We have noticed some posts here about Dialtone Internet and have read with interest as we have been using them for sometime (20 months) We have quite a few servers (more than 10) with them.

We found that some of our customers couldn't view there site and there emails were being blocked from being sent. Further investigation found that just about all of Dialtones IP blocks are blacklisted (check http://spews.org/html/S323.html )

below is the usual response (from today when I tried to email one of our customers with there set up info)

<<< 550-[2] DIALTONEINTERNET, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S323
<<< 550 mail from 66.33.xx.xx rejected: administrative prohibition (host is blacklisted)

when we asked Dialtone to do something about this (over 10 days ago) we were told

unfortunately there is nothing we can do immediately

We had already decided to move all of our business from Dialtone before this so by November/December we will be free of them :D but this really is the pits.

Our original reason (and still is) for moving was due to there ancient OS used and there strange 6.2 OS with 2.4 kernel, plus they wouldn't reboot a machine for us because they said we owed money when in fact we were in advance on every invoice :mad: when I prompted them to promise this mistake would not happen again they said they could not promise that - plus there 6 month revolving contracts are just ridiculous - we have a DNS server which is a 333mhz and we are paying more for it than there new IBM servers !!! They will let you fry unless you really push them

and lots of other things which is probably mainly due to the fact they are best suited for users with 1 or 2 servers - I could go on but...

So be warned if you are going to use Dialtone look forward to angry customers as there emails bounce because Dialtones IP's are blacklisted

shorty

ive had IP's blocked before now, its annoying to have them blocked but i simply contacted the RBL and RSS with a courteous e-mail telling them the servers were incorrectly configured and apologised for the servers and they removed my servers from the list within an hour.

I can understand where they (RBL+RSS) are comming from, spammers are total idiots.

If you send a message to the RBL being abusive with legal threats they will simply leave you on the list for longer!

Looks like Dialtone simple enjoy scooping in the money from the clients instead of stopping spammers.

DI - have you got any input on this? it would be interesting to hear your stance on this?

I don't think its that easy - these ISP's/hosts are using spews database and spews ain't taking dialtone off - check http://spews.org/html/S323.html

[QUOTE]Hosting far too many spammers. Statistics show no chance of random occurrence.
Hostile top management attitude. May be due to long relationship and support of
spam kingpin Dean Westbury.

<http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=dialtoneinternet+steve&as_ugroup=news.admin.net-abuse.email>

Refuses to act, MAPS RBL nomination:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?rnum=1&selm=3A638325.EECD2FF8%40excite.com>
[QUOTE]

and having written to dialtone twice about this it appears there is not much they can do or want to do

shorty

simply read what you yourself quoted:

"Hostile top management attitude"

Its simple to get removed from these databases, it takes a good attitude and a strong hate for spam, as soon as DI do what they request they will be removed from thel list within hours !

I agree with you - we ourselves do have a strong attitude to spammers - on the basis if we have the evidence they did it we cut them off - no second chances

It's just so frustrating that Dialtone don't take it seriously - but they've lost a good chunk of business from me probably much more than they made out of this spammer

shorty

Slowly.

You have to differentiate. Are those companies which are accused of spamming sending unsolicited email from their machines at Dialtone Internet or are they simply hosted at Dialtone Internet?

While it is OK to block the IPs of machines sending spam (and that is what RBL is for), it is not OK to block thousands of servers from a whole hosting company based on something like this:

"Hosting far too many spammers. Statistics show no chance of random occurrence.
Hostile top management attitude. May be due to long relationship and support of
spam kingpin Dean Westbury."

If a spammer is hosted at DI but does not use their network for spamming, then there is nothing they can do about as they are not violating their TOS. Otherwise DI should terminate the contract with the spammers immediately of course.

Just my .02c


-- kryps

In particular, we are concerned with spam that not only originates from your network, but also that advertises sites hosted on your network.


The above is from Dialtones TOS - so you are wrong my friend - spamvertising and the actual sending, should be classed the same otherwise everyone would be providing loopholes for spammers

shorty

Are you sure this is current? I have 10 IPs with Dialtone that are in the range mentioned on the page. When I go to the www.spews.org lookup page to check the IP's, they are listed in the database.

Am I just lucky...or is this old?

Originally posted by webbcite
Are you sure this is current? I have 10 IPs with Dialtone that are in the range mentioned on the page. When I go to the www.spews.org lookup page to check the IP's, they are listed in the database.

Am I just lucky...or is this old?

Isn't it a database of blocked addresses? I assume that you wouldn't want your IPs to be listed in their database.

-joe

<<< 550-[2] DIALTONEINTERNET, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S323
<<< 550 mail from 66.33.xx.xx rejected: administrative prohibition (host is blacklisted)

this is from an email I tried to send today

shorty

Isn't it a database of blocked addresses? I assume that you wouldn't want your IPs to be listed in their database.

Your absolutely correct...I do not want to be listed in the database. What I am saying is that my IP's fall in the ranges listed on http://spews.org/html/S323.html. So I went to the site to check to see if I was being blocked...so I could go back to Dialtone and complain. My IP's were not listed..

That is all I am saying...

shorty, I am sorry you are having to deal with this...what a pain in the butt!

http://spews.org/html/S323.html.Hmmm. I just went there now, and found this:

UPDATE: Dialtone seems to have a new attitude, new Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), and
new wish to keep totally spammer free. That being the case, only the IP ranges of
the few remaining spammers & spamware vendors will remain on the SPEWS list.

Dialtone has also stated they will open more communication channels to the anti-
spam community. If you're a spammer and are reading this - you may wish to think
twice before sneaking on and causing trouble for Dialtone Internet.

Those paragraphs are now right above the one about "hosting too many spammers." So is that new? Those of you who looked earlier, was that not there when this thread started?

(I hate when people post "updates" but don't put a datestamp on them!)

Perhaps that's why webbcite's IPs aren't blocked.

Originally posted by JayC
...
So is that new? Those of you who looked earlier, was that not there when this thread started?

(I hate when people post "updates" but don't put a datestamp on them!)...
I looked at that page about 4 hours ago and I swear I didn't see that message. I also seem to remember the IP list at the very top of the page being quite a bit shorter...

You're :agree: right about the datestamp.

I got contacted off-forum by Dialtone to assure me something would be done, even though after weeks of this nothing had been, shows that this forum does have some power over lazy hosting companies - the addition to the page is new

Maybe this is how I can get my billing issues with Dialtone sorted out - or maybe I could just send them a calculator:D

So if Dialtone ever need a kick up the ass to get them moving just post here they don't seem to like it - BTW still moving from them

shorty

shorty, I feel you may have completely the wrong attitude to this.

Posting about your host publicly is usually as a "last measure"

I remember a host I joined up with and posted here publicly, it got me alot of extra stuff from the host but it also gave the host a bad attitude toward me originally, our relationship recovered, but many dont unfortunately.

You are completely within your rights to complain on here, but i strongly recommend not to until all other methods have been exhausted.

Hopefully they are resolving your issues to an acceptable level.

Only the future will tell...

maybe you mis-read - this was the last resort, we had, even before making this post, decided because of other reasons to move from this host - we had also exhausted all other means of resolving this IP matter.

If we had posted here without contacting them and giving them ample opportunity then I could agree with you as it is I don't and I would always advise someone to contact the host in the first instance, even if just out of common courtesy

We don't make a habit of posting about every problem we have with this company (this is our first in 20 months with them and only after we had decided to leave their services anyway) even though we probably should have on some, however we felt that this was serious enough to warrant this especially considering they had taken no action.

In the end it took them only a few hours to get this sorted out.

But having said that it is sad that the only way to have them take action on this was to post it publicly, I know that I am not the only user of there services who has asked them to do something about this matter.

My other remarks were tongue in cheek, hence the big grin:D as in reality there's no way I'd send them a calculator:D But seriously we posted this to get something done not to just have a go at them for the sake of it and something has been done case closed :)

shorty

I'm sure DialTone Internet will do everything they can to stop the spammers. However it's nearly impossible to stop all spammers from using their network. Any dedicated server provider who doesn't restrict their customers email acess has the potential problem for spammers to abuse their network. Considering DialTone Internet's size it doesn't surprise that they've had to deal with spamming customers.

Meaning once the spam has been sent your essentially going to get blocked at a few places. Your best bet is to stop the spammer as quickly as possible and then apologize to the place that blocked your incoming messages and assuming both parties are professional and reasonable it will be resolved.

I just dislike the general tone of the message where it was DialTone Internet's fault for having a client who spammed. Without knowing the specifics it could have been a customer who was running an old version of bind, telnetd, sendmail, and all so many more exploitable services and a spammer exploited the server to obtain access and then they went on their spamming mission.

You shouldn't necessarily judge a company based on them being on such a list but rather you should judge them based on what they do to get the situation resolved. Judging from this paragraph on the webpage I would say DialTone Internet did the right thing: UPDATE [5/SEP/01]: Dialtone seems to have a new attitude, new Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), and new wish to keep totally spammer free. That being the case, only the IP ranges of the remaining spammers & spamware vendors will remain on the SPEWS list.

You have to remember that sometimes doing the right thing takes a little while with larger companies as well because it has to go through the proper chain of management. Now with that said I wish you the best on resolving any problems you are having with DTI.

Looks like shorty beat me to posting. :)

I've been working with DialTone Internet for over two years now I guess it is and they've been great and I know they are very much anti-spamming which is why I replied. This thread surprised me from the regard that you said you exhausted all your available resources, if I have a complaint far less serious then what you mentioned they are very prompt to resolve it. If it's a decision that management has to make then you have to be patient but otherwise they are a good company and I don't believe they have ever knowingly allowed spammers to remain customers but without knowing any details I won't comment there.

cheers shorty :)

thought id have a bash anyways, first thing in the morning and I needed something to type :D just you got the brunt of it, hehe

know the feeling :)

Hmm... we have servers on DTI around those IP blocks. We've seen a 50% reduction in traffic since we've moved. I'll need to check up more but... ARGH.

Hi!

I just checked and could not find any Dialtone Internet IPs on SPEWS anymore.

Is it possible that they have been removed from SPEWS?

-- kryps

Originally posted by kryps

I just checked and could not find any Dialtone Internet IPs on SPEWS anymore.

Is it possible that they have been removed from SPEWS?


Yes, it is quite possible. SPEWS updated their info on dialtone back around when this thread was started. The link from the earliest posts now shows some info on that update:

UPDATE (5/SEP/01): Dialtone seems to have a new attitude, new Acceptable Use
Policy (AUP), and new wish to keep totally spammer free. That being the case,
only the IP ranges of the remaining spammers & spamware vendors will remain
on the SPEWS list.

from http://spews.org/html/S323.html

How do you read their IP block list?

They have two forms:
0, IP range
1, IP, hostname

I'm assuming (hoping) that the 0, range form is of 'allowed' or 'unblocked' IPs whereas the 1, IP means 'block' this 'ip'.

Another thing to realize is that spews.org is EXTREMELY slow when updating their database. I was in an IP block with Verio that was blackballed and from the time of my complaint until resolution seemed like eternity. Plus, I do not really consider spews.org to be the end-all be-all in Spam information sites. From dealing with them in the past, I think their server was hosted in the neighbor's garage. :eek: