Im starting a design/hosting site and am thinking how deep into flash could i go? Just the navigation or the whole site? What are your views on this as i realise flash takes ages to load for 56kers!

I suggest to use flash only in header. Don't use flash in content because not everyone likes it, because search engines don't read it (you wanna be listed in search engines, right?) and because of modem users.

Airnine says: "if one is trying to sell certain info, one should focus on the info"

Right okay, so flash in the header - perhaps some promotions in flash. so like if im running a special package i could make like a little movie thing.

Originally posted by CyberAlien
I suggest to use flash only in header. Don't use flash in content because not everyone likes it, because search engines don't read it (you wanna be listed in search engines, right?) and because of modem users.

Okay, so flash in the header. Could i have my navigation links in the header too?

if you do have navigation in flash, make sure you also provide it as text links (usually at bottom). for one thing, search engines won't see flash so they won't crawl your other pages. and if someone doesnt have flash they won't be able to access other pages.

Correct, I think you should only use flash to spice it up in the header, mayey even the navigation... But I tend to use more rollovers for the navigation rather then flash...

A little flash is a nice touch, but the instant you start using it to much it becomes a distraction from the sites content.

(...)flash takes ages to load for 56kers!

What takes ages to load is loads of data! The trouble is if you want to animate complicated stuff it will lead to a big file, hence taking ages to download from a dial-up connection.
There's a lot of cool things you can do in Flash and still get a decent sized file (I've seen lots of cool flash banners around and those are really lightweight files).
The real problem with Flash is the content not getting in SEs.

Cheers,

There is alot to consider when designing your website. I guess the first would be if you even know how to use flash. If you dont, a flash website could be a awful discrace to the internet. :) If your a pro, then i dont have to tell you that flash is (can be) an eye opener, and can make your company look very professional to the average websurfer who sees 90% static based pages.

Static webpages have been around alot longer then Flash. Although flash has alot to offer, its still hard to get placed into search engines with only flash content. However, you should never rely soley on your webpages content to get into search engines. META tags, submissions (paid or unpaid) etc are also a part of search engine placement.

But sometimes, it depends on personal preference. Alot of designers/site owners care more about appearance and uniqueness rather then search engine spyders crawling thier page. Even if you have a full fledged flash site your page will still get listed with your keywords, title etc. As far as filesize, it applies to EVERYTHING. Proper optimization can work wonders with images, flash, video or whatever. Then there are preloaders that can keep you busy and entertained while waiting.

Then, there is always the option to create a hybrid site, half and half. You can also create two versions, a static and a flash based version of the site. That way everyone is happy.

The development of webpages is supported by hundreds of programs and is very versitile to create just about anything you can think of, so dont limit your website to just what you see on other peoples webpages.

98% have flash installed

...you mean flash 2 or higher

94% have flash 5 installed
87% have flash 6 installed
flash 7 hasnt been out yet long enough to get a large consumer base so dont even consider using it

i wouldnt hesitate to use it. If the player is needed, a dialog box will pop up telling you what you need and how to get it. The world will never update if people like you dont give it a reason to.

the problem is a lot of people either can not update it (think of people on large networks/in a corporation where they don't have enough privileges to install things) or are unwilling to install things they don't understand for fear of viruses and the like. not everyone is as computer literate as us. the majority of people will leave a site if they don't see anything after a few seconds or are asked to install something. thats just how it is.

you say "the world will never update if people like you don't give it a reason to." this might be ok for a personal site but if you are working on an actual businesses site, those users that can't see it (the majority) will result in HUGE profit losses. are you willing to sacrifice all that money for the sake of being an evangelist and "forcing" everyone to update?

the truth is that few will update. even if they have the ability to update and they are not worried about updating, it requires far more work to install the flash 7 plugin then it does to hit the back button.

Hmm okay well i will link you guys to what i got so far and let me know what you think - http://www.fizzyjelly.com/beta/index.htm
The site is no way near finished yet.

Well, there are lots of other problems a site might have besides Flash. My online banking suffers from crappy-coding in its Java structure. It doesn't run on Mozilla, it doesn't run on MacOS, and now they told me to upgrade to IE6 to get it working properly!

you say "the world will never update if people like you don't give it a reason to." this might be ok for a personal site but if you are working on an actual businesses site, those users that can't see it (the majority) will result in HUGE profit losses. are you willing to sacrifice all that money for the sake of being an evangelist and "forcing" everyone to update?

Using Flash doesn't necessary mean huge profit loses. The decision should depend on the type of products/services you are selling.
What you always have to consider, when specing-out your website is this basic and absolutely fundamental question: "What is my website's users' profile?" Then the option to use Flash (and to what degree) will become more clear.
If you're selling peanuts online, make your site monkey-friendly! :D
If you're developing a site for a bank, you don't have to mind about the users 'cause the bank's already got their money!
If you're selling consumer products, stick with the lowest common denominator in terms of specifications and screen size and keep flash to banners and such.

Regards,

i wasnt saying flash itself would cause profit losses, i meant using a version of flash that less then 5% of people have (and those 5% are mostly flash developers)

oh and for the site posted on the other page, it looks pretty good. one thing i would do would be to make the menu "apple like". you know, on mac osx how when you roll over it they get bigger. kinda like these links :
http://www.markme.com/mesh/ - look at the macromedia product icons in the right column

www.showlogic.com - look at services

Right okay - any other comments or suggestions with the use of my flash.

I think the best is to get the header and navigation in flash and the rest just .html

Yep thats what i have done. But with text navigation at the bottom for search engines etc.