I personally think the reason for the plane crash was to bring american business into global recession.

Even if it wasnt the the plan, its is a very likely outcome :(

They like the donated money to their people but they say they hate USA.
They are cheating them selves.

I think that by crashing into the WTC was to send us a message that they did not want American Commerce and Business to continue. I dont think they thought it would stop it...which it wont stop, AMERICANs WILL MOVE ON!!!

I think they just wanted to take down a large object, or symbol of American Business, which was the World Trade Center.

Jim

Synergy, I disagree. If their chief goal was to damage the US economy there would have been much better targets -- major factories (eg, those $6B fabrication plants), bank headquarters, for that matter even the federal reserve. I don't mean to disparage the damage done, but there was little strategic or economic damage done. Blowing up the headquarters of a few major banks would have had a far greater impact on the economy.

Originally posted by cperciva
Synergy, I disagree. If their chief goal was to damage the US economy there would have been much better targets -- major factories (eg, those $6B fabrication plants), bank headquarters, for that matter even the federal reserve. I don't mean to disparage the damage done, but there was little strategic or economic damage done. Blowing up the headquarters of a few major banks would have had a far greater impact on the economy.

Agreed.

This is a religious act for them.

Originally posted by bert

This is a religious act for them.

No, they are crazy/madmen...in NO religion is there an okay time to kill someone.

Jim

Jim,

Read what is going on in the eastern world and then tell me what you think the differences are between your religion and their religion.

As we all know that the stock market is on halt.

Any major terrorist attack in the US, regardless of the target, would have had a similar negative affect on the world's market. It's not the loss of the offices or personnel of any particular corporation, it's the signal of instability in the world that has investors moving their money to more secure holdings.

So was that the goal? Maybe, but just as likely is that it's the same goal as that of similar terror attacks in other parts of the world: to change public opinion, to convince the American people that the positions the government takes in places like the Middle East aren't worth the consequences.

I think that such a campaign will fail, but that doesn't mean that it won't be attempted.

Bert,

I still feel that religion, even Islam, has a rule against the killings of civilians. This could never have been something, any religious organization acctually endorsed. If they did, then lets wipe out the religion.

Jim

I agree with you, but these individuals don't mind killing themselves nonetheless killing innocent people. They have a "holy war" as they call it against the US and this is more than likely because of the support that the US has been providing to Israel.

......................holy war??.........whats this world coming to?

whats this world coming to?

Coming to an end. :(

"The faster it come to an end, the less you will suffer"
By ME :(

Originally posted by jimb


No, they are crazy/madmen...in NO religion is there an okay time to kill someone.

Jim

There may not be religions that do that but cults do..

Originally posted by Synergy
"The faster it come to an end, the less you will suffer"
By ME :(

Agreed.

What's up people, :(

First things first, for the people here arguing that these acts are against their religion are dead wrong. In fact the situation is polar opposite. If they do not do these things they are disobeying their religion. Here is a link (http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&ti=761582255) for all of you to read over. Pretty sick beliefs I know! :( There is no reasoning with anyone with such evil beliefs. Blood shed is inevitable. :(

Second for the people that think that the World Trade Center (WTC) was not a major blow to the economy are also dead wrong. First thing you need take into consideration is the fact that 1/3 of all transactions occurring in the USA go through NYC (i.e. WTC). The next thing you must take into consideration is that the 3 centers for trade/business of the free world are NYC, Tokyo, and London (At the top of the list is NYC). Next you must consider everyone who is anyone in the business world had some sort of office in the WTC and many had their headquarters there. Including Banks, Insurance Companies, Brokerage houses, Commodities, Retail, etc., etc., etc. The symbolic meaning of the building and the fact that it plummeted to the ground scares the **** out of many foreign and domestic investors alone which means as soon as the markets open stocks are sure to plummet. Yes we are able to move on and if people would just have confidence it would not effect us but people panic that’s just human nature.

About the whole situation, well I have not committed yet being that many are just relaying information you can see on any news network if you listen to the radio or watch TV. I just figured I would correct some misinformation. The whole situation has me at a loss for words but I’m sure we will have someone to hold accountable just be patient. With the technology we have today there is no way these sick ****s will escape our grasp. We will find them and bomb the **** out of them, then send in ground troops and turn who ever is left into Swiss cheese. This heinous crime will not go unpunished. From latest news it sounds like 4 countries are involved. Sounds logical to me. Something this extreme and well thought out would take the genius and funding of allot of crazy ass people. I’m sure you all can make a logical assumption to whom the countries involved are and if not you will probably hear it on the news soon. Just try and get back to normal life and watch how all this unfolds. If you are determined to get involved do what you must.

Peace
Wise1

Proud Citizen of the United States of America!

Jim.

You should research CNN and such because this definitely WAS a Religious Act.

Ben Laden, who has ties to the 'top' muslim (their equivalent to the pope, but more powerful), has proclaimed that it is EVERYBODYS DUTY, to KILL AMERICANS.

Every member of their religion is supposed to kill at least one american.

Ben Laden constantly says that it is their duty to kill americans, because they are evil and impure.
I read this on CNN.

i think they did this to show that american isn't the safest country and to put a shame to it's power, that's all i think so don't flame me! **ducks**

Originally posted by RunOfTheMill
Jim.

You should research CNN and such because this definitely WAS a Religious Act.

Ben Laden, who has ties to the 'top' muslim (their equivalent to the pope, but more powerful), has proclaimed that it is EVERYBODYS DUTY, to KILL AMERICANS.

Every member of their religion is supposed to kill at least one american.

Ben Laden constantly says that it is their duty to kill americans, because they are evil and impure.
I read this on CNN.

Then wouldn't it be our duty to prevent that buy darkening their skies and end their suffer?

you would think so wouldnt you

but its not as if he only stated this recently
hes been saying this for years.
:mad:

What's up, :(

The fact is that these people are not a state with boarders. We can not just kill alll of them. We do not know who they are. They are amongst us. For example some of the pilots lived about a 15 or 20 min drive from my house for over a year acording to the new. This **** is hitting to close to home. They are all over. All we can do is take out their leaders and the countries that asist and harbor them and sease all of their assets we can. This will not end soon. :(

Peace
Wise1

I find this amazing, Suadi Arabians have commited these acts of terrorisim. Americans attacked Iraq when we wanted to take Suadi Arabia off the face of the Earth. We were actually doing the U.S a favour. I have been to Suadi Arabia, they hate Americans more then palestinians... Bush shouldn't waste money on there filthy oil.

Originally posted by wise1
What's up people, :(

Second for the people that think that the World Trade Center (WTC) was not a major blow to the economy are also dead wrong. First thing you need take into consideration is the fact that 1/3 of all transactions occurring in the USA go through NYC (i.e. WTC).

You better have data to back that up because I worked ( the 80'and 90's) in the 2 towers of WTC also at the exchange. accross the street was where I got my first job at Merill Lynch ( one liberty plaza ) cross that street you had a park with a bronze statue of a guy on a bench reading something from his breifcase.

no way does 1/3 of the anything happen at the wtc ( well maybe some of the commodities ) trading desks are all over the downtown and midtown area and after 1990 ( when the exchange went down due to fiber cut and When they bombed the building ) fiber optic lines were place redundantly all over.

customs building handle some stuff but mostly everything went electronic.

At lease 10 banks and 10 brokerage houses were inside. but that will be handle by other branches ( trading desks are very portable ) and the data processing centers were not near by ( cost of realestate and NYC labor made those centers expensive).

I will say this much I know of atleast 3 companies that will no longer exist untill new entire staff arrives ( at 2:30 am yesterday they were running on the screen the names of firms and in the shipping game we all started working from 7:30 am and general staff at 8:15 ) ZIM LINES, CANADIA and Layden ( i hope bernie layden made it out).



The next thing you must take into consideration is that the 3 centers for trade/business of the free world are NYC, Tokyo, and London (At the top of the list is NYC).


you forgot Hong Kong and Singapore


Next you must consider everyone who is anyone in the business world had some sort of office in the WTC and many had their headquarters there. Including Banks, Insurance Companies, Brokerage houses, Commodities, Retail, etc., etc., etc. The symbolic meaning of the building and the fact that it plummeted to the ground scares the **** out of many foreign and domestic investors alone which means as soon as the markets open stocks are sure to plummet. Yes we are able to move on and if people would just have confidence it would not effect us but people panic that’s just human nature.

yes and no

It was a great building for asian bankers I feel confident in saying that atleast the top 10 asian banks had big offices there, but I'm not sure. I know atleast the top 3 japan banks were there.

brokerage houses you had dean witter 76 fl to 90 I can't recal which tower and then a bunch of small ones.

Insurance was small, commodities building held a ton of people and that was tower 6 ( to the right of the path station when you when up thier stairs )

I won't argue that alot of business went via the WTC, but not 1/3 of it. alot less

at least I'm hopeful I've guesses that more people have survived based on the phone calls I've made to my old pals. I'm willing to guess that the losses will be less than 33%. and I've even spoke to some real old pals. I know that might sound awful but from my vantage point (where i saw everything from) and knowledge of companies in the towers You would have thought the same.

-Michael

What's up sqposter,

I quote myself:

First thing you need take into consideration is the fact that 1/3 of all transactions occurring in the USA go through NYC

I said New York City not just the World Trade Center. The world trade center is where allot of business went down though. As we know the twin towers went down then several others. Buildings just seam to keep falling (domino effect). :( That's not to say that they can't move to other branches and stabilize their operations but it dose slow things down allot and it dose hurt trade to an extent not to mention all the people. Allot of heavy hitters were in those buildings. :( My point was that it was a prime target for someone with such deranged beliefs. The symbolic meaning will hurt things alone. I know about Hong Kong and Singapore as well I was just naming the 3 largest. The world trade center may of not been the very best possible attacking point financial wise but it is near the top of the list and the symbolic meaning pushes it to the top for a target. :( There is no need to ague over figures at a moment like this anyway. The point is that it is a huge blow to us and not just a random target. :(

Peace
Wise1

Religion is often used as an excuse to kill nonbelievers.
There are Christian groups that use religion as an excuse to kill, starting
at least as far back as the Crusades, but indeed continuing today. Even in
the US there are Christians that use their religious beliefs as an excuse
to kill. These are extremists, whose actions counter the teachings of Christ and
they have little to do with the majority of Christians.

Unfortunately, because most of us know little of Islam, we hear the extremists
or fundamentalist spout off and believe that their beliefs are shared by all
Muslims. From http://www.islam-guide.com:

What Does Islam Say about Terrorism?

Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism.

The act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale
destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the
Muslims. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims. If
an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of
violating the laws of Islam.



The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children, and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}

And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall
not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}

Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire.

He once listed murder as the second of the major sins, and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.}

Christian groups ???

Like those who bomb abortion clinics, killing abortion doctors
because they believe it is wrong to kill.

And one of the local talk stations had on a minister who kept saying that
it was the Christian duty to kill all homosexuals.

These are extremist positions held by the majority of Christians, even
those who oppose abortions and homosexuality.

KG, even though you have read about Islam, you are wrong. These acts have absolutely nothing to do with Christian groups.

You misunderstand. A Muslim extremist has little in common with the average Muslim, just
as the Christian extremist as little in common with the average Christian. Their willingness
to use violence to achieve their goals gives them more in common with each other.

When I hear people beating up Arabs (Muslim & Christian) lumping them together
with the terrorists, I have a problem. Islam is not a religion of hatred as has been
represented by some posters here. At least not according to the majority of the
practitioners.

Originally posted by KG
You misunderstand. A Muslim extremist has little in common with the average Muslim, just
as the Christian extremist as little in common with the average Christian. Their willingness
to use violence to achieve their goals gives them more in common with each other.

When I hear people beating up Arabs (Muslim & Christian) lumping them together
with the terrorists, I have a problem. Islam is not a religion of hatred as has been
represented by some posters here.

I agree, however, you are implying that these attackers were Christian extremists?

All the way around, these attackers were Muslim extremists!

No no no.

Just that people are lumping all Muslims together as though their
religion tells them to kill all Americans. That is simply not true.

And I wanted to point out that there are Christian groups that are
very violent, totally counter to the teachings of Christ. You can't
lump people together like that.


We can't paint all Muslims as terrorists because of the actions of a few any more than we can paint all Christians as terrorists because of the actions of a few. Yet from some posts on this
board, at least some people are doing so (condemning all Muslims).

I personally dislike ALL religions because throughout history, religion has caused a lot more grief, suffering, and oppression than not.

What's up, :(

Don't peg me as a person lumping all Muslims together. That is not what I was doing. I am not over simplifying a religion and I was not speaking of all Muslims. I was specifically addressing the Muslims who follow the Jihad of the sword. Those would have been the hijackers and other like them.

According to the mainstream Muslim beliefs, choice of religion is not optional. Islamic law states that all nations must surrender to Islamic rule, if not its faith. The mainstream believers see the world as black and white. Islamic, and non-Islamic. The U.S. is the most influential of all the non-Islamic nations, which makes the U.S. the "supreme target of attack" for those who have chosen the jihad of the sword over the other jihads associated with the faith.

About 5% of Muslims worldwide accept the jihad of the sword at some point in their life, and only a very small percentage of those actually believe that killing those who are not of the faith is condoned by Allah.

The jihad is an add-on extension of the "five pillars of faith." In Arabic, jihad means "struggle" or "to exhaust one's effort." Most Muslims choose the jihad of education, actively preaching to those who are not of the faith.

Why do you think I said we could not just find the people we are after. They are mixed in with allot of innocent people. But the governments that harbor these people knowingly should be responsible for turning them over to us as a preventative measure in future and for justice as of now or else extreme **** like what has happened will continue to occur. :(

Peace
Wise1

I have another theory...


This was, in part, an attempt to destroy the sense of community within the world.

Right now I hear reports of attacks on Muslims for no other reason than they happen to be badged the same as the suspected terrorists. According to other posts there's been attacks in America, Australia and I hear on the news here in the UK we have the same happening here too. Right now I would settle for someone bombing the BNP headquarters (British Nationalist Party - roughly translated as hate group willing to stir up nothing but trouble because they can't accept responsibility for and work to overcome their own failings).

Let's be honest we're even attacking each other on this forum.

Seems like they're being pretty effective if you ask me.


Oh and one final point. The words being used by our worlds leaders in relation to "seeking out and destroying terrorism everywhere". If you take that literally then that means fundamentalists of all religions and causes willing to kill are soon to be more hunted than they've ever been.

If this is the case:

"This was, in part, an attempt to destroy the sense of community within the world. "

Boy did it backfire. It is drawing us closer.

Originally posted by RunOfTheMill
Ben Laden constantly says that it is their duty to kill americans, because they are evil and impure.
I read this on CNN.

Has no-one ever told you not to believe everything you are told by the media?!

Also, on a purely logical sense, whoever it was who did it (and remember, we still don't *know* who it was, we are still just speculating) would not spend time, resorces (both in $s and loyal supporters) etc just for the fun of it.

In the same way that Bush etc are saying that destroying building etc will not destroy "american ideals", also killing the purpritrators will not destroy thier ideals! The only outcome I can see is that with every killing, the side which looses people will feel more and more bitter towards the other, unless someone tries to find solutions to violence, without resorting to violence.

You cannot stop killing by killing.

Originally posted by wise1
should be responsible for turning them over to us as a preventative measure in future and for justice as of now

What is this?! Are you honestly saying that you think people should be "turned over" to *your* authority? What makes the US or any other country have the right to accuse people of crimes that they *might* commit?!

If anything, that sounds to me like exactly what you accuse certial Muslim sects of doing: Imposing your beliefs on others because *you* think they are better!

As a last side note, I find it more than a bit of a surprise to find that goverments are usinf similar language ("sloidarity in the face of terrorism" etc) as the "alternative media" uses when talking about assults on people by goverments etc (Genoa, Barcelona....)

Just my $2 (due to inflation because of money management in governments etc)

Douglas

madness need no reason ...

I think that the reason was that the terrorists attacked the WTC is because what is the first thing you think about when you think of NYC. You think of the 2 towers lined up right next to each other on the skyline of NYC. They wanted to attack America's image.

They also wanted to find a place that would kill the most people and the WTC employied about 50,000 people. I don't think you could find more people working at the same place.

Finally they wanted to attack something that represented the modern United States which would be the financial industry and that why they hoped it would put the US ecomey in the hole. That is why I think what the terrorist did what they did.

over 300 firefighters, including the 2 highest ranking firemen in
uniform, a whole fire company, 16 men climbed on ladder
truck #54, known as the "Pride of Midtown", to respond to the
first alarm of the fire in WTC tower #1. This fire company and
others responded with double the usual number of men because
the alarm call came in around the time of a shift change.
None of the 16 firefighters from the "Pride of Midtown" ladder
truck have reported back to their firestation. They are all lost,
as well as 40 other entire fire companies. There were 11,500
firefighters in the 5 boroughs of NYC and this loss is greater than
the combined total of all losses in NYFD history ! More than
70 police officers, including NYPD and Port Authority police
officers are missing.

2 Corporations with offices in the WTC each lost nearly 700
people. There has been too much focus on buildings, typified by
Bush declaring at the death scene downtown today that "we
will get those who "knocked down these buildings"

Although I live here where this tragedy happened and I feel a
great sense of sorrow and loss, I have tried to focus on the
human loss and not on the collateral damage. I think that the
economy was already in a downward spiral that would take
several more years to bottom out before this tragedy.

We have just begun to lose. NYC was a place that people from
all over the world wanted to visit, work in, and live in. It was a
place where people enjoyed freedoms and rights to a much
greater extent than are permitted in many other areas of the
world. We will give up much of that freedom and those rights as
we move forward. Our government will mete out 500,000
casualties in response to our 5,000 dead. We will live behind
a curtain of tight security that is now experienced mainly at
airports and courthouses.

We react so far with flag waving patriotism and a promise to
end terrorism. Death and misery will play prominently in our
future. Those who died so suddenly in the U.S. this week will
still be dead. We will lose more people like the firefighters and
police that we lost this week as our President leads us into a
war against terrorism. There is no possibilty that there is
anything to "win" that is worth the price of more American lives.

This site has offered an opportunity for people from all over the
world of different religions, cultures, and nationalities to exchange ideas and expertise. In the dark days ahead, I hope
that we can all continue to see each other as people who are
interested in the internet and web hosting. Strong religious and
nationalistic opinions and attitudes will strain relationships here
if we lose sight of what motivated us to first participate here
at webhostingtalk . All members must try hard to prevent
politics, nationalism, and religion from intruding on us here.