1. If you setup a dedicated server with an ISP, you pay him on a per GB usage of OUTGOING traffic.

2. ISP itself pays for dedicated streams, for example T1 (full duplex) of INCOMING traffic, OUTGOING traffic is FREE for ISP.

Bottomline: it might be very profitable for an ISP to charge for outgoing traffic, because he pays for incoming traffic only. Usually outgoing/incoming traffic proportion is 5/1 or even 8/1.

We, in Russia, pay only for incoming international traffic to our ISP. Local Russian traffic is free (due to agreements between local ISPs for traffic exchange, outgoing traffic is also free).

Question (1): is there an ISP in USA, who charges for incoming traffic only (something that really costs something for him)?

Question (2): traffic exchange is a commonplace at the Net. Is there an ISP which do not charge for traffic that comes/goes from/to its peers?

Originally posted by Anatole
2. ISP itself pays for dedicated streams, for example T1 (full duplex) of INCOMING traffic, OUTGOING traffic is FREE for ISP.

I'd like to know what ISP does that. :) We pay for outgoing traffic only, incoming is free (whoopie).

I think you're quite confused with how bandwidth is actually provisioned and sold in the US. You seem to be implying that an ISP would only need to purchase as much incoming bandwidth as they need and they can use an infinite amount of outgoing bandwidth free of charge. This is not the case at all.

Most providers that purchase their own circuits gauge the amount of connectivity they will need based on their peak usage. For hosting providers, this peak usage will be outgoing bandwidth. Let's say a hosting provider does 40 Mbps out and 8 Mbps in. That provider would likely plan on a T3 circuit, 45 Mbps, because that is the circuit capable of providing them with the 40 Mbps peak that they would need (yes, in all likelihood they might get a fractional OC3 to plan for future expansion, but that's another story). Most circuits will allow the provider to transfer as much incoming as they do outgoing, but in the case of the hosting provider, most of the bandwidth cost is going into supporting the outgoing bandwidth. If the provider only needed to pay for incoming, they'd only need to pay for 8 Mbps, but in the real world, they have to pay for the 40 that they peak at.

I'm not sure where you read that outgoing bandwidth is free or who told you this, but I'm afraid they're sorely misinformed.

Lets devide:
a) physical capabilities of a line and equipment: T1, T3...
b) actual data flow: Mbps

You can establish a T3 connection, pay for 10% average load of it.

Now, please explain: what kind of load? Incoming, outgoing or both?

I think ISP's should just provide free colocation and transit to everyone, i mean really theres really no need for ISP's to make money is there?

Start doing it right now, Cbaker17 ;)

I am just looking for an ISP that charges for the same kind of traffic, which he is charged and in case he has free peering with some other ISPs, provides free traffic to/from these ISP to his customers.

Additional monthly fee for electricity, security, rack space is OK, of course. I do not think communism will be establed in USA in the nearest 5 years (but who knows?!) :)

But, just in a case, you, Cbaker17 decided to provide free colo, please, do not forget to inform us, WHT users :)

Alright you asked for it you get it. FREE COLO AND TRANSIT FOR ALL!*

*Offer valid only to the individuals who bring Bin Laden to Digital Technology Inc. 209 E. Williams Ste. 920 Wichita, Ks 67202 between the hours of 9am - 5pm Dead or Alive before Oct. 31st. Offer not valid to family, friends, or associates of Bin Laden. Purchase not necessary to participate. Digital Technology Inc. is a equal opportunity employer.

Is this like an unlimited offer or will you stick to your word?

hehe


-- Brad

Hi,

This might be too obvious to you guys..
Maybe in russia ISPs are charged for INCOMING traffic because their main business (and traffic) is to be the Internet access provider so people can have access to the internet. Most people undeer this situation would DOWNLOAD more than they upload, hence they only charge for INCOMING (read: DOWNLOAD) only.

If people start building web hosting that becomes heavy traffic for international users, then they will start seeing at high OUTGOING traffic and wil probably change their policy on the pricing.

Am I too far off?

What I don't know is.... are ISP (or anyone hooking up to Layer3, MCI, UUNET, etc) getting charged by incoming / outgoing or both? Anyone knows about this?

Someone tell me if I'm wrong but I think this is right. ISPs buy connections to the backbones, that are a certain size ( we're forgetting local loop for a minute here ). If they get a T1 tehy pay $1,000 ( example )a month for 1.5Mbps that is combined. IE if they are sending out 512Kbps they can only recieve 512Kbps.

There are two services involved as far as I know... please correct me if I am wrong..

first is the data connection itself, T3, OC3 etc... it's what connects your data from one point to another.. this is charged just by the type of the link...

then there's the internet data point / back bone.. this is probably charged by how much traffic is generated on your link....

am I close?

Lets say you order a T1?

*Prices are just made up

You pay $1,000 to you're ISP/backbone
You pay $500 to you're phone company for the "local loop". The local loop is the actual physical line that connects to you're isp.

and here is how it really works

1.) you call up the telco you want bandwidth from
2.) they quote you an outragous price
3.) you tell them how much bandwidth you use who your providers are and then tell them their pricing is out to lunch and to take a long walk off a short pier
4.) 2 weeks later you get gifts from the provider (not much just some crap software or paperweights)
5.) they call back saying they really want your business and give you a more reasonable out to lunch number
6.) repeat 5 for about a year
7.) they now are starting to get the basic understanding of what webhosting is you force your SLA on them
8.) another 6 months goes by while they figure out they cant provision the sla you provided
9.) they cave in because over the last year you served more bandwidth than they provide and they want that business
10.) you provision the line then they tell you they want 30k for an install fee youtell them to drop dead and hang up
11.) they call back and tell you the install fee is waived
12.) you get their bandwidth into your location
13.) they try to route some of your traffic and fail horribly
14.) you show the engineers how to route traffic
15.) you have a new telco providing service
16.) you argue over the billings every month from that point on

Steve

Very good information! This is SOOO true.

At Steve: :D