Hi my fellow webhosts. About a month ago I got a client who purchased a webhosting plan from me valued at $85/year.
Now today I got a chargeback from him/her. The email address used in the purchase was a yahoo address. I should've been wiser and investigated the charge :(

Anyways, the email address used in the purchase was:

daldhunt@yahoo.com
and the domain name he/she got hosted was treestars.net

So just a friendly warning to you all DO NOT ACCEPT CHARGES FROM THIS EMAIL ADDRESS. And another thing disable sigups from a yahoo/hotmail account, thats what im gonna do.


Best regards,

Asher.

Cant you fight that with the credit card company? You might think it wouldnt be worth the time, but if your companies name gets out in the "carding" crowd they may show up more often at your site! Just an idea ;)


--- Brad

Brad,

Excellent idea. And I will fight this chargeback. However first I'm gonna have the person who 'carded' my site caught. Can any one pass on suggestions on how I should go about this?

I'm also thinking of verifying expensive orders.

best regards,

Asher.

well if your hosting company doesnt target newbies than i guess you should stop accepting hotmail/yahoo users. I too have a hotmail account that is used just for forum purposes and when i contact host im using it although it is not my "main" address

Well i dont think we'll stop accepting yahoo/hotmail -- we'll just confirm each order which comes from such an address. What else can we do?

Regards,

Asher.

What was the domain name used?

_______ _____
Donald Tait
OzWebHost.Net

I like the fact that thier website is now pointed to yours. Thats great!

This domain treestars.net is owned by the 'fraud' is it really pointing to my website? If so its not possible .... if you take a look at his/her nameservers they're not pointing to mine. This is indeed very strange, i have no idea what this person is trying to accomplish :(

Regards,

Asher.

when i type in treestars.net it comes up with your page. but www.treestars.net goes no where. I didn't take a look at the nameserver though.... Maybe they didn't change it for treestars.net and since there is no virtual domain in your httpd.conf file for treestars, it is going to the default domain?

My own domain isnt a default domain on my server. Infact only my domain has a dedicated IP address my clients get a shared ip. I really have no clue as to what this person is trying to do.

:puke: treestars.net :puke:
:flamethr: treestars.net :flamethr:
:sickface: treestars.net :sickface:
:bomb: treestars.net :bomb:

I would NEVER accept an order with a "free" email address. If they are on the Internet, unless they are signed up with the World's Crappiest ISP, they will have an isp email address. And if they don't want to enter that, too bad.

Hi folks-

I've worried about this issue many times in the past. However, we have not cut off free email addresses. I'm guessing somewhere around a third of our clients use free email addresses. If we turned away everyone with a free email address, we would be turning away many good customers. It's a tough decision... You have to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk.

^Kyo, do you have a "30 day money-back-guarantee?" You said you got this client "about a month ago." If you do have a guarantee, they may say they deserved a refund, and you could have a problem fighting the chargeback. (Please, do not misunderstand me. I'm NOT saying they do deserve a refund, but they may say they deserve a refund.) My point is that because of the time-frame involved, you could see difficulty fighting the chargeback.

-Lamar

This is pretty common - and for $85/yr I wouldn't even bother pursuing it...I can guarantee you won't win. Unless you have a signature, it is lost cash. We sent 20 pages of proof before (logs, statement of verification from users ISP the IP in the logs was theirs, etc) Denied - CC companies could care less about the merchant - accept it now to save yourself the pain of pursuing these.

to appletreats:

Yes I know, I should've been more careful. I was just kind of busy so I didnt call up to confirm this order. From now on, I'm gonna request a faxed copy of the cc each time.


to lamar:
We have a 15 day money back guarantee and upto yet we have'nt refunded one customer! :) We have quite a good record when it comes to satisfying clients. However this was clear credit card fraud. After some investigations this IP turned to be from somplace else rather than USA where the cc came from. But anyways we avoided the chargeback by doing a refund first. Luckly the idiot who ordered used an AMEX card so we were able to do a refund quite quickly.

to marksy:

Yeap i totally agree. However this is a clear case of credit card fraud.

Anyways thanks guys for your suggestions :)

Regards,

Asher.

Originally posted by ^Kyo

Anyways, the email address used in the purchase was:

daldhunt@yahoo.com
and the domain name he/she got hosted was treestars.net


First off, why are you even accepting new signups from free email accounts? I would say 90% (or more) signups come from free email accounts so the loser cant be "tracked" (yah right). Every person (99.9%) that has access to the internet usually has a ISP account. We learned over 5 years ago to never accept a new account from a free email address...hope you learn as well :)

Well from now on we'll confirm each free order as i said before.

regards,

Asher.

I use a free web based email account for my web hosting -- so I have a copy of my account information, etc so I don't lose it if my computer freaks out and I have to reformat my hard drive... (which has happened -- that's why I started using a free web based email account - not yahoo or hotmail though).

I'm not saying you shouldn't rule them out - but verification is good -- but some people would be weary of faxing in their credit card to anyone.... I know I would... But that's just me...

:D

I hope everything works out fine!

Tonya

We actually wont request the entire credit card ....

all we will require is a copy of the statement and card. Just black out the first few numbers leaving only the last 4 digits of the cc number. I suppose this is a precautionary measure we *have* to take. Its not like we're blacklisting hotmail/yahoo! addresess :D
In all this bit of fraud really annoyed me :)

Luckly it was AMEX so we could refund the order.... if it was visa oh my God i dont even wanna think about it ;)

Regards,

Asher.

Hi
We screen out most of the free e-mail addresses.
We use a fax back confirmation
And we have chargeback insurance.

In total our losses from chargebacks have dropped from $1000 per month to $20 or $30.
The only ones our insurers won't touch are where the card issue country doesn't match the country given on the form.
I am working to tie the two together so that if they don't match the transaction is rejected.

I just fought off my first chargeback using the signature on the faxback form as evidence.
It worked!

We need to keep on top of it and challenge all the chargebacks using the form signatures or our insurance premiums will rocket.
We pay Worldpay.com an additional 1% plus $30 per month for the insurance but its well worth the money for the peace of mind it brings.

There's nothing quite like getting the odd $95 back from the insurers when some slimeball has decided he wants free services by charging back a valid transaction 6 months later.


Gordon

Yeap chargebacks sux -- always the merchant has to suffer :(

I'm now trying to implement a fraud screen function where the order gets rejected if the IP is from a different country than the credit card holders country.

no offence man, and i dont know the full story but its probably your fault. I've been on this list for a while, and ive seen that most of the hosts here, are aragant, want everything and not have to do nothing people, I read a lot of tosses if your tos contrasts anything in your offer (and this happens a lot) then as far as i'm concerned you should not just get a few charge backs, you should go to jail, I'm not saying you are involved with any dishonest business practice, maybe this dude that did the charge back just changed his or her mind. which is as bad as what most hosts do by making offers then getting geedy.


but the answer is simple. untill hosts deside to move into the real business world, with physical paper signed contracts that spell out in detail what one gets for what one pays. you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT ANYTHING. i fermy beleave that 9 times out of 10 hosts are the dishonest party.

I'm sure im going to get reamed by the hosts out there, but incase you havent figured it out yet. I don't give a damn about what the hosts think of me. well no more than I care what a used (pre owned) car dealer thinks of me.

thank you
Jason Miller:homer:

don't get me wrong I do thing there are some good hosts out there, 1 out of every 10 hosts i think can be trusted. just a matter of finding them.

What?! My fault?? Are you crazy man? My tos is plain and simple. we refund each order if you provide a reason for it. We ask for a reason for that we can improve! Not so that we can steal a persons f******g money! How dare you even think that. Our tos plain and simple like any other hosts's tos.

And i can give you the email addresses of all our clients they're all satisfied! Who on earth are you to judge whether we care for our clients or not???

Dont pass around this crap on this board. You cant just pop out of the blue and start acusing a merchant of fraud.

I hope you do hear from hosts on this topic.

Bah.

I have a couple free e-mail accounts because I do not have Internet at home. It doesn't mean I'm cheap and dishonest. My company allows personal use after hours. I set up the free accounts so non-work e-mails don't go to my work addy. (I only just built a computer for home use, but have been too busy to fix a busted land line so I can have Internet access at home. And I like to have some time away from a computer, so am in no hurry.)


Any time you use or accept credit cards you do so with a risk. Even brick & mortar stores run the risk that the goods being purchased with a stolen or bogus credit card (received with false credentials), and the occasional dishonest chargeback. Likewise every time I use my credit card I know that my account and therefore my credit can be compromised. Most recently a local waitress was arrested because she pilfered CC data from customers and was using this info to shop online.

The only way to make business transactions almost completely risk free is to accept cash only (and hope you can spot counterfeits). And that is riskier for the consumer.

Originally posted by Ihoppoet
but the answer is simple. untill hosts deside to move into the real business world, with physical paper signed contracts that spell out in detail what one gets for what one pays. you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT ANYTHING.

Can you tell us how this should work? Do you expect a customer for a 10$ per month package to sign some contract? Do you go to your local store, buy a sixpack bear and they require you to sign some papers? Get real.

i fermy beleave that 9 times out of 10 hosts are the dishonest party.

Pardon me, but that's probably complete nonsense. Many hosts face signups with stolen credit cards or other fraud, but they don't run around and shout "9 of 10 customers are dishonest".

Kyo,

You are over reacting..... We have lost multiple orders that range from $50 - $120 because of fraud and chargebacks.... Try not to offer yearly plans to avoid losing big.

Originally posted by Walter


Can you tell us how this should work? Do you expect a customer for a 10$ per month package to sign some contract? Do you go to your local store, buy a sixpack bear and they require you to sign some papers? Get real.



Pardon me, but that's probably complete nonsense. Many hosts face signups with stolen credit cards or other fraud, but they don't run around and shout "9 of 10 customers are dishonest".

why dont you get real, my card works this way and im sure most others do as well, if someone charges something to my cridit card wether its myself or not, and I call the company and say don't honnor it, if there is not a signed recipe` then as far as all honest cridet card providers are conserned its not a valid transaction. so how about putting a printable contract on your site that a card holder can print, read, fill out, and sign, and then either mail, or fax it to you, no offence but asking how this can be done, and comparing it to buying a beer( which is normanly a cash transaction,) is not the smartest thing ive read on here. <b>(if its bought with a card, then yes you do sign something, think back, they swipe your card, a minute later two little sheets of paper print up one yellow one white. you sign them, keep the yellow and hand over the white. sometimes its the other way around but i think you get the point</b>

thank you
Jason Miller:homer:

Originally posted by ^Kyo
What?! My fault?? Are you crazy man? My tos is plain and simple. we refund each order if you provide a reason for it. We ask for a reason for that we can improve! Not so that we can steal a persons f******g money! How dare you even think that. Our tos plain and simple like any other hosts's tos.
And i can give you the email addresses of all our clients they're all satisfied! Who on earth are you to judge whether we care for our clients or not???
Bah.

if you would have read my post you would have seen that i didnt say it was your fault, i infact said i do not know the details. as well I nor anyone else here know both sides of the story! however I did take a look at your tos and I found this:
(10. ADE reserves the right to change this agreement without any prior written notice.)

In my opinion, this infact proves you are not an honest host.. if a host offers a valid serves, and has nothing to hide, then there is no reason to change anything. if I pay you and then you later say sorry, we've changed you not getting what you paid for, your gitting what we want to let you have, then your a criminal. dellz.com did this. and they are with out a doubt criminals,
" btw, to those who are following, still no refund."

thank you
Jason Miller:homer:

disclaimer, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone hass one!

You should submit such information to hostabuse.com. They also have an API to check domain for previous fraudulant order.

Peter

If all CC transactions on the internet start requiring written consent and faxed documentation, E-commerce is dead. Everyone should pack up their businesses and close their websites.

Business on the internet is NOT the same as 'brick and mortar' stores. Everyone should know this. There is no fool-proof plan to stop fraud. This is the nature of doing business on the web.

Jack, I think Lamar is very right.

And maybe you should read the other part of my posting where I quoted you
i fermy beleave that 9 times out of 10 hosts are the dishonest party.

and I told you
Pardon me, but that's probably complete nonsense.
Many hosts face signups with stolen credit cards or other fraud, but they don't run around and shout "9 of 10 customers are dishonest

If someone shouts "you are all idiots, I am the king" he is either a troll or should think a bit about his postings.

Can you tell us how this should work? Do you expect a customer for a 10$ per month package to sign some contract? Do you go to your local store, buy a sixpack bear and they require you to sign some papers? Get real.


YES - thats exactly what happens if you pay by credit card in a store even for small items.
You sign the print out from the terminal or a manual swiped voucher.
This is part of the card issuers contract with the merchant and the card holder.
A signature is required for every credit card transaction.
Just as well really, or anybody could use anyones card.

Gordon

^Kyo,

I have also been hit a few times... 249.95 and 195.95...

You can fight back if you have there IP Addresses. If they are overseas though good luck.

Always tracert you incoming accounts if the address for billing is in the states and the tracert is outside, watch out.

Thanks for the info but I can guarantee you they will not use the same yahoo email with the next one...


Wes :)

KG:

We're not saying that all people who use a free addy are dishonest -- NO. We just want to verify such orders for their legitimacy.


Synergy:

We're not gonna offer yearly plans any more.

Ihoppoet:

I really dont know what to say to you... you're probably one of those customers who are never satisfied. Thank God that all my customers are reasonable people. And mister, if you take a look at any tos you will notice that each host reserves the same right!