Article extract >>

Russian President Vladimir Putin has dramatically fired his entire government - including the prime minister, it is reported.

He announced the unexpected move during a live TV broadcast.


Deputy Prime Minister Viktor Khristenko has been appointed acting prime minister, it is reported.

Russians go to the polls next month.

Mr Putin said he was making the decision because of his "wish to set out my position on what the country's course will be after March 14, 2004".

"This decision is not linked to the government's achievements, which on the whole I consider satisfactory," he said.

End extract <<

For more info :: http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1124652,00.html

This is either a very bold an clever decision by Putin and good for Russia or a very bold and clever decision for Putin and not so good for Russia. Interesting timing this close to the Presidential elections.

Opinions?? Comments??

Critic,

Certainly a bold move but not necessarily a clever one.
Kasyanov is responsible for what little financial stablility there may be in Russia. Unless Putin has some way in mind to start repaying their massive debt he will need to find a new negotiator.

Given that Putin appears to be an election rigging crook who tries to imprision anyone who funds opposition to him, I think it will be "not so good for Russia".

Just because Putin was in the KGB doesn't mean he isn't trustworthy.

Originally posted by ptn1
Just because Putin was in the KGB doesn't mean he isn't trustworthy.

No the fact he tries to remove opposition by any means possible means he is not trustworthy.

That's quite an interesting move on his part. Knowing very little about the current events in Russia, I'm not sure what this is in response to or if he just decided to do so on a whimb.

Goodbye Capitalism! Hello Communism!

Originally posted by Critic
Article extract >>

Russian President Vladimir Putin has dramatically fired his entire government - including the prime minister, it is reported.

Critic,

Wish our Queen would do that :rolleyes:

Now, isn't WHT a great community? You even find out what is going on in your homeland here! :)

putin? crooked? no way. nobody is crooked in russia...just desperate, devious, very friendly, great hosts and wonderfully murderous if you cross them... aka normal folks.


I was interviewed by fsb/kgb for 7 hours. one of the most memorable times I ever had. wonderful chaps...good coffee and the girls were almost cute.


phpdev...r u russian? pm if so eh?

OK, so you all have great theories, but here is the real one for you. Putin did not fire Kasyanov because he didn't do his job or he stole money, just like everyone else in that country. He fired him as he was Boris Berezovsky' last insider in Putin's government. Berezovski is one of the richest people in Russia, made his bloddy money on variety of businesses and media.

As you all know (well, I assume you read world news sections from time to time), Putin has been waging war against those oligarchs who a couple years back decided to bring Putin's power down. In fact, the so-called secret meeting of the richest guys in Russia was organized by Khadarkovski, supposebly #1 richest person in Russia, CEO of UKOS Oil Company. He was the one who "pushed" the idea forward. Other people, including Potanin (oligarch) and aforementioned Berezovski decided it was more in their favor to rat on Khadarkovski Evil plan, so they bought themselves some time.

Putin, though, is not stupid. He knows for a fact a lot of oligarchs want him out of the gov, so that's why he is getting on everyone's nerves and trying to clear the government of their insiders, as well as why he sends IRS services and other institutions into those guys businesses to find something he can use against them.

Read more at:
http://gazeta.ru/english/
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/

Best,

this whole election is such a farce show... I wouldn't even care to guess why putin fired his government.

I care. Russia COULD BE one of our greatest allies. It is rich in both history and a highly educated population. There is a thread here about Indians in outsourcing roles and that is a heated thread to be sure. But I have worked next to Russian Programmers and with Indian Programmers. Indians can be (not all, but many) very racist. I was a second class citizen when I worked with them...very backwards. They were also deceptive. More than half of the programmers I worked with came to me for answers because they were students, learning on the job and charging a very high rate. There were some very smart guys there (not many girls), but most of them I found to be offensive and suspicious and not very friendly.


I have found the opposite with the Russian I have worked with. They are humorous, have heart, have not been racist although I must say they are suspicious of almost everyone they meet...fine. But they were also educated, they knew the languages (OraPerl at the time), THEY had answers I could ask of them and THEY enjoy the learning/teaching cycle and THEY shared ideas openly on the job. I did not find that to be true with the folks from India. They were very secretive (hiding all those students was tough).


So, since the world is getting smaller and outsourcing and global commerce is coming of age, I care what happens in Russia. The sooner we embrace all cultures of the world (India too), the sooner we can stabalize this planet and get these folks educated across the board and start reducing tensions, racisim, nationistic anomosity and mistrust and god forbid Russia moves back towards the dark ages of communism.


It is tough there right now. I have friends who watch their loved ones freeze this winter because of higher rents and utility bills. They are adjusting to a capitalistic society that at present is very corrupt where profits of the few at the top are not being translated to those at the bottom. I cannot pretend to be so wise as to say Putin is a good guy who wants capitalism or is just another crooked President. I do not know and even most Russian have to wonder. Even here in the U.S. or own President, perhaps the most powerful person on the planet, got to office through what many believe were crooked methods during the election. I believe it.


So do not doubt that Russian elections are any more or less crooked than elections in the U.S. But do believe that over time their political and economic system will stabalize if a little support (contracts, cultural exchange, educational grants etc.) is given from countries who are doing better. And DO believe that the global economy as a whole will be in much better shape for everyone if we can learn to work together and stop spending hundreds of billions of dollars on bombs and military.


The resources of man, both measured in capital and fossil fuels, in homes that exist RIGHT NOW, TODAY, and food that exists RIGHT NOW, is a finite number. If we waste those resources fighting each other instead of helping each other we are doomed as a species or at best, crippled.


When we learn to teach our neighbors and they reach out and help us in return, then we will have established a global village. Until then, we are groping for an answer that is right in front of our face. Did Bush actually do a damn thing in Iraq with all that money? Now he is back peddling to get out leaving the place a wreck and even the elusive goal of OIL may not be secure...a waste of time unless the Iraqis can pull a country out of that chaos...difficult without external support.


And Russia's experiment with capitalism... another difficult recovery unless the Western World works as a team and gives them a hand. If we don't, we will be buying bombs and missles to defend or attack or whatever, and they will be doing the same. I still remember the cold war. It sucked. When an air-raid siren blasts, you crawl under your school desk and kiss your arse goodbye...that was the drill and I am damn thankful that isn't the way it is done now (now you kiss the girls arse in front of you heh heh).


Anyway, you should care and if Putin was actually purging corporate influence from government I hope the son of a bitch gets elected again. Let him rock and roll and wrestle that place into a reasonable player on the political landscape and I hope within 3-10 years they can actually enjoy the fruits of that sharp population they have. Russians aren't stupid, just oppressed big time and given a chance, can do wonderful work. Give them a chance. Hug a Ruskie today!!!! hahahahaha....

kckclass, as half-Russian, I thank you for such a beautiful and inspiring post.

Best,

I appreciate the thanks, but really....it's not poetry or fluff; it's the way people WILL think in 50-100 years so we might was well get to it now, eh?

Well.. 50-100 years. If the country is still there, then maybe it'll be stronger. Population of Russia has been decreasing consistently in the last 5-7 years.

I won't go now though, I just came from there 5 years ago.

Best,

I was in Samara and Saratov in 2001 and it was the best (cold as hell but the best).... let's see...


I was seeing a physicist (cutie) and the night we arrived in Saratov from Samara at 3am her brother rang and said he was coming over....chaparone express I guess. Fine. He walked in and I had been making tea and gave him a suprise big hug and said 'Ivan'... (standard international greeting).... except it turned out to be her ex-husband who was livid that she was dating a yank... Ivan showed up a few minutes later. heh heh...oooops.... and I gave him the same hug but it was a tense situation.


Ivan wanted the ex to leave and I said 'No, everyone relax and let's have some 4am tea and a nice chat.....' and I explained that I have no hatred for the ex, he should go get himself a new wife and no worries about the daughter.... once the girl and I marry (we weren't but I thought it would be good to bring it up), I'd get citizenship for everyone so the ex-daddy, mommy, cute daughter, Ivan the brother and of course yankie ahole could all live by the ocean in Santa Barbara... Ivan laughed, the girl laughed, the ex almost died.


Later I was interogated by 3 Judges, 5 FSB/KGB gents for 7 hours, (very good coffee they pour and good cake too) and met with some teachers at an orphanage, got mugged by two guys at 3am on the 5th floor of a dark apartment (they got their shorts wet when I started shouting every english (real accent) version of 'I'm gonna kill you mofo' Clint Eastwood line in the book as I whipped out a tear gas gun that looked like something quite a bit more lethal...(how to turn a pale russian even whiter in less than 5 seconds) the mugging was over quickly, the girl explained we WEREN'T hoodlums stealing aluminum from the elevators and I even got to hug the two muggers as we laughed it off.

and of course I met a crooked cabbie who took me home to marry the elder daughter, but the younger one was cuter and had her eyes on me... but I am a one guy girl so I stuck with the physicist... even when her friend the cute student made a few suggestions...I suggested we go find the physicist...

and I noticed that if a yank goes into a grocery store in Saratov with a fistful of U.S. twenties an empty place will be filled with moms, daughters, dads and sons (usually outside) in about 10 minutes.

and when I went into one store and bought some feminine products for the physicist apparently that was a no-no and she said she would never show her face in the neighborhood again. oooops...

and her father refused to meet me, refused to play chess, refused to eat with me, so I went to the local hockey rink (small in between apartments) and got all the 6-10 year old kids to bang on his door for 10 days straight begging him for a game of shark-matey? (chess) and told them if he accepted, I'd pay them 10 dollars U.S. and if he won, they'd get another 20.... man they never let up on the poor old bastard but he never gave in.

and I got to play piano in a dozen places, including an old banger sitting in a tour agency on the Volga...I mean, RIGHT on the water, which besides the physicist, was the most tastey part of it all...


and I got to spar with a Judicial Police (Court Justice-Federal) during the KGB interview... nicest guy in the world but who woulda thought a yank could trade blows with a Russian cop carrying a machine gun and we'd laugh and eat together later...


and got to cook and serve dinner for Ivan and his family... gave them a bag full of radio shack radios and goodies, nice biker jacket and when I got on the train to leave I think I was more in love with Ivan than his sister... although I loved them both I really liked Ivan and wished him and his wife the best...even after he told me his father (poor guy) had asked that I be 'completely investigated' so I gave him all my credit cards, AAA card, social security card etc., explained about the kids org I work for back here and not many people would hand over all their ID to a guy who worked for an agency that is, uh, known to be a bit of a government wing in Russia... go ahead... impersonate me and watch your TRW crash and burn.


and I got to chew out a Russian cop at the airport for refusing to let me and the girl kiss as I was boarding the plane (I did it anyway) and was thereupon escorted to the bus by a female officer... who told me she was glad I did it because the cop who tried to stop me was an a..s..s..

....hmmm, so many memories, such great people...going back a.s.a.p.

Originally posted by kckclass
Anyway, you should care and if Putin was actually purging corporate influence from government I hope the son of a bitch gets elected again.

You really need to learn a little about Mr Putin, firstly the media bias in Russia, which makes any accusations of media bias in he west look smalltime :

The majority of media in Russia is state controlled, media that works like a publicity campaign for Mr Putin, where barely a newscast goes by without Mr Putins image and his homily of the day.

Not only do these channels constantly promote Mr Putin, they also attempt to shield him from any criticism or unpleasant associations, missle failures at events he attended go all but unreported.

some views on Mr Putin, the "media" and the elections :

"This not a campaign in the real sense as the election is hardly competitive," said Boris Makarenko of the Institute of Political Technologies think-tank.

A spokesman for the OSCE a pan-European inter-governmental body said at the time of the duma elections that privileged media access for the pro-Putin United Russia party -- which scored a huge victory -- had created "an unfair environment" for rival parties.

And in January, during a visit to Moscow, Secretary of State Colin Powell voiced reservations over Russia's commitment to democracy and U.S. officials pinpointed media bias in the Duma election as an area of particular concern.

As for the arrests of people, it's funny how he only arrests executives who pledge money to opposition parties isn't it. It's also pretty wierd that former ministers trying to negotitate a peace for Chechnya who flee to London, are supposedly mass murders and terrorists according to Mr Putin, yet courts in London find nothing of the sort and simply find a man brave (or stupid) enough to speak out against Putin.

Since Putin has come to power Russias political system has gone backwards, just because someone calls a system democratic, doesn't mean it is.

i believe you. he's a criminal like 99% of the politicians in the world who perhaps started off wanting to help a nation but soon found that absolute power corrupts absolutely. look at the Bush history at http://on-1tv.com/ylbush.html and there's a criminal at every turn in politics. whooopie. and Bush's policies have resulted in tens of thousands of deaths, a lot of kids in that toll and political rivals should fear him. I think (not sure) he isn't as violently oppressive as Putin but he's more powerful and has done some pretty wild things that cost a lot of lives needlessly... so who do you trust baby?

As for Putin and Presidency? There are term limits and if he goes around the block one more time in a country as unstable as Russia that might be a good thing. If he is pro-communist and fails that will demonstrate to many in Russia that path is a dead end...good. If he succeeds at restoring some standard of living then good. If he can purge some of the mafia influence there, good and if he's just a criminal like the rest who can't effect any change then history will show that too.


as I read somewhere recently (regarding technological evolution)
'evolutionary steps are not made as new scientists are born, but one funeral at a time as the old dogma's and establishments die off.'

I think it applies to political evolution too:

All i can say about these comments is LOL. You guys have absolutely no clue of what's going on in Russia.

You have no idea how business in russia is done. It is done following way: dude steals, becomes rich, goes to prison. And if someone tries to make business normal way as europeans do then he'll get robbed by friendly neighbours. There isn't a single rich businessman who didn't steal something, but Putin tries to end this hell and teach russians how to do business normal way. Of course there is huge opposition created by those who stole a lot and afraid to go to prison.

About elections: there is no media promoting putin - media just tells what president is doing. Same as in all other countries. And there is no opposition on these elections at all because there is not a single candidate who can do anything better than Putin does so of course noone cares about those other candidates.

About Kasianov: he did good, but not good enough. His idea of work is "make sure everything is stable and runs", but from Putin's announcement it is clear that he wants economy to grow much faster than it is and Kasianov is not capable of doing it.

Outside of russia all you can hear is what those exiles are saying because they scream louder than anyone else (and they are well payed to do that), but that's usually completely opposite to what's really going on.

Originally posted by affhosting
Goodbye Capitalism! Hello Communism!
I think you are confusing Russia with USA. USA is the country that goes towards communism thanks to president with zero iq and it goes that way very fast.

Originally posted by CyberAlien

About elections: there is no media promoting putin - media just tells what president is doing. Same as in all other countries.


So Colin Powell, OSCE, many russians, many documentries, every major broadcaster in the world, the opposition in Russia and so on are all lieing about the media coverage of elections?

Originally posted by CyberAlien

And there is no opposition on these elections at all because there is not a single candidate who can do anything better than Putin does so of course noone cares about those other candidates.


Wow, that should be in the dictionary for the definition of brainwashed.

Originally posted by CyberAlien

You have no idea how business in russia is done. It is done following way: dude steals, becomes rich, goes to prison. And if someone tries to make business normal way as europeans do then he'll get robbed by friendly neighbours. There isn't a single rich businessman who didn't steal something, but Putin tries to end this hell and teach russians how to do business normal way. Of course there is huge opposition created by those who stole a lot and afraid to go to prison.


It is precisely because the world does know how buiness is conducted in Russia that corruption, bribes are commonplace, that is apears rather strange that Putin only arrests executives at companies that fund opposition and not the equally corrupt "businessmen" that fund him or keep their mouths shut.

Originally posted by CyberAlien
You have no idea how business in russia is done. It is done following way: dude steals, becomes rich, goes to prison. And if someone tries to make business normal way as europeans do then he'll get robbed by friendly neighbours. There isn't a single rich businessman who didn't steal something, but Putin tries to end this hell and teach russians how to do business normal way. Of course there is huge opposition created by those who stole a lot and afraid to go to prison.
Partly true and I do agree with some of his methods to prosecute the richest folks who just steal everything versus an average/medium-sized business who struggle through the system to earn a living.

Actually, if any of you came to Russia and wanted to do business there in the most honest way and pay your taxes, then you would go bankrupt very fast. Very few of you know, but if you want to stay honest and, let's say, would prefer to pay full business taxes, then according to Russian taxation you would have to pay 107% (that's including federal, municipal and smaller local taxes). So until THIS changes, there will be no open and honest business, no matter how Russian people try (and a big portion of them do try very hard to succeed).

kckclass, sounds like your visit was a long long time ago! You would be amazingly stunned if you decide to visit a place like Moscow today. This is the biggest city for business in the world today. Even New York does not stand close. ;)

Best,

I listen to a Russian Affairs analyst once a week and he says that things took a turn for the worst after the elections for the Duma was it a few months back?

The United Russia Party has a total majority which is Putins lot and after them there is the Communist Party and not much else. The analyst who works for the BBC has been working in or analysing Russia for more than a decade.

He said that the chances of Putin changing the constitution to allow him to have a 3rd term are now quite high once he is elected which looks a cert. He also said that in the previously mentioned elections the United Party had dominance on the TV media for promoting its cause and manifesto and other parties hardly appeared if at all.

Now we could've ended up with a lot worse than Putin if you thnk about it but Russia is not the rising star it was a couple of years back.

His moves against business justified or not were very poorly timed and should've been dealth with much earlier on in hispresidency. If memory serves the Russian stock market fell by at least 20% on the day the Chairman of UKOS went down. Shame when you consider the gains that has been made in business before that.

Looks like we've got some other private agenda's in here regarding Bush so i won't go into that.

Artashes, Moscow bigger than New York and Tokyo and London in the world of Business and finance, i'm not too sure about that; if you want a fouth membe of that group of cities, look east toward Beijing and then you might be onto something.

Did i hear someone say that America is heading toward communism and Russia toward Capitalism, well on that first point i have this to say >>

Nurse: DOCTOR, this patient has just been brought in, this is what he's been saying.

*hands over chart*

Doctor: Dear god! how does this happen to people, get me a sedative, there still might be some time. ;)

Critic,

Originally posted by kckclass
I appreciate the thanks, but really....it's not poetry or fluff; it's the way people WILL think in 50-100 years so we might was well get to it now, eh?

You won't be around 50-100 years from now to see it happen.

And, knowing the nature of man, I know it won't happen.

Unless we all turn into robots, or we all have the same exact genetic composition, or we get genetic engineering to remove all evil thoughts from our brains, your vision is nothing more than wishful thinking.

When you look at xix billion people, so many countries, so many different cultures, so many different religions, so many different ways of thinking, so many radical opinions and ambitions, it's a wonder that there are not more world wars.

What do you think is keeping this world, even with its many conflicts, from global destruction and sending us all back to the stone age?

Originally posted by Artashes
kckclass, sounds like your visit was a long long time ago! You would be amazingly stunned if you decide to visit a place like Moscow today. This is the biggest city for business in the world today. Even New York does not stand close. ;)


Very true - it has indeed changed for the last 3 years.
Very large business area with it's dark sides.

regards,
M.

Putin is somewhat contrary to liberal aims set for russia as of now.

Adorno...welcome back but let's not bring the 'fund the military vs. fund global education' debate to this thread, ok? You and I have differing opinions about that issue to be sure.


As for the changes in Russian business/cities: I was there in 2001 and was in Saratov which will change slowly compared to Moscow but fast enough just the same.


And finally, as for the near term Russian outlook I don't know jack compared to you Russians here who follow it daily. I do have some friends there who say it isn't pretty, work is tough, rents and utlities are skyrocketing and as I said, if Putin can change that, great. If not, someone else will try and if they also fail there may be a slide back to communism that many there (from what my friends have suggested) are leaning towards although I doubt such a move would successfully reduce rents, suddenly make bread and heating oil more available.


What I do think is that if Russia moves into the EU it may help. From what I gather no one wants rubles...probably the most worthless currency in the world compared to the educated population it represents. And geographically Russia will always have an uphill battle. It is tough to repair the economy of a country who's greatest riches are buried in permafrost although I do know there are some heavy oil deposits to the south. Time will tell what happens next.

being here in Russia, it is sometimes even hard to imagine that people over the ocean follow our local news and are so well informed about the events.

I got to know that Putin fired the ministers just a couple of hours before I saw this post. That's pretty fast taking into account that it is a webhosting centered forum :)

I do have some friends there who say it isn't pretty, work is tough, rents and utlities are skyrocketing.


Work is tough, I like that, work is tough everywhere! Rent and utilities are pretty high, but not as high as in US, I do the compare thing, and generally, if you don't want to work, you will find it tough anywhere. You know, many Russians aren't willing to change anything, they go to work 8/5 and always expect things from the state, they don't take initiative and don't want to take responsibility. With that attitude it IS hard to change anything, that's why people find it easier to complain about things and not do anything to change the situation. I know this from the inside, I've been living here for 24 years, and know what I am talking about.

Russian ruble, actually it's getting stronger vs. USD at the moment, in a few months it went from 1:30 to 1:28 and the situation is still getting better. Few people are leaning towards communism or stuff like that. People are bright enough to understand that this is a way to nowhere. Your permafrost point is valid, but then look at other countries who are on the same latitude. They keep going without too many complaints. Reason is - people know how to work and do stuff, they know they are the only ones who can make happiness for themselves and not wait for the state to bring it to them on a plate.

Anyway, I believe things are slowly changing for the better, at least for those who want that to happen and doing something to reach that.

still if do work too hard and start doing too well, there is a great risk that either the State or the Mob will ask you to share your wealth... It's not about the habbits, it's all about the rules.

kckclass, cool posts :cool:

thanks but not everyone agrees...I can be an opinionated idiot just like anyone...so I always lean towards edu to try to get smarter...heh heh.


Anyway, permafrost economies: iceland, finland...high tech.

sweden...high tech and tourism...

korea...high tech and a thread here about tortured dogs


canada, alaska...minerals and high tech, lumber etc.

so you don't see a lot of agriculture (food products) grown in ice and even manufacturing appears limited in successful countries unless it involves high tech...now poland sells steel to the U.S...I bought $40,000.00 of it 5 years ago. but in general, women don't like to make steel and a lot of the russian economy is based on the female...

btw phpdeveloper...great posts and yes, if someone tries to survive in any jungle, they live and if not, they are food for others...and won't lament for long since their life will often turn into a blur of disasters and they die. last night I fought near hurricane winds at my house http://www.eduhosting.org/pics/myhome.jpg which isn't working right since I host from the boat (but may be up later) and was on deck in 60knot (75mph) winds at anchor, getting large waves crashing into my face as I secured gear here and there...you fight or die and go to the rocks. that is life at nearly every level.

but when it gets that desperate I HOPE people slowly during their lives pick up technical skills so things can be easier. today a guy came out here to my boat at anchor (storm was in after-blast mode) who grew up in Alabama in hurricanes at 150mph and said 'this storm was peanut change' and I believe him but it was still a blast.

so edu and fighting leads to jobs and a better standard of living. btw...what has been putin's stance on free college grants etc.?