I have recently slowed down on these posts here because this forum is loosing its touch.

Im sick of the flaming. I mean most dont care, if you dont like your host get a new one, its not hard to find one. Stop complaining about your problems, i mean its just crazy.

I think this board would be better off with less flaming. I just dont know where people see a black couch to lie down in here.

This isnt therapy, get over it and move on.

Just disturbing.

Later

Joe

AMEN "Brother :)

people complain here to deter other webmasters from falling prey to a bad host (and this is soley their opinion, each person here uses the information they find to form their own opinion). that is what this place is for, not just for hosts to post here, but for webmasters to help other webmasters become aware of who the bad and good guys are out there. it helps to see that some hosts do participate here and how they handle a disgruntled client. some may be flames, but if a hosts sees the thread as a flame towards them the proper action would be to ignore it or simply post for them to PM you or e-mail you directly. someone will always flame, it's part of what goes on at bulletin boards. its the same as there will always be a client who just isn't pleased with a service, even if the service provider is putting in 150% to try to please them. it is life, and it is your choice to continue participating here or to move on. :) same as you think about the flamers, if they don't like thier webhost.. they should just move on. right?

I have been posting here for a while now and work hard at doing well .

Im sick of the flames, clients come here to flame about companies. Do you want the hosting companies to start flaming about the clients. I have many interesting stories if thats the case.

If people were mature they would work directly with there company they choose. If there not getting the response they want go to the next one, its not that hard to figure out.

I think if customers can flame hosts, then let the hosts flame the customers, because its usually the customer causing most of the problems that the hosts fix. Then when the host cant fix the mess that was caused right away, the client gets pissed.

Ive been doing this for 2 years, and its just annoying, im just sick of the stupid flames, this isnt therapy and it doesnt help webmasters at all by flaming a company. Just because there perspective is one thing doesnt mean its right. It puts a bad taste in peoples mouths and that isnt good

Joe

You Said It!;)

I Agree...

I also agree. The reason I don't post much (even though I browse a few hours a day) is because I fear that every post I make could cause someone to flame me or someone else. It's disconcerting.

It amazes me how so many hosts get slammed.

I choose not too slam my clients, because basically i go to the source of the problem, not a open forum which gets nothing done.

Why go through a middle person, forum or anything.

Go to the root and usually you can solve the problem



Got Root>>>>:scatter:

i never questioned that you don't work hard as a host. i'm not sure if you are saying that my post doesn't mean much because i have 2 posts compared to your 900+ posts? my signup date may be misleading, but i've been a visitor of webhostingtalk for a very very long time. i was invited here way back in 1999 (or early 2000, i can't really remember) when Annette emailed the hosting company i work for with information about the host we resold for. now if other webmasters hadn't "flamed" as this host(weaselboy) put it, no one would have ever known what a horror truehosting was. now sure, there maybe some really hard working hosts that aren't frauds, but that doesn't mean that when they have a dissatisfied client they shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinion. their opinion on the service is just as valid as a post from someone who has been hosted by any of the scammers (truehosting, tacid, etc.).

many people are not mature (including some hosts who decide that they don't need to act professional just because their hosting client is being unprofessional). this isn't anything new, people are going to flame alot more than they will praise because when they are pissed they have more energy to shoot off to at least settle their own feelings and maybe look to see that they are not alone. sometimes they are alone, which makes them quiet down some.

no one ever said hosts couldn't flame too, but in your own interests, i'd think you wouldn't. you'd be making yourself look very unprofessional to the hundreds of visitors that come here everyday. a host has alot more to loose from flaming than an ex-client has in other words.

<< edit.. i'm taking this part out since it really doesn't help in the convo. i've ended up almost starting some sort of flam too :o >>

what actually disturbs me is when a host from another company (not the one being targeted by the upset client) replies to an unhappy client joining in on the flame/comments. that is what i think shouldn't go on here. :rolleyes:

i think when you decide to participate in forums such as this one, you can't simply expect that everything will be one-sided and you will only benefit. You must accept that some customers that you get from the forum will use the same forum to lodge complaints.
I think the way in which a company responds to these complaints can say a lot about the professionalism of the company.

I think if customers can flame hosts, then let the hosts flame the customers

hitting back at a disgruntled customer, just shows immaturity.

identifying the nature of the clients problem and attempting to resolve it in a polite manner, will show that you are strongly committed to a high level of customer service.

having said that, i do believe that anyone who posts a complaint about a company, should be able to verify their claim to being a past or present customer. It is not fair if people try and discredit a company without being able to substantiate their claims.

there's nothing stopping hosts from flaming *bad customers
except the fact that potential future customers visit these forums
to learn the reputations of hosts..
& a host flaming a customer
whether it was the customer's fault or not
isn't a very good image to portray :

- bad grammar & nonsense

Maybe many have missed this, but this forum is not for support.

Its not for supporting others companies.

Im not saying you should slam your customers what im saying is that this should not be the place for support.

I look at a customer coming on here to slam the company they use as not taking the measures to clear up the matter.

In regards to support times. My job is to maintain server integrity, keep uptime and help my clients. My job is to fix the clients mistakes, but when a client screws something up, they should have enough respect to understand that it might take some time to repair there faults. Actually many do not.

As I said earlier if you have a problem go to your host or leave them. Slamming them here does no good at all. It causes both customer and company too loose creditability.

Joe

if you dont like your host get a new one, its not hard to find one. Stop complaining about your problems -

this is rather rude - why are sites like planetfeedback ? why does people elect goverments ? ( they can just leave the country)?
why does people complain to a doc ? ( you can just pop-in too may deadly pills and leave ur body) ?
funny what you say JBIZ718

and whether you have posted 1000 posts or 1 if you are not liking what is happening here why not take ur own medicine ? just leave and join another forum ( sincerest apologies if this sounds rude)

I fully agree with all that Dahlia has said - its nice to see some sensible guys still out here.

"if you have a problem go to your host or leave them" - JBIZ718
oh yes ! thats exactly what we want to do and what we discusss here and the way we discuss here exactly helps in that process.

Also note that many have prepaid accounts where the period of refund may have expired and one has to continue with that host for another 5 , 6 or 11 months even if one does not like -JBI- if your advice is "leave them" then please arrange for the extra $$ we will need and the extra hassles of a transfer and fresh ftps - we promise you wont be made tired or sick or whatever again in this forum.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Originally posted by JBIZ718
Im sick of the flaming. I mean most dont care, if you dont like your host get a new one, its not hard to find one. Stop complaining about your problems, i mean its just crazy.

Joe, one thing I've noticed is that hosts never seem to have a problem when people come and recommend a host. Seems sharing their views on who they think is good and their positive experiences is fine.

When someone comes and shares their opinons of a host in a negative way, it isn't flaming. It is their experience and although it isn't postive, unless it is false, it has just as much merit as a positive review.

Constant bashing is annoying, no arguements there, and is something I've (either directly or indirectly) had to deal with one all of the forums I've been at.

What you get on forums (and I've said this before), is mostly the horror stories and/or the unhappy customer's tale. Web hosting, like some other service type businesses, is a thankless job when things are going right, though the first second a server is reported, posts come on the board, "My host is down!"

Sorry Joe but I actually take offense to some of what you are saying... You've made a number of assumptions here in your various statements.

1. That customers are the ones "screwing up"
... and that sometimes happens true, but not always

and...
2. That hosts are always reasonably, helpful people who want to resolve the issue regardless.

My experience is that like customers, hosts consist of human beings all of whom use the web for a variety of reasons. Those reasons run from making a good honest business all the way through to using/abusing and "sc***ing over" customers/service providers.

You will find that as a result the feedback you get from people on these boards comes under a wide variety of positive to negative comments. These in turn run from downright libelous to constructive feedback. For the latter case, often the forum is a last port of call because the host has been totally unhelpful or failed to resolve an issue.

All of the above said you need to differentiate between what constitutes "good" negative feedback and what doesn't. I'll agree that there are a significant number of people who will cry wolf at the first sign of trouble but you've, ironically, slammed people for being so negative by being wholly negative yourself.

As a final note for you... perhaps you should consider that if you really are as "sick and tired" of all this complaining, surely, on the basis of your own philosophy, you should try to reason with everyone doing the whining and help to resolve the problem instead of flaming them yourself.

Just a thought but a pertinant one I feel.

Well, this is my view...

A lot of people are comming here now and posting negative things about hosts etc but when they are asked for proof they are with the named host, you actually never hear from them again.

How about making use of vBulletins Custom Profile Fields to store Username, Host and Domain and make them only visible to Mods and Admins.

Then, when a :uzi: starts, a mod can look at the profile and say - yeah - he/she is an actual customer of X Host.

That way, the person can still stay anon to the host if thats what they wish - but IMO if you have a problem you tell them to their face instead of hiding.

Just an Idea :)

Originally posted by JBIZ718
Im sick of the flames, clients come here to flame about companies. Do you want the hosting companies to start flaming about the clients. I have many interesting stories if thats the case.

Joe,

The customers are the ones paying. They are the ones _buying_ a service from you and this is a place for them and other customers to discuss and to investigate to see what current and past customers of that company think about its services.

I think you could compare this to a forum for i.e. Honda cars. A lot of people think that it's the greatest car ever, while others don't like the seats, or the security or anything else. Some might even think it's not that great, but good enough for that price. You simply gather information about that company and product/service and decide for yourself if this product/service is what is good for your needs.

I personally get very annoyed when someone comes here and says that X company is the worst and they don't provide any information that proves that they are or have been a customer of that company.

Just a thought! Maybe there should be in the rules that when you start a negative thread about a company, you must also include information that prove you are or have been a client of that company? Threads that do not contain that kind of information or basicly useless, just cause problems and lower the quality of this board.

Originally posted by Mr. Amazon
Just a thought! Maybe there should be in the rules that when you start a negative thread about a company, you must also include information that prove you are or have been a client of that company? Threads that do not contain that kind of information or basicly useless, just cause problems and lower the quality of this board. That's actually not a bad idea although I'd also allow for postings that point people in the right direction... i.e. links to relevant posts, etc...

I guess the problem is that what would be considered proof that you are indeed a customer. An unrepentant host could potentially disown a previous customer to try and divert their comments.

As with everything I guess there's no black and white. :confused:

I am a newbie so should probably shut up but I'm not.

First, I find the term "flame" to be misused here compared to what it has meant for 15 years. But that is beside the point.

A forum like this would be next to useless if a customer cannot complain about a host, unless you want it to be a host-only forum.

I came here to find a good host. I know that even a good host might get complaints, there are people out there who are simply out of touch with reality. They think they can get unlimited space and support for $5 a month.

There is nothing you can do for these people, but give the webmaster-readers a bit of credit. I can usually tell a whining, self-serving bozo from a customer who has tried and tried to get reasonable results for his $$, and has gone to the last resort of posting here. I suspect this is not a rare talent, so lighten up people.

I think many have missed the point of this madness.

If you got a problem justify it.

Username, website, and all the info possible. If you start flaming without that info it should be closed.

My comments should not be taken as rude and insulting. Personally I have no problems with fixing clients issues and what not.

I am just sick of the same slamming of companies with no justification, its not cool.

Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
I think many have missed the point of this madness.

If you got a problem justify it.

Username, website, and all the info possible. If you start flaming without that info it should be closed.

My comments should not be taken as rude and insulting. Personally I have no problems with fixing clients issues and what not.

I am just sick of the same slamming of companies with no justification, its not cool.

Joe

I don't really disagree with you. But, my point is, a "flame" against a company without supporting information will be disregarded by most people. There is an example in the last couple days. After repeatedly being asked to identify himself, the "flamer" seems to have disappeared. His words have zero weight with me.

It should not be necessary to "close" such a post. It speaks for itself.

But see now something bad was said about a company, with no justification.

That doesnt help the host by leaving it open, it should be thrown away

Joe

Originally posted by Mr. Amazon
Just a thought! Maybe there should be in the rules that when you start a negative thread about a company, you must also include information that prove you are or have been a client of that company? Threads that do not contain that kind of information or basicly useless, just cause problems and lower the quality of this board.

This is what I was talking about. Although I realize people see the negative threads more (since there are more), we have just actually have more problems with positive reviews being false (ratio).

To be honest, wouldn't it be great if anyone posting *any* comment, other than just their own opinion of things, either for or against, would list all of this information? Wouldn't that add to the credibility of the post? Of course.

A host recently complained that he felt one thread was unfairly posted. In order to validate the thread, the user was emailed and asked to provide information (which would be kept confidential) to show that they have an account.

User failed to provide this, and the thread was removed. While I will not do this for every thread posted about any company, I will do it for a host that requests it, as it only seems fair, and I don't think it is unreasonable.

What this means is that any post that does not have information, is completely unsubstantiated and you should accept the post for what it is, and nothing more. When reading reviews, complaints, praises, I look very closely to see if the user has provided this type of information.

Although some people might not want to post their URL, etc., on the forum, if there is a problem and we request it, but the user fails to provide the info, we may edit/remove the thread.

Like I said though, probably 90% are unsubstantiated, and this is something we might consider trying to find a solution for (without limiting members too much, as we all know we all don't want more rules).

Originally posted by JBIZ718
I am just sick of the same slamming of companies with no justification, its not cool. Personally, I don't see much "slamming" of companies without any justification. Almost without exception, it seems, people post here after attempting to contact the host in question and either because they get no response at all or because they feel the response is inappropriate.

Once in a while there's a post that is probably nothing more than someone with a grudge against a particular company trying to cause trouble, but those are far, far more rare than are posts by a legitimate user talking about a real problem.

Granted, this isn't the place to make support requests, but those posts can be taken as comments on the host's service and as such are valuable to other potential customers.

Username, website, and all the info possible. If you start flaming without that info it should be closed.You're asking to make this forum more "host-friendly" and less "consumer-friendly." At any rate, flames shouldn't be posted, no matter what -- and the forum rules clearly state that, so they don't need to be changed. But criticism or recounting of a user's experiences isn't necessarily "flaming."

Chicken, it's true lots of people exaggerate their claims while other totally make up stories to badmouth their isp or competitor. But then there are a lot more legitimate complaints from people who don't feel comfortable giving out their identities in a public forum such as this for several reasons:

- general privacy concers
- fear of retribution by the host, either by bombardment of lawyers or through other untraceable means such as attacking their websites later on
- possible loss of reputation to their business name

A couple of years back I was burned by a former host. I posted in several bbs's but never gave out my information because of the very concerns listed above.

But, as Chicken said, if the board asks the poster for substantiating proof (to be kept in confidence) and the poster fails to submit anything; then it should be considered untrue and deleted.

Just a bit of an update. That user did reply with convincing information and the thread was restored. Look, surely the posts you read aren't going to be 100% truthful nor accurate. I think that is a given.

There was a post made about site5 recently where a user warned others that they don't provide the transfer they advertise. Well, this had been covered in a previous thread (which someone referenced) , and there was more to the story. The other thread detailed the ordeal and site5 did indeed close the account (with notice) due to resources used by the account, not based on the transfer amount.

There are always two sides to the story, and sometimes each side has their own interests in mind. Sometimes people hold back (not often here heh, but sometimes) and don't present the full story as they don't want to make the host look bad either.

A forum of opinions will never be a definitive guide, nor will any web site detailing the horror stories of hosts. You have to take them for what they are, simply *one* person's advice and/or experiences. 15 similar experiences (good or bad) could be a trend that would be worth taking more seriously.

If you are searching the forums and only find one negative review, I wouldn't say that means the host sucks. It means one person didn't feel they were the right host for them, though the reasons would be worth looking at.