:angry: Taliban :angry: has now officaly declaired a HOLY WAR against the USA. . :angry:

sorry, I originaly put osama bin instead of Taliban, hence post below refering to osama bin.

Seriously ...who cares a [....] if Bin Laden declares a 'holy war' ? Remember when Saddam Hussein declared the 'holy war' ?

:cartman:

I and look what we waisted with sadman hussey, and he is freinds with osama bin, which means they will be complete [.......] together.

*What* Are you talkin' 'bout???

let them declare a holy war

this happens all the time with them

bring it on :karate: :uzi:

The Taliban have called for a worldwide Holy war.

What we are talking about is the Taliban starting a WORLDWIDE war using the MUSLIM religion, all countries all Muslims orund the world. This is not good at all. Suicide bombers. In the past 10 years there have been over 260 Suicide bombs, scares the **** out of me!

Let them call a war.
US troops are not even going to land in Avghan.
All they are going to do is throw smoke and bombs from the planes. They are going to crush everyone living in the mountains or outside.

First off there is a very likley chance there will be some ground action.

Second, if you think bombing afganistan will do anything, go talk to the russians and ask them how well they did against afganistan.

Most Muslims feel that Osama Bin Liner and everything he stands for to be a disgrace to thier religion, so dont worry about Muslims all around the world joining in on his "Holy War" because most all of them know he is just a lamer without any real cause..

They will need to send ground troops in.

A Bomb is a joke, especially when they think he(towel head) is hiding the in the mountains.

Sure a bomb is powerful, but i guarantee they won't get him unless they send in ground troops.

Originally posted by scott99999
The Taliban have called for a worldwide Holy war.

What we are talking about is the Taliban starting a WORLDWIDE war using the MUSLIM religion, all countries all Muslims orund the world. This is not good at all. Suicide bombers. In the past 10 years there have been over 260 Suicide bombs, scares the **** out of me!

This is so off-base I'm not sure why I'm responding.

In addition to what everyone else said about the vast majority of Muslims not support Bin Laden, your original statement is false. The Taliban has NOT declared any type of holy war against anyone. They stated that IF (and only IF) the US attacks them, they would do so. To my knowledge, there has been no military action yet. As such, no one has delcared a holy war or any such nonsense.

Provide a link or otherwise stop posting this crap as fact!

They have not even finished meeting with their clerics....

For latest info:

http://1010wins.com/topstories/StoryFolder/story_1450279890_html


Where are the moderators of this board?

So before I dig myself a bigger hole :

What I posted was from the bbc headlines, however they are not saying this now. They are now saying "if USA attacks" as opposed to "a declaration of holy war".

My interpretation was wrong. :bawling: crap, disinformation.

Now I am watching the bbc live, they have just siad the Taliban has told there people to "prepair" for a war, after saying "if usa attacks", I guess they take a little while to "fine tune" there headlines.

I will never make a news-caster then so I shut up, and not post here as it is obviously the wrong place to talk about this.

Respects to you all for correcting me.

I think everyone is just scared, and you people who say bring them on make me sick... No matter how evil a nation is or a leader is, you should never wish death upon anyone, and think of all the thousands of small children and women who will be killed and dont have anything to do with any of the events that occured.

Im not against war, im not trying to preach to anyone how you should feel, but control your feelings and preach a end to all violence not the escalation of it.

Tears were brought to many a peoples eyes on this board after seeing how all the nations cared about us as a nation and the individual lives which were lost. Justice should be brought against all those involved that is for sure but not at the cost of needless thousands of other inocent lives lost.

Originally posted by Fred
For latest info:

http://1010wins.com/topstories/StoryFolder/story_1450279890_html


Where are the moderators of this board? That's the second time you asked in under four hours.
What do you want a moderator for?

Originally posted by JeremyL
First off there is a very likley chance there will be some ground action.

Second, if you think bombing afganistan will do anything, go talk to the russians and ask them how well they did against afganistan.

That's because they were doing ground action and they did not bomb them.

We're here Fred, and the thread is fine. The first post wasn't entirely accurate, but fine.

Originally posted by 4advertising
They will need to send ground troops in.

A Bomb is a joke, especially when they think he(towel head) is hiding the in the mountains.

Sure a bomb is powerful, but i guarantee they won't get him unless they send in ground troops.

24/7 smoke throwing and bombing will drive them out of mountains for sure.

They wouldn't start a war JUST to catch Bin Laden.

Well, you are talking about men who declare a holy war everytime their wives dont wanna give it up, that means they are just words that are said every night and have little meaning anyway..

As far as what we will be doing. First off, they are hiding in the mountains. First thing you do is send in quite a few waves of B-52's to drop several thousands of the extremely cheap eardrum poppers. It will either cave in the caverns on them, or they will come out with busted eardrums. They arent going to be too courageous once they are permanently deaf. The bombs are cheap, do very little damage, but are some of the loudest things on earth. They are meant to drive the enemy out of hiding places such as mountains.

They will come out of the mountains and they will face our troops. I would be real surprised if our troops took any prisoners either. They have the vengeance of the American people behind them like they have never had before. We are out for blood, and we are out for revenge. There will be no mercy shown to terrorists groups. We dont want them in prison, that costs our good hard earned money to support them. We want them wiped out. They are cockroaches. Do you imprison roaches? or do you kill them? The guilty will be slaughtered just like they slaughtered our innocent ones.

Maybe there are some who believe this is not right, but that is how our elite will handle it if given the opportunity. Ladin is to be brought back dead or alive. Of course, this means he will be brought back feet first.

Anyone remember during the Gulf War how we were expecting this elite force of troops to fight the American troops? Well, it turned out they were giving up by the battalions, they knew they were outgunned and outmanned. It may be the same situation here. The soldiers dont want to be in the middle of a political war and may simple just surrender once seeing American troops. Everyone over there is not a radical, many of these men have common sense just like we do...

The problem is that all muslim backed terrorist groups have cells world wide that will bring total ****, hell what ever to the normal citizen on the streets.

All it takes is a chemical agent in a water supplie and we are all digging up flowers and this is a real fact of life that we all should remember. Its not the bombs, bullets or any combat fighting that goes on over there but what terrorists are waiting in the wings for the call of action.

Thats whats scares the living **** out of me.

:angry:

Originally posted by The Realist
The problem is that all muslim backed terrorist groups have cells world wide that will bring total ****, hell what ever to the normal citizen on the streets.

All it takes is a chemical agent in a water supplie and we are all digging up flowers and this is a real fact of life that we all should remember. Its not the bombs, bullets or any combat fighting that goes on over there but what terrorists are waiting in the wings for the call of action.

Thats whats scares the living **** out of me.

:angry:
If you think this is NOT going to happen if we just lay low, you are sadly mistaken.

One thing that most of us to not comprehend here is that war has been declared. Ossama bin Laden has declared a jihad against all Americans. He wants us all dead, period. There is no negotiation with him. There is no path to peace where he and his network survive.

The only way to avoid getting attacked by chemical or biological weapons is to root them out and destroy them before they can be used against us.

-t

Originally posted by cbaker17
I think everyone is just scared, and you people who say bring them on make me sick... No matter how evil a nation is or a leader is, you should never wish death upon anyone, and think of all the thousands of small children and women who will be killed and dont have anything to do with any of the events that occured.

It is wrong to wish those behind this event to be dead? It is wrong to wish death upon a group or an individual who is responsible for murdering several thousand people in one day, on purpose? I will speak up. I WANT THIS MAN DEAD. I would carry it out with my bare hands if given the chance. If the U.S. has a shortage of people, I will be in line at the recruiter's office tomorrow morning.

As far as women and children... what do you think this group just did in new york and washington last week?

The reason they havent used them yet is because although they have the biologic poisens, they dont have the cures/antidotes. They wont do it without that. It's not a real vistory for them unless they can wipe us out without wiping themselves out. You can trust that if the poisen is release, it will not honor borders. It will get to them too. You also have to remember that most of their biologicals are simply such things as tougher versions of the flu, anthrax, etc. All are things we have ways to combat, but they do not. The bad thing is, it would knock out a good splice of our population before antidotes were handed out on a mass level, some of which we dont have near enough of. Once again, they have the ability to sucker punch us, but not keep us down.

And if they were to go that far....forget innocence people, only the Japanese have come even somewhat close to what these terrorists would see, as well as the countries that support them.

Originally posted by thewitt

If you think this is NOT going to happen if we just lay low, you are sadly mistaken.

One thing that most of us to not comprehend here is that war has been declared. Ossama bin Laden has declared a jihad against all Americans. He wants us all dead, period. There is no negotiation with him. There is no path to peace where he and his network survive.

The only way to avoid getting attacked by chemical or biological weapons is to root them out and destroy them before they can be used against us.

-t

Originally posted by Fred
Anyone remember during the Gulf War how we were expecting this elite force of troops to fight the American troops? Well, it turned out they were giving up by the battalions, they knew they were outgunned and outmanned. It may be the same situation here. The soldiers dont want to be in the middle of a political war and may simple just surrender once seeing American troops. Everyone over there is not a radical, many of these men have common sense just like we do...

The comparison doesn't work. Iraq was normal soldiers (albeit called elite) that were faced with an overwhelming number of American troops in the desert. They didn't have much choice, seeing as they were out in the open and exposed. However, Osama's followers (as well as many other Afghans) are experts at guerilla warfare. The whole area is steep mountains, valleys, caves, etc. If they see a group of US soldiers comning, they just hide. Once the soldiers go past, make camp, whatever, they come out and attack. The home field advantage is huge. Past ground invasions of Afghanistan have been dismal failures, and I honestly don't think the US could do that much better now.

We're not Russia. We're not going to use a $2 million dollar missile to blow up a $10 tent. As said before, we are going to drop cheap eardrum destroying bombs from B-52's all throughout their mountains to drive them out into the open or cause caverns to fall in on them. They cant communicate with each other if they are deaf, and they cant mount a decent defense without communication. They will lose their resolve and lose faith in their evil leaders soon after that. They say God will protect them. They will soon find out they are on the wrong side when He doesnt.

These bombs are extremely loud. Even being within a mile of the drop zone can make your ears bleed. We have all seen the firworks that shoot high in the sky and do an extremely loud explosion with a white blast. Imagine that exploding next to you. Now multiply that explosion by 500. Now imagine thousands of those dropping on you throughout the mountains you are hiding in.

The Taliban stand no chance.

Just curious if anyone here has any serious info about our industry in this regard?

I have clients in countries like India and that part of the world.
If there is anyone with a valid perspective of what will happen to any of us who have clients or even employees who are in that part of the world, I would like to hear more.

Thanks
AH

India is Hindu, not Muslim for the most part ;) And also remember that all of Osama's followers believe that if they die as a martyr, they will be rewarded by Allah.

Originally posted by scott99999
:angry: Taliban :angry: has now officaly declaired a HOLY WAR against the USA. . :angry:

sorry, I originaly put osama bin instead of Taliban, hence post below refering to osama bin.

uh oh
better kill yourself while you can

man whatever
who cares
let them bring it

There are some problems. One being that there isn't a solid set of hard targets to hit. The enemy isn't a nation, they don't have a capital, nor definitive ground areas which we can attack. Yes, they hide out in the mountains and in the desert, but from what I've seen, much of Afganistan is mountains and desert. You can't carpet bomb the entire country.

Second, although the last few attempts to take Afganistan were not successful, I don't thijnk that would be the aim. Not only is the country utterly useless to us (IMHO), it is surrounded by some rather hostile countries, and the aim seems more to root out the problems than to take the country. Easier said than done.

What do they have to lose? Many areas were never rebuilt after the war with Russia, and there is little economic stability in the area. They don't have much to protect.

Compare that with what they are and where they are (all over), and we (meaning those who are not them), have much more to lose. Sure, we drop a bomb on a mountain in the middle of nowhere and kill 10-25 young terrorist wannabes, and they attempt to bomb a major metropolitan building in a developed country. Who loses?

This is going to be the most difficult war, one that will probably near impossible to win, due to the enemy being hundreds of small, world-wide, suicide willing, civilian targeting extremists who don't give a damn and don't have anything to lose.

Although Americans say we'll die for our country, in truth that is not how we've been brought up. We might have that mentality due to military training, but still, we expect to die fighting. This is different that suicide bombing.

To be honest, while trying to find the many groups in existance and their camps, etc. is important, the best angle might be to absolutely destroy any country or government who knowingly supports and harbors these groups. If you protect these groups, you are partially responsible and should be held accountable.

I don't know how else this could be done, but would love to hear discussions about it. No one has to agree with me, for that would be boring. I'd like to know what others would do.

Originally posted by Chicken

To be honest, while trying to find the many groups in existance and their camps, etc. is important, the best angle might be to absolutely destroy any country or government who knowingly supports and harbors these groups. If you protect these groups, you are partially responsible and should be held accountable.

So destroy the country, including the large number (probably the majority) of people who have nor want nothing to do with the government or the terrorists that the government supports? How different are we from the terrorists then? In their mind, they attacked civilians to reach their ultimate goal. If we just go and flatten the country, we'd be doing the same thing, except to a much greater extent.

carpet bombing making them deaf???
then they wouldnt hear us at all.

good idea,

what about this?

Im not trying to be funny saying this, I genuinely think that doing something like this would blow there minds due to what I estimate there "set" to be. I also think that there must be many other triggers that could be used to great affect.

Carpet bomb the whole mountians with a "sound bomb" that belts out "Barber's Adagio for Strings" 24/7 really loud and envokes deep uncontrollable emotive responces hidden within there own subconsionces thus causing a chain reaction of uncontrollable and unallowable thoughts and questions arrising inside there own heads. I also think that they would feel much hurt in a different way, just because there terrorists does not mean they dont have deep deep control feelings, after all thats what there about, so I think they are open to it. They dropped the pictures of hitler wanking while doing a salute to the soldiers during the war, this aparrently was a hitler snap with a handpainted penis of very high quality on about 6*4" postcards. This did do damage to there system, unseen damage mostly.

Get into there heads and change the way they work, bomb them with music literaly!

Could be realy easy know to make speaker / stereo bombs, you could even fix mobile linux streams into them to "artificialy bomb / shot" them in the night just to confuse them. Then every night you switch on the machine gun noises and they dont know whats going on, then you play "Barber's Adagio for Strings" and others and see if they think a bit different, if there little organisation starts to crack? If this idea offends people sorry, its the only thing I can think of that would not need to kill people to strongly influence and control there minds. If everyone thought 1 positive idea each no matter how silly we would be surprised where all would be.

Anyone think this would do anything at all?

The force does not need language, but hope helps considerably.

Originally posted by Planet Z
So destroy the country, including the large number (probably the majority) of people who have nor want nothing to do with the government or the terrorists that the government supports?

I guess I stepped off into a tangent there heh. In reading it again, I didn't mean the whole country, just the government and key targets in the country. Either way it would affect the innocent, though few wars won't have this effect I suppose.

Meanwhile I don't know. They have a target. We don't. Their actions so far have killed who knows how many people, toppled two major landmarks deep in one of the financial capitals of the world, resulting in 80,000 jobs lost, economic problems for many industries, and overall economic problems for the country.

All in one day with 4 planes.

I surely don't feel I have the answer for this. I just know that we stand to lose a whole lot (and by we I'm not even thinking soley fo the United States). Who knows, sure they hate us, but this could be carried out anywhere and even at the same time doing some real global damage to many markets, industries, and people.

The equation isn't going to balance. Even with the Oklahoma bombing (internal U.S. terrorism), what was lost and what was gained by the capture and death of one (if there was more than one involved), didn't equate what happened. It never will.

This is a war on terrorism. A war against terrorists and any country that harbors them. For that makes the country the same as the terrorist.
A terrorist organization cannot be well maintained within a country that will not allow it. Terrorists need telephones, computers, transportation, and money. You cannot acquire these items and remain hidden.
If a country chooses to suppress a terrorist organization; then terror becomes medieval. The occasional car bomb at best. There is little organization if communication lines are not readily available.

This is a war on terrorism. It will not be a fast war. It will take a long time. But, in the end, terrorism will lose.

Originally posted by scott99999
[clip]Anyone think this would do anything at all?
No.

Sorry. The only thing these people understand is death. If it gets them closer to Allah, I'm glad to help.

Islamic terrorists are no worse than any others, but they do believe that death in the name of their cause - which is total destruction of non-Islamic believers - is the highest honor.

Did you know that the Taliban have destroyed ancient Budhist temples and idols on the Silk Road? These were once painstakingly carved into the cliffs, some many hundreds of feet high. They were destroyed because they are not Islamic religions idols - nothing more. Did you know that the 8 foreign aid workers being held are going to be killed - suffer the DEATH PENALTY - for opening practicing Christianity while they were handing out food to the starving people of Afghanistan? No freedom of religion in Afghanistan, and these people were not even Afghan citizens - they were in thr country handing out free food and other supplies direclty to the poor.

These are not rational people. They will not behave nor react in any way that you or I would. They only understand death - yours or theirs it does not matter.

The real sad tale here is the millions of Afghani poor who will now die of starvation because our aid haas been cut off. Yes, our aid. Even as the Taliban have been harboring bin Laden, we have been spending millions of dollars to feed the poor people of Afghanistan.

The Afghani people don't hate us, the Taliban hate us. The Afghani people were happily ruled by a King just 30 years ago. They were a monarchy with a stable - though somewhat oppressive government. This was overthrown and replaced by an intollerant fundamentalist government which led first to civil war, then to war with the Soviets, and then on to more civil war. They are a county that has known nothing but war and conflict for more than 20 years. They have no resources to speak of (opium is their largest crop) and rely entirely on outside aid for survival.

When people talk about bombing them back to the stone age, they are literally there already. The military have 12 planes, a couple dozen helicoptors, 110,000 ground troops and a few captured Soviet tanks and armored vehicles. As a military, they have nothing. As a leadership, the Taliban rules through absolute fear and suppression.

The Northern Alliance is a moderate Muslim group who are ready, willing, and actively trying to take their country back. They will be gladly welcomed by the people of Afghanistan if they can feed them. All the people of Afghanistan care about is living. It's the Taliban and their rulers who are whacked, and indeed need to be removed by any means possible.

-t

These are very good points but Im more concerned about our own country and troops that stand to die over this. And our currently military has had such a huge manning issue for several years now that we aren't quite the big bad military we once were although these attacks may actually help in that area. Recruiting offices have been getting a great deal more requests than before and that may help many of the career fields in the military that were already at critical manning levels. As of Oct. 2 uncle sam will also enact "Stop Lose" which means nobody gets out for any reason, no retirements or normal seperation when you time furhter indicating a manning problem. Whether the general public knows it or not the military has been under manned for some time and it will take a lot of people to bring these critical field up from their current level of having only 60% of the people they need.
Bottom line is our military has been lacking for a long time, its sad that these attacks are what it took to get people to the recruiters.

Thanks, thewitt, that was an excellent post. The majority of Americans are extremely ignorant when it comes to knowing anything about Afghanistan. Unfortunately, most people just picture it as a country full of terrorists. Which it certainly is not. I'm sure most of them don't support the terrorists at all. But Afghanistan isn't America. If you voice your opinion there and it does not coincide with that of the Taliban, you are either arrested or killed. Thus, you're not going to be seeing a lot of dissenters.

I have nothing against bombing the terrorist camps or anything related to them. However, I do oppose any huge military action that basically aims to flatten the country.

"The Northern Alliance is a moderate Muslim group who are ready, willing, and actively trying to take their country back. They will be gladly welcomed by the people of Afghanistan if they can feed them. All the people of Afghanistan care about is living. It's the Taliban and their rulers who are whacked, and indeed need to be removed by any means possible."

I especially agree with you on this, thewitt; USA should think of NA as the tool to get Afganistan on it`s feet again. After hearing that the US is going to use 10 years devoted to fighting terrorists, I`m very hopefull to the thought that they won`t bomb the mountains of Afganistan and hopefully a minimum of cities. What they should do is to supress and kill the Taliban force by using soldiers and tacktical choppers, as they are the only enemy in Afganistan and hurting many others could give us the same story all over again. I also hope that the US and all other western countries will help the NA to build up a western like society after the storm is over. This is what you did with (many of) us europeans after the 2nd world war, and we`ve become your closest friend :)

This isnt about liberating the Afghan people, it's about taking out terrorists. I mean c'mon. We help the Northern Alliance take over and soon enough they will hate us also just because it is their nature. Who's to say that the NA wont be just as bad as the Taliban? Each group that takes over seems to be worse than the one before. We need to take out their government and setup a new one. Build a small power plant there, give everyone a tv and satellite, and educate them. These people are brainwashed into thinking America, Britain, France, and several others go around starting wars for the hell of it and to keep the middle east in conflict with itself. It's easy to brainwash them when they have no contact with the outside world. They believe whatever their current leaders tell them. They are sheep, educate them and make them into humans who will fight for their rights once they know the truth.

Taking out the tyrants and putting in a democratic governments seems to have done well over the years.

Also, the American buildup is far FAR larger than it needs to be. I dont think it's just a show of power. I think our Government has anticipated this to spread far beyond the Afghan borders. How long till most mid-east countries turn against us and then we are at war with them also?? Iran and Iraq are sure to put their noses into it. Pakistanians are already turning against us. The Saudi's are one of only 2 governments that still recognize the Taliban of the official gov of Afghan....that whispers of potential future problems as well.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell everyone to keep supporting the Red Cross. They have enough money now for this incident, but under the times there could could be another attack, and the Red Cross will need to have plenty of funds readily available to us. However, I am concerned about some of this money possibly being used to help other countries. For example, I dont mind it helping our allies in times of need, but I DO NOT want to see a dime of it going to help the Afghan people. That's not what I have donated my money for.

Originally posted by Webdude
Build a small power plant there, give everyone a tv and satellite, and educate them. These people are brainwashed into thinking America, Britain, France, and several others go around starting wars for the hell of it and to keep the middle east in conflict with itself. It's easy to brainwash them when they have no contact with the outside world. They believe whatever their current leaders tell them. They are sheep, educate them and make them into humans who will fight for their rights once they know the truth.


Although it may at first sound like it works, "educating" foreign cultures tends to cause similar sorts of problems. Missionaries in North and South America, India, South Africa and other places around the globe had the same idea, and a lot of cultural battle lines were drawn as a result.

Their own culture is fine. What we're seeing is not really their culture, its a twisted and bitter thing that's evolved from years of conflict. Any solution needs to nurture their own culture, not brainwash them again into a Western mindset.

Originally posted by Webdude
For example, I dont mind it helping our allies in times of need, but I DO NOT want to see a dime of it going to help the Afghan people. That's not what I have donated my money for.

God forbid that the people that REALLY need help would receive it.

I should have said...

I dont mind it helping our allies in times of need, but I DO NOT want to see a dime of it going to help the Afghan people. That's not what I have donated my money for....not while enemies are in power there.

You see, do you really thin Bin Ladin or the Taliban would share anything with the people there?? Or that they would take it away from the people? I wont feed Ladin or the Taliban's men, which regardless of our intentions, is exactly what would happen.