My oldest daughter just turned 12 in November and she's in the sixth grade. Because school has slowed down so much this week, yesterday the (public) school she attends decided to show classes (commercial) movies on DVD rather than have them do any "real" work.

Putting aside the violation of showing a commercial DVD publicly, here's the deal:

They showed my 12-year-old an "R" rated movie, without my permission ("The Patriot" starring Mel Gibson). I don't allow my children to see anything over a PG-13 (with myself or wife present). PG and under is okay without us being around. They also showed her class a second movie, PG-13 rated, "Drumline".

My wife wants to raise a big stink at the school. I don't, because I don't think any other parents have complained and I don't want my daughter singled out because we caused a ruckus.

What would YOU do?

WOW! the patriot has some real gore!

I think you can publicly show movies...just not charge for them.

I'm still shocked that they showed THAT movie to that age range.

I can see wanting to raise a stink about it...but other than an apology there isn't much that is going to happen by bringing it to their attention IMO.

I would likely write a letter to the principle and the school board director, but word it professionally in a form of protest...

Now excuse me while I watch Texas Chainsaw massacre with my 4 year old.

The kids have evolved into adults before they turn into teens lol In my days we never had movies in school. Maybe some Charlie Chaplin or Laurel and Hardy movie on a noisy old projector once in a blue moon.

I came across an article in the local daily about 20% of school kids having mobile phone in school campus. Most schools have decided to make them deposit the phones at the security gate and take them back after school.

pokerstore:

Thanks. Also, you can't show a DVD or VHS video legally in public without paying a license fee. Here's a link that explains it in plain english...

http://www.haverford.edu/av/copyright/pubperform.html

Man, what has America come to. Can't even show rented movies in classrooms anymore. That sucks.

Anyway, whoever showed the Rated R movie without permission from the parents is going to get into a lot of trouble.

You can mass-mail an anonymous letter to the school staff and parents. Or set up an online petition anoymously where they can sign and or discuss the issue.

Sitting idle while the system that is supposed to educate your child has them packed in a room to watch "R" rated movies is not the thing to do.

It is a sorry statement about the US when the very basic principals this country was founded on are banned from our childs education. ( and I do trust in God myself) And then they turn around and show them content that has been deemed "Unacceptable for anyone under 17"

At 12 I am guessing this is about the 7th Grade and If the school had shown our child an "R" rated movie I would have a fit.
Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or any other conservative talk show host would proabably come to your aid :D

I think "Unacceptable for anyone under 17" is rated NC-17. :D

Originally posted by hycloud
I think "Unacceptable for anyone under 17" is rated NC-17. :D MPA Ratings (http://www.mpaa.org/movieratings/)
Requires Adult

I would describe what I felt was an error in judgement on the part of the teacher. I would not make more of an issue, primarily out of thought for your daughter. If it became a huge issue, then she likely would have to deal with a lot from other students. However, letting it go with no response troubles me as well. That is why I would give the principal a chance to respond appropriately.

Overall my feelings:

Inappropriate-lapse in judgement by teacher. Should not have been done.

However, was it anything that would shock or horrify or cause serious damage to your 12 year old daughter? Probably not. However, something to discuss with her.

Does it merit some complaint? Yes.

Does it merit turning it into a major issue? No.

Hey HP,

Although I was never governed by my parents in regards to what I was ever allowed to watch or play in terms of movies, tv, games, etc, I can highly respect your guidelines as a parent.

I currently have a younger brother who my mother (her 5th child) absolutely drives the school nuts about. She causes a stink whenever something inappropriate happens within the confines of the school. Why does she do this you ask? Obviously it's not to make my younger brother more liked... you obviously know that if anything teachers might treat him a little worse, but it's rather for other children as well.

Basically what I'm trying to get at here is my mother drives the school nuts, but the entire school benefits from her rantings... Parents look at her as a bitch that always has something to complain about, yet their kids are the ones benefitting from not being left outside unwatched, or being allowed to have a glass of water when needed, etc.

If I was in your shoes, I'd definately act on this situation. I can guarantee that most parents probably have absolutely no clue an R rated film was shown in the classroom. By writing a letter to the teacher, principal and school board, you might cause a little bit of a problem for everyone, but you can bet you'll likely be the last parents upset regarding a matter like this.

Anyways, I hope that made a little bit of sense ;)

I guess im an outcast :)

I would call the teacher and ask him/her to explain themself concerning the incident. If they give lip, go to the principle, if same thing happens, go to the board. Then if nothing, write the local papers, as well as make this national. We shouldn't have to put up with crap from any school system.

"The kids have evolved into adults before they turn into teens lol "


I'm sure 99% of the kids didn't see/hear anything in the film they hadn't encountered before, but it doesn't change the fact that they should not take the right away from the parent to monitor what their own children watch.

Originally posted by pokerstore
"The kids have evolved into adults before they turn into teens lol "


I'm sure 99% of the kids didn't see/hear anything in the film they hadn't encountered before, but it doesn't change the fact that they should not take the right away from the parent to monitor what their own children watch.

EXACTLY! Parents do not and will not accept a school showing their kids materials that go against their guidelines as a parent.

Ok, I spoke to my mother, currently a teacher for the same school system for well over 30 years now (soon to retire). She tells me this: if I complain about this, there's a strong chance that based on current strict district policy the teacher in question will likely be fired.

Should I temper my position based on the fact that my complaint might lead to the teacher losing his/her job? In other words, is the potential damage my daughter may have suffered (exposure to movie violence) worth someone's job?

blackmail the teacher for 10% of their monthly salary for life or you'll drop a dime on their little "theatre" :)

j/k.

It's a tough call. It really is. I could very well see a teacher losing their job over this...

I am not sure what is more troubling, showing a R rated movie without consulting parents, or showing the movie because they run out of things to learn.

Eather way you have to do something. I would directly approach teacher, rather then go over his/her head

Originally posted by sasha
Eather way you have to do something. I would directly approach teacher, rather then go over his/her head

Second that, give the teacher a chance to explain her/his side of the story.

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Ok, I spoke to my mother, currently a teacher for the same school system for well over 30 years now (soon to retire). She tells me this: if I complain about this, there's a strong chance that based on current strict district policy the teacher in question will likely be fired.

Should I temper my position based on the fact that my complaint might lead to the teacher losing his/her job? In other words, is the potential damage my daughter may have suffered (exposure to movie violence) worth someone's job? You need to consider the history and competence of the teacher. If the teacher seems to merit another chance, I would temper my action. If you find this is consistent with other problems, then not.

"or showing the movie because they run out of things to learn."


just playing devil's advocate here (I in no way agree with showing the film as you can see from my previous comments)


but there is no way on earth you're going to get kids to retain anything you teach them on the last day before holidays...might as well have some form of activity to at least keep them from gnawing at the furniture.


but, hey, play some learning games or have a debate or something...

Yes, I agree to talk directly to the teacher and say "I know what you did... do you?"

I, myself, don't believe the movie would do any harm to your daughter, but that's not for me to decide. That being said, I don't think it would be fair to put her teacher out of a job for the holiday season.

Originally posted by 1GigHost
MPA Ratings (http://www.mpaa.org/movieratings/)
Requires Adult

Rated R - Under 17 Requires Accompanying Parent or Adult Guardian.

But that's not the point. In public schools, the teacher must get permission from the parents before they are allowed to show Rated R movies to students. If they don't, they can be fired.

Wow, firing!? Little more strict in your neck of the woods for sure. I retract my last suggestion to write letters and would also just speak with the teacher.

Mekhu:

Each situation is different, I'm sure. However, my mom tells me that at my mother's own school a teacher "resigned" under similar circumstances -- that's how she's pretty certain of how big a deal this would be.

Of course -- and this is true -- a gay male teacher at the same school was caught by a sheriff's deputy while having sex with another man in the woods adjacent to the school grounds and he's still got HIS job, so...

There are two questions to answer that will determine the appropriate approach.

1) How would you like this handled if it were you who had shown the movie (i.e. if you were the teacher, how do you think you would like this handled)? a) get the teacher fired, b) come in and calmly discuss the situation to find the teacher's point of view, c) some combination of pationate resolve and logical reason.

2) What do you hope to accomplish?

If you only want to yell, then save your breath or yell into a pillow. I think the board would have a hard time firing this teacher over this instance (if it is not related to some chain of judgement lapses).

In your child's life, is this going to be a defining moment or simply a movie that she watched? It's easy to get all fired up because it's your kid but you need to remember that whatever action you take here, because presumably you and your wife have had a discussion about it in an excited tone, will probably have more of an impact on your daughter than the movie ever will. If you do the right thing with a cool and collected mind, you can turn this into a learning experience for your child that will take them way further than any screaming match ever will.


Best of luck finding the right path. You'll get it done. Just remember, you were given two ears and only one mouth ;)

report the teacher, and the school to the school board, that's illegal, and seeing that type of movie could scar your children for life.

I mean... what would you do if you were 13 years old, and saw a guy's head get blown off ?

Go to the school without your kid, and not during school hours, there is no reason why the kids should get involved, or even have to know. Once you get up to the school, demand to talk to the principal, if the principal doesn't do anything, goto the school board, if they do nothing, go to whatever the next authority is.

Hell, you might be able to get some money out of this, threaten to sue because that movie has scared your children's minds for life.


BTW, one more question, is the teacher a male, or a female?

I believe a women would be more intent on watching an R rated movie staring mel gibson, because she believes he is a role model, and the perfect man.


good luck :)


ub3r

I think approaching the teacher personally about the situtation. If the this teacher as shown good teaching skills in the past it his/her firing would be a loss to the school. Good teachers are hard to find.

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Ok, I spoke to my mother, currently a teacher for the same school system for well over 30 years now (soon to retire). She tells me this: if I complain about this, there's a strong chance that based on current strict district policy the teacher in question will likely be fired.

Should I temper my position based on the fact that my complaint might lead to the teacher losing his/her job? In other words, is the potential damage my daughter may have suffered (exposure to movie violence) worth someone's job? I am sorry buy my sympathy went out the window the day I became a parent. My childs well being comes first. I would probably think about this and then take a course of action that I could sleep with. For me that would be a visit to the school in person to meet with the principal , the teacher and an impartial witness.

Well, I haven't read every post in full, but being 15, I can comment with a different view --

Firstly, your daughter probably knows everything that's happened in that movie. We had to get a slip signed to see Twister in school, and quoting my science teacher, 'You guys should have to get forms to talk in the hallways, not to see a movie!'

Secondly, I know from my view, that a parent complaining to a teacher, and eventually causing a stirrup, would be embarrassing. What's more important, your daughters social life, or a movie with things shes seen before?

Personally I think that it isn't worth going in over, but it's still your call.

What is the purpose of sheltering a kid from a realistic film? As a matter of fact back in those days that was a reality kids that age knew and grew up with. Its not like its encouraging the activities in the film. And its not like the film rating on all films are accurate and fair to the creators.

Don't get me wrong it might not be something to show a 3 year old because at that age a child might mimic what he/she sees but once a child is in their teens they have a firm grasp of what is "wrong and right" and "fake or real".

Life is hard and there is no point in trying to hide it from her. At least when she finds that out on her own, and adventually she will, she wont be disappointed.

It's not sheltering her from a realistic film, but rather that it should be the parent's decision as to which realistic films their children should be exposed to.

I may have let her watch "The Patriot" at home -- but I'd be with her to discuss it with her if she had any questions about the violence or other mature issues that come up in the film.

Heck, I let her play "Grand Theft Auto" on the PS2 because she has no problem distinguishing between cartoon violence or video game violence and the consequences of REAL LIFE violence, but I'm right there to make sure she doesn't pull over and pick up a working girl...

Originally posted by hostpath.com
but I'm right there to make sure she doesn't pull over and pick up a working girl...

Funny :)

Heck, I let her play "Grand Theft Auto" on the PS2 because she has no problem distinguishing between cartoon violence or video game violence and the consequences of REAL LIFE violence, but I'm right there to make sure she doesn't pull over and pick up a working girl...

And that's exactly what you should be relaying to the teacher. The fact is that the teacher can't "unshow" the movie, that's done, so IMHO the appropriate action is to get all the facts first.

Is there a possibility that the teacher sent home notes and that your signature was forged? It's easy to say "my kid would never do that" but....a gaggle of kids in a shool hallway can conspire to do strange things.

You could also make any of the points in this thread about a teacher showing a movie which was not cirriculum-approved material - regardless of the appropriateness for the age group. If you don't like Twinkie the Elf and you don't think it's appropriate for your child and it isn't on the "official list"...

My wife, who is friendly with the school secretary, just told me that in speaking casually to her about the issue (when picking up my daughter after school today) the secretary said some other parents had already complained.

I may not need to take any action, if that's the case.

Are you sure it was the Rated R version? Generally schools have versions of R movies that have the gore removed.

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Ok, I spoke to my mother, currently a teacher for the same school system for well over 30 years now (soon to retire). She tells me this: if I complain about this, there's a strong chance that based on current strict district policy the teacher in question will likely be fired.

Should I temper my position based on the fact that my complaint might lead to the teacher losing his/her job? In other words, is the potential damage my daughter may have suffered (exposure to movie violence) worth someone's job?

I am curious as to why this is even a question that you have to ask. In other threads you seem to strong about uploading the law and not breaking it. Here someone has broken a law right in front of you and you are asking what to do?

If I was in your position(as a father) I would be more concerned about what the teacher could POTENTIALLY show the minors in the future. This time she showed The Patriot...let's say few months from now she shows another movie rated worse and *really* angers you. In that case when you go to the school board or any authority, your case will be weaker because you ignored the first instance of the teacher showing haywire movies.

I honestly think you should at least take out some time to find out more about the teacher, her experience and some more background.

Telling about our school system here, I recall few months ago we were *required* to get a note signed to watch the documentary Bowling for Columbine, on which we went on to write an in-class essay.

But there are other teachers at our school who could not care less. Being a senior class in high school, though, it could hardly matter less:)

In case of your daughter, for her level I think this is a gravely different situation which actually requires some digging-in, to say the least.

Originally posted by Trifolic
I am curious as to why this is even a question that you have to ask. In other threads you seem to strong about uploading the law and not breaking it. Here someone has broken a law right in front of you and you are asking what to do?

I think the concern of the poster of this thread is well-founded in that dealing with educational institutions to which your child attends has very fine boundries.

Quoting hostpath's original post:
My wife wants to raise a big stink at the school. I don't, because I don't think any other parents have complained and I don't want my daughter singled out because we caused a ruckus.

This is still a very hard decision for me to make put in the same position and to be honest, as much anguish as the news of something like this happening at a minor school will bring me, I will have to give A LOT of thought before deciding either way: whether to pursue something with the board of education or let it fly...either decision will be tough.

So to put things in perspective(at least to attempt to,) I think the original poster knows fully-well the illegality of this but not everything is worth pursuing when put side by side with possible consequences as a result of it. He is just seeking some pointers and thoughts like anyone else on this board.

First, I don't think any laws were broken here (except perhaps copyright). R rating means "parent or other guardian must be present" -- teachers are, legally, in loco parentis, so as long as the teacher didn't leave the room, there isn't a problem.

Second, "children" will not be permanently damaged by watching movies. The whole rating system is crazy -- 16 year olds can join the army and be trained to kill people, but they can't watch realistic depictions of... err... people being killed. I watched "The Fly" (R rated) when I was about ten; I thought it was a bad movie based on an even worse premise, but I wasn't permanently scarred by it.

If you really think this is a problem, talk to the teacher about it. But talk to your daughter first, and find out if it troubled her at all. I'm sure the last thing you want is to make your daughter resent the control you have over her life, and the easiest way to create that sort of resentment is to make a big deal about her seeing (or doing) something which she "isn't supposed to see" (or do).

Talk to the teacher, start at the bottom, get their side of things, heck for all you know your kid was given a permission slip to get signed and forged it (I was guilty of this quite often in school, from the 4th grade on I don't think my parents signed nothing). If the outcome of that chat isn't satisfactory then escalate it.

err

Originally posted by Dixiesys
I was guilty of this quite often in school, from the 4th grade on I don't think my parents signed nothing).

LOL, and the tradition continues:D

You'd think they'd come up with a better way than "signatures" which has a half-life of 24 hours.

Originally posted by zaid2001
LOL, and the tradition continues:D

You'd think they'd come up with a better way than "signatures" which has a half-life of 24 hours.

Lotsa times it was necessity, my parents were awful procrastinators on signing crap, and getting them to GO to the school for something was like you just asked them to stab themselves in the eye for all the pain it seemed to cause them to have to go to my school for something. By the 4th grade I'd learned to just sign the crap myself and hand it back whatever it was.

When my son gets old enough for school the teacher will be under strict orders to call me or email me anything she needs as sending papers home is like asking the kid to learn how to make my signature. But I can't wait for when I can go to his school and take part in his education. Guess sometimes you learn by bad example.

I must agree with most of you on this issue. A rated "R" movie should not be shown with out parent permission. But the Patriot is an exception. It there is a lot of educational value in it. And I would totaly agree not to make a rukus out of this. That will kill your girls reputation bigtime!

Originally posted by Radix
What is the purpose of sheltering a kid from a realistic film? As a matter of fact back in those days that was a reality kids that age knew and grew up with. Its not like its encouraging the activities in the film. And its not like the film rating on all films are accurate and fair to the creators.

Don't get me wrong it might not be something to show a 3 year old because at that age a child might mimic what he/she sees but once a child is in their teens they have a firm grasp of what is "wrong and right" and "fake or real".

Life is hard and there is no point in trying to hide it from her. At least when she finds that out on her own, and adventually she will, she wont be disappointed. Is easy to tell whom has kids and who does not. I am 44, 3 kids 1 grandkid and in business most of my life. No one is taking this choice from me. If I want my PRE TEEN viewing R rated movies, well I will show them myself.

'Off to school now JR, your economics class is showing films on how to be a hooker today'

No one is taking this choice from me. If I want my PRE TEEN viewing R rated movies, well I will show them myself.


Exactly. When my son was a pre-teen, I occasionally let him see PG-13 and R films after I had already seen them and determined if they were appropriate for him. It's my decision, not the teacher's.

The educational system has gone down the toilet in America, complaining will most likely not get you to far. However on the issue of principle you should do it. Don't let the dumbed down school system think they have carte blanche, speak out to them and make sure it never happens again.

I misunderstood your point. It's not really the content of the movie but your inability to select the movie and be there?

Well for one thing its important to remember that a teacher is there to teach which is to benefit your child not to expose her. So taking some kind of formal action against the teacher would be ridiculous. I know other schools usually send home permission slips for individual movies or a slip with all of the movies going to be seen that year and ask them to be signed. Kindly ask the teacher to do that and if he/she doesn't comply then take a more formal action. That wont single out your daughter and everyone goes home happy.

But personally, I think its a great movie appropriate even for a 12 year old and certainly more appropriate than GTA. No harm will be done to your child from one mistake. That teacher surely has a degree and is capable of answering any questions your child has. You have the right to confront him/her but just because you have the right to do something, doesn't make it right to do so. Afterall, its your daughter you should care more about not your lost ability to hand select the movies she sees.