I don't frequent this forum much anymore, and won't be in the future, but I have come here to post this as a warning to the good people of this community, so you don't have to end up like I did.

This post may get pretty long, so you may want to grab some popcorn and a soda before you start.

This starts back in March, when I was having a server issue. Steven was referred to me by a customer of mine, and he offered to fix the issue. One discussion led to another, and eventually we got on the topic of partnering the companies together. So we did the merge, I got access, canceled my servers, etc. Everything seemed to be going fine until about August.

We were re-selling a dedicated server that we had bought, but had not use for. I was paying for the server, and the customer was paying to the company PayPal account, under Steven. For the first few months (from March until August I believe,) Steven had been fine relaying the money from the customer over to me. In Augst, I was transfering over to a new, verified PayPal account (so I was able to withdraw more than the $500 limit per month,) so I told Steven to hold onto the server payment until later that month.

Steven had some 'company issues' with his design company (not sure if the threads are still here, but search for tierpix and rackmounts etc.) He told me he would have to wait a bit before he could send me the payment. Ok, fine, no big deal. Meanwhile, I hadn't gotten a dime profit from the company, and had put in countless hours of work, sometimes covering his back when he would randomly dissapear for a week.

September comes, the server bills again. We were having trouble getting the customer to pay, but eventually he does. Steven finds another excuse to delay the money, I'm not quite sure what it was.

October comes, meanwhile I'm asking him constanly for my money, and he gives a new excuse or "tomorrow", "next week" every time. Finally I find it getting out of hand, so I ask him for his account over with the server company, so I could have it transfered over to him and his credit card. He would keep changing the subject, or delaying the information. I never got it, and November came along.

The customer did not pay for November, and of course I did not get the money. So now its a total of $800 that I am owed from Steven.

We haven't even gotten to the good part yet.

Meanwhile, while all of this is happening, I'm putting together a Gameserver section for NetStartz. I had run my own gameserver company earlier that year, but closed it down in about July. Countless hours were spent getting this section up an running. Let me take you to about 3 weeks ago. Steven signs off one night, and I don't see him for a week. I'm here, without proper knowledge of managing a server, trying to handle the business while he is gone. His phones were disconnected, he wasn't responding to pages. I thought either he ditched me in the cold, or something happened to him. He finally shows up a few days after. He had a 'family emergency' and had to loan out money, or pay someone's morgage or something.

I give him the deal, that I want the money, and pay from the company. He of course makes another excuse and starts pushing me off. I start threating him with me leaving the company (I would take with me the modernbill, drams, and exocontrol licenses, which he is using of mine - still using I believe.) He had finally told me he mailed a money order. Great! Of course, as I expected, it didn't show up. He got it back in the mail saying 'no such address'. He confirmed the address with me, and it was the right one. I get countless pieces of mail a day, so obviously that was a lie.

Last week, he did one of his 'dissapearing acts' again. He comes back on Saturday (this past one), and all I get is ignored. He wouldn't respond to IMs, PMs, emails, phone calls, or anything. I FINALLY get him to talk to me, and he says that he's busy with customers, blah, blah. He'd mail the money to me Monday, but he'd rather drop it off (he lives about 40 minutes from me.) I don't want a stranger coming to my house, so I told him to throw it in the mail. Of course that never came. Throughout last week, I noticed the root passwords of our servers changing, my access in our IRC channel (main place for gaming server division) deleted, more ignoring, and attitude from new staff that he had hired.

He goes to tell me in a conversation that 'I was lazy, and did no work for the comapny at all since March, and he was planning to let me go'. At this point I'm fed up, and really it didn't matter to me if I left the company, I just wanted my money. Every conversation we would have, would end when I ask for the money, and then he'd go back to ignoring me.

So here I am today, sitting here, banned from everything related to NetStartz, down $800, and a lot of work put into a company. I am in contact with a lawyer, and am looking at my legal options in this matter.

My point of this post is not to cause a negative stir against NetStartz, or Steven, it is to encourage him to admit that he was wrong, pay me the money he owes me, and to make the public aware of his potential scams.

A few side notes:
-A friend of mine bought a shoutcast server from NetStartz about a month ago (paid for 3 months upfront, $300 or so I believe), he got his server, but it was unusable, as the load on the server it was on (mars) was out of control, and the shoutcast server would crash almost every day. He made Steven well aware of this, and all Steven did was what he would do to me, brush him off. My friend went on to purchase a server from another company, and is happy with that one. He still has yet to see a refund from Steven, after being promised it many times (more empty promises from Steven).
-A quote from Steven: "everything i know every drop that i know about this biz i know from you...and would be an *** if i just took that and ran, :-O - will im ya asap". I never got that IM.

I will keep you guys updated on what happens with this situation in the future. I appreciate you taking the time to read this post, and inform yourself of what went on.

(I do wonder whether the word "company" will ever regain its original meaning)

All I can say is wow.

The guy lives 40 mins away from you. Go and sort it out. Heck, it's just not that scarey out there mate! :)

It's one thing to post on a public forum about personal/business greviances, but you're talking about someone who has owed you money for 4 months, who is now ignoring you online and offline, and he lives around the corner?

I don't know what advice I could give you other than open your front door. :)

Gary

Does anybody conduct private business in private any longer?

This is the internet Techark. Privacy no longer exists.
We are in the world of Jerry Springer and Oprah and Judge Judy.
There's no such thing as a private issue or a handshake deal anymore.
If someone has done you wrong, tell the world. They are all just waiting on the edge of their seats to hear your story.

Originally posted by Techark
Does anybody conduct private business in private any longer?

People once conducted business in private?? :eek:

It's tempting to bring things out to the public to try to force an issue though. WHT is a big megaphone in that manner...

-David

Doesn't look like it, Techark. Oh, speaking of business, you owe me a whopping $0.00 cents for posting the comment. Shall we handle it publicly, or privately?

All kidding aside, as Gary said, you're only 40 minutes away, go meet him and get this settled, or hand it over to your lawyers. As this is a business dealing, it should be handled privately. Any lawyer would also advise you NOT to publicize any details about your private transactions...

40 minutes away? Now I might be jumping to conclusions but 40 minutes away in a car would be like several hours on a bicycle. And well, ok, to jump to conclusions I'm doubting if any of these parties are old enough to drive? And if they ARE I'd be really surprised to find that either is old enough to legally drink a beer :D

Originally posted by Dixiesys
40 minutes away? Now I might be jumping to conclusions but 40 minutes away in a car would be like several hours on a bicycle. And well, ok, to jump to conclusions I'm doubting if any of these parties are old enough to drive? And if they ARE I'd be really surprised to find that either is old enough to legally drink a beer :D

I am not legally old enough to drive, no. Steven is though, he is 20.

Originally posted by Dixiesys
40 minutes away? Now I might be jumping to conclusions but 40 minutes away in a car would be like several hours on a bicycle. And well, ok, to jump to conclusions I'm doubting if any of these parties are old enough to drive? And if they ARE I'd be really surprised to find that either is old enough to legally drink a beer :D

Good point Gary.

Three hours at the most, by bicycle, for the novice rider. Another fine useless factoid by someone that should have been in bed. ::chuckles::

To air dirty laundry in public only results on one thing...dirty laundry covered with bird poo.

Either...Resolve it...or....Get over it.

Originally posted by nS-Steve
I am not legally old enough to drive, no. Steven is though, he is 20.

And I was right, I can't buy either of you a beer :D

Here's the reality of the world, get it in writing if there is any real money involved.

Originally posted by nS-Steve
I am not legally old enough to drive, no. Steven is though, he is 20.

So, in the space of nine months you have:

- developed a web server issue
- had one of your customers refer someone to you to fix it
- transacted a "merger" with that someone and lost $800 to them
- are now consulting a lawyer to see what your options are

...but you haven't driven a car yet?!?! (at least, not legally...circle work in a paddock not counted :)).

Seriously...to me, your loss (and fear of meeting someone in person that you have been doing some sort of business with for months) is highlighted moreso by the fact that you shouldn't even be in this situation yet...nowhere near it.

Gary

Originally posted by Dixiesys
40 minutes away? Now I might be jumping to conclusions but 40 minutes away in a car would be like several hours on a bicycle. And well, ok, to jump to conclusions I'm doubting if any of these parties are old enough to drive? And if they ARE I'd be really surprised to find that either is old enough to legally drink a beer :D
heh. I was going to suggest meeting at a pub and shooting a few games of pool over some cold ones. :D

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
heh. I was going to suggest meeting at a pub and shooting a few games of pool over some cold ones. :D

Winner drinks a shot! After a few games regardless of how much better one is than the other you'll find the match even :D (I'm a horrible pool player so this is about the only way I win, get my opponent soused)

Originally posted by Techark
Does anybody conduct private business in private any longer?
Most business is conducted in private, but every now and then they get aired on WHT. Such is life.

i say WOW!

guess that's why if you were to take a job on, alot of companies will get you to sign a legally binding contract ?

not dissing you or anything, good luck getting your money owed to you.. but really if you did not sign something i would say it will be alot harder to get / unless this company cares about there reputation on this forum.

Better luck in finding partner I would say

Steve,

I don't know how many countless times I have given you my phone number and requested you call me and leave a time for me to either return your call or drive the cash directly to you. I've told you numerous times I have no intentions of not paying you, but I prefer to do so in person. Under normal circumstances this would not be possible, but I'm just the next exit off on the parkway. We don't have to meet at your house but at some neutral place nearby, Mcdonalds maybe...

So again...You have my personal cell number, please give me a time when I may stop by and this issue will be behind us.

-Steven

Why would he need to meet you if you just sent him the money you owe him?

While most of this could have been avoided from the start, sometimes posting issues like this in public does have benefits for those that take the time to read them.

Learning that you need to consummate business and financial arrangements in writing is the first lesson learned. If you live 40 minutes away from someone you want to go in business with, go meet them before you get involved financially. If you are not 18, have your parent or guardian involved so you can protect your interests legally.

The thread starter seems like he was acting as responsible as he knew how, his partner basically admitted he owes him money so hopefully there will be an amicable conclusion to all this.

@nS-Steve
"There is no education like adversity." --Benjamin Disraeli

Too many kids truly believe they are ready for the business world when they are not. Fact is, the kid could have signed a dozen contracts with Steve, none would have been legally binding.

The phrase "many kids are more mature than the adults" is all over this forum and is a fair statement, it does not override the fact that THE LAW states that you are not mature enough to enter into a contract until you are 18 YOA.

Most any adult that enters into an agreement with a child is either (a) a fool, or (b) already has plans to play you.


Allow me to put on my flame suit

Dave

I don't understand why Steve feels the need to meet him to give him the money? Is the USPS on strike?

But if that's the only way he's going to get his money, then I would suggest that he do as Steve request, but make sure he brings a parent or other responsible adult with him and does it in public, and daylight. 'nuff said.

@ Steven

Are you available to talk on a ventrilo server right now? I'd like to talk this over with you, but you are ignoring all of my other methods of contact, even the toll free 800#.

Wow. These threads really amaze me. It just shows how "unprepared" young people are to deal in the real business world. 40 minutes away? Who cares if you can't drive yet. Get a parent or someone else to drive you over, get your money, move on. Done.

Going months and months without resolution just tells me you are not yet ready to run a business. You just don't have the skills or the common sense. Frankly, letting it go past a month or two is your own damn fault. If someone owes you money, take care of business. Don't end up posting here whining about your troubles. Just deal with it effectively and forcefully.

As for Steven, quite honestly he confuses me. I guess I got lucky. I had one business transaction with him. His company (Tierpix) produced a design for one of my sites. I (eventually) received product to my satisfaction, and I paid in full. In the process, there was some frustration in that he "disappeared" at key times when he should have been communicating with me. But in the end, I got my product. Historically, he does seem to have a perpetual problem in maintaining proper and timely communication.

Bottom line. Business is business. If you go into partnership with someone, get it on paper. If you're not old enough to enter into a binding contract, get a parent to sign for you. Then if/when a partner falls short on obligations, take care of it swiftly and effectively. Don't let it go 1/2 a year before resolution.

And the best advice I can give you is that if you are still in your teens, don't get involved in business. You're just too young for the complexities involved. Enjoy your youth. What the hell is your hurry? Chase some girls, go watch a movie, hang out with your friends, study, chill.

Plenty of time when you're older to take on a business.

Ugh. Something tells me that advice is falling on deaf ears... :rolleyes:

Vito

One question NS-STEVE, if you cannot drive yet you have a credit card to charge a server to? How old do you have to be to drive(16?), now if you are below 16 then what are you doing with a credit card? If you parents co-signed the card what in gods name are they letting you charge a server on it?

Derrick

Children shouldn't be in business and I don't define children strictly by age. However, based on age, knowledge and maturity this is truly a child. Look at the signs: (1) didn't know enough to get a written agreement, (2) couldn't read any of months of signs, (3) let the situation go on and on, (4) lacked the judgement to bring an adult into the equation when needed, (5) takes it all to a public forum.

However, pseudo-adults shouldn't be entering into business agreements with children....If they did, they should do so honorably and pay what is due. As the pseudo-adult or older child clearly has not denied any of the amount being due or any of the facts presented, but just said he would pay, and as he has not mailed the money as promised nor agreed to do so today (what about Fedex), but insists on getting the child's address to take it there, his story doesn't wash well either.

This whole mess is disgusting.

Advice to the younger child-get an adult's assistance immediately. Drive tomorrow to the older child's address to get your money. Forget about business.

Advice to the older pseudo-adult/child-either let him come to your location with an adult to get his money or FEDEX it to him on Monday for early Tuesday delivery. Don't take advantage of under age kids in the future.

I run a local courier service as well as the hosting business. Local sameday couriers are not expensive to use. You can usually get a envelope delivered the same day and a POD (Proof of Delivery) for under $5.00. If in a REAL big hurry, the charge to get a delivery completed within 1 hour of call-in is usually around $15.00. A small expense for peace of mind and happy clients.

I agree that this is a issue that could have been and should have been resolved off these boards.

amazing what people bring out in public...

I would think a public forum like this one is a good place for young people to learn, that is if the adults take the time to post a few things they can actually use and learn from (as many here have). He's young and he's learning, you can help that process out a little bit.....or not.

I have attempted to call Steven's cell today, every time I get his voice mail, no answer. He still continues to ignore my IMs, PMs, and emails. Steven, leave me a time I can reach you at please!

No offense here guys, but it really is time that this issue is taken off of these boards. This is a personal/business matter that's beyond what this board can help you with. I wish you luck and hope that you get everything settled with your situation, but this just isn't the place to try and settle it. ;)

Originally posted by CrazyTech
No offense here guys, but it really is time that this issue is taken off of these boards. This is a personal/business matter that's beyond what this board can help you with. I wish you luck and hope that you get everything settled with your situation, but this just isn't the place to try and settle it. ;)

This is the only place I can get a response out of him, so it will be continuted to be resolved on here.