This poll is in response to the new policies implemented recently (read here (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=204203&perpage=15)). Some members feel that the Community Advisor Team (CAT) should be selected by the community at large. However, it was the moderators decision that they should choose the team.

So let's find out what the community actually wants :). Feel free to vote and discuss and please keep it civil ;).

Who cares what the community wants? This ain't no democracy.

I disagree hostpath. This is more of a "forced democracy". Without the members, the mods, admins and owners have nothing more then a liability.

Hmm... four Community Leaders are on, four votes for the mods... it's a 'spiracy :D

Being a realist and not an idealist, I'd have to reply flatly: No it's not. But certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion. No problem with that!

Well, you can now make that 5 votes for the mods, counting mine.

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Being a realist and not an idealist, I'd have to reply flatly: No it's not. But certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion. No problem with that!

To each their own :). I consider the fact that without the members WHT is nothing a democracy of sorts. We have the freedom to leave and the freedom to express our opinion... I'm trying to work on the freedom to actually have a say in the community instead of a few "friends".

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Well, you can now make that 5 votes for the mods, counting mine.

Hey, if the community ends up wanting the mods to run it then that's fine... I just want to know what the community wants... I'll assume the mods will get a few "bonus" votes from people that don't like me (maybe more then a few ;)), but oh well :D.

I do find it interesting that previously there was 1 "I don't care" vote that suddenly became a vote for the mods.

Originally posted by comphosting
I'm trying to work on the freedom to actually have a say in the community instead of a few "friends".

So you actually, honestly believe the outcome of this poll will influence the selection process...

Interesting!

Originally posted by hostpath.com
So you actually, honestly believe the outcome of this poll will influence the selection process...

Interesting!

Not neccesarily, but if it does turn out in favor of the community vote and that means nothing then hopefully it will be a clue to the iNet that WHT has turned into an oligarchy that needs to be fixed.

Moderstors can also change the result of this poll :D

I'm really not sure I understand what the fuss is about.

Logisitically, I don't know how the process of picking members for CAT could have been left to the general membership. There are so many hidden agendas, grudges, self-serving interests, etc, how could it possibly have been a fair and unbiased process? When they pick new moderators, they make their own decisions on that, right? Why would this be any different?

CAT is simply an advisory group. They have no say on any final decisions for site policy. What's wrong with having a group of members (from diverse backgrounds) throwing their 2 cents in on how to improve this community? How on earth could anyone see fault in that?

Vito

Originally posted by comphosting
Not neccesarily, but if it does turn out in favor of the community vote and that means nothing then hopefully it will be a clue to the iNet that WHT has turned into an oligarchy that needs to be fixed.

I think that would be absolutely fair, the very minute that every member of the WHT community starts kicking in every month to cover the cost of WHT operations. Until then, regardless of the outcome, I say: mods ahoy!

Anyhow, that's just one man's opinion. No more or less valuable than yours (or anyone else's -- except the mods, of course!)...

Originally posted by comphosting
To each their own :). I consider the fact that without the members WHT is nothing a democracy of sorts. We have the freedom to leave and the freedom to express our opinion... I'm trying to work on the freedom to actually have a say in the community instead of a few "friends".



Then start paying some of the community's bills. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by vito
Logisitically, I don't know how the process of picking members for CAT could have been left to the general membership. There are so many hidden agendas, grudges, self-serving interests, etc, how could it possibly have been a fair and unbiased process?

Personally, I know that at least some of the moderators have personal grudges, so how would it be different in that respect?

When they pick new moderators, they make their own decisions on that, right? Why would this be any different?

This is different because the moderators are basically picking people they happen to like, and therefore will listen to. The description of the advisors purpose stated they are "respected" members... well what gives 5 mods the right to decide who the entire community respects?

CAT is simply an advisory group. They have no say on any final decisions for site policy. What's wrong with having a group of members (from diverse backgrounds) throwing their 2 cents in on how to improve this community? How on earth could anyone see fault in that?

The only fault I see, is that the mods have decided someone elses two cents are worth more then my, only because they think so, and I call that crap. I like the idea of the CAT... I don't like the idea of the mods deciding who I respect and whose opinion I value.

I think that would be absolutely fair, the very minute that every member of the WHT community starts kicking in every month to cover the cost of WHT operations. Until then, regardless of the outcome, I say: mods ahoy!

Then start paying some of the community's bills.

I am helping pay the bill! Every time I look at an add or click another link so a new advertisement pops up. That's what you don't understand... it's the community that IS paying WHT's bill.

You're coming to a web site that you enjoy visiting, and in return for viewing the web site, you are subjected to advertisements.

It has nothing to do with you paying WHT's bill.

Now, ask to help pay the bandwidth bills and maybe you'll pull some more clout in the day to day on-goings here.

Originally posted by webworkz
You're coming to a web site that you enjoy visiting, and in return for viewing the web site, you are subjected to advertisements.

It has nothing to do with you paying WHT's bill.

Now, ask to help pay the bandwidth bills and maybe you'll pull some more clout in the day to day on-goings here.

You're incorrect... we are WHT's commodity. Without us WHT is worthless and therefore the community is paying WHT's bill.

I dunno I can think of a few commodities that WHT can do without.

They're running a business.

They make money from advertising.

You are a customer.

You are not an owner, partner, moderator, or even advisor.

Get over it.

When you are the owner of a highly successful message board, you will be in the position to call the shots.

That's all there is to it.

Originally posted by webworkz
They're running a business.

They make money from advertising.

Hmm... I should start a business that makes money and doesn't pay the staff.

You are a customer.

cus·tom·er
1. One that buys goods or services.

com·mod·i·ty
3. Advantage; benefit.

What am I now?

You are not an owner, partner, moderator, or even advisor.

Get over it.

When you are the owner of a highly successful message board, you will be in the position to call the shots.

That's all there is to it.

You should probably see about a Prozac prescription. The most important part of any community is feedback from that community. I'd highly recommend that you relax a bit. If you don't like me having an opinion... go elsewhere :).

Can't we all just get along?

If everyone got to vote on who was in CAT, it would take forever. Besides, what's the problem with having a group of people discussing the very issues everyone brings up?

Originally posted by comphosting
Hmm... I should start a business that makes money and doesn't pay the staff.


Actually, I believe the moderators do get a small paycheck for their time. Not to mention the fact that there are many companies out there who make money off of posting reviews/articles that people write and send them for free.

So, yes; maybe you should invest some time into starting a business that makes money without paying the staff.


cus·tom·er
1. One that buys goods or services.

com·mod·i·ty
3. Advantage; benefit.

What am I now?




I'll refrain from mocking you here.



You should probably see about a Prozac prescription. The most important part of any community is feedback from that community. I'd highly recommend that you relax a bit. If you don't like me having an opinion... go elsewhere :).


Yes, get into a debate with someone and invalidate your point of view by telling people that they need Prozac, and that they should leave, and then cover it up with that little smilie face at the end. Ah, sweet lady irony.


As for going elsewhere; again, when you own WHT; feel free to tell me that I shouldn't/can't post here.


Oh, and before I forget: the poll speaks for itself. 75% of the voters disagree with you. So, there's your feedback.

Personally, I don't see what the debate is here. Sure, there's a couple that I've had a disagreement with in the past, but nobody's ever going to get along 100% with EVERYONE, now are we?

There are valid points here on BOTH sides:
A> This aint a democracy, forget about it. There's no such thing as a "forced democracy", it's just not going to happen.
WHT is a resource run by individuals. Those individuals are (usually) chosen by one person (or group of people), and those individuals usually bear the burden of running a place like this quite well. In most cases, I'd say that this was done here.

B> Without the users, this place wouldn't be anything but a domain name, vbulletin license and board. That's it. PLENTY of others have tried this before, but I don't think (could be wrong) that none has stood this long. What makes this place great? The fact that it's a community resource, and that it's actually run pretty well. That's pretty much it. The users ARE good, but, they don't pay the bills.

Who should choose the staff? The person that pays the bills, end of story.
That person has earned the right to choose staff for his (or her) bulletin board. It has nothing to do with moderators, etc. It has ALL to do with one person paying the bills , nothing else. If THAT person decides "hey, let's let the moderators choose themselves", well, as insane as that would be, that's his (or her) choice.

Originally posted by webworkz
Actually, I believe the moderators do get a small paycheck for their time. Not to mention the fact that there are many companies out there who make money off of posting reviews/articles that people write and send them for free.

So, yes; maybe you should invest some time into starting a business that makes money without paying the staff.

I won't even bother responding to this...

Originally posted by webworkz
I'll refrain from mocking you here.

Probably a good idea... considering I quoted the dictionary. Furthermore, mocking would be considered flaming, which I believe is a banning offense.

[QUOTE]Yes, get into a debate with someone and invalidate your point of view by telling people that they need Prozac, and that they should leave, and then cover it up with that little smilie face at the end. Ah, sweet lady irony.

Yeah... how did telling you to take Prozac invalidate my point? My point was, you seemed to be getting a bit upset there. I'm assuming it's a personally issue, or a disagreement with me. However, your comment about "mocking me" only showed that you had to resort to straw man fallacies to prove your point.

In case you didn't know, the example you are giving is not irony. I'd highly recommend reading up on definitions as you seem to be confusing some.

As for going elsewhere; again, when you own WHT; feel free to tell me that I shouldn't/can't post here.

Hmm... I don't recall saying you shouldn't or can't post here. I said if you didn't like my opinion you should move on... do you normally place words into others mouths or is this for my benefit?

Oh, and before I forget: the poll speaks for itself. 75% of the voters disagree with you. So, there's your feedback.

Hmm... I tend to give polls more then an hour to vote on... That being said it's down to 65% now... if the community disagrees, that's great, I have no problem being in the minority.


Excellent post Wolfstream... this attempt is to see primarily what the community wants... if they want the mods to decide, I'll stand by that decision :).

I'm going to go ahead and be the bigger man here, and leave this thread alone.

Originally posted by webworkz
Actually, I believe the moderators do get a small paycheck for their time . . .
What is your source for that information?

Originally posted by webworkz
I'm going to go ahead and be the bigger man here, and leave this thread alone.

Actually, you started with a snide comment and continued to bury yourself deeper, but using threats instead of factual information to counter my points... and as Aussie Bob pointed out, failed to site your source that mods make a dime... I'd say leaving this thread alone would be in your best interest.

I think it's ok. After some more thinking, I'm ok with the idea of a CAT forum now. I also think that the current mods should select participants etc. It's not a beauty contest, so this one's best handled by the mods.

At first I was a bit put out :eek: because I post a fair bit into the Suggestions forum, and I felt that this current forum was being devalued, by the need for another hidden Suggestions forum. The fact that the CAT forum was also hidden, just erked me the wrong way at first too.

But I can now see the merit in a small focussed group. Maybe they can hash out some of the suggestions that are made in the open Suggestions forum? I certianly don't mind them doing all the hard slogs. :D

comphosting, how would you propose that the community choose the CATs? People have a hard time discussing minor changes here without at least 20% of the participants getting upset about something someone else said. So can you imagine how much fur would start flying if we made this suggestion to the community in general? Think about it.

The idea started out as a seed which we could have nurtured or could have left as just a seed. We (as a group) thought it was a good idea to try and if it didn't work out, not much was lost.

So once we decided to try it, we all made suggestions of certain members who could discuss issues without getting hot under the collar and built it from there. There was a lot of discussion before the forum was even formed so it wasn't a spur of the moment decision.

There are bound to many members who are upset that they haven't been included - yet, but as stated in the thread in feedback, we add more as they are suggested/recommended.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
What is your source for that information?


I believe I saw Prohacker mention that the new owner doubled the moderators payout, which I took to mean that they do indeed get a small paycheck.

I could be wrong, which is why I said:

Actually, I believe the moderators do get a small paycheck for their time.



comphosting: You just can't let it go ...

I consider myself a customer of WHT. They are providing me with a service. Should I ever decide that I don't like the service, I will go elsewhere. Therefore, I consider myself a customer. Quoting the dictionary doesn't make you right.

As for "using threats instead of factual information" ... :confused:

As for irony, I'll save you the trip to dictionary.com ...

"3: Poignantly contrary to what was expected or intended"

I consider putting a smilie face after an insulting, childish paragraph to be "Poignantly contrary to what was expected".

I believe that the moderators should determine who works with them. Although this forum may seem like a democratic set up, there is an HR department to many things when it comes to employment whether it be volunteer or pay.

Besides, these moderators are the ones receiving submissions for interest of people wanting to work with them as well as private information that should not be distributed to a third party.

Many times, the community could vote based off of popularity and not experience, commitment and those who are simply conversative spectators.

If I remember that post correctly he was joking that their pay rates of $0 got doubled.. to $0. ;)

Originally posted by akashik
If I remember that post correctly he was joking that their pay rates of $0 got doubled.. to $0. ;)


Should've figured that ... that's Prohacker for ya. :)

The community leaders do not get paid. 'nuff said. :)

Originally posted by sanjiv
The community leaders do not get paid. 'nuff said. :)

We've established that. :)

Originally posted by sanjiv
The community leaders do not get paid. 'nuff said. :)
SUUUUURE you do;)
You just get paid in ways that most wouldn't expect. I mean, dealing with ALL those wonderful people who don't want to obey the rules. Your payment is email, lots and lots of email, from your very close and personal friends that don't like following rules. :D

Originally posted by akashik
If I remember that post correctly he was joking that their pay rates of $0 got doubled.. to $0. ;)

$00 ? ;)

Originally posted by wolfstream
SUUUUURE you do;)
You just get paid in ways that most wouldn't expect. I mean, dealing with ALL those wonderful people who don't want to obey the rules. Your payment is email, lots and lots of email, from your very close and personal friends that don't like following rules. :D

How could i forget? :blush:

Well, we don't get payment in terms of material items. That should narrow it down. :)

I voted for the Moderators. Members would turn it in to a popularity contest like the MOTM seems to be .....

Moderators know what/who to look for over memebers because they see who is active and reporting and what not.

There is a lot of different parts in building a community, especially if it's a successful one. I think WHT is a successful community. It doesn't matter who pays the bill. It matters who posts.
Most communities have one or more sub-groups. Most sub-groups are created by natural selection. People with a common goal or idea. People who get along and who can discuss even difficult issues without starting to yell at each other. CAT is an advisory group with people who can give advice and start new ideas. The ideas can be discussed without 20 people getting in and breaking up the discussion with "I don't like that"-comments. People can agree or disagree, but they should be civil about it.

Being chosen for CAT is not a privilege - it's a responsibility.

Originally posted by webworkz
I believe I saw Prohacker mention that the new owner doubled the moderators payout, which I took to mean that they do indeed get a small paycheck . . .
Prohacker has a pretty twisted sense of humour :dgrin: and was just kidding.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Prohacker has a pretty twisted sense of humour :dgrin: and was just kidding.


Guilty on both counts :D

And to be fair.. Regular members are choosing CATs.. Community Leaders picked the first bunch of CATs from there on out there have been many suggestions by CATs for furture CATs.

Typically if there are a few people that agree with that nomination the person is asked.

Originally posted by The Prohacker
Guilty on both counts :D
And damn quick on the post too. :D

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
And damn quick on the post too. :D

Cable internet does help in that.. To be a CL you need broadband.. Hard to download all those mailbombs without it :D

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
comphosting, how would you propose that the community choose the CATs? People have a hard time discussing minor changes here without at least 20% of the participants getting upset about something someone else said. So can you imagine how much fur would start flying if we made this suggestion to the community in general? Think about it.

The exact same way that we do MOTM... why is that so difficult? It's pretty fair across the board I think, even if you had the community do nominations and the mods had the final vote, or vice versa at least you're including the community in the vote of Community Advisor.

The idea started out as a seed which we could have nurtured or could have left as just a seed. We (as a group) thought it was a good idea to try and if it didn't work out, not much was lost.

I still think it's an excellent idea, I just would have liked to have seen more community involvement in that decision... hell I would have been a bit happier if a list of participants would have been released, instead, you guys keep it a secret, like so many things at WHT unneccisarily are.

Again, I don't think the forum is a bad idea at all :).

comphosting: You just can't let it go ...

What is there to let go? Should I suddenly realize that your opinion is far more valid then mine and change it?

I consider myself a customer of WHT. They are providing me with a service. Should I ever decide that I don't like the service, I will go elsewhere. Therefore, I consider myself a customer. Quoting the dictionary doesn't make you right.

You are correct, quoting the dictionary doesn't make me right. In this case, the definition is pretty obvious so I consider myself right based on the dictionary definition.

As for irony, I'll save you the trip to dictionary.com ...

"3: Poignantly contrary to what was expected or intended"

I consider putting a smilie face after an insulting, childish paragraph to be "Poignantly contrary to what was expected".

Since the dictionary has been a running topic, I suggest you look up "joke" as it would better describe my... joke.

I won't reply to everyone but at least we're having a fairly civil discussion about it. At this point I seem to be in the minority, but at least this way we all know what the community wants, which was the point of the poll in the first place :D.

Given, "The moderators should choose" is currently just shy of 60%, with the closest result being less than 24%, and the following being "I don't care" do you feel this thread is finished comphosting?

I really think you're taking this all too seriously.

. . . hell I would have been a bit happier if a list of participants would have been released, instead, you guys keep it a secret, like so many things at WHT unneccisarily are.

Some members prefer to keep their identity private, so we respect that. If they wish to reveal that they're a member of CAT (a few have done so already), then we're perfectly fine with that.

It's a matter of privacy. We won't force CATs to reveal their identity.

I voted I Don't Care because well, I don't care. People get upset over anything. I have a couple small forums and I make the rules same should go for WHT and no you don't pay the bills by visitng you contribute to the community but you don't pay any bills seems like you have illusions of grandeur about the importance of the community.

This reminds me of my college days trying to get into Student Government as a non-greek when 30/36 of the members were greek. With that 'advisory board', to bring members into the group, there was an annual election by the student body and if there were openings that occuring during the year, the student government would go through any applications submitted throughout the year to fill vacant spots.

That is a similar situation to what is occuring here. Similar to the greek population typically being more tightly knit cliques or groups than the general populace, the crowd here seems similar as with most larger communities. If you use this as an example, with over 30k members here, this simulates the population of a college and with only a few 100 regular active participants, this simulates the greek population. Of those, there are several groups within those participants similar to different frats. When I was in student government, I noticed that almost 1/2 of the 36 members were members of 2 of the dozen or so fraternal groups on campus so basically, 2 small groups ran the show.

As for how members were brought into the group, the greek population was typically more active than the general student body which means more greek likely voted than non-greek and is probably why there were so many greek that were voted in compared to the percentage of the total student body. My guess is that the non-participating student body either didn't realize what affect these few people might have on their future, didn't know what was happening, or that they didn't care enough to cast their votes.

As an outsider to the greek population and a new transfer student with little track record, it took me a couple of trys to actually get in. I had to actually prove myself by serving as an officer within other campus groups before they would consider me. While I served my term, I noticed that some members provided good insite and did their jobs, but also some of these greek tended to use their positions as a resume builder and left the real work to other members.

Basically, there are several ways in which this can be handled and this example is one way it was handled on a college campus.

Interesting poll, thanks for starting it. It is great to back things up with actual numbers :D It is also great to know the community are backing our ideas and decisions with a good majority :)

Just adding my 2p:

Community Leaders should definitely decide on who is and isn't on the CAT, because simply put the CAT is there to assist the CLs, and if they're not co-operative with the CLs then why are they in the position of a CAT member?

As for the voting idea, it may be an idea to privately suggest people that you think would be good, but not have a vote as then it turns into a popularity contents.

Anyway, I hope that the CAT members work just as hard as the CLs have been doing all this time and that the forum continues to be a success.

Originally posted by Rochen
Interesting poll, thanks for starting it. It is great to back things up with actual numbers :D It is also great to know the community are backing our ideas and decisions with a good majority :)

I think once the majority of us that had an initial "pause" at the idea of a CAT, settled down and had a few brews, realized the benefits of it. Sure I hated the idea at first and voiced my opinion, but realized that the CAT team was the same as having an oversight commitee, just like any democatic government has. Funny how when you argue about a subject enough that eventually something so profound slaps you in the face and says " holy crap.....that does make sense"


@comphosting...you know...it's funny, I sense a lot of hostility out of you over all of this. Have noticed it ONLY in threads that pertain to decisions made about the forum, otherwise you have been decent..what gives? I understand we each have a topic in life that erks us to no end...me its anything to do with badmouthing soldiers and 9/11, so yours seems to be anything that deals with authoritative decision making, and a need to make the moderators look like fascists pigs (hence your poll)...read my words carefully, dont think I am taking sniper shots at you, as I am not. I am trying to find out why people still cling to the fact that the members have a right to dictate what the mods do or dont do.

Oh and I am not a comodity as you so elequently call the members here. By calling members a comodity you discount freedom. To quote from a book " I am not a number, I am a free Man."


So I will peacefully get off my soapbox and walk away. I am long winded, but know of no other way to get my point accross.

I remember a couple of years ago an mboard I was on did something simular to "CAT." I don't know if it would happen here, but the other mboard slowly came to a stop when the advisors couldn't see eye to eye on a few things. Within a year the board was gone.

Originally posted by KimmiKat
I remember a couple of years ago an mboard I was on did something simular to "CAT." I don't know if it would happen here, but the other mboard slowly came to a stop when the advisors couldn't see eye to eye on a few things. Within a year the board was gone. I think the difference here is that the CAT has no authority, so it doesn't matter whether they see eye to eye or not. The "Community Leaders" establish policy; the CAT members only discuss the issues and offer opinions.

Originally posted by JayC
I think the difference here is that the CAT has no authority, so it doesn't matter whether they see eye to eye or not. The "Community Leaders" establish policy; the CAT members only discuss the issues and offer opinions.

Not correct, the community liaisons WOULD have some authority. Quoting:

"Community Liaisons are akin to Forum Specific Moderators. As a Community Liaison, you would lead the Forum in meaningful discussion. You would close threads that needed closing. And warn members that needed warning. You would, also, be the first point of contact to assist Community Guides."

So having the power to lead discussion AND close threads does give them some authority to affect how the regular membership interacts on WHT.

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Not correct, the community liaisons WOULD have some authority. Quoting:

"Community Liaisons are akin to Forum Specific Moderators. As a Community Liaison, you would lead the Forum in meaningful discussion. You would close threads that needed closing. And warn members that needed warning. You would, also, be the first point of contact to assist Community Guides."

So having the power to lead discussion AND close threads does give them some authority to affect how the regular membership interacts on WHT.
What do Community Liaisons have to do with CATs anyway? They are two separate groups. It's the CAT being discussed here, I believe.

<edit> Someone beat me to it......

Oops. My bad, sorry. I mised the CL's and the CA's. Pardon my stupidity...

Originally posted by UmBillyCord
<edit> Someone beat me to it......

heh, thanks the Gods for the edit button and pencil erasers :D

Originally posted by akashik
Given, "The moderators should choose" is currently just shy of 60%, with the closest result being less than 24%, and the following being "I don't care" do you feel this thread is finished comphosting?

I really think you're taking this all too seriously.

What is your problem Greg? I started a poll and you take the opportunity in two threads to take shots at me. I've already explained, as it seems to be turning out, that if the members want the mods to choose, I'm perfectly fine with it. I've always respected you and your posts, but you'd think you'd have read the 3 previous times I said this exact same thing.

Some members prefer to keep their identity private, so we respect that. If they wish to reveal that they're a member of CAT (a few have done so already), then we're perfectly fine with that.

It's a matter of privacy. We won't force CATs to reveal their identity.

I understand that... let me rephrase to, I don't understand why the members would want it to be a big secret... but I understand perfectly that the mods wouldn't go against their wishes.

Interesting poll, thanks for starting it. It is great to back things up with actual numbers :D It is also great to know the community are backing our ideas and decisions with a good majority :)

In this case I couldn't agree more. Once again I really don't mind being in the minority, it's just nice to know how the community feels :).

@comphosting...you know...it's funny, I sense a lot of hostility out of you over all of this. Have noticed it ONLY in threads that pertain to decisions made about the forum, otherwise you have been decent..what gives?

I'm completely confused now... the only time I've gotten even slightly hostile was when webworkz decided that he knows better then everyone else in the world... and when Greg decided that he needed to take shots at me in two different threads. Now granted, I may have been out of line with webworkz, and if anyone feels that's the case I appologize, but I didn't start this thread to defend myself, it was to share what I thought with others. So maybe I am being hostile, but if certain members would keep to the discussion instead of being personal, that wouldn't be neccesary.

I understand we each have a topic in life that erks us to no end...me its anything to do with badmouthing soldiers and 9/11, so yours seems to be anything that deals with authoritative decision making, and a need to make the moderators look like fascists pigs (hence your poll)...

Wow... where did I once call or even imply the moderators where "fascists pigs"? I've been at this forum for 3 years now, and the only thing I've asked the mods to do was include the community in some decisions. They didn't feel that this was one of them... I did, hence my poll. It appears that the majority of voters agree with the mods in this case, which is fine by me.

read my words carefully, dont think I am taking sniper shots at you, as I am not. I am trying to find out why people still cling to the fact that the members have a right to dictate what the mods do or dont do.

Not dictate, but guide the direction. To date, this forum has the least amount of community interaction with mods and changes then any forum I've been to.

Oh and I am not a comodity as you so elequently call the members here. By calling members a comodity you discount freedom. To quote from a book " I am not a number, I am a free Man."

Entirely different discussion all together that doesn't need to start here :).

So I will peacefully get off my soapbox and walk away. I am long winded, but know of no other way to get my point accross.

You got your point across quite well... I just disagree with it.

So anyone else want to take a few shots? Let's see, so far I've been threatened with being mocked, called aggressive and angry and I lack enough charactor for my point to be valid in the CAT and I've apparently accused the mods of being facist. So again, I ask, does anyone else have a shot to take? I've done my absolute best in keeping a completely cool head, although I did de-rail for a moment earlier, I've managed to do pretty well in my opinion.
Regardless of what one of our CAT members thinks, this is a valid poll and a valid discussion. Although, in this case, most people appear to be happier with the current structure as opposed to the one I am suggesting. I'm glad to see some of the community has voted and regardless of outcome at least this way we know how the community feels.

As for those that feel personal attacks against me our neccesary: keep 'em coming, I'd be happy to ignore you.

Originally posted by comphosting
I'm glad to see some of the community has voted and regardless of outcome at least this way we know how the community feels.
Exactly! :) Nobody is going to agree on all the decisions that are made. I am just glad the majority of those who voted in this poll agree with this particular decision.