting as low as $10,000 and a Volkswagen for as low as $20,000.
But if you want the Skoda to have the same features as the Volkswagen, you will most likely have to spent another $10,000 on these additional options.


Same goes with Control Panels:

Cpanel - $1200 a year which includes upgrades and support

Plesk - $800 plus $450 for upgrades / support

So, for the first year, the pricing really is the same.
In the long run, the leasing system is more expensive, but has as an advantage that it does not affect your cash position as much when purchasing.

Originally posted by Boksoft.
A good example is when buying a car:
You can buy a Skoda starting as low as $10,000 and a Volkswagen for as low as $20,000.
But if you want the Skoda to have the same features as the Volkswagen, you will most likely have to spent another $10,000 on these additional options.

Not really a good example. First, Joes concern was ownership. Second, the Skoda has nearly the same features as a Volkswagen. They even use the same parts.

Walter,

Not sure where you buy your Skoda, but here in NL, these cars don't come with as many features as the better known brands. (altough I confess VW might be a bad example)

FYI: Ownership for both methods is the same. It gives you the right to use the software...nothing else.

It always amazes me when people complain about other companies prices. For most, it is a free world. Don't buy it. It really is that simple.

Also, the Microsoft complaint comes from the fact that they can gouge because they have no viable competition. Who really makes another OS that is idiot proof for IBM type computers? With CPanel, you have at least 10 others competing.

PS - Ensim is not one-time when you reach the ServerXchange level.

I have to admit this was a good thread about cost of running a business and the hosting management software rates. What was most interesting, is the fact that there are people whom think running a hosting company (not reseller ) is all profit and little startup cash.

I thank all that have proven those thoughts incorrectly.

I think there are many that agree with me in the fact that what cpanel and the people behind cpanel are doing is wrong

In regards to the Microsoft issue going on your justification if you cant afford it dont buy it. Maybe they have monopolized the industry but no one made you buy dont complain. But tons due. Many on this board do, and it just shows me that these people make me laugh...

As you say:"
UmBillyCord - It always amazes me when people complain about other companies prices. For most, it is a free world. Don't buy it. It really is that simple " Its the same thing with Microsoft, and other companies, but the funny thing is when you do buy a microsoft product its actually yours, unlike cpanel which it is never yours...

In regards to ensim and server xchange, you fail to mention that ensim ships a server with server xchange that you own. It also does a heck of alot more things then cpanel is even cabable of, and you are comparing two different things.

In the poll that I started, more people would have rather paid a upfront fee then to pay monthly..

I have been around for 2 years and have enough contacts and most people who dont want to touch those cpanel datacenters have agreed that its just not right how cpanel gouges you for money...

Just my thoughts, but many agree with me

Joe

For me, $100/month was pocket change. I had it running on servers I wasnt even using, and was paying that. My issue with it is that I was paying that and expected things to get fixed when there problems. With VDI, when there were probs...William and his guys stayed up all night working on the problem. I even told him to bill me, and he never did...but that's beside the point.

When we switched to Nick, we had HUGE problems. Did Nick ever attempt to resolve issues? He did by telling me certain things to do. When those didnt resolve the problems, he then started simply ignoring us while blaming the issue on such things as the linux kernel....which was NOT the problem.

When we were at VDI, our license fee was $25/month. With Nick, it was $100/month. I paid more for less service. When Nick doesnt know the answer, he doesnt even try. He simply blames it on other issues other than cpanel, and then ignores you. That's not worth $100/month. And if he is too busy due to so many hosts using cpanel, then he doesnt need more business if he cant handle what he's already got. I got tired of paying $100/month for something that didnt work properly.

And yes the problems did eventually get fixed, but only because I fixed them..

I agree the 100$ is nothing, i mean its not that that upsets me...

But I would expect that issues get resolved right away...

Joe

In regards to ensim and server xchange, you fail to mention that ensim ships a server with server xchange that you own. It also does a heck of alot more things then cpanel is even cabable of, and you are comparing two different things.

Thanks. We bought it back in January. I am well versed with SX. The point was a matter of principle. SX charges *monthly* for software use just like CPanel. You also never *own* the software.

Maybe they have monopolized the industry but no one made you buy dont complain. But tons due.

Didn't I say that? Web hosting CPS = numerous. Easy to use PC OS's = 1 or 2. You don't have much choice with OS's, so complaining is a little more easy to palette.

Please respond... I am one away from 500. :D

I thought it was obvious that the license fee for Cpanel wasn't just for the product? I always assumed it included the aspects mentioned above, such as support, upgrades, fixes, and revenue to keep the product not only fixed and supported, but to ensure that there was funds to support the time spent to improve it as well -- as with any product that is continually developed.

Personally, I believe that if a product is developed and bought and owned with no further fee's, although this doesn't grant you the privilege to have any upgrades as per improvements and new versions, that it should ensure that if you bought it, that any bugs or support needed for the version you bought are still offered as a service. I.e., if the product has problems or defects, that it's still fixed, as you should be entitled.

So, a one time fee can (or should anyway) guarantee some type of service like ensuring that any bugs are fixed and any relevant support is offered, of course, but just that you don't get any of the new versions or features. So, it's certainly viable to sell any product with a one time fee and provide fixes, patches or whatever, since they paid for the product. However, that's also not always a good incentive for the developer to continue to work out bugs and fix things, without ongoing income to justify the time spent. So, it can depend.

However, and finally, if your complaint is that you don't think it's worth the price (no matter what that "price" is) to believe that you're not getting a good product or service that you pay for as per a one time fee or an ongoing fee, I see no reason to complain about the fee. The fee is irrelevant, it's either worth it or it's not, the fee might be raised and make it no longer worth it, or it just might not be worth it for any fee. I just don't see the point or arguing about the reasons for charging an ongoing fee -- since if you get it and pay, you either want and use it, or not. If the fee is too much or just isn't worth it, don't use it or don't get it.

Certainly, ongoing fee's can be justified and are not a "rip-off" as long as there's ongoing service along with it (in my opinion) and you are aware of that and agree to it by paying the license fee (or basically that they are providing the service that you are paying for), so you then have nothing to complain about. However, if you expect a service along with the product by paying an ongoing fee and don't get it, than that's something to complain about -- but if that's the case, don't use it. I am just trying to say that I don't see any reason to say that an ongoing fee is anything to argue about or say it wrong. There's nothing wrong with it, you are the person agreeing to that aspect, or not, by using and paying for the licensing. If it's not right for you, you don't like it or agree with the reasons for an ongoing fee, don't use it -- it's not for you for that reason alone -- find a product you are more comfortable with at that point. There's just better reasons to complain about a product than how much it costs.

Hey tim

Hey... :-)

hey all

chees,
:beer:

PS: good remark from Tim

But then you have the issue of getting something, having a bunch of clients, and then realizing things dont get fixed. You then run into the problem realization that you cant just stop using it. So till you find a way out of it, you have to continue using it, and continue paying for it.

So in the end, you still pay for something where the major support issues arent being faced, simply because you now have no other choice other than losing all your clients.

Granted, there are ways out without losing all your clients, but they are costly....which is what we are currently doing. Also, just because we found a way out doesnt mean I no longer have the right to complain about cpanel. It cost us an arm and leg to get out of a bad situation, the cpanel situation..

It cost us an arm and leg to get out of a bad situation, the cpanel situation..

It cost us an arm and leg to get out of a bad situation, the Cobalt situation too.

Definitely good, valid points, I won't argue that. Of course, this is why people have to try and make the best decision when getting something, but it's not always what you thought it would be or lives up to it's reputation or just isn't right after all for whatever reason. I don't want to be accused of flaming or anything, so I'll not say anymore about it. However, indeed, it's an unfortunate situation to be in, be stuck in and have to deal with all the aspects of changing, which can be costly and take much time as well.

Though, definitely a good, relevant point, but no matter if you pay for a product one time and own it or pay an ongoing fee, that issue is still just as much of an issue. Unless, of course, you end up paying more for the ongoing fee while you make these changes. Also, that's assuming that owning the product doesn't entitle you any access to the source code of the program so you can fix it (or even if licensing offered that option, to resolve such problems). Still, even with that, it might not be scalable, easily changed or modified to be able to be fixed anyway. I'm not sure any way around that aspect, other than to make a good choice, and you can't know until you use it and any opinions will be so conflicting anyway, it'd surely turn into a "flame war" thread. I was just trying to think of any reasons that was all relevant to the ongoing fee as compared to the owning fee, so I suppose there's more points, or more detailed points to it, but I think it still comes down to the product and service, more than the pricing structure -- but I'm not sure anyone's disagreeing with that being the main issue of any software.

Originally posted by JBIZ718
I think there are many that agree with me in the fact that what cpanel and the people behind cpanel are doing is wrong

I think there are some issues being mixed in this thread. I thought the thread was about the way that cpanel (various forms of, called whatever) is charged.

Although issues of support and bug fixes are related, charging monthly verses charging a one-time fee is not 'wrong' it is different. This model may also extend to other forms of software in the future (subscription based instead of one-time larger license purchases).

If adobe offered photoshop full for $650 and another company offered a similar photo editing program as a subscription for $100/mo., then it would just be different. I cannot see how people can proclaim one method to be 'wrong' and the other 'right'.

Jbiz, here's a little simple item that even you can do: don't like something? Don't get it. But stop trying to run everybody else's business or put them down just because you don't agree with what they're doing. Why the mods don't chop you off at the knees escapes me.

First of all its a free country to say as you wish.

Second what gives you any right.

I have been in business for 2 years and have some very happy customers. I think i do a good job...

Just as I dont have to buy it, if you dont like what is said dont read it or post too it...

I also have not mentioned anything about controlling anyones business. Many people post many things on this board about not liking business practices, should the mods shut down every post.

Sorry, but grow up a little

Joe

To be fair, exactly how long would it be until we got a report to shut down a thread that compared nomonthlyfees' plans to intenseinfo's plans? Just a (changed) repost of this thread, with a few key phrases in bold that I'm sure would get the report in my inbox within minutes and screaming...


I am wondering do you eventually own intenseinfo's webplan1
WHat is the end value, is there a way to buy it eventually..
There are not many things that you can never own, is webplan1 ownable
With nomonthlyfees i own the plan, with someothernomonthlyfeehost, same as well, please let me know with webplan1?????

<someone posts that you can't own webplan1>

Odd
I cant believe that you can never own webplan1
When you lease a car you can eventually own it
When you pay a mortgage 30 years later you own it
WHen you buy MICROSOFT products you eventually own it
What makes intenseinfo so special????

<post agreeing with above>

<post by Joe explaining why intenseinfo charges monthly>

I have mixed views about webplan1 <as a person who uses> nomothlyfees and someothernomonthlyfeehost, but it isnt even cost effective to use webplan1...

Its really not right and very unethical of intenseinfo to charge the way they do.

Now if intenseinfo said our webplan is $300 and you own it, thats fine, but this is nuts, $20/mo for the rest of my companies existance is just nuts...

Sorry intenseinfo but this truly sucks and is truly wrong...

Also Joe, <with> nomonthlyfees if I go buy the package right now I own it. I dont have to pay any reoccuring charges. It becomes a asset of mine, I can turn around and sell it if I may. webplan1 can not do that...Its never a asset and always a expense. How is that right.

In this case while many hate Microsoft, intenseinfo is by far worse for what they do, they truly do screw the customer...

<post>
<post>
<post agreeing>

Intenseinfo never gives you this option. You will be paying for webplan1 for the rest of your life and will never own it, have the rights to it, and or any value features. Overall you get totally screwed by intenseinfo, and they know it, and someone needs to end this. ITS JUST WRONG... MAybe it should be webplan1suck

<post agreeing>

<removed flame post>

<post agreeing>

<removed flame post>


...and this is just the first page. I don't think I'd consider this fair of someone to post and honestly, the more I read this thread, the less I think it should remain open.

On page two, we then come to (just a few lines that I thought would get me a report)...

I think its worth starting a poll soon

Joe, its not a question of how much money I make, its more of a question that people are pissed that intenseinfo blatently rips people off.

Now, on page three you say, "I would rather see cpanel be issued how plesk and ensim our" ('our' should be 'are').

Now this seems to be the point, and one I can not only understand, but in part agree with (at least in terms of an option). *This* would have made for a nice discussion, and it would have been interesting to see the level of interest among the hosts here about this possibility. The comments I've included above completely break the thread towards a different topic, and as I said, if the tables were turned, you'd be a steamed clam.

I truly hate you chicken for this...

I hope that rum gets you so drunk you puke


Keep in mind that I provide a service and cpanel is a product...Very big difference

I still hate you though

Joe

You don't hate me. I think you have some good topics, they just aren't presented well in order to have a fair and meaningful discussion.

I say this thread gets tossed in the garbage and you start a new one explaining your interest in a one-time fee cpanel licensing model (and your reasons for wanting it one-time), and see what others think and the relative interest among hosts 'round here.

I say you suck and your post is based on non factually information, which then everyhost who charges a monthly fee for Services rendered is wrong.

Cpanel is a product. Plesk is a product not a service.

You are comparing two different things. If you want to post as you did, go ahead, its false and very untrue but be as you will

I dont agree with it, and really dont think the thread should be closed. Do as you wish,

no more rum for you though

This poll:
http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=24958

Shows on a 18:7 ratio that a one time fee would be more appealing then current statue


Joe

Shows on a 18:7 ratio that a one time fee would be more appealing then current statue[/B]

Of course it would.. You never mentioned an end price for the one time fee. People are going to skim over that and just tick yes to that option with their own pre-concieved price in mind. How about editing it to mention the 'alledged' $7500 one time fee claimed earlier in this thread and see which way the votes go.

For a business owner who deals with people you don't seem to understand what motivates them very well.

Greg Moore

Edit: i see while I was busy typing a long drawn out reply, Greg managed to sum up my post in two sentences, DOH!




The point wasn't the exact comparison, it was the wording... anyhoo

The one thing about the poll that I wish you had added was not just the choice:

One time fee with ownership

...rather what that fee would actually be. It might have had an effect on the results. $1,500 ont-time vs $300 one-time would dramatically change the poll.

There are people who would rather pay smaller amounts every month than the whole pony all at once. Examples for two identical servers, colocated at Bob's Colo Emporium (external licensing)...

Server A w/ one-time cpanel fee:
$1,500 server cost
$1,000 cpanel one-time license (example pricing only)
$100 rack charge/mo includes 40 GB of bandwidth
Total start up: $2,500 Monthly: $100

Server B w/ monthly cpanel license:
$1,500 server cost
$99 cpanel monthly license (example pricing only)
$100 rack charge/mo includes 40 GB of bandwidth
Total start up: $1,600 Monthly: $200


5 servers...

Server A:
Total start up: $12,500 Monthly: $500

Server B:
Total start up: $8,000 Monthly: $1,000


50 servers...

Server A:
Total start up: $125,500 Monthly: $5,000

Server B:
Total start up: $80,000 Monthly: $10,000


Depending on your business model and cash flow, it might be easier for companies to spend more per month, than have larger up-front server fees to start with.

Of course at some point there are discounts, and none of this will really make sense or be right, but the point is that you can somewhat compare a one-time plesk licensing model to a reoccurring cpanel licensing model, and it isn't *only* negative.

I'm simply trying to see both sides. Personally, I'd rather a one-time fee, but that's just me. That doesn't mean I agree with you and think their licensing model is wrong, unethical, that they screw their customers, nor do I feel they blatently rip people off. It is *merely* what I'd personally prefer. Nothing more, nothing less.

You do realize that in both situations if you buy the license you save money

And still no soup for you

Joe

:D

Chicken,

Every now and then the fastest way between two points is a straight line...

Greg Moore

Originally posted by JBIZ718
First of all its a free country to say as you wish.

Second what gives you any right.

I have been in business for 2 years and have some very happy customers. I think i do a good job...

Just as I dont have to buy it, if you dont like what is said dont read it or post too it...

I also have not mentioned anything about controlling anyones business. Many people post many things on this board about not liking business practices, should the mods shut down every post.

Sorry, but grow up a little

Joe
Hey Joe, I hate to correct you, some of your points in the above mentioned statement.

>>First of all its a free country to say as you wish

well no, not really. please recal that we can not yell fire in a movie theater. Nor are we permitted to build a building higher that 2000 feet tall.

>>Second what gives you any right.
the first ammendment will protect your speach, As long as you follow it's terms.

but if that statement about getting your knees capped ( as was done in Italy durring the 70's then I'm against that sort of talk )

Otherwise the rest of your statements with in these threads make decent sense to me.


-Sqposter / Michael

Cpanel is a service provided to hosting companies..

can you call plesk and have something added or modified in 24 hours ? no

Cpanel is shaped according the needs and demands, people with cpanel have also a lot of support with it.

if anything fails on the server "Not CPANEL related" we still help you. or we make the cpanel fix it.

so once again it is a hell of a service,

Can you call plesk and ask to help you with anyting on the server, i would have to say unless it is Directly related to plesk theywill just ignore you.

:)

Actually

William I can get support 24 hours a day....

And they have helped out with several problems other then plesk stuff, so its not a surprising thing.

Plesks support is A+++

Truly amazing...

Joe

I yelled fire in a theatre once.....got banned too, point is, I did it. I practiced my freedom of speech, but got banned due to an in-house rule. That's the catch. Freedom of Speech means you are protected against the Government, not people or businesses. Think twice if you feel you can walk into a bank and start causing a commotion and yelling, and cussing everyone out. The Government cant set laws preventing that, but the business can have their own rules....and enforce them, the government thru law enforcement can enforce those business rules as well.

This is a privately owned forum, free speech has nothing to do with it. For example, I can paractice my freedom of speech and advertise:::

<<EDIT: He's right, heh>>

But you know what, I bet Chicken will come along soon and enforce board rules....and we will be seeing a big bold

Mod Edit: Read the rules, Advertising not allowed!!
edited by Chicken on blah blah blah
since he has the right...this is not government....

Originally posted by Webdude
I yelled fire in a theatre once.....got banned too, point is, I did it. I practiced my freedom of speech, but got banned due to an in-house rule.

If the owner of the theater was in the mood he could have done

1) have you arrested
2) have you in court under civil charges

I only know this because as a kid I worked in a movie house, and some A-hole did yell almost got me killed when everyone was running like a bat out of hell. They filed charge against the kid and was sent to Ju-Ve.

Sqposter / Michael

Now you have me wondering...I did go back to juvi detention (my second home back then). Was it in Texas? I'm sorry you didnt have sense enough to get out of the doorway like I did :D

I'm sure I'd be in a lot of trouble if I tried that now. I'll have to try it and find out.

Originally posted by William
Cpanel is a service provided to hosting companies..

can you call plesk and have something added or modified in 24 hours ? no

Cpanel is shaped according the needs and demands, people with cpanel have also a lot of support with it.

if anything fails on the server "Not CPANEL related" we still help you. or we make the cpanel fix it.

so once again it is a hell of a service,

Can you call plesk and ask to help you with anyting on the server, i would have to say unless it is Directly related to plesk theywill just ignore you.

:)

Wow, what version of Cpanel do YOU use, Bill? *LOL*

Good thing Cpanel fixes those bugs on Linux, or where would we be? Here I thought Cpanel was the problem, but it was just preventing all those other problems the entire time. Imagine how bad we'd be without Cpanel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to look at the stars tonight and pick my "lucky star" and thank it tonight...

I use webpanel :)

Originally posted by William
I use webpanel :)

I'll give you your props, Bill, Webpanel kicks all over Darkorb's version.

Originally posted by Webdude
Now you have me wondering...I did go back to juvi detention (my second home back then). Was it in Texas? I'm sorry you didnt have sense enough to get out of the doorway like I did :D

I'm sure I'd be in a lot of trouble if I tried that now. I'll have to try it and find out.

Ok I don't know why people private message me but I was pointed to this link about "yelling fire"
http://www.fatalblindness.com/FREEDOM990628.htm it's a good read. Also don't send me private messages if it can help others!

If this is correct ( and the arguement seems logical ) then yelling fire in a theater is a Property violation not a constitutional issue.

so in reference to this forum, ( Webdude you will enjoy the "new" language )
a) we derive the freedom to post within this forum only under the terms and conditions of the WHT
b) if you break those rules, you might have broken a Property Violation, therefor look out your window and if you see a Big Rooster run like hell ( hell If i saw a huge rooster I'd run too :) )


-Sqposter / Michael

Webdude

William I just dont get your point.

Maybe you should Talk to plesk and ensim about how they sell there products.

Each Psa key comes with 1 year of Free upgrades. Also I have seen many companies charge for cpanel support, so cpanel and its followers not only make money on the monthly fee but on support as well.

Now if cpanel comes with free support for everything all the time, it may have some extra value, but i dont think thats the case

Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718

Each Psa key comes with 1 year of Free upgrades.

Joe

Plesk website says the following:


Software Update Service

SUS is an optional service, purchased at the same time as a PSA software license key.

The cost of SUS is equal to 25% of the purchase price of the PSA software license key.

SUS provides customers with all software updates for a period of one year from the time of purchase.

Joe,

Cpanel distributors provide the first level of support.
I believe (don't quote me on this) that we all do it for free. I know we certainly do.

If the problem is something which isn't fixable by the distributor, the client is reffered to DarkOrb to fix the problem.

That $100 fee gets you the software, nightly updates, system updates, support from your distributor, and ultimately, support from DarkOrb.

If you're purchasing your Cpanel licenses from someplace other than a distributor, then they have every right to charge you for providing support for Cpanel - You'll find most companies offer support (for free) for 'supported' software. If they're not a distributor, Cpanel most probably doesn't fall in that category.

Vince.

Originally posted by William
Cpanel is a service provided to hosting companies..

can you call plesk and have something added or modified in 24 hours ? no

Cpanel is shaped according the needs and demands, people with cpanel have also a lot of support with it.

if anything fails on the server "Not CPANEL related" we still help you. or we make the cpanel fix it.

so once again it is a hell of a service,


I totally disagree with that part. Cpanel's support is really bad. I've submitted bug reports and after many weeks they're still not resolved. I think you guys should spend less time defending yourselves here and spend more time on your own forums answering questions and addressing bugs.

We are currently with Alabanza and have been for a few years. These guys charge us way way too much for what we get now so we are evaluating control panels that we can move to. My feeling is this:

1. If CPanel is $99/month with free upgrades then this is way worth it to us as it will mean we can ditch Alabanza (soon) get off their overly expensive box and move to a company charging less money for their servers. $99/month gives us the flexibility to choose who we get our server from.

2. There are many services which are paid for monthy - bandwith, the telephone company, insurance etc etc. I don't mind this model as long as it adds value to what we do. macromedia currently charges you a one-time fee for software, but then cleverly brings out must-have updates once a year that we generally go and buy. Nothing different there

3. The Cpanel control panel looks really good. I must admit I haven't used it, but visually it looks better and easier to use than Plesk (although a few people have told me that Plesk is a better back-end product).

The end result of my research is that I'm now confused. Do I go with CPanel on the basis that the support from it seems a little flaky? or, do I go with another product that is more difficult to use for my end customers?

Whichever way, $99/month should be no big deal for a serious company making a few $$

Mark

Originally posted by Skeptical


I totally disagree with that part. Cpanel's support is really bad. I've submitted bug reports and after many weeks they're still not resolved. I think you guys should spend less time defending yourselves here and spend more time on your own forums answering questions and addressing bugs.

Remember i`m Webpanel not Cpanel :)

So i really don`t get many bug reports, just glitches when people modify or change something.

99% of our product has been stable and clients have been able to customize thier business around it.

Originally posted by William
This should be in a thread of it own :)

THey get payroll, they get what they need, wheres the non profit ? A little off topic, and perhaps this should be in a thread of its own, but: nonprofit simply means that there are technically no owners profiting from the corporations activity. There are no dividends being paid, there are no shares to be bought and sold. The difference between income and expenses at the end of the fiscal year, instead of being "profit" that is returned to shareholders is "retained earnings" and remains an asset to the nonprofit corporation.

Originally posted by MarkNorth
We are currently with Alabanza and have been for a few years. These guys charge us way way too much for what we get now so we are evaluating control panels that we can move to. My feeling is this:
The end result of my research is that I'm now confused. Do I go with CPanel on the basis that the support from it seems a little flaky? or, do I go with another product that is more difficult to use for my end customers?

Mark

Good post Mark.... Ive BEEN doing some research on different ones for quite a long time now...Just when you think youve done enough there comes that confusion point...I guess in the end, its pretty simple: whatever suits that particular host will be their choice. I THINK what attracts alot of people to cpanel is the WHM for resellers? Its an easy tool for the resellers to use, and popular.
FOR US? Unless there was a drastic change, I dont see choosing cpanel.....too many similar bugs on servers! One of the many Ive read about is the little quirk where they get the error about license expiry and cant access their panel? :confused:
I think Enism looks pretty neat...but I havent read as much about it as some of the others..also hsphere...same thing?
So far from the info Ive found Plesk comes out on top.
I think this also goes back to each hosts needs? Do your clients want a 'pretty interface'.......or would they choose reliability and performance over looks? In reality....there ARE clients that dont care about looks.....just performance...check around and do some reading, and you will see what I mean :D
btw.....did anyone see the artice in hostingtech mag about taking the cp's on a test drive?? Its was between Cpanel--Enism--Plesk.
Plesk came out the winner.
Good Luck