I am using ASP for more than three years now. I am still unable to find out what the problem with the ASP is. In the beginning of my journey into ASP, the things which went wrong came into my account. I always thought that ASP is developed by much more experienced developers and anything which goes wrong in my script is due to my script only. But now, after three years, I have come to a conclusion that nightmare was always done by ASP.

For a simple example, I have developed a COM component that contains a function CalculateDiskUsage which returns the directory size of the supplied directory. It works OK with PHP. Same environment, same permissions, Works ok in ASP in one case, doesn't work ok in another.

How can I rely on this mess of things.

I can send anyone the dll (along with the source code, if required) and my script pages of both ASP and PHP to prove that nothing is wrong.

I recommend Micro$oft ASP developers (those who developed ASP engine, and not those helpless guys like me, using it) that they should either recommend users to abandon use of ASP or write the engine from scratch.

I haven't used ASP.Net but I hope It would be inheriting all these
problems from ASP.

ASP.Net and ASP are not the same animal.

ASP.Net scripting can be done with many different complete programming languages, and I don't' mean a subset of the languages like vbScript or javascript.

The most often used languages for ASP.Net are currently C# and VB.Net. These are full-fledged object-oriented programming languages. VB.Net is not the same as VB6 or vbScript. Whatever problems you had with ASP and it's scripting languages will not be happening in ASP.Net.

You can learn and use PHP or any other web language, but as a web developer, you will eventually be using ASP.Net.

You can learn and use PHP or any other web language, but as a web developer, you will eventually be using ASP.Net.That's interesting statement, since I disagree. In my browsing of top tier websites and mid range websites, I tend to find PHP and JSP/JavaServlets much more often. Both of which are object orientated, with rich libraries. Nothing against ASP, or ASP.net, but I think looking at these other languages would also be a good idea.

Personally, I think the really neato part about JSP/JavaServlets is how much you can abstract out the design from the actual servlet. At my last place of work, we wrote servlets to handle all the data processing, documented interfaces to pass data from a servlet to a JSP, and then let our web deal exclusively with the front end. In the end, it made it so we could update how the processing worked completely independant of the design, and vice-versa. Granted, that kind of system can be designed in any language, but I have yet to see a system as powerful as that natively supported in other web programming languages.

Originally posted by adorno
You can learn and use PHP or any other web language, but as a web developer, you will eventually be using ASP.Net.

Why?

What you just said is akin to :

Originally posted by adorno
You can learn and use PHP or any other web language, but as a web developer, you will eventually be programming for Windows only.

Care to explain what you meant without turning the thread into ASP.NET vs PHP?

You can learn and use PHP or any other web language, but as a web developer, you will eventually be using ASP.Net.

radiculous, it is. :blush:

Right now .NET is windows only, but if you look around a bit, you will soon find out that .NET is already being developed for Linux.

PHP is wide-spread because of the open-source (free) movement. It is easy to find a FREE script that does what you need, if you use PHP, especially if you need something that can run off MySQL too (free again!).

Just browse around this site, and you can see how many topic are about "Where do I get a FREE script that does this and that".

If it where not for the free software, quiet a few small business' would have to close down. They do not have the incoming to pay for the software they host on and use.

That is one of the reasons why so many sites use PHP.

I agree that in the next few years, .NET will be used in a big part of the web-applications developed.

In the last year I've developed almost as many .NET web-applications as I've developed ASP solutions in 4 years! People who have so far been using ASP, would do themselves a favor if they move to .NET instead!

That's just MHO!

regards,
J.

PHP 5 beta is out there. As far as I know it contains all of those features that are provided by ASP.NET. You see there is a contest. PHP is supported on almost all major development platforms and if it provides parallel answers to the ASP.NET, then my recommendation is to use PHP as it is free and not owned by a company who can anytime choose to abandon ASP .NET development and start a new web technology called betagamma.

Ok. Why should you choose to develop using ASP.NET?

You have to learn one language (or more if you want to), and then you can develop ASP.NET applications, and you can develop windows application, services (yes, at the moment it's windows only, but for how long?).

All using the same language. You just have to decide if you want to learn C#, J#, VB.NET, Delphi.NET (or one of the many others!).

..or you could learn PHP.

Can the PHP syntax be used for more than developing web-apps?

regards,
J.

Originally posted by adorno
ASP.Net and ASP are not the same animal.

ASP.Net scripting can be done with many different complete programming languages, and I don't' mean a subset of the languages like vbScript or javascript.

The most often used languages for ASP.Net are currently C# and VB.Net. These are full-fledged object-oriented programming languages. VB.Net is not the same as VB6 or vbScript. Whatever problems you had with ASP and it's scripting languages will not be happening in ASP.Net.

You can learn and use PHP or any other web language, but as a web developer, you will eventually be using ASP.Net.

Agreed. Working on trying to get in the door with a health care company as we speak right now to develop with ASP.Net/VB.Net :)

Good luck !!!

another advantage to asp.net is the IDE.

rpepka, Umbongo, ferox:

Re-read my last sentence in my previous post:

"You can learn and use PHP or any other web language, but as a web developer, you will eventually be using ASP.Net."

There is nothing there that says 'as a replacement for other languages'. It was meant to say that "eventually you will be using ASP.Net as well as other languages".

By all means, continue using different languages, but also be aware that ASP.Net will be around for a long time (even if it evolves), and anybody who is going to develop for the web should learn it in order to open up more employment opportunities.

Not all PHP scripts are platform compatible - some need windows while other need Linux, it depends on how you code them. Of course if you know your script will be on multiple platforms then you should script is accordingly :)

.NET is fine for big business and web services, IMO it will never touch small websites, business or anything that doesn't have a budget of 5k or more unless you hire some high school kids to code .NET for you.

Every language has it's benefits and fallbacks you just have to understand what they are and select an appropriate language for the job at hand. ;)

ASP is dead, moaning and complaining about it now will fall on deaf ears (aside from security fixes), there was never any future in restrictive VBScript and JScript, that was quickly realised when the bulk of code people moved into COM objects.


another advantage to asp.net is the IDE.


I wouldn't consider that an advantage, Visual Studio is to ASP.Net like Dreamweaver is to HTML.


I disagree that one language/technology will rule all, there will always be a variety, the shares might change, personally I see JSP and ASP.Net gaining a lot of market share this year, full OO is the way forward! PHP and Perl have OO tacted on, whilst Jave and .Net is all object-orientated.



Whatever problems you had with ASP and it's scripting languages will not be happening in ASP.Net.


True, but you may experience different problems, I can't for the life on me understand why Microsoft kept the ASP part, its a massive stigma and as seen above causes a lot of confusion. Microsoft should start an advertising campaign "ASP != ASP.Net, please belive us!" :)

Originally posted by MattF
ASP is dead....

I can't for the life on me understand why Microsoft kept the ASP part, its a massive stigma and as seen above causes a lot of confusion. Microsoft should start an advertising campaign "ASP != ASP.Net, please belive us!" :)

Classic ASP with the vb scripting and javascript may not be the future, but the term "ASP" has nothing to do with old technology; it is an abbreviation for "Acitve Server Pages" which was used to denote actively and dynamically changing web pages. Though the programming languages and the environment for creating the pages are different, 'ASP' still has a clear meaning. Furthermore, it is a term which millions of developers still understand and there are still similarities between the old and new ASP.

Originally posted by json
Good luck !!!

I didn't get it... They weren't willing to spend the extra $$ to train me, when they admitted that I had what it took to do the job :(

A real problem in ASP and PHP is the tendency toward developing one big "page" with the presentation logic, database and business logic all in one big file. This is why I like J2EE (Java) for how it embraces the Model-View-Controller (MVC) pattern.

That said, you can develop good, clean code in almost any platform. What little PHP code I've written has followed a MVC-like separation of concerns. The .NET platform seems to take this philosophy and has borrowed wholesale from Java.

You can still write ASP-like spaghetti in .NET, of course and sadly, much of the JSP examples I see are exactly the same thing too.

Originally posted by cleaver

You can still write ASP-like spaghetti in .NET, of course and sadly, much of the JSP examples I see are exactly the same thing too.

Bad programming habits are language independent.

You can give a good programmer the worst programming language ever conceived, and he'll create an easy to understand masterpiece.

Give a bad programmer the best language and programming environment ever conceived, and he'll still turn out junk.

You can give a good programmer the worst programming language ever conceived, and he'll create an easy to understand masterpiece.

Yes. As Bjarne Stroustrup have said that you can write an object oriented program in C and a structured program in Fortran.
But to quote him again, A paradigm is said to be supported in a programming language if it provides ease of use for that paradigm.