http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/11/20/turkey.blast/index.html

It's becoming more then in Israel... heh

Hello,

Our European head office is located in Istanbul, pretty close to the commerce district called Levent where the attack occured and this is a very sad day for the Turkish Nation as well as all the Nations who have been figthing against terrorizm since day 1.

The attack occured on 2 locations with 2 suidice bomb cars, one just outside the English Embassy in Taksim, Istanbul and the other just infront of HSBC Headquarters in Levent, Istanbul.

The bombs are assumed to be once again attacks of El Kaide towards locations and buildings linked to England and since the attack on the English Consulate, the head consulate Roger Short is missing and can not be contacted to confirm his location or status.

I would like to take this oppurtunity to condemn all terrorizm attacks around the world towards any nation, religion or race. I just hope that humanity can learn to live in peace one day.

Regards,

Just in case everybody hasn't followed the link, these are the taregets and figures:

25 Dead [17 at the consulate]
300-390 Injured

Targets >> The UK Consulate & HSBC [Hong Kong & Shanghai Bank Corporation i think the definition is right] HSBC is a London based multi national Bank.

This the first major attack on a British overseas government asset by terrorists since Tanzania at the time of the Nairobi US embassy bombing.

Some bad news, the British Consul General is currently missing along with 3 other consulate personnel.

For more info >> http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1111970,00.html

"The enemy of my eneymy is my friend", that quote is now more accurate than ever before.This attack was aimed directly at the British, i wonder if this will impact the turnout of those protesters, dear dear.

Al Quaeda still seems to be going for the softer targets with no mainland attacks on the UK or the US. This will hopefully help us prevent more attacks and focusing our resources.

I'm regular flying via Istanbul to the world (Just love Turkish Airlines) anyway, It's becoming scary to fly there, and many times, of course I go to Istanbul for a weekend or for some work days, every month or so.

I hope it will get better there...

Well, Ankara seems to be left well alone so far. It is good job that they didn't do this only a month or two ago when there were thousands of English citizens over there for the match against Turkey for Euro 2004. That would have been much much worse for the Turkins and us.

HSBC has just released a statement saying that with deep regret they must confirm that HSBC employees are among the dead. I am not awware whether these are British or not.

Yes, Ankara seems to be fine now, and I hope it will stay fine, I need to be there next week, but when I think of it, It's not scary, I live in Israel, and we live it actually...

Very Bad to hear :(

As you guys know i started a thread like this a while ago.
This is a sad day in Istanbul as many people are dying now.

Istanbul has turned to HELL

Don't exegirate mate! It's not HELL! Buddy, if that's your image, so every place there is one bombing, It's an hell... sheesh!

You should start thinking different

Maybe you opened a thread about the other bombing, on Saterday, or the other one... did you open for this one? the latest bombing?

No , i didn't start a thread about this bombing.
Yes , it's not hell but it's like hell.
I know that because I'm living in Istanbul .

Well I visit Istanbul Monthly, and frankly, I live in Tel Aviv, you can't compare mate :)

If you call this 3 bombing hell, so TLV is Super Hell.

I actually know Ankara and Istanbul better then Haifa and Tel Aviv, if you live near Swissotel (In Sisly also Besiktas [Somewhere there]), Also near the new Crown Plaza (not so new...) we can meet sometime! in Akmarkez or eat in Tike (if you know the restaurant)

Let me know :)

Sure , that would be nice.
Yes, I'm not comparing them. I know there are many other countries which can be called "Super Hell" . I know here and i call it so :)

Before you visit Istanbul drop me a pm and I'll get to you or I can give you my cellphone so you can call .
I live near Swissotel. (I live in Besiktas)
I'm sure we can arrange something.

It never stops to amaze me how stupid terrorist groups are!

They have it in for us (Isreal) but what the hell do they need to start trouble with other countries.

They couldn't get us for around 70 years, and they start a fight with more people.

I just wonder how much the world will take of this.

Its sad that this happend and I'm sorry for the people that got hurt.

But there might be an upshot to this, however strange it may sound.

If they start attacking more and more countries then maybe the UN will wake up and do something about it.

then again, the UN waking up is not likely. :(

Anyway, I got off topic here. sorry.

Yep that's would be great, before my next visit in Istanbul, I'll be sure to drop a PM :)

Interior Minister statement >> THese were two car bombs we can now confirm. The death toll i now 26 and injuries are 450 approx.

The UK Consulate Chaplin has confirmed that the Consul General Roger Short died in the attack.

I spent my last holiday in Istanbul, and I have been near this HSBC bank HQ...brrrrrrrr scary even if it's it was few months ago. :(

right....there goes my holiday to turkey too:(

Origin of "Istanbul"

"Eis tin polin", which means 'in/to the city' in Greek.

Constantinoupolis (Constantinople) was called "Poli" (city) affectionately in the Byzantine times.

Ok, British fatalaties from the consulate bombing is now up to 14 according to the AFP news agency. We [UK] will not shun our responsibility to stand firm in the face of terrorism, well i hope we don't, that would be a tragedy. To top it off i have to watch these damned protests.

I'm gonna have to something pro active about this, hmm

It was bound to happen. Turkey so far had the luxury of choosing sides and times of action. Remember the oriental style haggling for the Imzirlik base to be used by US forces against Iraq? They wanted $30 billion!

The sad part is that Istanbul is densely populated and such bombing can claim a lot of civilian lives.

I don't see a problem with Turkey and how they handled that, Turkey was a target of opportunity. In the same way as Bali, the real target were coalition interests and member sttes. In Bali, it was the Aussies and the UK and the West but mainly Australia, here it was the British.

They [Al Quaeda/affiliated groups] had people sympatheitc to their cause in Turkey and chose to use them.

What I mean is, it's easy to play "neutral" (read: opportunistic) when the problem is far away. When it hits home, things change.

I don't see a problem with Turkey and how they handled that, Turkey was a target of opportunity. In the same way as Bali, the real target were coalition interests and member sttes. In Bali, it was the Aussies and the UK and the West but mainly Australia, here it was the British.

They [Al Quaeda/affiliated groups] had people sympatheitc to their cause in Turkey and chose to use them.

Exactly. The sad thing is, until the day comes when America and Israel stop their incredibily bullying behaviour, these attacks will never stop.

It's a sad sad viscious cycle.

en2, i think you are way off the mark there, these grups [Al Quaeda rarely use the middle east peace process in there propaganda and tapes and videos, only when necessary; it isn't a main part of their manifesto.

Britain was attacked before Bush by Al Quaeda and it will happen again. You can't sit on your hands and hope it will work itself out.

They want an Islamic state; they want change in governments around the world. They kill and injure innocents, should we not try and bring the rule of law upon them and those who harbour them, or let them live to a ripe old age and die of natural causes??

Come on...

Today i was disgraced by the anti war mob on the streets of my home City. It only makes me angry to keep looking at them and listening. For instance, here is their light bulb moment, take all the troops out of Iraq and leave them to the wolves [ Bathits and Islamic Extremists]

I don’t agree with Bush on everything, especially things that affect the UK/innocents without reason but this War is just and right and necessary, even more so after today. Yes, Palestine needs to be dealt with but this can’t be left aloe. We will live in danger for many years and if we/i die, so be it because I will know it was in the name f what is right and just

This gives me an idea.

The West will never understand the mentality of the Eastern cultures, period. The current approach is just wrong. It can only get worse from here but thankfully the US has elections 1 year from now.

Hey Critic,

Americas reaction to Sept 11 could not possibly be worse. Instead of trying to mend their very dodgy foreign policies, they've just made them worse.

I disagree with terrorism (I'm Irish, have grown up around it), but I really do understand why these people are so angry.

Instead of just trying to kill each other, America should back off and try to be more understanding.

I'm not trying to have an argument here, I know we could disagree on this all day.

Understanding is required i cannot disagree, however we cannot just sit and wait for attacks. You have to be pro active with your military, intelligence as well as your diplomacy.

A Palestine state will not solve all of the problems and bringing democracy or increased participation to the middle east will have added dangers but it must be done, for one thing, the people want it.

That said , i would rather the UK and the US stop off in Zimbabwe on their way to dealing with all of that and take a look at Mugabe.

en2, i understand your position and as said agree that there are still errors in the foreign policy but...

lets say the coalition backs off and they still eep getting attacked, what then, do you still expect the UK/US to do nothing?

You have to remember that the UK was attacked by Al Quaeda before Bush, people were killed and raped before Bush in Iraq.

This is not all about the middle east peace process, these are two different ways that people think the world should exist. Would you rather have Islamic states with Sha'rea law all around the world. Where are the words and the protests for Mugabe and for N Korea , where are the thousands they pick and choose their battles as we have done.

You talk about US foreign policy, the French put billions into Iraq funding Saddam, what about that?

Now i don't intend to argue all day either as we do disagree in parts but maybe you could answer these points for me.

Sure, glad you don't want to argue either :D

Firstly, it was decades of abuse by America which has made this hatred so ingrained. It'll take decades for it to go away.

Americas current tactic clearly isn't working. Even look what they've done to Iraq. Sure, Saddam was insane, but where are the weapons of mass destruction? Again, America being the big bully.

[before I go any further: I like Americans and America, I just don't like American foreign policy]

Every country has problems. North Korea is not a nice country, but they don't really bother anyone else. Mugabe is not as crazy as people think. The whites took their land by force and didn't pay the blacks for it. So he's just taking it back. He's not doing anything the whites didn't do to his people. I don't think he should be in power though. Again, he's a bit mad.

Even my own country is at fault. We are supposed to be neutral, yet we let American planes refuel at our airports on the way to Iraq. That's messed up. If Al Quaeda attacked our airports I'd understand why.

Every country does bad things, but no one seems to be as good at being bad as the US.

Not sure if this has answered your points..! :)

Originally posted by Critic
Ok, British fatalaties from the consulate bombing is now up to 14 according to the AFP news agency. We [UK] will not shun our responsibility to stand firm in the face of terrorism, well i hope we don't, that would be a tragedy. To top it off i have to watch these damned protests.

I'm gonna have to something pro active about this, hmm



Step 1) Buy teargas grenades
Step 2) Find protestors
Step 3) Ambush
Step 4) Run like a bat out of hell

:D


On a more serious note; It does seem that soft targets are becoming the targets of choice for terrorists, which is sad because they're going after relief workers, government aide centers, civilians, etc ... and such is their MO.

I do hope the Brittish will continue to stand-up to these scumbags, and increase their involvement in our adventures.

As much as I hate to admit it; Bush is right about Iraq in regards to the terrorists. We have foreign terrorists running headfirst at us, instead of having to track down them down through mountain ranges. If only they could figure out a way to turn the tables, we would be able to make a big impact on the future of the War on Terrorism by showing that we can handle their subterfuge. Unfortunately, that has yet to happen.


/end derail

en2,let me see if i understand you, Mugabe isn't as bad as people think and as he is only doing what was done int he past it is ok or understandable. N Korea isn't a nice place but they don't bother us.

So as long as they just keep being inhumane within their own borders we should leave them well alone?

I would disagree that the current plan isn't working, uyes it could do with some more activity on the diplomatic front but look at the amount of anti coalition groups flooding to Iraq. With these careless attacks in Muslim populated areas and charging into a hail of bullets in Iraq, it is only a matter of time before middle east opinion will take a re think. This campaign will take many years but the fruits of our labour will be worth it or us and the world.

From my stand point Ireland is not at fault but i would say that, then again if they didn't use your airports the Brits would let them use Belfast or they would use extra fuel to get to the British Isles to re fuel. Something i would gladly support with current conditions.

If we all sat back and took the its not out problem atitude to global affairs, Europe would be one big Germany right now, the Falklands would've have been negotiated for and then lost and Africa, well that wouldn't be pretty and so on.

I can't understand this stance that if the UK or the US or the West in general might have been involved with in the past, that it cannot or has no right to go and try and fix things. On Mugabe and the whites and Blacks, this is not a race or colour issue, ever heard of Morgan Changari? No matter what has happened in the past, Mugabe has no right to do what he does now, if we decide to fix it we should be supported.

I think your every country does something wrong comment line was a bit of a cop out when it comes to the French but there we go.

You said earlier that you could understand why Al Quaeda is angry and why they do what they do, can you not do the same to our sid eof the fence. In Ireland you've experienced what terrorism is like, did you have understanding for the IRA in the same way, i doubt it.

Just to update that the death toll is now at 27.

Webworkz, you are right on the soft target thing, sinnce 9/11, from the top of my head we have had the following:

Bali Night Club
Jakarta Hilto Hotel
2 residential comppunds in Saudi Arabia
2 Synagogues in Turkey
Jewish Community Centre, Western Popular Hotel in Cassablanca in Algeria.
Today on a commercial Bank HSBC in Turkeyand a diplomatic consulate

If you look at that list, the days of the USS COLE attack in Yemen are long gone, at least that was a military asset. Now they seem to kill more muslims than ever , i really think that their PR dept is doing the coalition all the favours in the world at the minute.

Critic you're in the UK but you're not British, correct?

Oh yes definetely in the UK, and Yes i am British through and through, why do you ask?

Critic,

I do understand why the IRA did what they did - some would say they had no choice. Today they do have a choice and they would have no excuses if they were carrying out bombings.

Mugabe and the N. Korea issue: obviously there is a lot of messed up issues regarding both, but my point was that neither are messing with other countries - the US cannot seem to be able to stay out of other peoples affairs.

Regarding the German comment: you cannot compare a war like WWII etc. with what America is doing to the world today. If America really cared about human rights/whatever, they'd be attacking countries in Africa. It's only about $$$, power, greed.

Let's see what we agree on - innocent peoples lives being ruined because of angry people reacting to something is awful, and we both want it to stop. We just have different methods for it. I'm sure the best solution is somewhere in the middle.

en2, it probably is somewhere in between, somewhere ther is more diplomacy involved, before i sign off, i'll just clarify what i meant on a few points.

I didn't mean to compare the wars but what the possibility of doing nothing or staying reactive and not pro active for too long would be. If Britain and France while it could didn't make a stand in Europe and just said, oh well it isn't against us, it isn't within our borders so we will wait. That would've made things worse.

If we do nothing in the middle east and the Islamic Extremists disabled the region and governments fell, it would be like a huge Afghanistan which i agree was eft un touched for too long; there would be war lords and even more breaches of human rights or basic civil liberties. When we should and shouldn't react is not determined by the amount being affected but the cause. As i have said we might get it wrong and we might get it right but at least we do something. We shouldn't stay out of everything on the planet, if we did, the population would be much lower as who would keep others in check.

If i opened up the IRA can of worms, i'd be here too long.

That was a bit more than just clarifying points, oh well.

Originally posted by Critic

If we do nothing in the middle east and the Islamic Extremists disabled the region and governments fell, it would be like a huge Afghanistan which i agree was eft un touched for too long; there would be war lords and even more breaches of human rights or basic civil liberties. When we should and shouldn't react is not determined by the amount being affected but the cause. As i have said we might get it wrong and we might get it right but at least we do something. We shouldn't stay out of everything on the planet, if we did, the population would be much lower as who would keep others in check.


Please drop the pretense that the wests interference in the middle east has anything, but the tinyest part to do with human rights or civil liberties, the west or more particurlaly Britain, France and the US have only ever got involved in the middle east for three reasons :

- They have something we need, oil.

- Some of them have a lot of money and are great customers for our defence industries.

- Just like some groups of fundamentalist muslims in the middle east who believe Israel should be wiped from the face of the planet, we in the west (mainly in the US) have equally mad groups of zionists and fundamenalist christians who think Israel and the whole surronding area needs to be cleansed of muslims, non-believers etc.

Hello,

The latest confirmed numbers;

27 Casulties including Roger Short/English Consulate.

English foreign minister arrived in Turkey tonight and will meet with Turkish president & foreign minister.

Just a note to the poster who stated that Turkish government was unable to comprehend the seriousness of terrorist attacks after September 11 ; Turkey had been dealing with terrorizm for nearly 20 years and lost nearly 30.000 lives during this struggle with PKK & other terrorist groups which included Al Queda. It is the rest of the world including US who opened their eyes and realized the real dangers of terrorizm after September 11.

I just think it is time all the nations act together and take co-op preventive measures against terrorizm as these attacks may occur anywhere in the world as long as these terrorists are ready to commit suicide and kill themselves during the process.

Please drop the pretense that the wests interference in the middle east has anything, but the tinyest part to do with human rights or civil liberties, the west or more particurlaly Britain, France and the US have only ever got involved in the middle east for three reasons :

- They have something we need, oil.

- Some of them have a lot of money and are great customers for our defence industries.

- Just like some groups of fundamentalist muslims in the middle east who believe Israel should be wiped from the face of the planet, we in the west (mainly in the US) have equally mad groups of zionists and fundamenalist christians who think Israel and the whole surronding area needs to be cleansed of muslims, non-believers etc.

Bagpus, i'd like to point out that was one end of the spectrum, not necessarily how i view the situation as we would never let it get like that now. I don't think that at any time i have implied that the record of the west was whiter than whitebut if i have, it wasn't intended. In response to what you think, you are obviously opposed to where Blair and Bush are taking us? If i am not mistaken in a previous thread i'm sure you showed that you were partial to that point of view or one similar to the protesters today. If i am off the mark, my apologies.

I believe you are British Bagpus, what is your opinion on the attacks on British intersts in Istanbul?

I just think it is time all the nations act together and take co-op preventive measures against terrorizm as these attacks may occur anywhere in the world as long as these terrorists are ready to commit suicide and kill themselves during the process.

I totally agree and my nation as many years before stands ready to face this threat; unfortunately it appears that the Franco German axis has chosen one hell of a time to throw their weight around the political arena, this will make unity difficult but it is their choice. Al Quaeda and the like a global threat and the world needs to realise it, sadly the previous mentioned axis son't seem to think it is their problem right now. The attack in Turkey was madness for reasons i have already said in a previous post, more innocents killed, it only strengthens the cause of the Just.

Ok, some news just in, BBC now confirming that the Turkinsh are confirming that al Qaeda and the militant Islamic Great Eastern Raiders' Front, or IBDA-C, were jointly behind the attacks.

There is a statement but i can't find it uploaded anywhere but this is new.

New statement bt the FCO [Foreign and Commonwealth Office]

The Foreign Office warned British citizens against travel not only to Istanbul, but to all of the country's other major cities, including capital Ankara. They claim to have intelligence that suggests more attacks will take place in Turkey in the near future.

Extract from BBC <<

In the near future with the way things are going might mean within a week. If we get to the weekend, we are safe i think as the terorists prefer week days, more people either way not good for the Turkish. It could be a ploy and they do intend to attack Brits or US assets or interests but in another country like the mainland. We will see but it doesn't matter, our cause is Just and they are not.