Hi everybody,
i just discoverd a suck client which put child porn onto one of our servers. :angry: :angry: :angry: I need to know the following:
Is there a special place at the FBI who deals with this kind of things?
What's the legal implication for our company? (Our TOS states clearly that ONLY LEGAL ADULT content is allowed).
What if we going to denounce ALL the referers of him? (We checked and there are MANY sites linking to him with the same illegal content). :angry: :angry: :angry:
Urgent advice would be appreciated.

It's only child porn if the subjects involved are doing sexual activity. If they are just posing, I don't think under US law, it's considered child porn. I could be wrong though but I think I read it somewhere...

Originally posted by teck
It's only child porn if the subjects involved are doing sexual activity. If they are just posing, I don't think under US law, it's considered child porn. I could be wrong though but I think I read it somewhere...

I can send you one of the offending photos. Even a blind stupid snake would recognize that this is CP (CP=child porn).
Me and my wife we are very embarassed about this and on top of it one of our clients put this onto our server! :angry:

Originally posted by microsol


I can send you one of the offending photos. Even a blind stupid snake would recognize that this is CP (CP=child porn).
Me and my wife we are very embarassed about this and on top of it one of our clients put this onto our server! :angry:
LOL. . . .Then 'you'd' be guilty of distributing.
I'm pretty certain it's illegal (your original post)
But, where to go; what to do?? Better wait 'till someone gets here that knows.
Or call your local authorities and ask where to report child pornography.

The FBI does deal with this issue but I dont know which department. i would close the account so tht the files arent deleted by them and report it IMMEDIATLY! Im more than sure you will not have any problems, its like putting a landlord in jail becuase a tenant was selling drugs. Unless you were part of the activity or willingly turned your eye, law enforcemnet/the judicial branch will not pursue charges on you.

Originally posted by teck
It's only child porn if the subjects involved are doing sexual activity. If they are just posing, I don't think under US law, it's considered child porn. I could be wrong though but I think I read it somewhere...

It is not considered porn, but endangering the welfare of a minor. Either way, I would not have that site on our servers, and I would be calling the authorities to make them aware. They will usually step in pretty quickly on this type of stuff.

Hmm, did a little bit more investigation. Only some images from a topsite are hosted on our servers but it looks like there are more ISP's involved. For example: Wasn't somebody from Prohosters.com posting in these forums? If so, please contact me ASAP.

why don't you first turn him off and then report the authorities.

Originally posted by mahinder
why don't you first turn him off and then report the authorities.

I want this sucker down and all the related sites! :angry: This needs some investigation on my part to get evidence and i don't want to get him suspicious before he get's busted!

We discovered a link about 2 months ago on a website that was (!) hosted on our servers ...it linked to a website that contained lots, and i really mean lots of child pornography, not just nudity. We reported the website to the FBI and got a reply from them after about 4 days ( :rolleyes: ) telling us that they get about 400 reports each day, they cannot go after each one of them and mostly those people running the website are living in countries outside the U.S. or Canada where it is hard to 'trace' them down.

In short: They did not care about it and the website was still up about 6 weeks later.

:(

Originally posted by microsol
This needs some investigation on my part to get evidence and i don't want to get him suspicious before he get's busted!

Check your server log files, who accessed the ftp, pop3 for the account, etc. Then contact his ISP ...they should have logs of what files he uploaded/downloaded.

If you are unsure if you will get charged with anything, then maybe you should remove him and forget about it, or you can take the risk and see if something happens to you. Check this site out http://nolo.com/ it deals with internet illegal activities.

Originally posted by Kiwi
We discovered a link about 2 months ago on a website that was (!) hosted on our servers ...it linked to a website that contained lots, and i really mean lots of child pornography, not just nudity. We reported the website to the FBI and got a reply from them after about 4 days ( :rolleyes: ) telling us that they get about 400 reports each day, they cannot go after each one of them and mostly those people running the website are living in countries outside the U.S. or Canada where it is hard to 'trace' them down.

In short: They did not care about it and the website was still up about 6 weeks later.

:(

nobody cares until you flame the issue in public and there is strong media coverage behind that. i think you may not have time for this. so better solution is to turn him down or change some codes in his scripts :D .

Illegal content on server....

I am not positive, but I have dealt with a different but legal binding matter concerning medical data. When we discovered that someone was had posted medical info on one of the virtual sites, we were instructed to do the following:

1. Immediately archive all material.
2. Immediately preserve all server logs.
3. Immediately block all public access to illegal material.
4. Send offender copy of TOS stating your rights.
5. Block all access to the offender.
6. Inform appropriate authorties, local, state and federal.

In the case of child pornography, you may want to look at this:
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/detroit/crimes2.htm

If you need FBI asistance, contact your regional headquarters.

There is also information at:
http://www.missingkids.com/cybertip/

Also check out:
http://www.asacp.org/
http://www.asacp.org/reportsite.html

Originally posted by huck
Illegal content on server....

I am not positive, but I have dealt with a different but legal binding matter concerning medical data. When we discovered that someone was had posted medical info on one of the virtual sites, we were instructed to do the following:

1. Immediately archive all material.
2. Immediately preserve all server logs.
3. Immediately block all public access to illegal material.
4. Send offender copy of TOS stating your rights.
5. Block all access to the offender.
6. Inform appropriate authorties, local, state and federal.

In the case of child pornography, you may want to look at this:
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/detroit/crimes2.htm

If you need FBI asistance, contact your regional headquarters.

There is also information at:
http://www.missingkids.com/cybertip/

he already said he contacted FBI but received negative response against it. i think he should follow step 1 to 6 and then . . . ?

If you have a lawyer, call him now. If not get one now, this is very serious matter. You need representation now. The lawyer can give advice. A web host is not qualified to give advice on this matter.

I have been in the adult industry for 15years and plan to be here for another 25years. So take my advice or not its your freedom on the line.....

Don't wait another minute...........................

Give www.reportchildporn.com a bash.

They've also got a very detailed definition of child porn.

With Illegal content like child porn. They are very likely to pay you with a fake credit card as well. Watch out if someone do a charge back in a month time.

Originally posted by huck
[B]
1. Immediately archive all material.
2. Immediately preserve all server logs.


He's got 78MB server logs in 18 days!

I think it goes like this.. as soon as the host becomes aware of any illegal activities, public access must be stopped to the site, if it's not stopped and you are aware of the issue you then become liable as well. It sounds as though you discovered it and have immediately gone for help on what to do, I don't think you'd be held liable as you had no prior knowledge. Save everything you can as suggested above and don't give up on searching for someone who will listen, file all the complaints you can. These children are someone's kids and everything that can be done to stop it should be done. Good luck with it.

Any photography that contains a child's *private* parts is considered pornography -- even a childs bare bottom can be considered child pornography.

I've seen innocent people that have taken pictures of their children in the bathtub and had their film developed over at Walmart be hauled off to jail for something innocent...

Check out: http://www.intergov.org -- They have a Child Safety center there -- http://www.icc-911.com/

The work with local authorities as well as international authorities and act as an Internet Government if you will.

I use to volunteered for them a while back -- but had some personal things to deal with and had to quit.

They'll help you out!

Tonya

I have a friend in both the ATF and the Justice department. From talking to them, it is the US Customs department that is charged with investigating child pornography on the web. There was a recent news story here in the US of a break up of a child pornography ring and it was the Customs Agents that were on the scene to make the arrests. You might try contacting you local Customs office to see if they can help. My suggestion, though is that you put that account in suspension without destroying the contents. Keep all the logs for evidence if needed.

Originally posted by rockergrrl
Any photography that contains a child's *private* parts is considered pornography -- even a childs bare bottom can be considered child pornography.

Although there have been cases of over zealous law enforcement officers chasing such cases, your statement is not entirely true. At least not in the US. I, personally, reported a site to the Customs Department that had a many pictures of 10 to 17 year old girls. All full frontal shots of nude girls. Customs response was that what they saw, though they did not like it, was not illegal because it did not involve minors in sex acts. The US child pornography law is specific in defining pornography as the display of childrens is sexually expicit situations. Nude photos of individual children apparently do not qualify as sexually explicit, much to my dismay.

microsol, I've got a question for you, you HAVE removed access to the site right? Your 78meg log file in 18days got me curious to that point.

As far as what you can do, what was said here is fairly correct, Customs does handle the child porn cases, but they also hardly give a rats ass about the websites, the only thing customs and the FBI give a crap about are the people who are making the pictures, while thats sad, its very true.

If you want to "get them" all you will be able to do is.

1) Call their ISP where they uploaded the files from

2) Contact the places where the pictures are being hosted

3) File a report with the FBI/Customs, if they get enough reports about this one site they may do something about it, but that will take time due to the fact that he's a host jumper and most hosts will terminate them and go on with their lives.

However, also as stated above it may be legal... while extremly sick and disgusting the pornography laws are very well laid out in the US.. and they are very specific..

I'm not sure why the fellow up there told you to get a lawer, as long as you've disabled the site and are storing the data as evidence should anyone look into it then you don't need a lawyer.

From your post it sounds as if you have been victimized by a certain russian based child porn ring. Does the directory structure read something like this:

index.html (reports site under construction)

(varying subdirs)/

(varying subdirs)/5-8g/
(varying subdirs)/5-8b/

(varying subdirs)/8-10g/
(varying subdirs)/8-10b/

html in directories refers to images on a server usually traced into russian cyberspace.

It is a common one that generally shows up at some point on large scale hosting platforms. Usually when you check on the credit card for the account holder, you'll find that it is stolen.

Unfortunately, I have worked with the FBI on several instances of these disturbing sites and other child porn sites. Basically, the steps that have been prescribed have been as follows:

1. Contact the FBI in your local area.
Ask for the agent in charge of
handling child pornography.

2. Make a copy of your FTP access logs (or
HTTP if they are using Frontpage or
other program that publishes the site
through the web).

3. Make a backup of the entire user directory
structure for that site.


4. Do NOT turn off the site until the FBI ask you
says it's okay or they will loose their
opportunity to track the individual since
they will know that they have been
discovered. This is very distateful, but
practical.

5. If you cannot reach an FBI agent to discuss this
issue, contact your local law enforcement
agency.


My experience has been that the FBI has been very responsive to these issues. On two occasions, the poor schmuck who had his credit card stolen to create the account hadn't even know that his credit card was missing yet.

quickly email me the EXACT link of his domain, and the server IP address of his site, I have some people who WILL take care of this (unlike the FBI), they will close down his site along with all the other sites connected to his, trust me on this. email me at jtnewmedia@yahoo.com OR catch me on AIM right now (my screen name is in my sig).

DO YOU NOT CARE!? THIS IS SERIOUS! YOU MUST EMAIL ME NOW OR CONTACT ME IN AIM OR MSN.

No offense JTNM but who are you?

a complete newb but a very experinced computer person, from programming to web design, to network managment, I do it all (although I don't know EVERYTHING, I just know a little bit of some things and alot of other things). I know people that could do things on the net and cause major chaos, but they choose not too, they choose to fight child porn and for everyones privacy on the net.

Originally posted by MilkMan
No offense JTNM but who are you?

I would like to know that as well.

Originally posted by JTNM
a complete newb but a very experinced computer person, from programming to web design, to network managment, I do it all (although I don't know EVERYTHING, I just know a little bit of some things and alot of other things). I know people that could do things on the net and cause major chaos, but they choose not too, they choose to fight child porn and for everyones privacy on the net.

wow!!!

WHT finally got its very own Net-Vigilante.

How exciting! And how modest, he chooses to wear his red cape and preserve order rather than "cause major chaos".

Only one suggestion though: don't mention your unique abilities in public forums because if the Russians find out how smart you are they may kidnap you.

Originally posted by brav0
Only one suggestion though: don't mention your unique abilities in public forums because if the Russians find out how smart you are they may kidnap you.

:emlaugh: :emlaugh: :emlaugh:

Relax JTNM. It's not like microsol sits on the net or this forum 24 hours a day.

Originally posted by valkaryn
[B]From your post it sounds as if you have been victimized by a certain russian based child porn ring.
Yes, looks like. At least i can trace it back to there and some other sites with fake domin names, all registered with fictious addresses all over the planet.
Does the directory structure read something like this:

index.html (reports site under construction)

(varying subdirs)/

(varying subdirs)/5-8g/
(varying subdirs)/5-8b/

(varying subdirs)/8-10g/
(varying subdirs)/8-10b/



No, it doesn't.

html in directories refers to images on a server usually traced into russian cyberspace.


I checked again. It seems that they place images all over the place. Meaning they signup for many accounts at many hosting companies and put just some images on each server. But like i said: Enough to generate 78MB of logs in 18 days.


It is a common one that generally shows up at some point on large scale hosting platforms. Usually when you check on the credit card for the account holder, you'll find that it is stolen.


To be honest, i was supicious about this order from the very first minute and did some checking without finding anything out.

Originally posted by JTNM
quickly email me the EXACT link of his domain, and the server IP address of his site, I have some people who WILL take care of this (unlike the FBI), they will close down his site along with all the other sites connected to his, trust me on this. email me at jtnewmedia@yahoo.com OR catch me on AIM right now (my screen name is in my sig).

Why should i send you the link of his IP and domain? I don't know you! What kind of people have you? What exactly are they going to do to shut his sites and all other related down? Blow my server? :D
You must understand that i can't just give any customer information out without knowing you, who you are and what you do.

well quick summary of some of my research tells me ...

albus dumbledore = harry potter character

Zalbag = a term or something used in the role playing game of final fantisy 4, might be term for a special character

j t = J**y T*i***n ( I placed the stars for their own security )

most likely speaks Spanish or portuguees

runs a consulting and hosting service

I could give more details BUT if people want to brag on how good they are they should know to give less details. LET the Law handle it.

-michael
and yes I'm very public

p.s. for the guy whom has the child por* site on his servers

go to the FBI and follow thier terms to the letter. keep your log files updated and backed up, confirm your computer system is up to date ( look out for hackers hitting you back ).

Back up your enite network incase you have problems.

-Michael

You people are really wierd, leave it up to the FBI? Yeah right. Good luck with them.

Oh and by the way, I am not spanish or mexican or portuguees. I am not runing any hosting services, or consulting. You also got my name wrong, and zalbag is from Final Fantasy Tactics (I hate people who can't get a game's name right).

Good luck microsol, I hope you do what's right, once again, good luck with the FBI (I don't think you REALLY know what's going on, but have fun).

Just because my email address has albus dumbledore does not mean anything. Maybe if you thought about it you would see that I use prof_albusdumbledore@hotmail.com for MSN. And not for email.

Originally posted by JTNM
You people are really wierd, leave it up to the FBI? Yeah right. Good luck with them.

Oh and by the way, I am not spanish or mexican or portuguees. I am not runing any hosting services, or consulting. You also got my name wrong, and zalbag is from Final Fantasy Tactics (I hate people who can't get a game's name right).

Good luck microsol, I hope you do what's right, once again, good luck with the FBI (I don't think you REALLY know what's going on, but have fun).

Just because my email address has albus dumbledore does not mean anything. Maybe if you thought about it you would see that I use prof_albusdumbledore@hotmail.com for MSN. And not for email.

Why don't you tell us then what's REALLY going on? It could be of much help for all of us, if you would know more details. EVERY hosting company get's hit once with this trouble, just a question of time. Please, just tell us. At least we can prevent next time and we know what to watch out for.

You people are really wierd, leave it up to the FBI? Yeah right. Good luck with them.

Do you think all of us are weird or just you ? Why should people who has info on you which is next to none give you information about their clients? Do you mind telling the people here who you are, what you do, what you can do and how you can handle the situation ?

Just because microsol does not reveal those info to you, you are acting as if everything is not going to be ok there if he goes through FBI. That's what I would interprete from your tone in your sentence.

I think JTNM might be referring to or part of a group of hackers who attack child porn and work w/ the FBI and other agencies. I read about them in wired I think ( http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,33869,00.html ). But then again I maybe wrong....

Originally posted by JTNM
Oh and by the way, I am not spanish or mexican or portuguees. I am not runing any hosting services, or consulting. You also got my name wrong, and zalbag is from Final Fantasy Tactics (I hate people who can't get a game's name right).


I said spoke, not anything of your background. And I glad that I'm wrong. we that enough of that.

What is more important is that the knowledge is being shared, and a way of LOSS PREVENTION

Anyway microsol is in a jam of a problem. This problem will utilize resources ( time & money ) that are better spent getting customers.

Some resources that will be used are:
legal ( costing cash )
time ( costing Customer Support )
servers ( you might have the equipment impounded, an outside chance but a risk that's there )

And the highest risk is that microsol will be placed in the firing line of counter attact by the porn people. If you care more information about this part take a look at what some spammers are doing to those that are countering them.


What microsol should do is:

Request from the poster valkaryn a refferal. valkaryn would contact the local FBI about what is needed and get a refferal to the local FBI office where microsol could contact FBI using the last agent as the refferal. This way he/she could get the matter resolved quickly ( or as per ordained ) by the FBI. We all know that a refferal gets a faster response.

Also we could then post the question to the FBI of what is the proper policy for a web hosting company to follow and have their reply posted here on the board.

I wish microsol good luck, speed and results that are in his favor.

-michael

That's in interesting article here (http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/zeran/81014.htm). Not exactly the same case but indeed very interesting.