Hello

I think I am in a No-Win situation at the moment. 3 days ago I got an email stating the Charge back. Unfortunatly I am only given 3 days to respond with 3 choices :

1 - To show proof the product was sent to the registered paypal address

2 - To show proof a refund was settled outside PayPal

3 - To take full liability

I have sent two emails stating I am a WebHost, and the only proof I can give is the hosting account stats. I sent one when I recieved the email, one yesterday, and now I have to make a decision today, even though I have not had a reply from either emails.

I have all the details of the client, and when I talked to them on AIM, they had no idea why it was fraud as "I had used My Grandma's credit card". He is not sure what to do, and Nor am I. He has taken 1 month hosting/reseller, and was onto his second month when I got that email. At the moment, he has had 1 free domain and a free 1 month reseller account.

Can anyone give me some suggestions on how to handle this matter.

Thanks in advance,

Regards.

James Parmee Morris

Dear James Morris,

We have just been informed that you have received funds from an account
with reports of fraudulent credit card use.

Details of the transaction and this case are as follows:

Buyer's Name: ****(Call them Person X)****
Buyer's Email: ***********
Transaction Date: 3 Feb. 2004
Transaction Amount: -18.98 GBP
Case #: PP-033-****

PayPal indemnifies sellers from chargeback liability resulting from a
buyer's fraudulent use of a stolen credit card and/or false claims of
non-delivery of goods for payments received through PayPal of up to
$5,000.00 USD per year when the following conditions are met:

1. The seller has a US Verified Business or US Verified Premier account, or
a Canadian Verified Business or Canadian Verified Premier account. Note:
While non-US sellers outside Canada may be Verified, they do not qualify
for and are not protected by the Seller Protection Policy and therefore may
be responsible for any reversals made due to fraudulent funds.

2. The seller dispatches goods to the buyer's Confirmed Address.

3. The seller can provide reasonable proof-of-postage which can be tracked
online. This documentation must show that you dispatched goods to the
Confirmed Address. (Most US carrier companies, including the US Postal
Service, offer this service.) For transactions $250.00 USD or more in
value, the seller also needs to provide an online proof-of-receipt in the
form of a signature from the recipient. Because comparable proof-of-postage
is not currently available for electronically-delivered items, we are
currently unable to offer Seller Protection for digital goods and other
electronically-delivered items.

4. The seller accepted a single payment from only one PayPal account for
the purchase. (Multiple payments from different accounts for a single item
are an indicator of fraud. Sellers should not accept such payments.)

5. The seller dispatches to a domestic (US) buyer at a US address.

6. The seller cooperates in resolving disputes by responding in the
following time periods: When a complaint occurs, the seller must provide
complete information within seven days of a request from PayPal. However,
if PayPal is required by the credit card association to respond immediately
to resolve a reversal, sellers must provide the information within three
days. PayPal will indicate the response time required in the email message
sent to the seller.

7. The seller dispatches goods within seven days of receiving payment.

A hold has been placed on the transaction in question while we investigate
this case. To assist us in resolving this case, please click on the link
below and provide us with the requested information:

****

Please provide your correspondence regarding this case within 72 hours via
the link provided above. Unfortunately, we may have limited recourse to
assist you further if your reply is received past this timeframe.

Thank you for your cooperation and we look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,



PayPal Chargeback Division

it's most likely fraud.

i've heard the "grandmother's card" story countless times.
99.999999% of the times they're lying.

cut your losses. absorb the chargeback and move on.

Are you sure your customer used an genuine credit card???

Well, I guess its time to try their contact details. ;)

Regards,

James

You should just provide proof that clearly shows this was not a TANGIBLE sale, instead a NON-TANGIBLE sale. Send a copy of the customers invoice and also show how long they have been with you.

Once they see it is NON-TANGIBLE, you'll be off the hook.

However, chargebacks override even PayPal, but it's worth clearing your record from PayPal so that your account isn't locked.

My friend had pretty much the same problem.

When you created the pay buttons/links did you make them as "Buy Now Buttons" or did you create them under "Subscriptions and Recurring Payments"?


My buddie made the mistake to create his payment links trough buy now buttons and paypal refused to help.
They pretty much said you made a mistake on putting your service as a "tangible" nothing we can do so deal with it now.

We were using the WHM Auto Pilot script, so it was a "Subscriptions and Recurring Payments".

I have decided as I did not want my paypal locked, and becasue I had to choose now, to select Take full liability with a message saying its non-tangible and I have invoices and logs to proof it was used and find it highly unfair and suspicious the charge back was exactly 1 month after the hosting had been used.

I got this reply back for the first email I sent

Dear **,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

We are currently reviewing this chargeback and your account. Please
allow us 30 days from the date of the chargeback to complete our
investigation and determine an outcome. We will contact you if any
further information is needed.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us
again.

Sincerely,
*
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company.

How do you deter from getting these frauds? Because from what I can see, there was nothing I could of done to prevent this or even think it was a fraud.

Thanks again.

James P-M

The best way is to verify all there personal information before signups, but this can be a problem logistically if you're a small webhost.

I just wouldn't use PayPal if I were you. It's fraught with such scams and there really is not a recourse you have. It's more or less a risk you take. If you're fine with that risk, then absorb the chargeback and move on. Otherwise, just drop paypal.

Originally posted by liquidfire
. . . It's more or less a risk you take. If you're fine with that risk, then absorb the chargeback and move on. Otherwise, just drop paypal. That's the way you have to view it. Understand and accept the risk; or don't use it.

That's what I've always said :)

On the other hand, it really wouldn't hurt PayPal to be a bit nicer to it's sellers.

Originally posted by liquidfire
That's what I've always said :)

On the other hand, it really wouldn't hurt PayPal to be a bit nicer to it's sellers.

yeah, PayPal have done some pretty nasty things to some people :)

Well you said that "person x" said on AIM that they used their grandma's credit card, well "person x" most likely used it without their grandma's permission and when it showed up on the monthly state, the grandma didn't know anything about it and put a chargeback on it.

Simply ask this person to resolve this issue. If he can't, he's most likely a scammer. You will not win if you cannot provide proof that it was a registered paypal address. PayPal is still at the mercy of the issuing banks.