Looking at them both on the forums they both seem to have pro and cons, but with the budget I have it has to be one of those two.

Now, I like myPaySystems (dont know why I got directed to that one instead on PaySystems, but I guess its because of my low turnover at the mo) as it lets me bill in the most common currencies($, £), whereas 2CO only bills in US$

Do I just toss a coin in the air and go with the one it lands on or do you have any advice (and not the 'none of them' kind please as I need to start somewhere before shelling out monthly fees with WorldPay et all)

Thanks for your time.

Ryan

Id prefer 2CheckOut personally, but i guess it all comes down to what YOU need it for

I've always found 2CO to be a more personal company and they do seem to actually care about clients. Paysystems has never replied to any support tickets I've raised

Rus

Originally posted by Heymish
Id prefer 2CheckOut personally, but i guess it all comes down to what YOU need it for

I need to take payments for hosting, domains and web design (and maybe my other business, but thats only a wish thing not essential)

There wont be hundreds of transactions so dont want a minimum transaction thing either.

Thanks for the help so far - between here and another forum 2CO looks a good bet

Ryan

//edit: looking at mypaysystem for smaller business, $49 set up and then just 3.95% transactions fee....in 3 curencies...mmmm.

Anyone know how they get your money to you in the UK (cant see it on their site)

Where are you based Ryan? Most merchant accounts will handle international billing as long as the gateway supports it.

When you say a merchant account is way too much - if you are based in the US - 20 transactions at $100 is about $73.00 - including gateway fees, etc. Using those sames numbers & the numbers posted on 2CO, your monthly total is about $119. Setting up a merchant account does not cost a lot - usually less than $200 if that.

I have also looked at both and have decided to go with 2CO. Although slightly dearer then Pay Systems (in terms of transaction fees) they seem to have a better relationship with there clients/merchants and are less prone to errors.

You can also convert the payment in various currencies (UK Sterling, Euro, Yen....etc) upon checkout.

corey - I am in the UK so you can guess prices get higher for some reason :)

Speechdemo - thanks for that, looks like 2CO is winning so far even though you have to bill in US$

Ryan

rchosts - you are correct. If you did have a corporation in the US & a US bank account, the rates would be about 3.32% because if something did happen - you do not have a social security number to be tracked. In the US, they use the SSN to track everything these days & to report it th credit agencies.

Hm, maybe if we come up with a single number for everyone & new reporting agency like TRW, maybe we can do away with some of those higher percentages? ;)

2CO

Its got great support and almost same rates as PaySys.

Originally posted by rchosts
Anyone know how they get your money to you in the UK (cant see it on their site)

rchosts-

PaySystems will wire you the money once a week or when you reach a self imposed minimum settlement value. The wire fee is $10.

You can also have the money sent by check, it takes a little longer but it is free.

Oh, by the way, you were redirected to myPaySystems because that is our new site that is targeted to small to medium sized businesses.

In terms of choosing merchant service provider I would suggest narrowing your list down to a precious few and then calling sales reps from each company, or write an email and have them call you (save a couple of bucks). In the end you should go with your gut feeling.

Paul
PaySystems

Cheers Paul.

I have been told tehre are forms to fill in and fax back to you guys to get it all set up properly. Is that true?

Looking to go to paysystems as I prefer to bill in GBP (or can I bill in all three)

Anyway
Thanks for getting back - its definately between you guys and 2CO

Ryan

Ryan,

You can bill your clients in all three currencies but you need to setup three seperate accounts to do that. It's may be a good idea to start out with one account and then move to open new accounts as it becomes necessary.

If you do choose PaySystems you will need to sign the contract and fax it back to us so we have a signed version on file. You can also scan and email it.

Thanks
Paul

Pablo,

Why does paysystems charge fee to transfer to a Canadian bank account? Paypal, Internetsecure and many others do it for free. I was under the impression that electronic transfers (not the old-style "wire transfer") were very easy an inexpensive to do - actually CHEAPER than printing, signing and mailing a check.

You guys are based in Montreal, right?

Also well I have your attention, will my customers credit card statements say "paysystems", "sightz.com via paysystems" or "sightz.com"?

If they only say "paysystems" how do you handle the "I never ordered from paysystems" type of chargebacks?

Cheers - think i will be signing up soon then.

Ryan

Sightz,

There is 10$ wire transfer fee that is charged by the banks and not PaySystems.

Unfortunately we are not setup to handle EFT (Electronic Funds Transfer) to Canadian bank accounts. The main reason is that the vast majority of our business is based in the US and Europe and it would not be cost effective for us to setup the EFT system for our Canadian Merchants. As our Canadian business grows I'm sure we will move to incorporate EFT.

We have offices in Montreal, London, Boston and New York.

Your clients will see www.mypaysystems.com on their CC statement. The phone # next to the descriptor is our toll free billing number.

In the event that a client does not recognize the charge and calls us to inquire our billing department is able to tell them exactly where the charge originated, for what amount and the date of the purchase.

Paul

Originally posted by pablo514
Your clients will see www.mypaysystems.com on their CC statement. The phone # next to the descriptor is our toll free billing number.

Do you have a demo account or screenshots so I can learn exactly what the customers see when logging in to "Log in and Identify a Charge" in your Consumer Service Center?

Perhaps you could charge my card a few cents so I could investigate the whole customer experience? (Which obviously would be an important part of our decision to sign up with Paysystems)

Do you have an account? If so you can buy a product from yourself and rfund it later- or even log on to www.mypaysystems.com to request a refund.

Unfortunately I don't have the ability to charge your credit card a few cents.

Paul

So there is no way for me to find out what my customers will see without first signing up for your service? Seems like a lot of work. What if we pay the $49 setup fee and then discover the the customer experience sucks?

Might I suggest that you pass along the idea to establish a demo customer account for potential merchants?

We have a demo account for potential clients where you can view the Merchant Control Center.

http://mcc.paysystems.com/
CID: 3900
Password: Demo

Paul

Cool. That's half of what I need to know before signing up. Frankly the customer interface is much more critical.

Originally posted by rchosts
Cheers Paul.

I have been told tehre are forms to fill in and fax back to you guys to get it all set up properly. Is that true?

Looking to go to paysystems as I prefer to bill in GBP (or can I bill in all three)

Anyway
Thanks for getting back - its definately between you guys and 2CO

Ryan Faxing all that paperwork in was where I ran into the problems with Paysystems. I have a Merchant account now with CDG Commerce and I would recommend them above anything else, however 2Checkout has never lost any critical information or been late with payments. Paysystems lost some 9 pages of confidential information that I had faxed to their underwriting dept. I had a sales rep that took many days to look into it and then his best solution is for me to fax everything back in to them. Now I had a receipt for the fax and I know it was completed successfully. After that experience I wasn't about to give them any of my money...

Underwriting losing documents like this is not the first time either, there are a few threads here with people having the same problems.

I have my clients fax their documentation directly to me, that way I can avoid any potential problems.

Paul

Hello,
(i am from euro-zone member country)
You said that PaySystems can either wire funds (10$) or send the check - but it is slower of course.
My question : the check is written is what currency? In Euros? Or whatever currency? Or are they always written in US dollar equivalent (because they come from your US branch office?)?
Also, I read that you have a UK and a German branch office.
Germany=Euro-zone... so why can you not arrange simple IBAN/BIC money transfer within euro-zone? (I was told you did not do IBAN/BIC) For euro-zone transfers, we do not pay any "internationnal" transaction fees, just the same as a national transfer, so it would be REALLY welcome :)
Last question just to be sure
:rolleyes: does PaySystem mention the merchant name or logo on the Credit Card statement?
Thanks a lot

I have my clients fax their documentation directly to me, that way I can avoid any potential problems.

You must be the only person that responds to mail at PS, then :-(

My experience with PS is very poor. Their response to to sales and general enquiries is virtually non-existent. Their ticket responses has often been very poor in the past.

Over the last year or so we have tried to set up services THREE times and ended up putting it elsehwere, even though we have an account, because of slow or non-existent support matters.

The lates saga is one involving the account being locked pending a new service agreement signature. This was done on the 16th. Still no response in spite of around 5 emails, 2 requested phone call-backs and 2 faxes!!

We sent a sales ticket in and replied to that and that was ignored too.

--
Dr S

I finally jumped and went to PaySystems and Paul has helped me along the application line by email - so far so good :)

Lets see how it goes from here, but either way I am grateful to Paul for his help (and you guys for the suggestions!)

Ryan

Dr Strangelove,

PM me with your company ID and I will look into your account to see if I can help solve your porblem.

Paul
PaySystems

PM me with your company ID and I will look into your account to see if I can help solve your porblem.
Well, I have PM'd you, Pablo. To be honest with you the service and attitude to customers has been so profoundly poor in my experience, I'd rather just have my $50 back :-(

The last "sales" guy that got involved (Lenny Rosenhek) was either completely ineffective or just couldn't be hacked with it.

You know my experience as a purchaser (as opposed to a merchant) hasn't been problem-free either. Customer Service again!

I was thinking of going with paysystems in addition to 2checkout but after i was trying to sign up i am not 100% confident in them.

I sent them my voided check and drivers license, and they said they lost it. So after much much complaining they finally "found" them and then said i needed to resend it because one of them was upside down, my response: "how hard is it to turn the paper upside down?"

another problem is that the customers can self issue refunds whenever they please, and this issue has been brought up several times by people and paysystems has not said anything that i know of, my TOS says that we dont allow refunds, and if paysystems allows customers to refund themselves, well that would cause alot of problems for me

Well thats just the sort of thing I have experienced. They just are not fucused on helping your business.

In spite of what pablo/paul has said, 3 days ago, there is STILL no reponse from PS.

They look quite good on paper but in practice they are just bureaucratic and frankly don't seem to care about their own business. No chance they care about yours then is there, really? :-(

--
Dr S

I sent them my voided check and drivers license, and they said they lost it. This seems to be a current, recurring problem at Paysystems. I'd guess they wanted you to re-fax it not because it was upside down but because they never really found it...

Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
I sent them my voided check and drivers license, and they said they lost it. This seems to be a current, recurring problem at Paysystems. I'd guess they wanted you to re-fax it not because it was upside down but because they never really found it...

actually, at first they said they couldnt find it, then i gave them a week and they finally "found it" but complained about it being upside down. so they were just bsing excuses i guess

:confused:
Well, now I'm dismayed. A month or so ago I looked at all the posts in the reseller forum comparing paysystems with 2CO and I got the overwhelming opinion that paystsems was the way to go. I have been building my reseller site and I'm almost ready to go live with it and until tonight I had been planning on signing up with paysystems. But YEOW! The tone sure has changed! Now it seems 2CO is the more reliable of the two.

At the moment I am at a loss - I dont know which way to go.

Is paysystems on a downturn? Is 2CO on an upturn?
What's going on?

I still have an active 2CO account. I can say over the past year that my only problem with 2CO was that series of DDOS attacks and their lack of updates that prompted me to begin the move to a Merchant Account.

If I was forced to use a 3rd party gateway and needed to choose between Paysystems and 2CO today, I would still choose 2CO.

well i signed up to PaySystems on the 29th of December, paid the next day and still nothing has come through :(

Have spoken to Paul here via email who said it should be through, but everything slowed down due to holidays and so on....

So, 6 days on and still no stuff to sign up :(

Ry

6 days and they still haven't signed you up!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Ohhhhh - this does not sound good at all. Holidays or no, 6 days and still waiting is much to long just to sign you up .... especially when you've already paid them.
Are their similar horror stories with 2CO?
I'm getting the feeling that both businesses are having some pretty big problems.

Well, as i said previously, you don't have to be "new" custiomer to be treated badly by PS. I've been waiting some 20 days now for a reply to several emails/faxes and phone callback requests. Nothing! And so much for Paul/Pablo. Nothing!

Paysystems is not to be recommended.

--
Dr S

There is another thread going about the refund issue:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221631

Something that should be considered greatly...even if your customers receive perfect service, they can get their money back without you even being notified with paysystems.

Hmm. I missed that. I see what you mean. Maybe its a good thing I can't currently use PS because of their indifference. No wonder Paul/Pablo left town :mad:

--
Dr S

time to use the chargeback to get my fee back then :)

Originally posted by rchosts
time to use the chargeback to get my fee back then :)

Just to try and throw a little humor into this, can you find that transaction through the mypaysystems interface and request the refund? Wouldn't that be ironic?

Just to try and throw a little humor into this, can you find that transaction through the mypaysystems interface and request the refund? Wouldn't that be ironic? Ironic? Or Justice? :D

Ironic? Or Justice?
Both I guess- mainly the latter :D :D :D

It is somewhat amazing to me that PaySystems doesn't simply at least add in an e-mail notification to the auto-cancellation process... at the very least to let merchants know when a refund is being automatically issued per request of a customer.

use 2co i like it ant it works he he

Originally posted by Matt
Just to try and throw a little humor into this, can you find that transaction through the mypaysystems interface and request the refund? Wouldn't that be ironic?

yes you can see it in paysystems - and may i add that the charge back quote of mine was in jest :rolleyes:

Sorry guys, I have read all on paysystems.com and I am tired already. I am total beginner in e-commerce. Can you please tell me 1 thing. I am in **Belgium**. I want to sell my services online (templates, icons , logos etc ) , receive payment with cc and then withdraw money directly on my bank account (like with PayPal : "withdraw money" and in 4-5 days I have em ). Does paysystem work with non-US bank accounts ? On the demo page I didn't find any info about banks...

Thanks alot,
Nat

I am total beginner in e-commerce...
So you should perhaps take note of some of the comments here :-)

I am in **Belgium**.... Does paysystem work with non-US bank accounts?
Yes they do.

My advice is to look elsewhere. PS are just too much trouble. They drop the ball too many times and they don't care about their own customers.

I gather 2CO is about to offer multicurrencies and a new interface with many gizmos......... Failing that try WorldPay.

--
Dr S

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
So you should perhaps take note of some of the comments here :-)


Yes they do.

My advice is to look elsewhere. PS are just too much trouble. They drop the ball too many times and they don't care about their own customers.

I gather 2CO is about to offer multicurrencies and a new interface with many gizmos......... Failing that try WorldPay.

--
Dr S

:) Thanks for reply. WorldPay is abit expensive.
Suppliers without a US Bank account can have their payments air mailed at no charge or have the option of an international wire payment. Fees for an international wire start at $36 and go down $3 for every hundred dollars in net sales. (Breakdown of International Wire Fees). Each accounting period is 15 days in length. A new period begins the 1st and 16th day of each month.
air mailed? no, that's too incomfortable.
international wire: what they mean? Withdraw on my bank account? Sorry for so primitive questions, but this lexique kills me.
I am french speaker.

Thanks alot for help. I need only 1 thing to understand what is international wire. :)

Nat

international wire: what they mean? Withdraw on my bank account? Sorry for so primitive questions, but this lexique kills me.

Tu t'es excusé avec votre anglais. Excuser mon français.

Le International Wire signifie le paiement par le télégraphe.

WorldPay est peu un cher si tu as peu de ventes.

J'ai eu un compte d'essai à 2CO avant que je sois allé à la PS. J'ai choisi PS parce qu'ils ont accepté d'autres devises. Mais maintenant ainsi volonté 2CO en février. Dans le temps où j'étais examinant moi a trouvé leur suprior lointain de soin de soutien et de client à la PS.

Ils peuvent être au Canada français mais ils ne parlent pas du tout. Pas même français!

Dr S

"All publicly displayed messages are limited to the English language. This includes posts, titles, signatures, as well as any attachments or other forms of public display. The definition of English is left solely to the discretion of moderators."

"All publicly displayed messages are limited to the English language. This includes posts, titles, signatures, as well as any attachments or other forms of public display. The definition of English is left solely to the discretion of moderators."
Oh dear :-) - is that right? Just trying to help the guy out.

En anglais..................

You excused yourself with your English. To excuse my French.

International Wire means the payment by telegraph.

WorldPay is little expensive if you have few sales.

I had an account of test with 2CO before I would have gone with the PS I chose PS because they accepted other currencies. But so will 2CO in February. In the time when I was examining them I found them superior (in hindsight) in support and customer care to PS.

They may be in French Canada but they do not speak at all. Not even French!:D

:D Many thanks for info !
Nat

[in english] Best of luck.

We are in Belgium and we have used 2CO for over 2 years billing about $15,000 per month with them and apart from the recent downtime due to ddos attacks we have been very happy with them. We have been paid on time every month by wire transfer and have only needed their tech support on a handful of occasions.

We have used Eural and Bacob as banks with them and wires come into our account within 4/5 days maximum, due to our level of business we pay no wire fees to 2CO for the transfers.

Our payments and customers billing are at present in USD only but we believe we shall be able to bill our customers soon in many other currencies including Euros, there is a rumour that we may be able to get paid in Euros as well soon.

Paysystems have spammed us several times and we did try to sign up with them but they messed up the whole sign up process so we told them to stick it!!!!

Hope this may help you.

Bob

That's interesting, dvdking. And really really helpful. I think I have solution now.
Thanks,
Nat

Originally posted by dvdking

Paysystems have spammed us several times and we did try to sign up with them but they messed up the whole sign up process so we told them to stick it!!!!

Bob

I've been trying to decide between 2CO and Paysystems as well. I tried to access a demo the latter offered by signing up. I tried twice and didn't receive an email. Seems their signup process is still messed up. I think this experience has produced my final decision, unless somone can convince me otherwise.

- gpb

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Tu t'es excusé avec votre anglais. Excuser mon français.

Le International Wire signifie le paiement par le télégraphe.

WorldPay est peu un cher si tu as peu de ventes.

J'ai eu un compte d'essai à 2CO avant que je sois allé à la PS. J'ai choisi PS parce qu'ils ont accepté d'autres devises. Mais maintenant ainsi volonté 2CO en février. Dans le temps où j'étais examinant moi a trouvé leur suprior lointain de soin de soutien et de client à la PS.

Ils peuvent être au Canada français mais ils ne parlent pas du tout. Pas même français!

Dr S

Je suis avec PaySystems depuis environ 8 mois sans aucuns problèmes à part le support technique qui est plutôt lent à répondre. Le service est A1.

Service is great with PaySystems but you need to find answers by yourself...:)

Me again :) Thanks UltimeWWW. Could you help me more: which account is the best for me? I sell templates, icons, sites. Monthly I have more then $1500 . I need receive payment ( average $200 /customer ) and then send money on my bank account.

Is it right to choose TPP-Sale Service TPP-Sale accounts are for soft goods. This account was designed for merchants who sell services. It includes many features unique to selling soft goods, such as recurring transactions, and free trials.
Thanks,
Nat

Service is great with PaySystems but you need to find answers by yourself
Is that a non-sequitor :) ? Support is great yet you have to do it yourself :)

You know I'm _still_ waiting for a response to my emails and faxes (started the 17th December) and still no responses. In 18 months we have set up 3 separate merchant IDs and on each occassion when we wanted to go live their support failed in the timeframe required. The time prior was a period when their systems were not delivering ticket replies and you couldn't get any answer from their chat link (possiblty because that was the only means of "communication").

We almost didn't sign up in the first place because, again, we couldn't get an answer out of "sales". It was only a chance chat (and thus an intervention) by a supplier of ours that got them to respond.

Interestingly too, if you try to get a refund from them you can do it for any of their client but not them! So, as far as their adminstation is concerened they are either hopelessly disorganised or they don't care.

We have a few clients who we put with WorldPay who are altogether more proffesional. Our experience and many others here probably suggests that really you have to go that (or similar) route or get your own merchant account. Its just too risky putting your business in the hand of PS.

--
Dr S

Here are some of my problems with PaySystems.
- it takes about 3 hours to find out if an order went through. I want to be able to tell my clients much earlier than 3 hours.
- refunds take 10-14 days to go through. That is way too much time.
- I have had one order which went through, but then 2-days later cancelled by PaySystems after I already sent out my product.
- I have had many customers telling me that they have a valid credit card, but their transaction was denied. Some of these customers were fed up, but still wanted my product, so they paid by bank transfer instead... This has happened 5 times.

Would switching to 2CO help solve my problems?

Any advice will help.
Thanks

PaySystem is run by a bunch of crook monkeys! Do you really want monkeys handling your money? -AVOID-

got to say even though it took 6 days to set up (including the christmas period) the account was set up quickly at PaySystems by Paul. He has helped me out via email and I am now in a position to start using PS to get some cash coming in.

Will report back in a month to see whats being going on in PS world :)

Ry

I originally stayed out of this thread, even though 2CO was part of the title, simply because a rep from PS was responding, and most of the questions seemed to be directed that way.

But for an explanation of some of our features, as asked in questions...here goes.

1. Multicurrency. Currently, BUYERS can choose from 12 different currencies to be billed in (non-recurring only). As a Vendor, you would be required to price in US Dollars.

The new backend will allow for the following.
- Website pricing in one of 12 currencies (standard and recurring)
- Purchasing in one of 12 currencies (standard and recurring)
- Payments in one of 12 currencies *to Vendors)

2. Payments. 2CO issues Vendor payments 2x per month. This payment includes sales for the period except the last 48 hours (because we batch settle sales 48 hours after they are entered). This is what allows you to cancel orders or issue refunds for 48 hours, without incurring processing fees. Note that some competition issues payments weekly, but it is your responsibility to question which week you are being paid for... is it the "just completed" week, or a week prior?

2CO does offer weekly payments to Vendors with a clean history, as long as their bi-weekly sales are in excess of $2K

3. Payment Methods - Checks, Bank Wires, ACH transfers. Checks are free. ACH transfers to the USA and selected Canadian banks are FREE. Wire fees are free for payments of $1,200.00 and above. Wire fees would be $3.00 for each $100.00 less than the $1,200.00 benchmark. A $1,000.00 wire would have a fee of $6.00.

Weekly payments by Bank Wire have a minimum fee of $15.00.

(Wire fees will be re-vamped with a new process we are currently considering.)

4. Sales - are processed "real time". Email notifications go to the Buyer and Vendor.

5. Refunds - can not be entered by the purchaser. They need to contact the Vendor or 2CO. We attempt to contact the Vendor and ask the Purchaser to give 48 hours for the Vendor to rectify the situation, in some cases it is simply not possible.

6. Soft Descriptor - we send all the required coding to have the following descriptor show on the statement of the customer.
*2CO.COM*yournamehere*877-294-0273*
Allowance is for 13 characters of your choice. The phone number is our toll free customer support line.

Please note that Visa and MasterCard pick up this coding for a large percentage of their card issuers, but not all. AmEx, Discover, JCB etc do not use the coding to date... though that will likely change.

I think I've answered the bulk of the questions asked <removed>

A timely pitch, Tom :)

As I said higher up I had a test account some time back with 2CO but went to PS simply because of the multiple currencies you are now offering.

From my experience of the two, now you have these changes upcoming there is absolutely no reason why anyone would need to risk the abject commercial unproffesionalism of PS - at the low entry 3rd party market end [my story incidentally just gets worse but watch this space].

Is there a demo or will there be of your new CP?

We currently use a mix of WorldPay and Paypal for most of our sites. WP can be a bit picky about using a single legal entity for multiple sites and are expensive for multiple instances.

--
Dr S

Tom,

I am almost sold on 2CO over Paysystems, mostly because of the PS refunds issue and your new multi-currency system.

Please advise exactly which Canadian banks you can ACH to. If ACH is not available, are checks to Canada in $CAD free?

However, 2CO has a big black mark in my memory because of your HUGE outages last month. I have not seen it clearly explained exactly WHAT happened, WHY it took so long to resolve, WHY DDOS contingencies were not prepared and tested well in advance, WHY there appeared to be no redundancy in your systems, and WHY there seemed to be little or no communication on the issue from 2CO.

It seems most here on WHT have forgiven 2CO and forgotten the rants and raves from only a month ago when you were down. I just want to know the details and find out how you are preventing this in the future.

Question for all who use 2CO. I have opened my account there and today I have read http://www.support.2checkout.com/deskpro/faq.php?article=86
All new accounts will be subjected to our account verification processes.
While this process is usually seamless, difficulty in verifying the legitimacy and status of your account can result in the delay of your initial payments.
How much time they need for verification?

Important Note: Suppliers selling intangible goods, such as service related products (e-downloads, hosting, etc.), should not expect payment until 2CheckOut can confirm that your services have been rendered.
Here I understand nothing. How it works? I am webdesigner and digital artists. I do request 50% prepayment and when work is done my client has to pay the rest. After payment he can download files. Is it my client who must contact 2CO and confirm he has received files? Very strange and before opening my ticket I decided to ask here.

Thanks,
Nat

Nat

Not sure about your 1st point.

As to the second. I wondered about that too at first. I asked previously about tangibles which has the same wording. I think its badly phrased. It is the vendor not the client who determines the delivery status apparently.

If its specifically the advance element, I'm not sure but presmably if that was the terms and youuagreed that with them there would be no problem. Why don't you ask then?

--
Dr S

Many thanks for reply :) I will ask them too. Very friendly service there, btw. And admin panel much better then PaySystems.
Nat

I am almost sold on 2CO over Paysystems, mostly because of the PS refunds issue and your new multi-currency system. 2CO's multi currency feature has been around for about 8 months and works a treat with a little extra coding, the new version described above by TomD (AKA Wadsworth on 2CO forum) has been promised for the past 5 months, initially due for release last September/October but it keeps getting put back.
never the less it will be a great addition to the service when it is eventually released.

Originally posted by TomD
I originally stayed out of this thread, even though 2CO was part of the title, simply because a rep from PS was responding, and most of the questions seemed to be directed that way.

But for an explanation of some of our features, as asked in questions...here goes.

1. Multicurrency. Currently, BUYERS can choose from 12 different currencies to be billed in (non-recurring only). As a Vendor, you would be required to price in US Dollars.

The new backend will allow for the following.
- Website pricing in one of 12 currencies (standard and recurring)
- Purchasing in one of 12 currencies (standard and recurring)
- Payments in one of 12 currencies *to Vendors)


Q1: Will vendors need to make changes again (like redo the payment integration/coding etc) when 2CO implement this new backend?



TomD:

your (2CO's) site has this display in FAQ section for almost 6 months:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Q:Can check service be used for recurring billing?

Ans: Yes, if a buyer is set up for recurring billing, a check will be written against their bank account at each interval (Currently Being Added).
-------------------------------------------------------------


Q2: When will the e-check feature start accepting re-curring payments?

Thanks.

Rick Kumar

as a P.S. to the "a little extra coding"
for those interested, there are at least 2 2CO vendors whose multi currency scripts are freely available... I think they're only in php though

Originally posted by ZiXeR
as a P.S. to the "a little extra coding"
for those interested, there are at least 2 2CO vendors whose multi currency scripts are freely available... I think they're only in php though

What are you refering to? Why do a vendor need little extra coding?

Please, also provide the names of those 'free script' vendors?

Does anyone covers re-curring subscriptions/memberships in their scripts?

Thanks for your time.

Regards,

Kumar

I'm sure I'll miss some questions...but here's a quick stab...

1. The DDoS attack was beyond what we had been assured was a "solid plan of defense". I am not going to give excuses, we certainly needed to be more responsive, and the changes we've made will ensure we do not suffer the same fate again. I can't specifically discuss what we've put in place, all I can say is that the attack continued for a period of time after we made the changes, and it was thwarted.

I don't think anyone should 'forgive us' for what happened. It was a brutal dose of reality. I can't even begin to say what the costs were in man-hours, negative publicity, profit, loss of Vendor base. We are well aware that we can not continue to have our Vendors wake up every morning with the wonder as to whether their store processed sales the night before.

2. Does my putting #s to each point drive people nutso?

3. I think in the coming month we may pop a couple of demo screens up for Vendors to look at. It's all a timing issue really...if there are no bugs, the Techs have more time for the 'frills'.

4. We will no longer allow processing from multiple sites thru 1 account. It is important for us to be able to track where the customers are making the purchase from. We need to ensure each site complies with our restricted/ prohibited products list.

5. In light of #4, you will have the option of purchasing additional licenses at a reduced rate. This will enable you to have a Master/ sub account arrangement. At the same time, we are adding the capability that the Account holder can set up 2ndary logins with restricted access for 'employees'.

6. I am not totally sure which Canadian Banks are eligible for ACH transfers. I know for sure the Royal Bank does. I'll ask the payments people to supply me with a list. Cheques (*been so long since I've typed it this way*) to Canada usually take 4 days, and are free.

7. Verifying the account is a 3 step process. Our Verifications team goes to your website and pokes around. They ensure your site is functional, and that your products are acceptable - usually done within a day. The 2nd step is for you to input the Account Verification number that shows on your CC statement. Not inputting this number will delay any payment, since this number verifies that the CC was yours.

The 3rd step is when the Verifications team verifies orders prior to payment. They contact customers to ensure they received the goods/ services they purchased.


8. Wow, #8 ... gawd I'm long-winded

9. Cards are authorized for payment and funds reserved when the product is ordered by the customer. Until you mark the order as "shipped", the funds are not actually charged to the card, and moved to 2CO.

10. There will be only 1 payment routine with the new Backend. There will be separate modules for different functions but all payment routines will work in the same manner.

11. We have pushed back the Multicurrency function from the initial Sept/ Oct date. We set a window to release the backend. If we couldn't have it released by Mid-Oct, we were not going to disrupt the Xmas buying season by releasing before Xmas. Obviously the DDoS situation had a lot to do with missing the initial date.

12. I am not sure about e-Checks with regards to recurring billings.

13. I can't believe I got to 13 points!!! We will be offering a new payment option in addition to Credit/ Debit Cards and e-Checks for International sales. It will knock your socks off...it is virtually Chargeback free!!! Look for more information on this later this quarter.

Originally posted by TomD

4. We will no longer allow processing from multiple sites thru 1 account. It is important for us to be able to track where the customers are making the purchase from. We need to ensure each site complies with our restricted/ prohibited products list.

5. In light of #4, you will have the option of purchasing additional licenses at a reduced rate. This will enable you to have a Master/ sub account arrangement. At the same time, we are adding the capability that the Account holder can set up 2ndary logins with restricted access for 'employees'.



4. You are scaring me:bawling: This is a HORRIBLE news. Not only I am so :confused:, I am also so :mad: that I feel like :angry: You/2CO......:)

We have put in extreme efforts to do all that integration. So are you telling us that we just wasted our time and money doing all that?

We went with 2CO after making 100% sure that we can integrate our multi-site dating network (no porno etc. just pure and simple dating sites) with "one account" from 2CO. We verified by submitting a support request and 2CO told us ...no problem....we can sure do it.

All charges are going to be made under only "one" name i.e. our corporate site name. Even though there are so many sites that members can use, but payment will only show from our 'corporate site' name that our 2CO account is affiliated with.

Q: Now do you see a problem here? Do we need separate accounts now?

Thanks.

Rick Kumar

Tom,

Thank You for the honest and detailed response to my questions!

Originally posted by TomD
We will no longer allow processing from multiple sites thru 1 account.

This is horrible news. As the hosting market is becoming more saturated many of us are creating multiple sites that target different markets in different ways. Requiring separate accounts for people exercising smart marketing techniques will be an extreme burden. I'm sure it will also break any automation we may have such as WHM or ModernBill.

May I suggest instead that you allow merchants to list the sites from which they will be doing business, have your verification team check them out, and then (once approved) simply reject incoming requests that do not have those sites in their http referrer field. Fast, easy and simple.


In light of #4, you will have the option of purchasing additional licenses at a reduced rate

Sounds more like a cash grab than a security iniative! :angry:

Item 4 may lose you as many customers as DDOS did! Please forward our comments to management

What are you refering to? Why do a vendor need little extra coding?
the extra code is for pricing items on your site in your currency and charging customers in your currency "transparently" rather than the default USD and having to click on the currency flags.

Please, also provide the names of those 'free script' vendors?
check the 2CO forums for multi currency

Does anyone covers re-curring subscriptions/memberships in their scripts?
not that I'm aware of, IIRC recurring doesn't support multi currency (Tom ?)

Originally posted by sightz
Tom,

Thank You for the honest and detailed response to my questions!



This is horrible news. As the hosting market is becoming more saturated many of us are creating multiple sites that target different markets in different ways. Requiring separate accounts for people exercising smart marketing techniques will be an extreme burden. I'm sure it will also break any automation we may have such as WHM or ModernBill.

May I suggest instead that you allow merchants to list the sites from which they will be doing business, have your verification team check them out, and then (once approved) simply reject incoming requests that do not have those sites in their http referrer field. Fast, easy and simple.



Sounds more like a cash grab than a security iniative! :angry:

Item 4 may lose you as many customers as DDOS did! Please forward our comments to management

Agree 100%. 2CO must retract this BOMBSHELL that TomD just dropped before its too late (as this news will travel like wildfire) and has the potential to hurt 2CO business in a big way.

PS. I am thinking of posting a new thread about this shocking news so members (2CO vendors) can convey their feeling to 2CO management together.

Hi,

if I sell my services as designer have I mark orders as "Shipped" ?
When you sell hosting service you mark your orders?

That was really interesting
2. The Verifications Dept. will review your account and call your customers randomly, to verify if your customers are
receiving the products and or services purchased. The determination of the length of time that this process with take, will
be determined on when your customers have received and can verify that they have received their order(s). Once this
information has been noted, payment will be released. Basically the time that the verifications process will take, is
determined on the product being shipped and or downloaded, and the customer verifying that they have received the order.
_
3. Your client will be contacted by the verifications department, in order to verify that your services have been
provided. The confirmation on the services rendered, will determine on contacting your customers.
I can not imagine- 2CO will contact my customers and ask them "Did you receive design from Nat Poitiers?" hmmm.
I always give links to download after payment. But if he/she will say "no, I didn't receive any service from Nat " and he/she already has my sources I lose my money, time and files :(

_

If you sell services and use 2CheckOut, no, you do not have to mark them shipped. I have never marked an item shipped and have not had an issue (hosting was our product).

As for the verification, it happens after you hit the $300 threshold. I actually liked it as it gave our customers the chance to provide feedback. 2CO sends you a copy of the feedback.

Thanks for info, Matt :)

Is anyone using the new 2co interface? I would love to see it.

I am trying to decide between 2co and PS. Thanks.

Jeff

2co has a better & friendlier interface.

Originally posted by universal2001
2co has a better & friendlier interface.
I poked around the 2CO interface ages back, and it looked very basic, and featureless. I know the PS MCC like the back of my hand, and it's much faster and more reliable now, than what it was previously. It's far from perfect, but has served us well for more than 2 years, and continues to serve.

I poked around the 2CO interface ages back, and it looked very basic, and featureless
New one being beta tested now apparently. about to be launched.

--
Dr S

Hi there,

I have used 2CO since few months ago until now all my sales processed with them are arround $6000usd, and i am happy abpout them but i have some comments:

I sent a ticket to 2CO asking them about getting more accounts for my other sites, and they told me they will charge $49 for each account then they will give me $19usd back... that means they are asking for $30usd only per new account, That was nice and interesting for me but the bad thing here is that they will not gather all my funds from my sub accounts and send them at once to me to bank... they will wait until the funds of each account reach its limit then they will free my funds. this is not good things, they should gather all funds from all accounts and send them one time.

the second funny things that my credit card was acceptable by 2CO, and now i tried to use it to purchase those extra account and it tells me that credit card number is invalid because of honer! that is also not good thing because i have used the same CC to purchase many things from other sites that use 2CO and now they don't accept my CC... may be they prevent all CC's come from arabic countries because i am from Syrian Arab Republic.

the good things in 2CO that they admit thier faults, one time they did a wrong transfer to a wrong bank, thus they have to send the funds again to my correct bank, and they charge the sending fees two times, but when i contact them they apology and refund one of sending fees, i liked this from them.

sorry about my bad english, it is my second language.

Anas Kurdy
Syrian Arab Republic

Originally posted by anaskurdy
Hi there,

I have used 2CO since few months ago until now all my sales processed with them are arround $6000usd, and i am happy abpout them but i have some comments:

I sent a ticket to 2CO asking them about getting more accounts for my other sites, and they told me they will charge $49 for each account then they will give me $19usd back... that means they are asking for $30usd only per new account, That was nice and interesting for me but the bad thing here is that they will not gather all my funds from my sub accounts and send them at once to me to bank... they will wait until the funds of each account reach its limit then they will free my funds. this is not good things, they should gather all funds from all accounts and send them one time.

the second funny things that my credit card was acceptable by 2CO, and now i tried to use it to purchase those extra account and it tells me that credit card number is invalid because of honer! that is also not good thing because i have used the same CC to purchase many things from other sites that use 2CO and now they don't accept my CC... may be they prevent all CC's come from arabic countries because i am from Syrian Arab Republic.

the good things in 2CO that they admit thier faults, one time they did a wrong transfer to a wrong bank, thus they have to send the funds again to my correct bank, and they charge the sending fees two times, but when i contact them they apology and refund one of sending fees, i liked this from them.


Submit a ticket with all account numbers, and request a combined payment and it will be done. We perform this service all the time, for hundreds of accounts.

Syrian CCs are not disabled. The 'do not honor' code is what is being returned from the payment gateway/ your issuing bank. Sometimes these blocks are simply because of using your card for a number of internet purchases, and your bank wants to assure themselves that you are making the purchase.

If you prefer, you can use your current account to pay the setup fee for additional accounts. Contact risk@2co.com to make this request.

Thank you very much Tom, your information here is really helpful, and i will go try this.

Thanks again

Tom!

I sent the email to risk@2co.com but i got this back:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

risk@2co.com

OOPS.....I hadn't set up that email as "2co" it is still "2checkout"

Please try again
risk@2checkout.com

my apologies

TomD (or anyone else):

I am new to 2CO and am using their V2 interface. I read in the FAQ and in this thread that you have to mark an item "shipped" before the CC is charged and funds are released.

I opened a ticket and the person responding told me to just click to say the item's shipped. But here's the problem... the order doesn't show up as an "Unshipped" item and there's no where to click to show it shipped.

I use the 2CO gateway, not their shopping cart.

When I click "To find a sale: Search," and click "All Unshipped Items," the order doesn't show up. But when I click "Find Sale" and list all sales, the order shows up as Approved, Not Yet Paid, Not Yet Shipped.

There are plenty of links to issue refunds, but no link to mark the order shipped. The customer's order has shipped AND arrived! So I need be be sure 2CO will properly charge their card.

Please Help!

PS, please tell me I won't have to go through some complicated process for every single order just because I don't use the 2CO shopping cart!

I signed up at mypaysystem 10 days ago (and i have payd 49$...) and i am still waiting for the account password....

I wrote an email for help, but i did not receive ANY reply from them.

How can i call this kind of business ?

That's the way it is with PS :-( Do a search. Ask for your money back

--
Dr S

Originally posted by jvds
I've always found 2CO to be a more personal company and they do seem to actually care about clients. Paysystems has never replied to any support tickets I've raised

Rus

Strongly agree ! :)

Valterra,

Please email me directly with your inquiry if you haven't received a response from our Tech Dept by this time.

kristin@2checkout.com


And thanks for those positive words!

<<<signatures are setup in profile>>>

Please use the vendors support channels to receive support from them. Support issues should not be handled in the forum.

I signed up recently with 2Checkout.com and I have quite a bit of information to report about their new V2 upgraded system (all new merchants are required to use the V2 upgraded system at 2CO). Let me tell you what Tom won't tell you...

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I was trying to decide on whether to get my own merchant account or not, and then I saw 2Checkout.com and it looked very enticing for a 3rd party processor, so I decided to give it a try.

I first sent an email to ask a pre-sign up question, and I received no reply ever (this was the first "red flag" that I noticed)... But I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt, and a week later I signed up with 2Checkout.com (even though they never replied).

The Sign up process was quick and easy, and the new control panel looks very user friendly, so I was impressed with 2CO at first.

The next "red flag" came when I had to phone them about problems logging in (I could not log-in to submit a trouble ticket)... Anyway, their customer service lady told me that the only person who knew how to reset a password was the "manager", and then she told me that the manager had left and went home early for the day (4pm EST), and she told me that nothing could be done until tomorrow.

It's a very minor issue, but I was amazed that such a SIMPLE request could not be solved until the next day (when this single "manager" was present)...

I was shocked that a company with 30,000+ merchants has only one person who knows how to "reset" a password, but I was even MORE shocked that they would ADMIT this fact to me over the phone -- they should have at least TRIED to make it seem like they were a large firm with many employees;)

What if 100 people had password problems? How long would they take to fix that issue, days? I mean, what if their manager is on vacation? :)

Moving along in this story....

The third "red flag" happened when I clicked on the "help" section of the Admin Panel to access the USERS GUIDE for the new V2 control panel.

Anyway, the USERS GUIDE has about 80-100 links on it, but when I tried to click on each link I received 404 "error pages" for 90% of the pages. Even today, 90% of the USERS GUIDE is MISSING and there is nothing but 404 error pages. *Keep in mind that the USERS GUIDE is absolutely NECESSARY to learn about the account options for new merchants.

This was not nearly the worst of it...

The final "red flag" that I noticed was beyond imaginable, it was so severe that I am now most likely going to have to get my own merchant account elsewhere.

....Anyway, the final "red flag" happened when I saw that the new V2 purchase script (which handles "live" credit card authorizations) terminates early when the "cart_order_id" parameter is passed into the order form (which is necessary for many merchants).

When this parameter is used then the script refuses to "redirect" buyers to ANY page whatsoever, and the script does not even display a LINK to any pages either. Literally, the buyer is left staring at a RECEIPT page with NO LINKS ON IT whatsoever when the "cart_order_id" parameter is used in the new V2 script.

This makes selling digital products nearly impossible, unless you want angry customers or confused customers who have nothing to click on and who are not redirected anyplace.

I have also confirmed that many other 2CO merchants using the new "V2 script" are experiencing this same problem, and their trouble tickets were ignored. My trouble tickets were also ignored, by the way.

In fact, the tech support staff at 2CO told me that the reason there was no "redirect" (after the sale) is because I did not have the "APPROVED URL" option setup in my control panel (which of course was wrong)...

***They told me this even though I DID have the "Approved URL" properly setup in my control panel -- the tech support just "assumed" that I didn't have that option setup and told me that was the cause of the "redirect" problem (and they closed my trouble ticket, even though the problem was never solved).

In other words, the tech support staff did not even bother to actually INVESTIGATE this setting in my account before replying to my trouble ticket, which means the tech support staff is just trained to give "canned" answers to each question without investigating the specific problem (sort of like a "LIVE" staff to hand out canned FAQ's).

Anyway, I then re-opened my trouble ticket explaining that my "Approved URL" was properly setup (and it points to a functioning script), and therefore that was NOT the problem which is preventing my buyers from being properly "redirected" after the sale is approved.

After that they just ignored my trouble ticket, even though I cannot process sales until it is fixed (good thing I have another week before I am going "live"). What if I needed to go "live" today? I'd be out of luck...

Another "red flag" that I noticed happened when I phoned their office... ...The customer service operator told me:

"We just converted to the new V2 system so there are lots of bugs we are trying to work out still, we hope to work out the bugs soon but it will probably take some time"....

I was shocked that they would actually admit that their new LIVE ordering system is basically a BETA system which is KNOWINGLY full of bugs still... I thought they would at least "pretend" to be in control of the situation;) What a confidence "breaker" that was to hear 2CO admit this over the phone (because just 2 weeks ago I thought that 2CO was a big firm with a huge staff of programmers to work out every last problem -- I had no idea that they were operating on a skeleton crew and BETA TESTING a LIVE PAYMENT SCRIPT with real merchants to serve as guinea pigs.
...Just imagine if VISA phoned 2Checkout.com and said something like this:

"We're having problems with lots of bugs and we'll try to fix them within a few months, but until then your business will be OFF AND ON -- sorry for the inconvenience and have a wonderful day"...
How would 2Checkout.com react to that type of a statement from VISA? I don't think that 2CO really appreciates the fact that each merchant's business is very important to each merchant (2CO sees it's own interests as the only ones that matter).

On top of all this, if a new merchant tries to use the old purchase script (the one that works great still) the payment system REFUSES to process the transaction -- since all new merchants are FORCED to use the new BETA script which is full of bugs and does not "redirect" buyers properly when the "cart_order_id" parameter is used.

Anyway, I am not mad since I'm actually glad that I found out all of this information about 2CO "before" we went LIVE and became dependent on their gateway for processing orders. I still have a week and I'll probably just get my own merchant account to avoid this hassle, or find another 3rd party processor which is not so disorganized and running on such a skeleton crew.

And it's memorial day weekend so they have no staff to fix ANY issues for 3 full days...

I phoned and their whole staff is gone, which is unusual for a credit card processor because most businesses do many sales on weekends and holiday weekends.

So if you use 2CO and a problem happens during a weekend then I guess your ability to accept credit cards must "wait" until a business day. *Any other merchant provider has staff working 24/7 to fix any technical problems with a merchant's account, I have never heard of a credit card processing firm that only has accessible staff during normal business hours.

I guess that's why the DDOS attack last year took so long to fix, because they have no staff working except during normal business hours each day -- after 5pm there is nobody there to fix technical problems.

I am posting not because I am mad at 2CO, I'm posting because it's important for others to know what the new V2 system is like with 2CO (most people here probably are still using the older V1 system and thus don't have any of these problems).

Below is the new V2 payment script which is causing the problem, it's a problem which only shows up after the sale is processed using the "cart_order_id" parameter.

www2.2checkout.com/2co/buyer/purchase

(for those who think I am exaggerating events or making things up, I can only say that I reported exactly what happened. In fact, I probably was a bit lenient and left out a few other problems with their new V2 BETA system which is being used as a LIVE payment system).

well thanks for that comment.

Im looking for a 3rd p cc processor, first i thought of paysystems then i was let down. And now this about 2co, meaning the sales will be not possible? as it wont redirect them. So unprofessional.