What if 2CO did NOT have the DDOS problem.. Because eventually, they'll get it straightened-out. If they don't, they'll be out of business.. So.. 2CO vs Paysystems... Who's better?

Other than DDOS, the problem I hear in regards to 2CO is it takes a long time to get paid.. WHY IS THAT?

The problem I hear in regards to Paysystems is something to do with Recurring billing (that I don't even clearly understand yet). Care to explain?

Basically I just want to know the advantages/disadvantages of both - NOT including the DDOS issue...

Only your initial payment from 2Checkout may be delayed as they process your account to ensure you're not trying to pull off some kind of fraud. Money here is deposited weekly and takes 2-3 business days once the deposit is made to arrive.

-Matt

Thank you for replying.. So I guess THAT theory is 'out the window'...

Originally posted by RackNine
Money here is deposited weekly and takes 2-3 business days once the deposit is made to arrive.

-Matt

how did you manage to get them to do that? i thought it was only 2 times a month

Other than these recent attacks on 2CO, iv never had any problems with them, their support, or being paid on a regular basis..

Paysystems on the other hand has been nothing but a headache for me.. over 2 weeks of bouncing emails back and forth to their "underwriting" department.. I had enough of them and told them to close it..

If you have higher sales proceeds (I believe $1000+ a week), it can be done weekly.

As far as deposits, we had our's within two days of the release date for at least the past four months.

I'm having a feeling that besides the DDOS attacks, 2CheckOut is a better option. This is my opinion after reading a lot of discussions here. I'm just trying to put together some final conclusions before I go ahead and sign-up..

Thank you...

I'm actually leaning towards PaySystems because of there weekly payouts. Plus, they don't get DDoSed as much. (I Know I Know, I just had to bring it up!)

hehe! I hear ya.. Well.. What's the wait at 2CheckOut? 2 weeks. Right? That's okay with me...

Ya, If I could get a weekly payout, I would go with 2CO maybe. But I need the money so I can pay Nocster. :/

Just to add:

Paysystems are a group of notorious spammers. They'll stop at nothing to try and steal clients from 2Checkout and other vendors. If that's the kind of company you want to support by all means go with them.

-Matt

Best way is use both of them. One as primary and the other as backup processor. ;)

You get best of both worlds. :p

I'd be inclined to switchover fairly quick-like if 2checkout paid weekly. :)

Does seem smart to keep more than one on hand.

I must add that 2COs payment for the period Nov 16th to Nov 30th is already on my bank account (USA -> Greece). Considering that they have problems of technical nature and they could excuse themselves and make some quick money by keeping the money an extra 2-3 days on their account, I think this is a great service (and always was, there was never not even 1 day delay).

kosmo

I have to agree with kosmo, even though they have had all these attacks they did not delay payments. They came in right on time.

2Checkout's biggest problem by far is their lack of communication. I still have an open Support ticket for the attack from a couple days ago. Their other problem is their heavy handed moderator tactics on their forums but that can be avoided as well. If you want to work your way into a Merchant account they are ok to start with, but they certainly have demonstrated their weaknesses the last week...

There is absolutely no way I would pick 2CO over Paysystems. 2CO has had nothing but technical problems for the last year and a half be it their sellers area or their telephone system, they pay slow or don't pay on time and they don't keep the books correctly. We have long since left them but they always seem to find a way add a debit instead of a credit. My prediction is that 2CO will be out of business by the end of 2004, no later than the middle of 2005. Mark my words, with the track record they have, it's only a matter of time before someone who knows how to operate a business properly blows their company out of the water.

Originally posted by fas-track
Paysystems on the other hand has been nothing but a headache for me.. over 2 weeks of bouncing emails back and forth to their "underwriting" department.. I had enough of them and told them to close it..

hehe - yeah, that damm underwriting dept. I ended up just forgetting about it and signing up with 2co.

Paysystems even wanted a huge document faxed to them (I'm in australia too) as well as someone to gauruntee you! that was the last straw IMO. ;)

Originally posted by platinum
hehe - yeah, that damm underwriting dept. I ended up just forgetting about it and signing up with 2co.

Paysystems even wanted a huge document faxed to them (I'm in australia too) as well as someone to gauruntee you! that was the last straw IMO. ;)

I had to send it in by airmail... I would have faxed if I know that was allowed.

my payment from 2CO is quite timely. But normally their support need to take a least 2,3 days to answer my ticket, and my recent problem with 2CO is my balance is wrong !!! I have to audit my account and calculate them one by one to discover this.

When a company states "We pay weekly", assure yourself of what week they are paying you for. That could be a large determining factor. A number of companies claim "weekly" payments, but do not declare that the payment is for a period of at least 1 week prior.

immotive please email me if your balance is incorrect. Provide all StoreID numbers in your email :)

Well I am sure that a warning to verify what exactly constitutes a weekly payment from Paysytems is good advice Tom.

What seems curious to me is that you choose to post a warning about Paysystems in this thread yet in this thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211523) with over 7000 views and more than 300 posts you chose not to make a single post? Many of those posts were made by your own clients wondering why they couldnt make sales for 4 days because 2Checkout was down.

Perhaps you should learn how to communicate a bit better with your own clients before you start warning them off about the competition.


Just a thought.....

I didn't warn at all about any specific company. I offered a piece of advice for anyone searching for processing based on pay cycles.

This would be no different than a discussion where someone would solely compare discount rates, and another poster chimes in with a note reminding readers to consider not only the discount rate, but also the transaction charge.

As for the other thread, the statements made in that thread were accurate. For long periods of time, over the thanksgiving holiday, our pages were inaccesible. I could have posted a "Yes, you are correct. The Buyers server has been knocked offline by a DDoS attack, the magnitude of which has (at times) taken our ISP down". But the DDoS information had not only already been posted, it had been responded to...with links to statements posted on our Vendor login pages, forums and Support Ticket system.

Sadly, I didn't have an answer I could provide. The nature of the attack and the defense changed rapidly. By the time I could explain scenario A, we were onto senario B or C.

My mistake then Tom, I saw the thread title of "2Checkout vs. Paysystems" and assumed you were not talking about 2Checkout.

...I could explain scenario A, we were onto senario B or C.
I can only speak for myself but I would have loved to even know there was a scenario A, B and C. As it played out no one was told anything. In fact midway through the crisis I got a response to a Support Ticket saying that everything was fine, only a few people were still being blocked. That was about Day 2 of 4 days of downtime...

Sometimes the tremendous inconveniences of posting some explanations (even if they are a bit outdated or redundant) are far outweighed by the benefits of providing good customer service. Now you can take notice of this sentiment echoed many times in that thread.....or not.

Tom, 2checkout has a very bad habit of holding back information and then after the fact stating, "oh, sorry for the inconvenience." I've had so many problems with 2checkout that I can't even begin to tell you how many there were. 3 times my balance has been wrong simply because whoever is keeping the books adds to the debt instead of subtracting.

Two other times I've had thousands of dollars transferred into my bank account only to be told later that there was an error. Sure there will be problems now and again but when it comes to my money, you better be spot on.

I've asked you and been booted off your forum for asking this question:

If we are paid weekly and supposed to be paid on a Wednesday, why has 2checkout on numerous ocassions told me a few days after the pay date, sorry, we're behind. Problems I understand but when a pay date is the first, it doesn't mean that if the first is on a Tuesday it's ok to pay on the following Friday or Monday. I'm not talking about holidays so please don't use that excuse.

So instead of simply answering the question truthfully, you chose to ignore it and then delete it. When I started to make a stink, you simply kicked me off. The two people who worked with me from 2checkout were Kirsten and Sam. Other than that, most of the other's either had a piss poor atittude or shuffled me around to others, negating their responsiblity.

At one time I recommended 2checkout. At first it was great. Slowly but surely it has went into the crapper. Now I recommend ANYONE and I mean ANYONE who talks to me about doing business online to NEVER use 2checkout. If they want to accept credit cards I suggest getting a merchant account or to use Paysystems. Paysystems has been straight with me from the get-go. 2checkout has been a mom and pop organization. Some have had the patience to put up with late payments, lousy service, technical problems that shouldn't be happening and a host of other things but I chose not to. No way. If I were Tom I'd start getting his resume ready because anyone with two eye can see that 2CO is an example of how NOT to run a business. Good luck Tom, you're gonna need it.

Well, I hope 2CO gets things together - because I intend on giving them a try. It seems like the easiest solution at the moment. I don't think I'll have enough sales to really be worried about DDoS attacks. I'm starting a VERY small hosting company just to host some friends, people I know and sites I build - and maybe the occasional person who happens to find my business from a link here or there.

Also, the little money I'll be making probably wouldn't be worth the monthly fees of a merchant account. If I grow big enough that those fees are negligable, I'll think otherwise...

But if things aren't going to work properly - and payments aren't going to be made on time - and customer service is going to be lacking - of course I'll go elsewhere. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and let you all know how things go...

Hey Collaziano,

Wouldn't it suck if one of those very few clients went to make a payment and they couldn't? I found it even more difficult having a small company and dealing with 2checkout because when I was just barely making enough to cover the cost of the server, and 2checkout went down. That meant I had to pay out of my own pocket for someone elses problems (2checkout)

Go with someone else, paysystems or even PayPal! I processed credit cards with paypal for months when I was still a small company.

I just got my new merchant account this week and already love it, I've had more consistant payments, customers happier with the way their payments are handled, and a variety of other things that have just made life easier.

Paysystems... PayPal... but NOT 2checkout.

A target remains a target until it is dead, 2checkout is just going to keep getting attacked until the person(s) doing it are stopped or 2checkout kicks the bucket.

I agree,

Apperently 2CO isnt't doing enough to stop these and they are just not reliable for a small host. Starting out go with PayPal. When you think you need something else as well, get PaySystems. The finnally go for a merchant account.

We ran of PayPal for 2 months and now are getting many requests for credit card processing outside PayPal so we are getting ready to go with PaySystems. I like the fact that they have weekly payments and don't go down. Maybe in a year or so we will move to a merchant account, but thats to far away. ;) We plan on intergrating PaySystems into our ordering system just in time for our HUGE christmas sale.

TomD any info when you will be able to bill in Euro? (Sellers beeing able to put their prices in €)

Static pricing in foreign currencies is available now.

Please email me at kristin@2co.com if you would like additional information.

Originally posted by kdach Please email me at kristin@2co.com if you would like additional information. [/B]

Holy Moly - someone from 2co dares to raise their head here! :argue: Brave.

Can you tell us why a DDOS attack shut you guys down for so long?

Was there a tested DDOS attack plan in place?

Are your former network engineers lookinf for new jobs?

Why was the entire system affected? Is there not some redundancy or geographical diversity?

Why the lack of communication?

Could you tell 2co management that we expect a full, detailed, blow by blow explanation, and we expect it soon?

Comment 1:
I think Tom's been around in this forum and we've definitely had a presence in our own as well. I don't think "brave" is the issue. It's more a matter of prioritizing.

Q1:
The last DDOS attack was quite large from what I've been told.

Q2:
Yes, but some steps taken after the previous attack aren't able to be implemented as quickly as we would like and the strength of the attack couldn't be mitigated by the steps we were able to get implemented.

Q3:
Not necessarily but we are doing some additional hiring.

Q4:
Updates were posted in our own forum quickly. I'll try to make certain we post additional information here as well.

Speaking as management...
I doubt you'll get a blow by blow due to security concerns that would open up but our own Dec newsletter will be out very soon and the issue will be addressed through that medium.

Kristin

Q4:Updates were posted in our own forum quickly. I'll try to make certain we post additional information here as well.
Let's see:
First post by management on the 2Checkout forums was at 11.28.2003, 12:25
Followed by another 10 hours later stating "At this time, the DDOS is under control".

There was NO further updates posted until 11.30.2003, 14:46.
That is TWO DAYS LATER ! Now we must certainly have a different idea of what "quickly posted" on your forums means. I don't think leaving all your customers wondering why they can't conduct business for more than 2 days is acceptable. Especially considering the last post from Management made the statement that everything was fine.

Now when was the next update? It was at 12.01.2003, 00:21. Oh did I mention that during this crisis I submitted a support ticket? The response was that everything was ok but just a few people might be blocked. This was followed by 2 more days of downtime.

Now it was very obvious that management was actively monitoring the forum because you were deleting your customer's posts faster than I could read them. Your communication to your clients during this crisis was terrible and there is absolutely no excuse for it.

Originally posted by Collaziano
SNIP
So.. 2CO vs Paysystems... Who's better?

SNIP

Basically I just want to know the advantages/disadvantages of both - NOT including the DDOS issue...

I have two problems with Paysystems:

1) They make you jump through hoops to sign up with them. You have to mail them a copy of your photo ID, a signed contract, and a voided business check.

2) The top of their order form says "You are buying PaySystems Points to be redeemed at: ***********", which is a little confusing and doesn't look very professional IMHO. Makes me think of "Disney dollars" ;)

i can see 2checkout.com guys in this form and looking at this " BIG ISSUE FOR THEIR REPUTIONS" :), paysystems does!


i hope 2checkout.com is getting better and better, however, like some guys said it was a target by someone, and no way can get rid of it! and now they block IP address for avoding attack, same time force their clients loose customers and sales!

paysytems is OK, but i heard someone said buyer can easily click refund button in their system even it already over 6 months.
Oh my god, that is really bad.

I hope another comany will coming out , and took both of their position and sooner and later, 2checkout will be bankrupted due to DDOS attack, and paysytems will be down due to lack of customers.

Finally , the world is not end. Merchant account is final solution for everyone want to run your business( big comany ).

BTW, paypal is really good for sending receiving money, stable!
but need register account! problem not perfect!

If it weren't for people having to register with PayPal, I'd use them. If it weren't for PaySystems giving 6 months refunds (you idiots), I'd use them. If it weren't for 2CO falling off the face of the Earth because somebody's mad at them, I'd use them...

Originally posted by platinum
hehe - yeah, that damm underwriting dept. I ended up just forgetting about it and signing up with 2co.

Paysystems even wanted a huge document faxed to them (I'm in australia too) as well as someone to gauruntee you! that was the last straw IMO. ;)


you can also scan and email like i did but make sure you send all pages not just the ones you have to sign

Originally posted by supportmedia
you can also scan and email like i did but make sure you send all pages not just the ones you have to sign

The whole contract is like 15 pages if I remember rightly. It would be easier to use a carrier pigeon. :stickout: